PHT, Cadence, Foot strike...recovery and rebuilding

nkrichards wrote:Barefoot!  Boy you are asking a lot of me!  But I can't disagree.  Maybe as the weather gets better.  

One problem that I have when I work on a higher cadence in an effort to attain that mid-foot strike is that my pace speeds up and my runs are no longer at an easy pace/effort.  The PT said the best way to alleviate that problem is to do my cadence work on the treadmill.  You can't run faster than the speed it's set at and if you do maintain the goal cadence you have no choice but to shorten your stride.  He also suggested raising the elevation a bit as it makes it easier to meet the treadmill without over striding.  He said cadence work on a hill outside is also effective as the ground rises up to meet you.

Barefoot runs?  Dreadmill runs?  I like Melissa's philosophy...work on form but don't forget to keep running fun. 

Yes, that's one of the secrets of barefooting: You automatically shorten your stride and move your feet faster. Otherwise, it hurts!

The other secret? It's ridiculously fun.

(Don't do it on a treadmill, though. You need a non-smooth/soft surface.)

Have fun with the half in Eugene. Don't worry, you're not required to quack or anything to enter Hayward Field at the end.

Hope your hamstring behaves!

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:I've been having a lot of fun but I'm also VERY discouraged.

First the fun.  We just completed week 4 of the MADras Runners Challenge.  They post a route and you run or walk it any time during the week, report that you completed it, and your name goes in a hat for a gift card at a local business.  It started during COVID and is very popular.  We expanded our small group this year and I really enjoyed meeting some new folks even if I did have to run a bit slower and walk a bit.

Now the discouraging part.  My hamstring discomfort increased after Easter weekend when we made two trips to the valley.  4 hours in the car on Saturday and 6 on Sunday were not helpful I guess.  Peter (PT) said that sitting pain is normally the canary indicating that you did something to aggravate it rather than the actual cause.  I'm baffled.  I've been religious about doing my PT work 6 days a week.  I've made significant progress on cadence and foot strike.  I kept my mileage moderate and cut out speed work until Peter gave me the go ahead to add it back in cautiously.  I'm not sure what more I can do.  It's been over a week and it still hasn't settled back down.  I feel like I'm back at square one.

The frustrating part is that I can run and run well even when the hamstring is unhappy.  Maybe I just need to ignore it and enjoy running.  It's been a problem for 45 years...well before I became a runner.  I'm not going to be able to run marathons for to many more years.  Maybe expecting it to heal after ignoring it for 45 years is unreasonable.  Maybe I should just manage it and have fun running.  Ugggg...  

So...I'm signed up to run the half in Eugene on Sunday.  It finishes in the new stadium.  I'm a Beaver...definitely not a Duck but still.  I already planned to just run it as a long run and not race.  That's still the plan.  Melissa said to have fun and to be careful not to push to hard.  I have an appointment with Peter on Monday.  On Tuesday we head to a cabin on the Metolius River for a couple days.  

I'll let you know how the half goes...

I can say that raising the elevation on a treadmill does help on stride.  And it most definitely helps when you have an upcoming stress test.

Now the discouraging part.  Yes, managing your hamstring is the best way to go.  You may never live to see your hamstring happy.  But if I come to your funeral, I'll get up and say, "her hamstring is happy."  Sorta like that George Jones classic, "He Stopped Loving Her Today."  What if you carried an ice pack with you on a drive?  One of those frozen gel things.

You can't legitimately complain too much with a cadence of 164 and a stride length of 1.  Enjoy the half at the Duck blind.  Bring your duck call and see what happens.

Nice to see you're not fretting about HR.  No pain, no worries.

Hamstring is still a bit grumpy.  I have an appointment with the PT tomorrow.

It's interesting that you noted that I haven't been fretting about HR.  I guess I've been to busy tracking cadence...  I haven't been ignoring HR though.  Definitely not a lot of low HR type runs but my RHR is down a bit which is really good news.  And...my HR during the half today was 149.  That's amazingly low for a race even when you consider that I wasn't racing hard.  

Mark B wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Barefoot!  Boy you are asking a lot of me!  But I can't disagree.  Maybe as the weather gets better.  

One problem that I have when I work on a higher cadence in an effort to attain that mid-foot strike is that my pace speeds up and my runs are no longer at an easy pace/effort.  The PT said the best way to alleviate that problem is to do my cadence work on the treadmill.  You can't run faster than the speed it's set at and if you do maintain the goal cadence you have no choice but to shorten your stride.  He also suggested raising the elevation a bit as it makes it easier to meet the treadmill without over striding.  He said cadence work on a hill outside is also effective as the ground rises up to meet you.

Barefoot runs?  Dreadmill runs?  I like Melissa's philosophy...work on form but don't forget to keep running fun. 

Yes, that's one of the secrets of barefooting: You automatically shorten your stride and move your feet faster. Otherwise, it hurts!

The other secret? It's ridiculously fun.

(Don't do it on a treadmill, though. You need a non-smooth/soft surface.)

Have fun with the half in Eugene. Don't worry, you're not required to quack or anything to enter Hayward Field at the end.

Hope your hamstring behaves!

The chances of me doing a barefoot run are pretty slim.  The chances of me running on the treadmill aren't much better.  The chance of me doing a barefoot run on the treadmill is nil.  I actually might play with barefoot running when the weather improves.

More details on the hamstring after I see the PT tomorrow.  It's definitely grumpy but I've been spending a lot of time in the car and I think that adds to the problem.

***

The run this morning was awesome!  I was under strict instructions not to race it and I followed that advice.  But it was a really good training run.  I ended up finishing in 2:17:34...only 4 seconds off BQ pace.  Of course I only ran a half...not a full but all things considered I was quite pleased.  I settled into a very comfortable pace and only pushed the last couple miles.  More details later.

The awesome part was the finish.  I entered the stadium and seconds later the lead runner in the full entered the stadium.  He obviously passed me...with the second place runner in close pursuit.  The crowd was on their feet and cheering.  It was pretty cool to be there.  The funny part is the announcer was concentrating on announcing the winners and failed to announce the half finishers.  Katie missed my finish but enjoyed watching the excitement.

The other fun part was the toasted cheese sandwiches.  Katie was waiting for our toasted cheese sandwiches when the hospital called to let her know I had a heart attack in Boston.  She never got her toasted cheese sandwiches and frequently reminds me.  So today they were offering toasted cheese sandwiches to the finishers...I shared mine with her and we had a good laugh.

Heading to bed and I have a couple busy days in front of me but I'll try to post again as soon as I can.

Congrats on Eugene! I bet it was fun finishing in the flashy new venue - and racing the marathon winner to the line!

Maybe one of these years I'll head back there for a race. I set my PR there, but I've had far more blowups there than successes. It'd be nice to get a satisfying one in there. Someday!

Mark B wrote:Congrats on Eugene! I bet it was fun finishing in the flashy new venue - and racing the marathon winner to the line!

Maybe one of these years I'll head back there for a race. I set my PR there, but I've had far more blowups there than successes. It'd be nice to get a satisfying one in there. Someday!

Eugene was fun.  I wasn't super excited about finishing in the stadium when I signed up but it was pretty cool.  I can imagine how exciting it would be if I was actually a duck fan. 

***
Not sure where to start...it's been so long since I've taken time to post.

Hamstring
Still hanging around and being annoying.  But the PT did admit that it sounds like sitting is at least as much if not more of the problem than the running.  He increased the difficulty of my PT exercises but cut the days down from 6/week to 4.  It's a bit more manageable.  We're working on some sitting changes.  I got a cushion with cut outs for the sit bones.  It was hard to find as most are designed to relieve pressure on the tailbone.  I also realized that it is worse when I'm a passenger vs the driver.  I realized I sit differently.  Going to have to work on making the appropriate adjustments.  So...while there is still no rhyme or reason and it's frustrating at times, I do feel like I'm making some progress.  And more importantly the speed work and added mileage hasn't make it worse.

Running Form
I do think I made some slight changes and I've been able to make them feel more normal.  But I can still see heel wear especially on the outside left heel so it's not perfect yet.  Cadence improvement has been small but it's there.  I'll keep working on it.

Heart rate
I haven't really been concentrating on low HR runs but oddly enough they occasionally pop up.  I've realized that running with Janice is helpful as it forces me to slow down and that's when I usually see a lower HR...but I've been seeing them occasionally on solo runs.  Not as slow as Mark and Doug but slow for me.

And even more encouraging is that I'm seeing a lower resting HR on a regular basis.  I still have he occasional day when it's slightly high but the average is trending lower.

I know I allow life stress to affect me more than I should.  It shows up in my resting HR and my HR when I run on a day I know I'm stressing.  Once again I need to work on that.

Hmm...I have a lot of work to do on a lot of things...

***
We spent a couple days in a historic cabin at House on Metolius after I ran the half in Eugene.  It was so much fun and just the break that Marty and I needed.  We had great weather for hiking one day and got in 15 miles along the river.  I love that area.  My family didn't travel much but that was the one area that I remember going to as a kid.

I'm enjoying running.  Family is well.  Farming is stressful.  Life is good.

That sounds very nice, especially the getaway. I've visited the Metolius area, and its wonderful.

Your hamstring issue sounds a LOT like a problem I had a number of years ago that we thought was a piriformis issue but, in fact, wasn't.

Have your PT check your gemelli muscles deep inside your posterior pelvic area. My PT started checking that area and had to just about peel me off the ceiling when she palpated one of those little muscles that had been in full spasm for goodness knows how long. She was able to resolve the matter using passive release and more core work on the glute med. It fixed it pretty quickly.

The thing that got her attention was that it hurt to sit. So when you mentioned your sitting issues, I sat up and took notice.  

Worth a check, anyway!

Mark B wrote:That sounds very nice, especially the getaway. I've visited the Metolius area, and its wonderful.

Your hamstring issue sounds a LOT like a problem I had a number of years ago that we thought was a piriformis issue but, in fact, wasn't.

Have your PT check your gemelli muscles deep inside your posterior pelvic area. My PT started checking that area and had to just about peel me off the ceiling when she palpated one of those little muscles that had been in full spasm for goodness knows how long. She was able to resolve the matter using passive release and more core work on the glute med. It fixed it pretty quickly.

The thing that got her attention was that it hurt to sit. So when you mentioned your sitting issues, I sat up and took notice.  

Worth a check, anyway!

Thanks Mark.  I'll mention that to my PT at my next appointment.  There are days when I think he's got it figured out and then days when I'm not so sure...

***
So...I have a new experience to add to my top 10 running experiences...and it's pretty close to the top!

Janice, age 75 and legally blind, and Norma, my age but with lung issues, signed up to run the Happy Girls 10K in Bend.  After signing up they realized that 2-3 miles of the run was on single track trail.  Janice can't see well enough to run on trails.  Norma caught a cold and dropped to the 5K...plus she's slower than Janice and Janice didn't want to have to wait for her.    Anyway...I wasn't planning to run but offered to sign up and guide Janice safely through the tough spots.  I had so much fun!!!

We normally run on roads or paved trails and Janice does pretty well.  I run to her right, slightly in front of her.  Other than warning her of curbs or big holes etc she does well.  If you didn't know it you wouldn't realize she was vision impaired.  (She has a disease that has progressed since childhood resulting in severe tunnel vision.)  We started out that way for the first half mile and then we entered the trail system.  As the trail narrowed it became obvious that I was going to have to run directly in front of Janice and give her pretty detailed information about the trail.  It took me a few minutes to understand how to best provide Janice with the information she needed.  I got better as the run progressed.  She wears a sign on her back indicating that she is vision impaired and once the other runners realized that I was guiding her they were very cooperative.  It was pretty intense and difficult (mentally) for both of us.  Our first few miles were pretty slow...14+ pace.  When we popped out of the trail system and got back on the paved trails she took off, dropping into her usual 11+ paces.  It was crowded and I had to warn her of kids, dogs, curbs etc that are out of her limited vision range but she flew.

So results...  1:18:20 @12:37.  Janice won her age group...and the two age groups below her as well.  The results included an age grade and with that information I figured out that Janice's age graded finish was 8th of 199.  Not bad considering she's blind!!!

I often jokingly mention that when I grow up I want to be just like Janice.  She hikes and backpacks with her husband and friends.  She travels.  She's an active volunteer in the community.  She is a pretty special friend.  I've known the family for years.  Her husband was a math teacher and wrestling coach at the high school and our kids are similar ages so I knew them as our kids were growing up.  I didn't get to know Janice until around 2008 when they started the MAC Dash.  She wanted to learn to swim so she could do the swim and run portions of the triathlon.  We ended up in a swim class together and have been training together ever since.

As I mentioned, she is a very special friend.  It was so rewarding to help her accomplish her goals on Saturday.

That was a good story, Nancy.  thanks for that.

ounce wrote:That was a good story, Nancy.  thanks for that.

Happy to share.  It was a fun one.

And now for the next chapter.  Janice insisted we get together for a short and slow group run on Friday.  It didn't fit my schedule but I adjusted to make it work.  It was her husband, Chuck's, birthday so I assumed we were celebrating.  To my surprise a couple I hadn't met showed up.  Background...Libby (age 82) lives a couple miles from my house on my usual running route.  She was the owner of the dog that was responsible for my first dog bite.     It was a new dog and she took full responsibility, eventually giving up the dog.  I knew her before that but we became friends after the incident.  She walks and bikes often.  Oddly enough she is good friends with Janice.  She had a stroke at Christmas time and recently was able to return to her home.  So...her daughter and son-in-law flew down from Alaska to visit and help with chores.  They were the couple that joined us on our group run.  Turns out she was a freshman on the first Cross Country team that Janice coached...while Libby babysat Janice's first child.  We told stories and laughed through our very slow run and then picked up Libby to join us for coffee and treats.  Really fun morning.

I've got an interesting prequel to share but I'm running short of time today.

Running is going well.  Hamstring seems a bit better the last few days...hope I don't jinx it...

Life is good.

Thanks for sharing those stories, Nancy. There's something really rewarding about helping somebody achieve their goals. Have you ever given any thought to volunteering as a pacer? I have a few other friends who do it, and they seem to love it.

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:That was a good story, Nancy.  thanks for that.

Happy to share.  It was a fun one.

And now for the next chapter.  Janice insisted we get together for a short and slow group run on Friday.  It didn't fit my schedule but I adjusted to make it work.  It was her husband, Chuck's, birthday so I assumed we were celebrating.  To my surprise a couple I hadn't met showed up.  Background...Libby (age 82) lives a couple miles from my house on my usual running route.  She was the owner of the dog that was responsible for my first dog bite.     It was a new dog and she took full responsibility, eventually giving up the dog.  I knew her before that but we became friends after the incident.  She walks and bikes often.  Oddly enough she is good friends with Janice.  She had a stroke at Christmas time and recently was able to return to her home.  So...her daughter and son-in-law flew down from Alaska to visit and help with chores.  They were the couple that joined us on our group run.  Turns out she was a freshman on the first Cross Country team that Janice coached...while Libby babysat Janice's first child.  We told stories and laughed through our very slow run and then picked up Libby to join us for coffee and treats.  Really fun morning.

I've got an interesting prequel to share but I'm running short of time today.

Running is going well.  Hamstring seems a bit better the last few days...hope I don't jinx it...

Life is good.

And you're the pup of the bunch!

As I do my errands, I see many people older than me.  I notice their gait, posture, and pace.  I often want to ask them, "So, what happened, when, and what would you change so that your gait, posture, and pace is better or back to pre-event baseline?"  I've seen where Hal has slowed considerably years ago, as he readily admits.  He turns 91 in June.  It's a curiosity of mine, not a worry.  I just do what I can and have 'out there' goals.

So, Nancy, how many VW's are you going to birth during hay baling season, this year?

Cross training.     So much fun!  I found some core muscles that I haven't used in a while.  

Ha!  That's cool...and really cool, considering the clothes you're wearing.  

I'd like to go skydiving, once.

ounce wrote:Ha!  That's cool...and really cool, considering the clothes you're wearing.  

I'd like to go skydiving, once.

Yes, it was cool...and raining hard not long before we started.  It rained lightly during the climb on the training tree but cleared up nicely for the big tree.

I've been skydiving, once.  And yes, you should.

I've also been bungee jumping, once.

Skydiving and bungee jumping are much less physically demanding than tree climbing. 

***

Easy 4 this morning.  

SOS run in the morning and it's a tough one.  3-2-1  1 mi warmup, 3 miles @HMP, 1 mi rest, 2 miles @ HMP-10 seconds, 1/2 mi rest, 1 mi @10K pace, 1 mi cooldown.  Wish me luck.  I'm going to have to work to hit those paces!

Ultreya...


Edited to add...I hit my paces well on Wednesday.

• 3 mi @ HMP goal pace 9:44 actual 9:41
  
• 2 mi @ HMP-10 goal pace 9:34 actual 9:31
  
• 1 mi @ 10K goal pace 9:14-9:24 actual 9:16
  

 
Tough run and I had to dig deep but quite pleased.

Janice wanted to run a 15K on Thursday.  I had an easy 8 on my schedule for Friday but moving it to Thursday would put my two SOS runs for the week on back to back days.  With Melissa's blessing I committed to run with Janice.  Her goal was a 12:00 pace.  Nailan joined us for her longest run ever.  They started very slow but with some encouragement we finished well and snuck in right at a 12:00 pace.

I'm looking forward to an easy 4 today and again tomorrow.  Tapering slightly in preparation for a 10K on the 18th.  It will be my first real race in a long time.  I'm nervous but looking forward to it.  Still making PT a priority and the hamstring is holding up well but it's still there.  Nailan has signed up to run (her first race ever!!) so she'll run with Janice, freeing me up to race without worrying about how Janice is doing.  Chuck (Janice's husband) is also running...not sure of his pace goals.  Not sure of my goals for the race.  Last year I ran a 10K on Father's Day weekend in 57:51 (@9:17)  I guess that's a good goal to start with.  Not sure if/how the hamstring work has affected my fitness.  I guess we'll see.  Oh...there is a very short but challenging hill in the last mile of this course. 

Easy 4 and PT today...along with paying bills and grocery shopping.

Gratz on your 3-2-1 run!  With regard to the target paces for it, do you think Melissa is pushing you a bit or a bunch?  And does Freddie's HR indicate you're being pushed a bit or a bunch?

I will predict a 9:04 pace for Saturday's 10K.  Your hamstring will not be a problem during the race.  Afterwards...depends on how much you sit.

Regardless, good luck!  Hope the weather cooperates.

ounce wrote:Gratz on your 3-2-1 run!  With regard to the target paces for it, do you think Melissa is pushing you a bit or a bunch?  And does Freddie's HR indicate you're being pushed a bit or a bunch?

I will predict a 9:04 pace for Saturday's 10K.  Your hamstring will not be a problem during the race.  Afterwards...depends on how much you sit.

Regardless, good luck!  Hope the weather cooperates.

Your confidence is much appreciated Doug but I don't think I've got 9:04 in me for a 5K let alone a 10K.  Due to the hamstring issues my mileage is down slightly compared to last year and I missed a lot of speedwork.  And the course is more difficult.  I don't expect the hamstring to hamper me during the race...it's afterwards that has me concerned.  I plan to make a point to roll and keep it as loose as possible over the weekend and avoid sitting as much as possible.

Prediction is for low 50's with 60+% humidity and a slight chance of rain.  That's warmer than I like especially with the humidity.  Winds of 5 mph should help but the majority of the race is in the canyon so it may be wind protected.  Not perfect conditions but not bad enough to blame a poor result on.  I know it sounds like perfect conditions to you!

So my A goal would be to match my 9:17 pace from last year.  I would be quite happy with anything even close to that based on training and course.  I'll be disappointed if I can't keep it under 9:30...very disappointed.  We'll see what happens.

Nice 4x800 yesterday.  Average pace 9:10.  Today was a rest day but I did take a few minutes to stretch and roll the hamstring.  Tomorrow is an easy shakeout run and then I'm off to the races on Saturday.   

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:Gratz on your 3-2-1 run!  With regard to the target paces for it, do you think Melissa is pushing you a bit or a bunch?  And does Freddie's HR indicate you're being pushed a bit or a bunch?

I will predict a 9:04 pace for Saturday's 10K.  Your hamstring will not be a problem during the race.  Afterwards...depends on how much you sit.

Regardless, good luck!  Hope the weather cooperates.

Your confidence is much appreciated Doug but I don't think I've got 9:04 in me for a 5K let alone a 10K.  Due to the hamstring issues my mileage is down slightly compared to last year and I missed a lot of speedwork.  And the course is more difficult.  I don't expect the hamstring to hamper me during the race...it's afterwards that has me concerned.  I plan to make a point to roll and keep it as loose as possible over the weekend and avoid sitting as much as possible.

Prediction is for low 50's with 60+% humidity and a slight chance of rain.  That's warmer than I like especially with the humidity.  Winds of 5 mph should help but the majority of the race is in the canyon so it may be wind protected.  Not perfect conditions but not bad enough to blame a poor result on.  I know it sounds like perfect conditions to you!

So my A goal would be to match my 9:17 pace from last year.  I would be quite happy with anything even close to that based on training and course.  I'll be disappointed if I can't keep it under 9:30...very disappointed.  We'll see what happens.

Nice 4x800 yesterday.  Average pace 9:10.  Today was a rest day but I did take a few minutes to stretch and roll the hamstring.  Tomorrow is an easy shakeout run and then I'm off to the races on Saturday.   

Well we were both right Doug.

Official finish 55:41.9 @ 8:58
Overall 42/145
Female 20/128
AG 2/6

But it was a short course...per Garmin...
6.03 @ 9:15 HR 160/174 Cad 163 SL 1.05

1. 9:34
   
2. 9:18
   
3. 9:13
   
4. 9:08
   
5. 9:05
   
6. 9:11
   

The 9:15 pace is more accurate and I'm quite pleased with that.  I was disappointed with that last mile but it did contain the hill...short but steep...and the first and last half mile of the race we were forced onto the sidewalk which made passing/pacing difficult to say the least.  I didn't have anything left in the tank but didn't die either.

I warmed up the hamstring well. I rolled before I left home.  My warmup included leg swings then a mile with skips, high knees, butt kicks and then 2 x :30 strides.  It was there during the race but I don't think it affected my run.  My cadence was slightly lower...and SL slightly higher than I had hoped.  It tightened up before I could break away for my cool down mile but loosened up during the run.  It's tight now...I'll stretch and roll this afternoon and through the weekend as needed.

I've got another local 10K on the 4th.  Taking it easy for a couple days and postponing my normal Tuesday speed work till Wednesday or Thursday depending on how I feel.  That session is 9 miles w/2x3 mi at a HM progression pace.  It will be a tough one.  My long run will be 10.  I don't have my marching orders for the next week.

I do need to visit Mom one day this week which means time sitting in the car but the cushion I got is helping and I'll make sure I keep up on my PT and rolling etc.

I was pretty nervous about this race.  While I would have liked to be able to pull off a faster last mile I'm not surprised.  Happy with the results.

Exhausted...wish I was better at napping.  And I need to make rolling a priority!

nkrichards wrote:

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:Gratz on your 3-2-1 run!  With regard to the target paces for it, do you think Melissa is pushing you a bit or a bunch?  And does Freddie's HR indicate you're being pushed a bit or a bunch?

I will predict a 9:04 pace for Saturday's 10K.  Your hamstring will not be a problem during the race.  Afterwards...depends on how much you sit.

Regardless, good luck!  Hope the weather cooperates.

Your confidence is much appreciated Doug but I don't think I've got 9:04 in me for a 5K let alone a 10K.  Due to the hamstring issues my mileage is down slightly compared to last year and I missed a lot of speedwork.  And the course is more difficult.  I don't expect the hamstring to hamper me during the race...it's afterwards that has me concerned.  I plan to make a point to roll and keep it as loose as possible over the weekend and avoid sitting as much as possible.

Prediction is for low 50's with 60+% humidity and a slight chance of rain.  That's warmer than I like especially with the humidity.  Winds of 5 mph should help but the majority of the race is in the canyon so it may be wind protected.  Not perfect conditions but not bad enough to blame a poor result on.  I know it sounds like perfect conditions to you!

So my A goal would be to match my 9:17 pace from last year.  I would be quite happy with anything even close to that based on training and course.  I'll be disappointed if I can't keep it under 9:30...very disappointed.  We'll see what happens.

Nice 4x800 yesterday.  Average pace 9:10.  Today was a rest day but I did take a few minutes to stretch and roll the hamstring.  Tomorrow is an easy shakeout run and then I'm off to the races on Saturday.   

Well we were both right Doug.

Official finish 55:41.9 @ 8:58
Overall 42/145
Female 20/128
AG 2/6

But it was a short course...per Garmin...
6.03 @ 9:15 HR 160/174 Cad 163 SL 1.05

1. 9:34
   
2. 9:18
   
3. 9:13
   
4. 9:08
   
5. 9:05
   
6. 9:11
   

The 9:15 pace is more accurate and I'm quite pleased with that.  I was disappointed with that last mile but it did contain the hill...short but steep...and the first and last half mile of the race we were forced onto the sidewalk which made passing/pacing difficult to say the least.  I didn't have anything left in the tank but didn't die either.

I warmed up the hamstring well. I rolled before I left home.  My warmup included leg swings then a mile with skips, high knees, butt kicks and then 2 x :30 strides.  It was there during the race but I don't think it affected my run.  My cadence was slightly lower...and SL slightly higher than I had hoped.  It tightened up before I could break away for my cool down mile but loosened up during the run.  It's tight now...I'll stretch and roll this afternoon and through the weekend as needed.

I've got another local 10K on the 4th.  Taking it easy for a couple days and postponing my normal Tuesday speed work till Wednesday or Thursday depending on how I feel.  That session is 9 miles w/2x3 mi at a HM progression pace.  It will be a tough one.  My long run will be 10.  I don't have my marching orders for the next week.

I do need to visit Mom one day this week which means time sitting in the car but the cushion I got is helping and I'll make sure I keep up on my PT and rolling etc.

I was pretty nervous about this race.  While I would have liked to be able to pull off a faster last mile I'm not surprised.  Happy with the results.

Exhausted...wish I was better at napping.  And I need to make rolling a priority!

Good job, Nancy.  We both got what we thought would happen.  Take solace in the fact that your hamstring malady happened over years.  You may just have to live with an excruciatingly slow recovery on the scale that it will always be there, in some form, for as long as you run.

I would suspect that Melissa won't cut any corners before your race on the 4th.

Like racing, naps take practice.

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:Gratz on your 3-2-1 run!  With regard to the target paces for it, do you think Melissa is pushing you a bit or a bunch?  And does Freddie's HR indicate you're being pushed a bit or a bunch?

I will predict a 9:04 pace for Saturday's 10K.  Your hamstring will not be a problem during the race.  Afterwards...depends on how much you sit.

Regardless, good luck!  Hope the weather cooperates.

Your confidence is much appreciated Doug but I don't think I've got 9:04 in me for a 5K let alone a 10K.  Due to the hamstring issues my mileage is down slightly compared to last year and I missed a lot of speedwork.  And the course is more difficult.  I don't expect the hamstring to hamper me during the race...it's afterwards that has me concerned.  I plan to make a point to roll and keep it as loose as possible over the weekend and avoid sitting as much as possible.

Prediction is for low 50's with 60+% humidity and a slight chance of rain.  That's warmer than I like especially with the humidity.  Winds of 5 mph should help but the majority of the race is in the canyon so it may be wind protected.  Not perfect conditions but not bad enough to blame a poor result on.  I know it sounds like perfect conditions to you!

So my A goal would be to match my 9:17 pace from last year.  I would be quite happy with anything even close to that based on training and course.  I'll be disappointed if I can't keep it under 9:30...very disappointed.  We'll see what happens.

Nice 4x800 yesterday.  Average pace 9:10.  Today was a rest day but I did take a few minutes to stretch and roll the hamstring.  Tomorrow is an easy shakeout run and then I'm off to the races on Saturday.   

Well we were both right Doug.

Official finish 55:41.9 @ 8:58
Overall 42/145
Female 20/128
AG 2/6

But it was a short course...per Garmin...
6.03 @ 9:15 HR 160/174 Cad 163 SL 1.05

1. 9:34
   
2. 9:18
   
3. 9:13
   
4. 9:08
   
5. 9:05
   
6. 9:11
   

The 9:15 pace is more accurate and I'm quite pleased with that.  I was disappointed with that last mile but it did contain the hill...short but steep...and the first and last half mile of the race we were forced onto the sidewalk which made passing/pacing difficult to say the least.  I didn't have anything left in the tank but didn't die either.

I warmed up the hamstring well. I rolled before I left home.  My warmup included leg swings then a mile with skips, high knees, butt kicks and then 2 x :30 strides.  It was there during the race but I don't think it affected my run.  My cadence was slightly lower...and SL slightly higher than I had hoped.  It tightened up before I could break away for my cool down mile but loosened up during the run.  It's tight now...I'll stretch and roll this afternoon and through the weekend as needed.

I've got another local 10K on the 4th.  Taking it easy for a couple days and postponing my normal Tuesday speed work till Wednesday or Thursday depending on how I feel.  That session is 9 miles w/2x3 mi at a HM progression pace.  It will be a tough one.  My long run will be 10.  I don't have my marching orders for the next week.

I do need to visit Mom one day this week which means time sitting in the car but the cushion I got is helping and I'll make sure I keep up on my PT and rolling etc.

I was pretty nervous about this race.  While I would have liked to be able to pull off a faster last mile I'm not surprised.  Happy with the results.

Exhausted...wish I was better at napping.  And I need to make rolling a priority!

Good job, Nancy.  We both got what we thought would happen.  Take solace in the fact that your hamstring malady happened over years.  You may just have to live with an excruciatingly slow recovery on the scale that it will always be there, in some form, for as long as you run.

I would suspect that Melissa won't cut any corners before your race on the 4th.

Like racing, naps take practice.

Nap was not nearly as successful as the run...

Yes, the hamstring is taking a loooooong time to heal but I guess I shouldn't be surprised based on the fact that I ignored it for 40 years.  I'm able to continue to run and will do so as long as I'm able.  The PT does take time but I'm able to squeeze it in and will do so as long as I see some progress.

Ultreya...

I agree with you about the hamstring.  Might even never heal fully.


Once you work your nap out, you'll love it.  Keep at it.

ounce wrote:I agree with you about the hamstring.  Might even never heal fully.


Once you work your nap out, you'll love it.  Keep at it.

Not sure I have the patience to learn to nap...the hamstring PT maybe.  Napping probably not.  And I think you're right...it may never fully heal.  If I can learn how to keep it in check and calm it down when it flairs up maybe that's all I can hope for.

***
On Wednesday I had a 2 x 3 mile, run on my schedule.  But it was a progression run.  Goal paces HMP+10, HMP, HMP-10.  I knew I couldn't hit the paces Melissa recommended so I mentioned it to her...she had started with the incorrect HMP.  Whew.  Even the correct paces were challenging.  So in answer to your question, Yes, Melissa is pushing me but also reminding me when I need to keep my paces in check. One thing that I think I've learned from Melissa is when to let Freddie out of the closet and when to keep him locked away.  Running hard on my SOS runs and running more makes it much easier to keep my paces in check on the assigned easy days as I'm tired.  

We've been a bit cautious with the speed work as the hamstring heals but it appears that sitting is the biggest issue.  Rolling is helping to keep it in check.  I see progress with the occasional setback but progress.  Getting busy on the farm which means time in the tractor.  We're trying to keep my tractor time to a minimum but there are/will be days when I do need to help.  We'll see how it goes.

You also mentioned HR.  It's interesting.  I noticed the other day that my RHR seemed to be a bit lower on average the last couple months.  Then I checked my stats and it's actually still averaging 48 so if it's down it's not down enough to bring the yearly or monthly average down.  Wishful thinking I guess.  Similar results when I look at average max HR. Garmin Connect doesn't track average HR during workouts so I don't have any hard data.  I do think that I'm seeing lower HR averages during training...not low compared to you and Mark...but low for me.  But maybe that's wishful thinking as well.

We're in for some warm weather.  97 by Monday then dropping back into the low/mid 80s going forward.  I'm not acclimated yet.  Glad I got my 10 miler out of the way this morning and only have an easy 4 on the schedule for tomorrow.

Ultreya...

Hi! Great job on the races, and for nursing that twitchy hamstring. 

Doug is right - napping is an art - but you tend to strike me as a rolling stone that gathers no moss, so it might be a challenge for you. 

I think Melissa is a genius in figuring out how to use Freddy in the right dosages to keep you happy through the slower runs. Keep it up!

Good luck on today's race, Nancy.

Oh, when you were baling hay, did you create any Beetles?

ounce wrote:Good luck on today's race, Nancy.

Oh, when you were baling hay, did you create any Beetles?

No Beetles! 

Thanks Doug.  I did have a good race.

6.14 miles @ 9:13 56:40  and perfect pacing.

1. 9:22
   
2. 9:17
   
3. 9:13
   
4. 9:19 water stop
   
5. 9:14
   
6. 9:00
   
7. @ 8:26
   

First 4 miles are downhill but on gravel and took some concentration.  Last two miles are on pavement but has some elevation gain.  Last year I slowed a bit especially in mile 5.  Slightly faster than last year (57:14 @ 9:18 in 2021)  It was a bit cooler so I can't take all the credit. 

Anyway...it was a good race and a fun morning.  Mario broke the course record finishing in 32:01 after getting bit by a dog on the last turn. 
The best part was catching up with friends.  It's a fun community event.

***
Hamstring update.
I had my PT appointment on Tuesday.  I've graduated.  We decided that I'm managing the issue pretty well.  It's not gone but it's improving even if there are some setbacks.  It may never completely go away but I'm able to do what I want to more comfortably than last year.  So...I'm going to cut back on the hamstring specific exercises from 4 days to 2 days per week.  I'm going to add in a couple days of total body strength and core work on those two days.  I'm going to continue to stretch and roll daily as needed.  No more appointments scheduled with Peter but he said to call for an appointment if I thought it was necessary.  AND I've got an appointment with a sports massage therapist that works with Peter.  We're going to see how that goes and if it seems to help try I'll to get in once a month.

***
I got to visit Dr B yesterday.
It was my annual visit and he gave me a clean bill of health.  Blood work all looks good.  I had a couple questions/concerns but didn't feel they were heart related and he agreed but said to contact him if I became more concerned.  

We also talked about supplements.  I started taking supplements during COVID.  D3, Zinc, Quercetin, Iron, Emergen-C.  He said he wasn't concerned about me taking any of them but did mention that there is little proof that they actually help.  He did mention that there is some research that indicated that Vitamin C may actually inhibit training gains due to the anti-oxidant affect.  My blood work showed that my D and Iron levels were slightly low so that's part of the reason I started the supplements.  Those numbers did increase when I tested in June.  But I'm not sure I want to continue to take them.  I've never been a big fan of taking supplements.  I may even drop the fish oil that I've been on for years.  What's the point of they aren't helping...  I am a bit undecided about the D and the iron though.  

***
Struggling a bit to recover from the race.  I don't think that driving the the appointments helped.  Yesterday was a very long day.  I wasn't home till 7:30.
I've been keeping my runs at a very easy effort.  I have 12 on my schedule for tomorrow.  Hopefully I'll feel a bit more energetic.

Boy am I having trouble keeping this post updated.  Sorry.

Here are the highlights.

• Several of my easy day runs have been coming in with average HR below 140.  For me that's a nice low HR.  4.6 @12:20 HR 134, 6 @11:49 HR 138, 7.1 @11:47 HR 133, 5 @11:42 HR 137
  
• My 10 mile negative split run HR was awesome on Friday!!!  10 @11:09 HR 140
  
• I'm realizing that I need to concentrate to maintain the cadence/mid-foot strike improvements I achieved.  They aren't natural yet.
  
• I'm now doing total body strength/core workouts twice a week.  Also continuing with the PT specific work twice a week.  Rolling most days as well.
  

And here is the good news...
The hamstring is feeling much better.  I won't say it's 100% but it's so much better than it's been the last year!  I had my first ever sports massage on Wednesday.  Not sure why they call it a massage.  It was nothing like any massage I've ever had before.  It was a medical treatment!  He got in deep. 
He warned me that it might be tender, swollen and bruised and advised me to ease back into running and avoid sitting as much as possible for a couple days.  It was tender the first evening but felt fine the next morning except the discomfort that I learned to live with was mostly missing.  I really liked Mike.  He's off working at Worlds in Eugene...Melissa commented that he must be good if he's working at Worlds.  The plan is to schedule a maintenance appointment about once a month as needed through the marathon.  I don't want to just ignore it now that it finally seems to be significantly better.  I'll keep up with my PT, rolling, form changes etc.  Still cautious but so much more optimistic.

***
More news.

• I'm taking a few days off to play with Katie in the Olympic Peninsula in mid-August
  
• I signed up for the Half Boring on Sept 11th and will run it as a training event.  It's on a multi-use trail near my Mom's house.
  
• I signed up for the Rogue Half Marathon on Oct 15th.  It will be a test half.  The logistics and course are really similar to CIM.  Long drive to the race, shuttle to the start, net downhill but a few rollers and a bit of elevation during the last 3 miles.  Should be a good test.
  
• We're getting busy on the farm.
  
• It's getting hot.
  
• My Mom's health is deteriorating a bit but it's slow and she's managing.  I am trying to visit more and accompany her to some of her appointments.
  
• I'm planning a trip to Australia.  We're scheduled to fly out on Dec 7th just a couple days after my marathon.  My host Mum just moved into a care facility and we want to get back to see her while she can still enjoy our visit.
  
• My good friend, Meryl, lost her husband last week.  Meryl is my Australian friend who is currently living in Dallas as her husband was American.  I contacted her to ask if her Mom was well enough for a visit only to learn that her husband had just passed.  It's tough when it's our generation instead of our parents generation.  The news hit me pretty hard.  It puts life/priorities in a whole new light.
  

And life goes on...let's make the best of the time we have.

So Mike has good thumbs, eh?

I'm very glad your hamstring is progressing.  Maybe the thumbs can permanently keep you from getting (dare I say it) hamstrung.  Just keep it up the regularity.

Life changes us by its events and how we handle it.  The arm's length people we know get arm's length treatment.  Really close people get really close treatment and those take longer to process, but it does process.  We use past deaths as a guide for how we will process future ones.  I'm working on just being present for the family and keeping my mouth shut.  Seems like that works for the situations I find myself.  I've been asked to share my memories or stories at a memorial service.  I ask how long will I have to speak, then practice in the days prior to get it within or near the time allotted.  Those in the family expect me to be myself.  So, I am.  After one this year, I asked the pastor if I was too funny.  The pastor said, "People want to laugh to break the tension.  You gave them that opportunity."  He said I was just fine.  I wasn't too funny and the pastor validated what I did.  It wasn't all humor.  I was serious broken up by some levity.  It was a very difficult talk to give and my practicing made it easier.

Anywho, on supplements.  First let me say that doctors follow the Standard of Care by their specialty.  It's how doctors avoid getting seriously sued.  So, if Dr. B says they don't do much, that just means supplements don't fall under Standard of Care.  Most doctors don't have time to read journals or articles about supplement X.

I personally take 256 mg pure melatonin, 1,000 Vit C b.i.d, 10,000 IU D3 6 days a week, 42 mg 5% Iodine, 1,400 mg DHA, and 2 teaspoons Potassium Citrate in water each day.  I've been taking all of that for at least 4 years, the iodine about 10 years.  I'm not toxic on any of them and there is no toxic amount of melatonin.  I guess to each their own.

So your social running calendar is all set for the rest of the year.  Good luck with the execution.