Term Limits?

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Well, I lost the post that I started, but I second what Nancy said about a sports cardiologist.  That is who I see here in Atlanta - cardiologist who sees many runners and triathletes.  He made me feel much better that my slightly elevated blood pressure and heart murmur (valve thing) were non issues.  It turns out that my BP issues are most likely due to hormonal changes with menopause and not a concern from ECGs, etc.  

Anyway, you keep scaring me with comments like running with chest pain - ahhhh.  I know you're taking this all seriously so I'm trying not to worry.

Here's one for you though cause it reminded me of you.  At around mile 31ish on Saturday, I ran through the Brushy Mtn Tunnel which is a large concrete railroad tunnel on the Silver Comet where we did our ultra.  When I exited the tunnel, the trail actually starts a slight descent after having climbed at a 1-2% grade for the last 10 miles, and weirdly, I suddenly felt dizzy and like I was in a "fog" almost like I would pass out for a second.  Kind of vertigo like.  I remembered something you wrote a long time ago about some similar experience, so I took a hit of my Base salt and voila, I felt fine and was able to pick the pace back up and finish the distance.  Thanks for whatever prior experience you had whether the same or different, it helped me remember and I finished strong.

Take care and keep us posted.  I might not post as much, but I am indeed reading.

Michele, you and Nancy have enough stuff to worry about without picking me up, too. People will begin to wonder. People will begin to talk.

Yes, I am taking it seriously. And I know to make light of it with y'all, so y'all feel comfortable. And information helps y'all feel comfortable, too. Drowning y'all in it is like a blanket. Sometimes a pacifier.

One thing about Troponin. It is THE blood test to diagnose a MI. However, if a person has, or is in, a stressful medical situation (not rush hour traffic) like a stroke, then an elevated Troponin may not mean a MI has occurred, unless there are chest pains, too. But that's part of the workup they do to rule out stuff.

Miche1e, I am glad you remembered about my use of sugar or something to get you out of the fog. It's amazing how much clarity you get.
You also, once, remembered about my using a dry cleaning bag for rain protection and/or warmth, instead of a trash bag.

I'll be fine. I appreciate the concern, but time to move on. I'll figure out an answer.

Nancy, concerning me at the gym. I haven't had any issues, even after 4 sets of 25 leg lifts. Thinking about doing the abRoller , tomorrow.

Mark B wrote:"Most of my patients don't wake up and run 10 miles in the morning."  

Great quote.

I'd second (third?) the suggestion of finding a sports cardiologist - Houston is so big, there has to be someone with that specialty there - and starting and extending your warm-up period. When I did my low HR stuff, I always started by walking 5 minutes and then starting slowly for the rest of that first mile. It's supposed to ease your body from one state (idle) to another (active) without shocking it. 

I wonder if it's possible that something in your system is, for the lack of a better word, wanting to spasm if you push it through that idle-active transition too quickly. Sort of like a chest cramp? Which makes me wonder if your weightlifting is working something in your chest and putting it on edge. Did you start a particular exercise in the weeks before the symptoms started? 

What you're describing sounds a LOT like angina. My mom had problems with that for a while. The nitro did help.

As far as a cardiac thread, bring it on. Coronary artery disease runs in my family (my dad got a stent at 64 and my mom had angina and then died from a ruptured brain aneurysm at 64), so I'm interested in all the different ways it can manifest itself.

I'm sure there are quite a few, here in town.

Warming up has never been my thing.  I think that I did it once for Houston, when I felt like I had a good shot at a PR.  Ran on the back streets of the convention center.  Actually, I think I did it more for draining the bladder than anything else, since I usually stop at mile 1, 6, and 9 AND the wait to cross the start line is 30 minutes or longer.

As far as new lift routines, there's bench press and the AbRoller.  I can say that I (the brain) that was getting acclimated to doing doubles.  The first couple of times, it was more tiring than not running before.

I think 'coronary artery disease' is like 'chronic obstructive pulmonary disease' in that there's a low threshold to clinically have it.  Heck, Mark, your history would probably qualify you as having CAD, now.

Separately, Mark's warming up idea dovetails into my run this morning. 

I did a 'what if..'  What if I mimicked the nuke stress test.  After all, I pretty much didn't have any pain.  I can't write now, but I warmed up 3 minutes walking, then 3 minutes faster walking, then running until the discomfort reached my threshold, walked until it stopped, then ran, rinse repeat.

14:06 pace, 54:41, 3.88 miles (all inclusive), 120 avg bpm, 144 max bpm, 150 avg cadence (all inclusive).  Graphs later.  Sorry to tease, but I have to go.

On the nuke stress test:  3 minute walk, 3 minute faster walk, 3 minutes running.  Each was at an increasing tilt to the treadmill.

Keep in mind that if I'm typing this (and I am), then the pain was never bad enough to buckle me, nor visit the ER.

SO this morning, I went to Memorial Park for its uniformity of grade (didn't have to worry about a sidewalk making me fall).  My garmin was dead, so I had to look at Polar's clock (I don't program my Polar to have elapsed time visible on the different windows).

The first 2 laps were 3 minute estimations to warming up.  3rd lap started the running.  When the angina got to where I wanted to stop, I hit the lap button and walked until the pain subsided.

Lap 3 was the first sign of pain or discomfort at a spot between the sternum and the right nipple, which is around where it started during the nuke test. But I kept running.
Lap 4 was the second sign where the discomfort filled in the line from the sternum to the right nipple.  But I kept running.
Lap 5 - I stopped to walk to see if the pain subsided.
Lap 6 was the walking time.
Lap 7 - giddy up.
Lap 8 - walk.
Lap 9 - giddy up.
Lap 10 - walk.
Lap 11 - giddy up
Lap 12 - walk.
Lap 13 - giddy up.
Lap 14 - walk.
Lap 15 - Crack that whip to finish.



What I was doing today reminded me of Jeff Galloway's 3-1 (run miles-walk miles) program of 10-15 years ago.  Might be a method to run a marathon, next year.

In summary, nothing hurt other than what we know of.

But this afternoon, I had a run in with a door.  There was this piece of metal that was attached to a door, so it covered the door frame.  This was to keep a crowbar from getting in the gap of the door and the frame in event of a burglary.  Well, this piece of metal ran the length of the door, extending about 2 inches from the door.  The landing outside the door is about 2 or 3 inches below the door.  When I opened the door, the bottom of the piece of metal caught my right foot's big toenail and ripped it right off.  Hurt like the dickens...or a couple of dickens. 

It bled quite profusely all over the sock and inside of the shoe.  Being on baby aspirin didn't make it better.

So, I think my running will have to wait until the quick is covered some.  I've lost toenails before, so it's not unknown territory.  The method of the toenail-ectomy was.

Sorry the graphs and figures are so spread out.  Thanks.

Mark's board said my message was too long.  So, I'm trying to break it up.

The HR function was screwy from lap 4 to 7, so the pace and cadence graphs are the most accurate visual measure.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

As far as new lift routines, there's bench press and the AbRoller.  I can say that I (the brain) that was getting acclimated to doing doubles.  The first couple of times, it was more tiring than not running before.

Wait a freakin' minute.

When you say AbRoller, do you mean one of these bad boys?



Where you roll out, with all your weight supported on the axle as you extend your torso out? 

Did you have any chest issues before you started using this piece of equipment? Because if you didn't, I think the strain you're putting on your chest muscles and underlying skeletal structure just might have more to do with that pain you're feeling than your ticker. I don't know if you've brought it up with your doc, who is wisely checking the other more fatal possibilities, but I'd ask if I were you.

---

BTW, as far as CAD goes, I had a big cardiac workup with a stress EKG and sonogram with a local heart clinic back when I was just starting doing marathons. At that point, at least, things were looking and working very well.

I just started using it maybe 3 weeks ago.  I can't go flat out, yet.  In the stick figures of your picture, I'm a little further out than the 2nd row, 2nd stick figure.  It just works the lower pec of the chest muscles.  I feel it in the stomach, the lats, and especially the traps.  The bench press works the pecs more than the AbRoller.  The AbRoller is such a simple machine that does so much.  I figured out that it will help my gut and ability to do pull ups, which after all is the reason that I'm doing the weights anyway.

I will be quite pleased when I can go flat out on the AbRoller.

I've been doing bench press for maybe 3 months.  I had no chest issues, prior to December 1.



I will ask the doc on Wednesday.  I am going to produce an updated version of the weekly time working out and running.  No telling what his mind will think.  I'll also bring my laptop to show the Polar data.  The polar app doesn't, in my opinion, give a good representation of what's going on.

Since I won't be able to run for a few days, I'll go lift weights.  I don't think the AbRoller will be possible, but I'll find out.

My big toe isn't throbbing, so that's a good thing.  I stuck some neosporin on the nail bed and wrapped it back up.  I will mention the toe nail was hanging on by a small flap of skin.  And when the nurse looked at it, that provided unique optics for his memory.

Thanks, Mark.

There's 1 thing y'all haven't thought of that would be more of a factor than a pulled pec.

I have donated platelets since August a total of 8 times. FDA rules require that a donor not take any aspirin containing products 48 hours prior to donation. The last donation was November 24.

Further, the doc d/c'd the Plavix i was taking back in August. So, that could have affected the outcome.

Is the outcome reversible with Plavix and no more donating? Beats me, but it couldn't hurt.

I'm running, tomorrow. Same basic idea.

I lifted today and used the abroller. I found that rolling out, my lower stomach muscles engage when I am at where I need to stop. My traps engage when I roll back. I can't see myself going flat out, but maybe so. No pain anywhere.

The toe is doing well. There's bruising at the base of the toe, but it wiggles just fine. I remember in 2006 where I ran 2 marathons, 2 weeks apart, the same right big toe lost its nail in the first marathon. The 2nd marathon was a PR that lasted 9 years.

Thanks, y'all. Don't get too crazy on the theories. I don't mind them. Takes a bunch to freak me. The bloody sock was kinda cool! Dripping blood in a waiting room, wiping up the blood so others wouldn't freak. It is wrapped with a gauze pad and neosporin. Amputation is not warranted, so far.

This morning it was 64 degrees.  For the sake of consistency, I went to Memorial Park again for my outside stress test.

Again, the HR wasn't registering early, but caught on, once I started the running part.  I'll have to change out the battery on the strap, but my real thought is the water on the strap dries out during the drive to the park.  It works, when I wet it at home and start 2-3 minutes later.

The run went well!  There were many instances where A pain started, but never advanced in more pain.  This is very different than Thursday.  Only during the last mile and a quarter did I have to stop a total of 4times for very short seconds, as evidenced by the pace and cadence graph.  That's very encouraging.

Again, it was a 3 minute walk warm up, then 3 minutes at a faster walk, then giddy up.

Below is the Pace and Cadence graphs or on the next post, due to 'length.'

Thursday, the stops to walk for pain started at around 24 minutes.  Today, at around 32 minutes. 

Thursday's stops were between 52 seconds to 1:28.  Thursday's were almost evenly spaced.
All of today's stops were less than a minute.  Today's started later, but 3 of them occurred between 40 and 48 minutes.

Here's the HR for the last half of the run.  It is spread wider, so not really consistent with the pace and cadence layout and the strap was working fine.



Seems like as the run ticks along, the pain causing walking occurs more frequently.

Thanks for your thoughts.

One thing that I failed to mention about the run. The right big toe had zero pain. I just hope no one steps on it.

I went to the gym, this morning, and it went pretty well.  I did the usual routines and the AbRoller .  I wasn't able to roll out as far as the last time.  The upper part of my stomach muscles acted like a governor and kept me closer.  I'm going to figure the AbRoller is not an every day or every other day piece of equipment, until the muscles get used to it.

I saw a video on YouTube about biceps and how much the frontal deltoid muscle makes your biceps seem stronger than they really are with a curl bar.  It also explains why I have plateaued on curls.  I was at 67 pounds on a curl bar made up of 35 pounds of weights and a 32 pound curl bar.  The video recommended that a dumbbell (pictured below), held on its side with the flat side always parallel to the floor (not like the picture) and curled from the waist to the chest isolates the biceps and excludes the frontal deltoid.

The result was that 40 lbs turned out to be with what the biceps could do 3 sets of 6 reps.  So, the frontal deltoid was doing more work than I imagined.  There's always the desire in runners to have a balanced muscle groups, e.g. quads to hamstrings or adductors to abductors.  The bicep/tricep balance is much closer, now, than before I saw the video.  Instead of 67 biceps/45 triceps, it's 40 bicep/45 triceps.

Live and learn.  Things are good.  Thanks.

nkrichards wrote:You just don't quit Doug!  Chest pain while running would make me a lot more nervous than it appears to make you.  Maybe it is just something that you will have to learn to live/run with.  Curious to hear what the cardiologist has to say when given more details.

I think I'd use the chest pain as a good excuse to abandon the AbRoller...it looks like a torture device. 

Stay safe and keep us updated...

I do quit.  I do.  But the carrot of completing a marathon with no time constraint is a big one.  I am pretty confident that I'll be walking more miles than running.

But, Nancy, your event was a TON different than mine.  I walked into the ER and never lost consciousness.  I had an elementary school event.  Yours was high school.  My event is mechanical.  Yours was electrical and mechanical.

My cardiologist doesn't know why I have the angina and, of course, nor do I.  But I'm going to 'what if' my heart to...death...so to speak, just not literally.  

I am fine and able to do what I want, except when running at a higher than resting HR.  It just occurs during running, not lifting weights.  The exercise that gets my heart going when at the gym is 4 sets of 25 leg lifts, with a 60 second break in between sets.  By the end of set 4, I am breathing hard...with no heart pain.

I am working on determining what my boundaries are when running.  How far and how fast.  Oh, I have thought about the logistics and the thought of going splat, while running.  But Saturday's run and discomfort/pain was no different than the discomfort, but no stabbing pain, we have from a quad or knee or a calf, when we run.  The location in the heart was the exact same place as Thursday's run.  Had the pain started in a new place, welllll, that would've gotten my attention and I would have stopped to assess.

I am gathering information for the cardiologist.  I can quantify that the pain occurs and I can quantify when the pain is enough to make me stop. 

I can tell you, Nancy, there is 1 spot at Memorial Park where the 1 incline (keep in mind there are very gentle rises when not perfectly flat) will cause my heart will generate enough pain within 200 feet that I have to walk.  This happened on Thursday and Saturday.  I imagine if I started walking stairs, then it would hurt some.

So, Tuesday, I will go back to Memorial Park to run it one more time before my appointment on Wednesday afternoon.

I am hoping to quantify my pain-free, long mileage, cruising HR, my moderate HR with pain, and my max HR.  Hopefully, my cruising HR is faster than a 13:30 pace for the 2022 Houston.  I have time to work on that.

My big toe is doing good.  I'm going to be fine, Nancy, even with the AbRoller .

Tim C wrote:Stay safe, Doug.

Thanks, Tim.  Shall do (just not to the degree that Nancy wants me to).

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:

Tim C wrote:Stay safe, Doug.

Thanks, Tim.  Shall do (just not to the degree that Nancy wants me to).

I do understand Doug.  

I do things that are outside Marty's comfort zone but still within mine.  It's a risk/reward thing and we each have to make that choice ourselves.  It wouldn't make sense to stop living just to make sure we didn't die would it? 

Take care.  I'll still worry but I do understand and my concern isn't meant to be critical in any way.

I know it's not meant to be critical.

I chose to run at Memorial Park for more than it being a 3 mile loop that I know oh, so well. I won't have to dodge traffic for one, but the most important reason is, if I go splat, someone(s) will stop and render aid.

So as to not worry you, tonight, I might go running in the morning, but then again, I might not. But it'll be at the Park.

Nancy, I won't be running or lifting at all, next week.