Trails for Two

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:I noticed on the Terraventure, as well as the Peregrine 7, the gaiter attachment loop at the beginning of lacing the shoe area is not there.  I also noticed the same on the other 2 Topo trail shoes.  The Peregrine 4, 5, and 6 models have the loop.

Do you have any insight as to the reason for the change?  I guess those that use gaiters will just have to attach it to the shoe string.

Enjoy the surprise taper.

I've rarely seen trail shoes with a gaiter loop up front like those older Peregrines, even Altras with the weird Velcro "gaiter trap" on the heel. I guess you're just supposed to attach them to the laces. I've never used gaiters, so I'm not an expert in this field.

WHAT!!!  You're Mr. Trail!!!!!!  Runner of the mountains.  Runner getting the MOST for his registration dollar!!! (that DFL you have )  Feet that have an innate ability to locate hidden roots!

Well, I bought them after getting some gravel from the Brazos Bend trails and thought it would be a bad use of time to have to pull the shoes off to get the gravel out.  They did work very well on that dry trail.

Yeah, I may be "Mr. Trail," but the trails around me don't have a lot of sand and small rocks just waiting to get into your shoes -- or ticks just waiting to get into your ankles. I get crap in my shoes sometimes, but I just stop and fish it out. It's never been an issue, even on my 50-miler.

Now, if you were at a place with tons of crap on the trail -- or ticks, or lots of stinging nettles -- then a bit of ankle protection would be a good idea. I just haven't encountered that yet. A high school classmate of mine wears his gaiters religiously -- I think he even wears them at road races -- but that's his thing. He also wears those tall support socks too. It seems odd to me, but he's a heck of a lot faster than I am, so who am I to judge?

Trail Run: 10.46 miles

Weather: Overcast, mild. Gear: Topos, shorts, T. Fuel: S-Caps every hour, nuun in bottles, foot at 90 min, then 45 min after.

Our first long run of taper, with a few complications: I'm nursing the sore/twitchy calf, and I switched to my Topo road shoes (Fli-Lytes) because I never want to wear those Lone Peaks again. Luckily, the trails in Whipple Creek Park aren't massively technical, and the shoes have a bit of a trail vibe to them. They handled it pretty well, though I'm looking forward to getting some trail shoes real soon now.

The run went pretty well. We kept it easy and relaxed, since the goal is to keep the fitness up and not hurt ourselves. We stopped at one point and chatted for about 15 minutes with a couple curious about trail races, shoes, etc. That was nice.

Walked first and lat 5 minutes or so. Average HR for entire run: 119

Mark B wrote:Trail Run: 10.46 miles

Weather: Overcast, mild. Gear: Topos, shorts, T. Fuel: S-Caps every hour, nuun in bottles, foot at 90 min, then 45 min after.

Our first long run of taper, with a few complications: I'm nursing the sore/twitchy calf, and I switched to my Topo road shoes (Fli-Lytes) because I never want to wear those Lone Peaks again. Luckily, the trails in Whipple Creek Park aren't massively technical, and the shoes have a bit of a trail vibe to them. They handled it pretty well, though I'm looking forward to getting some trail shoes real soon now.

The run went pretty well. We kept it easy and relaxed, since the goal is to keep the fitness up and not hurt ourselves. We stopped at one point and chatted for about 15 minutes with a couple curious about trail races, shoes, etc. That was nice.

Walked first and lat 5 minutes or so. Average HR for entire run: 119

Sounds like a fun run.  I'm just starting to appreciate the social aspect of running...they tell me it's not all about competition.

Hope the shoe and calf issues sort themselves out to your satisfaction.

nkrichards wrote:

Mark B wrote:Trail Run: 10.46 miles

Weather: Overcast, mild. Gear: Topos, shorts, T. Fuel: S-Caps every hour, nuun in bottles, foot at 90 min, then 45 min after.

Our first long run of taper, with a few complications: I'm nursing the sore/twitchy calf, and I switched to my Topo road shoes (Fli-Lytes) because I never want to wear those Lone Peaks again. Luckily, the trails in Whipple Creek Park aren't massively technical, and the shoes have a bit of a trail vibe to them. They handled it pretty well, though I'm looking forward to getting some trail shoes real soon now.

The run went pretty well. We kept it easy and relaxed, since the goal is to keep the fitness up and not hurt ourselves. We stopped at one point and chatted for about 15 minutes with a couple curious about trail races, shoes, etc. That was nice.

Walked first and lat 5 minutes or so. Average HR for entire run: 119

Sounds like a fun run.  I'm just starting to appreciate the social aspect of running...they tell me it's not all about competition.

Hope the shoe and calf issues sort themselves out to your satisfaction.

It was a fun run, Nancy. And "they" have a point. Competition can be fun, but I've read posts from some people who say that, once they can't be competitive, they'll stop running and do something else. Their choice, but I think they're missing out on what I think is the best part of running.

New shoes!!

Introducing my new Topo Athletics Terraventure trail shoes:







They have a 3 mm heel-to-toe drop, which is low but not zero -- which might help a little on the downhills and the walking. (I try to land midfoot when running but I land more on my heel while walking.) They've got a decent sole -- reviewers have been gushing about them -- and most importantly, the toebox is wide enough to accommodate my odd-shaped feet. It's nice to have some toe room.

Getting them was a bit of a challenge. I saw they had them at REI a week ago during their anniversary sale and wanted to try them on. They were out of my size, and the other Topo models they had didn't fit my foot, so I went to a local shoe store that also sells Topos -- and was told they don't carry the model, but they'd special order one so I could try it on and maybe buy it. I agreed, and they said they'd contact the seller and let me know when they shipped.

As of yesterday, still nothing from the shoe store. So on a whim, I called REI again and had them do a stock check. They had them back in again! I told the shoe store to never mind, and I headed to REI to try them on. They feel pretty good. I was having some problems getting a good midfoot lock down for steep downhills, but I was able to cinch the laces to minimize it. I'm hoping it won't be an issue. One nice thing is that the next race is pretty much 12 hours of flat.

I'll have to take them out on the trails soon to see how they feel in dirt.

Low HR Run: 3 miles

Weather: Sunny and mild, with a breeze. 66° Gear: Topo Fli-Lytes, shorts, T.

We waited a little later today to take advantage of warmer temperatures and sunshine (okay, we stalled and finally got around to it) to put in a few road miles. Alita said she didn't have much energy, but she kept breaking into the upper 10s as we ran, so she had more in her than she thought. :-)

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 121

Tempo Run: 4.28 miles

Weather: Sunny, cool but warming quickly. 43-50° Gear: Fli-Lytes, shorts, T, pullover (shed), gloves (briefly)

A cool morning, and my legs felt good enough to want to go faster than usual. My HR was ridiculously low to start, so I went with it. I ended up running the bulk of this in the mid- to low-9s, with forays into the upper 8s. The pace pushed my HR up into my old LT run level, but the effort level felt relatively comfortable. I paid close attention to my left calf, but it didn't seem to mind. Crossing my fingers that this is resolving itself.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 138

Sounds like you and Alita are both full of energy!  Don't unleash to much before the 17th.

nkrichards wrote:Sounds like you and Alita are both full of energy!  Don't unleash to much before the 17th.

*Sigh*

Okay, I'll try to be good...

But just wait until we get closer to race day!!

Mark B wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Sounds like you and Alita are both full of energy!  Don't unleash to much before the 17th.

*Sigh*

Okay, I'll try to be good...    

But just wait until we get closer to race day!!

He'll have to be good because he doesn't want to tweak his calf.  Imagine a circus elephant with a hind leg shackled by rope to a metal loop.  So, it'll look like:

"12 hours of flat" seems like my world.  They have flat places like that up there, other than a track?

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Sounds like you and Alita are both full of energy!  Don't unleash to much before the 17th.

*Sigh*

Okay, I'll try to be good...    

But just wait until we get closer to race day!!

He'll have to be good because he doesn't want to tweak his calf.  Imagine a circus elephant with a hind leg shackled by rope to a metal loop.  So, it'll look like:

"12 hours of flat" seems like my world.  They have flat places like that up there, other than a track?

Well, even "flat" isn't completely flat for this course. There's 15 feet of elevation change in every 1.0544-mile loop. That means a couple of relatively small ups-and-downs, including one scamper up what Alita and I jokingly called "Heartbreak Hill" the last time we ran there. Most people walk that short section, especially after a while. Even 15 feet of change can add up when you keep doing it over and over again.

As far as "flat" around where I live, the answer is basically no. If I want to do a pure flat time trial or a MAF test, I need to hit the high school track. I'm sure there are some flatter areas in the greater metro area, but it is far from the sort of flat in your neck of the woods.

Amen on behaving myself. The last thing I want is to have this leg go ka-sproing on me.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Sounds like you and Alita are both full of energy!  Don't unleash to much before the 17th.

*Sigh*

Okay, I'll try to be good...    

But just wait until we get closer to race day!!

He'll have to be good because he doesn't want to tweak his calf.  Imagine a circus elephant with a hind leg shackled by rope to a metal loop.  So, it'll look like:

"12 hours of flat" seems like my world.  They have flat places like that up there, other than a track?

Well, even "flat" isn't completely flat for this course. There's 15 feet of elevation change in every 1.0544-mile loop. That means a couple of relatively small ups-and-downs, including one scamper up what Alita and I jokingly called "Heartbreak Hill" the last time we ran there. Most people walk that short section, especially after a while. Even 15 feet of change can add up when you keep doing it over and over again.

As far as "flat" around where I live, the answer is basically no. If I want to do a pure flat time trial or a MAF test, I need to hit the high school track. I'm sure there are some flatter areas in the greater metro area, but it is far from the sort of flat in your neck of the woods.

Amen on behaving myself. The last thing I want is to have this leg go ka-sproing on me.

Y'all should take a picture with Heartbreak Hill in the background with y'all in the foreground...doubled over, hands grabbing the bottom of your shorts as if the strain of topping that hill every...single...time is almost too much to handle.

As far as Elijah's park, is that anywhere close to "7 miles east of Cloverdale" or "Green Mountain" Lat: 43.725278°N  Lon: 122.805556°W Elev: 3064ft. ??

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Sounds like you and Alita are both full of energy!  Don't unleash to much before the 17th.

*Sigh*

Okay, I'll try to be good...    

But just wait until we get closer to race day!!

He'll have to be good because he doesn't want to tweak his calf.  Imagine a circus elephant with a hind leg shackled by rope to a metal loop.  So, it'll look like:

"12 hours of flat" seems like my world.  They have flat places like that up there, other than a track?

Well, even "flat" isn't completely flat for this course. There's 15 feet of elevation change in every 1.0544-mile loop. That means a couple of relatively small ups-and-downs, including one scamper up what Alita and I jokingly called "Heartbreak Hill" the last time we ran there. Most people walk that short section, especially after a while. Even 15 feet of change can add up when you keep doing it over and over again.

As far as "flat" around where I live, the answer is basically no. If I want to do a pure flat time trial or a MAF test, I need to hit the high school track. I'm sure there are some flatter areas in the greater metro area, but it is far from the sort of flat in your neck of the woods.

Amen on behaving myself. The last thing I want is to have this leg go ka-sproing on me.

Y'all should take a picture with Heartbreak Hill in the background with y'all in the foreground...doubled over, hands grabbing the bottom of your shorts as if the strain of topping that hill every...single...time is almost too much to handle.

As far as Elijah's park, is that anywhere close to "7 miles east of Cloverdale" or "Green Mountain" Lat: 43.725278°N  Lon: 122.805556°W Elev: 3064ft. ??

Not quite. Those coordinates are for mountains to the south of where the race is held.

Here are the actual coordinates (with a link to a map): 43.940734, -122.833548

And here is the park's website. It's part of the Oregon State Parks System.

it's a nice park, along the Middle Fork of the Willamette River. It's heavily forested, so shade will be nice if it gets too warm. And we know it can get nice and muddy if an unexpected thunderstorm sweeps through like it did last year.

Yeah, on the NWS website you get http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.9406&lon=-122.8356#.WTclxbjzOpo
when you input Elijah Bristow state park.

Oh well, at least you're not running there this weekend.  You'd be muddin', if you were.

ounce wrote:Yeah, on the NWS website you get http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.9406&lon=-122.8356#.WTclxbjzOpo
when you input Elijah Bristow state park.

Oh well, at least you're not running there this weekend.  You'd be muddin', if you were.

Mudding is what we did last year, when those storms came through. I saved a big glop of it and turned it into a dried brick as a souvenir for Alita.

We'll see about the 17th. I've seen forecasts of warm and dry, or cloudy, or rainy. Gee, thanks guys.

Barefoot Run: 4.18 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, mild. 54° Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T.

My calf/knee felt good enough this morning to attempt a barefoot run in the neighborhood. I started out easy (I thought) and kept it as relaxed as I could. I was pleased and a little surprised when I did the first mile in 10:16 with an average HR of 129. But not as surprised as in the next mile, which came in at 9:56 and 138. I slowed a little in the third mile, to 10:11, but my HR dropped to 136. In the fourth mile, I hit 10:02 with a HR of 139. Pretty nicely consistent, though I felt some fatigue starting to build up in the last two miles. Considering the pace, I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.

The calf/knee was fine after it warmed up. In fact, I don't think I even noticed it after the first few minutes.

Average HR for entire run: 136

--

Also went out at lunch and walked for just over a mile, trying to keep my muscles loose, since they tend to tighten up sitting at my desk at work.

Low HR Run: 3 miles

Weather: Overcast, mild, spotty light rain. 58° Gear: Fli-Lytes, shorts, T, cap.

We're well into taper now, so I opted for a shorter run and tried to keep the effort level easy. Oddly, though the HR was nice and low, the effort level felt high. Ah, taper.

There was a little light rain, but mostly it was must almost warm and muggy.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for the entire run: 124

Catching up with everyone after a couple very busy days!

Looks like taper is going well.  The calf/knee seem to be cooperating.  HR rate is impressive to say the least!

Sorry I missed out on the discussion of your course a couple days ago.  All that I have to add is that the mental challenge of running around in circles for that long has to be tough.  In addition to naming the "hill" on the route I would think that all the trees would have names as well after the first few laps.

Hoping the weather cooperates and is a bit less "interesting" than last year.

nkrichards wrote:In addition to naming the "hill" on the route I would think that all the trees would have names as well after the first few laps.

And if we were doing the 24-hour race, I think those trees would be talking to us, eventually.

The nice thing about that loop is that the views vary somewhat. You start off in a gravel parking lot, then dive into the woods, hang a left, then cruise on for a while before making a right, then a left near the river, then follow the river for a while before hanging a left, going up "Heartbreak Hill" and emerging onto an asphalt road, which takes you back to the timing mat, aid station and the gravel parking lot, where you start your next lap.

Yes, I can get monotonous, but not as much as a quarter mile track, and the people there are generally nice and sociable. That helps the time pass.

The weather forecast has changed a lot over the past week. It started out with cool and maybe rainy, then moderate and cloudy, and now it's sunny and a high near 80. That's the Weather Underground forecast, mind you. The NWS forecast only goes through Friday at this point, and it's forecasting partly sunny, a chance of rain and a high near 73 for that day. So who knows? Cooler and cloudier would be preferable, but we'll take what we can get.

I'm actually getting excited about this event. I'm trying to rein it in as to not freak out my running partner.

Trail Run: 8.12 miles (gps map corrected)

Weather: Mixed. Sun, then a long, hard shower. 61-57° Gear: Topo Terraventures, shorts, T, hat.

Our last weekend run before Elijah Bristow! I was feeling the manic energy building, so I was happy to get out. I was also antsy about testing out my new Terraventures on the trails. Given how many other options have fallen through for me, shoe-wise, they pretty much HAVE to work. Happily, they did.

We did three big laps through Whipple Creek Park. It started off partly sunny and almost warm, but the clouds came in, the temperature dropped and rain moved in just as we were finishing our second lap. It rained at varying levels of intensity the entire third lap. Glad I wore a hat! We were soaked and chilled by the time we got done.

The shoes felt a little weird at first -- it took a few tries getting the lacing right -- but the more I ran in them, the more natural they felt. I also got them good and muddy and wet, so they're not going to look brand-spanking new out there next Saturday. Whew!

Walked first 5 minutes but did NOT walk to the car. We wanted to get someplace dry!

I looked at the NWS Forecast Discussion for "Cascade Foothills in Lane County, OR" that was issued today at 2:25 pm PDT.

.LONG TERM...Wednesday night through Sunday...Models continue to
agree on a period of [url=http://forecast.weather.gov/glossary.php?word=zonal flow]zonal flow[/url] across the NE Pacific for the
extended period, with a series of weak disturbances bringing
occasional chances of light rain or drizzle, mainly to the coast,
but also with possible showers in the Cascades. The strongest system
looks to arrive on Thursday afternoon/evening with rain moving into
the area with the front. Some post frontal showers expected to
linger on Friday. Models do indicate a break between systems on
Saturday, then another weak system passes to our north on Sunday. tw


In the Houston office, when they use phrases like "Models continue to agree..." they are pretty durn confident about it.  So, I would apply the same to this Forecast Discussion. I am a little concerned the gradual increase in temperatures through the whole week.  I will be looking for a slide in temps, where the days slide left or right and the temps don't change.  I have no idea how if the 'foothills' and the Park are similar.

Regarding the 12 hour race on Saturday:
1.  Will everyone run just 1 lap?  I mean, I can surely run one lap in 12 hours.
2.  How long do you have to finish the lap?
3.  Are you going to win?  And Alita?
4.  How are the Aid Stations spread out?
5.  Do you get to use a pacer for the lap?
6.  Will Alec be providing motivating music for the lap?
7.  Are the other runners spread out by corral at the start?
8.  ESPN?

Don't freak out your running partner!  That would not be a good way to start a 12 hour event!!

Glad the shoes seem to be working out...and that you got them dirty before race day.

Our weather prediction was calling for pretty warm temps (low 80's) on Saturday but I noticed this morning that they dropped the temps into the high 70's.  Hope that trend continues...

ounce wrote:I looked at the NWS Forecast Discussion for "Cascade Foothills in Lane County, OR" that was issued today at 2:25 pm PDT.

.LONG TERM...Wednesday night through Sunday...Models continue to
agree on a period of [url=http://forecast.weather.gov/glossary.php?word=zonal flow]zonal flow[/url] across the NE Pacific for the
extended period, with a series of weak disturbances bringing
occasional chances of light rain or drizzle, mainly to the coast,
but also with possible showers in the Cascades. The strongest system
looks to arrive on Thursday afternoon/evening with rain moving into
the area with the front. Some post frontal showers expected to
linger on Friday. Models do indicate a break between systems on
Saturday, then another weak system passes to our north on Sunday. tw


In the Houston office, when they use phrases like "Models continue to agree..." they are pretty durn confident about it.  So, I would apply the same to this Forecast Discussion. I am a little concerned the gradual increase in temperatures through the whole week.  I will be looking for a slide in temps, where the days slide left or right and the temps don't change.  I have no idea how if the 'foothills' and the Park are similar.

Regarding the 12 hour race on Saturday:
1.  Will everyone run just 1 lap?  I mean, I can surely run one lap in 12 hours.
2.  How long do you have to finish the lap?
3.  Are you going to win?  And Alita?
4.  How are the Aid Stations spread out?
5.  Do you get to use a pacer for the lap?
6.  Will Alec be providing motivating music for the lap?
7.  Are the other runners spread out by corral at the start?
8.  ESPN?

We'll see on the weather. The temps will likely rise, as when the influence of the cooler marine air mass lessens, the influence of the warmer continental air mass increases. It's looking like highs in the mid 70s at the moment.

As to your questions...
1. One would think that at least one lap is possible. There are kids of racers who sign up for one of the time periods, go out and run a lap or two with mom or dad, then goof off for the rest of the day, go back and run a couple more.
2. On the 12-hour race, you have 12 hours to finish the lap. Though they do give credit for partial laps, so...
3. I guarantee we will not win, but we will set PRs in this event.
4. Aid stations are 1.054 miles apart. It's important to not request a bacon quesadilla at every aid station stop, lest you gain weight during the event.
5. Pacers are allowed after 12 hours (once it gets dark), so alas, we'll just pace each other.
6. When it rained last year, we both serenaded our fellow runner with rain-related songs. They were amused.
7. Given the size of this race and number of racers, the group is more likely to be a "pen."
8. No, and it's an outrage.

nkrichards wrote:Don't freak out your running partner!  That would not be a good way to start a 12 hour event!!

Glad the shoes seem to be working out...and that you got them dirty before race day.

Our weather prediction was calling for pretty warm temps (low 80's) on Saturday but I noticed this morning that they dropped the temps into the high 70's.  Hope that trend continues...

Good point! I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around 12 hours of running/walking myself, so I can't imagine what she's thinking. Of course, I've done 12+ hours before (at the 50-miler), so I remember how much it can hurt. Ignorance is bliss.

I hope the weather trend continues, too, though I'd rather it not rain. But if it does, at least we'll be used to it...

So this is kind of annoying...

I was getting ready to run this morning when I went to get my Garmin (a Forerunner 305) that I'd set in the window to find a satellite when I noticed it was off.

Hm.

Turned it back on again.

Uh. TRIED to turn it back on again.

What the heck?

Tried a reset. Nada.

Went to the computer, plugged it in, it started, then died.

Did a soft reset, worked for a while but was making crackling noises before shutting off. Not a good sign.

Did a full reset. It worked, but then started rapidly switching between screens, while still making crackling noises, then shut off again. Repeated tries did not get it to do anything.



Luckily, we actually own TWO Forerunner 305s. The other one was my original, which I'd dropped in a drawer when we'd gotten one for Alita and she decided she didn't want to wear it anymore Of course, it's battery was depleted, so I couldn't use it on my run today. Which, thanks to all the farting around with the Garmin, was only 2 miles.

I'm hoping the new/old 305 takes and holds a charge. We need it to keep our pace on track this weekend, and I'd rather not have to buy a new one. They're expensive, and I don't know which one I'd want, anyway.

I'll be testing out the new/old unit this week, so I should know if I need to go shopping soon.

The timing on this sucks, but at least it wasn't race morning. I wonder if a seal finally gave way and last Saturday's rain found a way in? Hm...