Trails for Two

nkrichards wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Treadmill Hill Climb: 3 miles @ 12% grade (1,900 feet)

Indoors, 70° Gear: Topos, shorts.

Testing out my hypothesis about tempo running affecting hill climbing later in the week, and there may be some truth to it. My average HR wasn't as low as it was in mid-March, but it was better than last week. It's worth noting that over time, the HR creep during the workout has been getting smaller than when I started, so that's good. I might need to extend the time/distance to squeeze more out of this workout, or change the intensity, since I don't have time to go longer.

Average HR for entire workout: 137

HR splits: 130, 139, 142

What if you swapped days of the two workouts?  How do you think things would go on HR, muscle fatigue, and the overall mood (and its downstream effects) of the patient?

Maybe, if I'm feeling like both the mad scientist and the test subject at the same time.

Next time I check I'm sure Doug will have posted a photo of a mad scientist here.

It is good to see that you've turned the trend around.  There are so many things that affect the HR and/or a training event.  It's almost impossible to determine which one thing you need to change...and maybe you don't need to change anything...maybe that's just the way this training cycle is going to go.

Yes, that's entirely possible. I'm not going to sweat it at this point, though I may try it at 4 mph and slowly jogging one of these days just to mix it up a bit.

Mark B wrote:Boy I hope you didn't have that stored on a hard drive somewhere... 

Nah.  Some social media website.  I forgot the name.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Boy I hope you didn't have that stored on a hard drive somewhere... 

Nah.  Some social media website.  I forgot the name.

I knew I could count on Doug!!

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Boy I hope you didn't have that stored on a hard drive somewhere... 

Nah.  Some social media website.  I forgot the name.

I knew I could count on Doug!!

Low HR Run: 6 miles

Weather: Mostly sunny with a couple of showers. About 60° Gear: Topos, shorts, T, jacket/hat (off and on depending on conditions)

Out for a Saturday run with Alita -- and a tummy still full of pho a couple hours after lunch. Urp! Kinda uncomfortable.

The Salmon Creek Greenway isn't flooded anymore, so we headed out there and enjoyed all sorts of watery views off the side of the bike path. Some parts looked like a lake - others like a swamp. Nice variety.

The run was pretty good. We had some pacing control issues later on, but kept it more or less on track. Our plan tomorrow is to head up into the Columbia River Gorge and hike up Hamilton Mountain, and run back down, which is the closest I can come to replicating race day conditions on May 13. We even got Alita a hydration pack for the longer effort. It'll be about 10 miles, but with lots of climbing.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 119

Mark B wrote:Low HR Run: 6 miles

Weather: Mostly sunny with a couple of showers. About 60° Gear: Topos, shorts, T, jacket/hat (off and on depending on conditions)

Out for a Saturday run with Alita -- and a tummy still full of pho a couple hours after lunch. Urp! Kinda uncomfortable.

The Salmon Creek Greenway isn't flooded anymore, so we headed out there and enjoyed all sorts of watery views off the side of the bike path. Some parts looked like a lake - others like a swamp. Nice variety.

The run was pretty good. We had some pacing control issues later on, but kept it more or less on track. Our plan tomorrow is to head up into the Columbia River Gorge and hike up Hamilton Mountain, and run back down, which is the closest I can come to replicating race day conditions on May 13. We even got Alita a hydration pack for the longer effort. It'll be about 10 miles, but with lots of climbing.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 119

Enjoy the hike/run.  What a fun area!  Winds predicted here today...hope you have good weather in the gorge.

nkrichards wrote:

Mark B wrote:Low HR Run: 6 miles

Weather: Mostly sunny with a couple of showers. About 60° Gear: Topos, shorts, T, jacket/hat (off and on depending on conditions)

Out for a Saturday run with Alita -- and a tummy still full of pho a couple hours after lunch. Urp! Kinda uncomfortable.

The Salmon Creek Greenway isn't flooded anymore, so we headed out there and enjoyed all sorts of watery views off the side of the bike path. Some parts looked like a lake - others like a swamp. Nice variety.

The run was pretty good. We had some pacing control issues later on, but kept it more or less on track. Our plan tomorrow is to head up into the Columbia River Gorge and hike up Hamilton Mountain, and run back down, which is the closest I can come to replicating race day conditions on May 13. We even got Alita a hydration pack for the longer effort. It'll be about 10 miles, but with lots of climbing.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 119

Enjoy the hike/run.  What a fun area!  Winds predicted here today...hope you have good weather in the gorge.

Well, the weather wasn't too bad. We got rained on a bit, but the forest provided some protection. We did get wind blasted and horizontal rain crossing one ridge, but that was more amusing than anything else.

Trail Run: 10.25 miles (Garmin said 8.

Weather: Overcast, some spots of rain, wind. 51° Gear: Lone Peaks, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket, hat, gloves (needed 'em!)

The sort-of climax of the Smith Rock training cycle: Taking Alita up Hamilton Mountain in the Columbia River Gorge. It's requires hours of climbing (about 2,500 feet) with all sorts of real world complications like downed trees, loose rock and 1,000+ foot cliffs. She handled it like the trouper she is, though she wasn't so wild about the rough rocky terrain close the cliffs. Understandably. But she got through it anyway.

There was much walking and power-hiking, and some running. But that's what you'd expect here. Knees and whatnot didn't cause any problems, so that's saying a lot on the most technical, steepest trail I know. My goal was a training run on a route tougher than the Smith Rock 15-miler coming up in a few weeks, and I think we succeeded. Woot!

Average HR on entire run: 110.

Well done, grasshoppah.

Mark B wrote:Trail Run: 10.25 miles (Garmin said 8.

Weather: Overcast, some spots of rain, wind. 51° Gear: Lone Peaks, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket, hat, gloves (needed 'em!)

The sort-of climax of the Smith Rock training cycle: Taking Alita up Hamilton Mountain in the Columbia River Gorge. It's requires hours of climbing (about 2,500 feet) with all sorts of real world complications like downed trees, loose rock and 1,000+ foot cliffs.  She handled it like the trouper she is, though she wasn't so wild about the rough rocky terrain close the cliffs. Understandably. But she got through it anyway.

There was much walking and power-hiking, and some running. But that's what you'd expect here. Knees and whatnot didn't cause any problems, so that's saying a lot on the most technical, steepest trail I know. My goal was a training run on a route tougher than the Smith Rock 15-miler coming up in a few weeks, and I think we succeeded. Woot!

Average HR on entire run: 110.

Good to hear that you both survived the challenge.  Smith Rock should be a walk in the park after that!

ounce wrote:Well done, grasshoppah.

Thanks! She did great.

nkrichards wrote:

Mark B wrote:Trail Run: 10.25 miles (Garmin said 8.

Weather: Overcast, some spots of rain, wind. 51° Gear: Lone Peaks, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket, hat, gloves (needed 'em!)

The sort-of climax of the Smith Rock training cycle: Taking Alita up Hamilton Mountain in the Columbia River Gorge. It's requires hours of climbing (about 2,500 feet) with all sorts of real world complications like downed trees, loose rock and 1,000+ foot cliffs.  She handled it like the trouper she is, though she wasn't so wild about the rough rocky terrain close the cliffs. Understandably. But she got through it anyway.

There was much walking and power-hiking, and some running. But that's what you'd expect here. Knees and whatnot didn't cause any problems, so that's saying a lot on the most technical, steepest trail I know. My goal was a training run on a route tougher than the Smith Rock 15-miler coming up in a few weeks, and I think we succeeded. Woot!

Average HR on entire run: 110.

Good to hear that you both survived the challenge.  Smith Rock should be a walk in the park after that!

That's what I'm hoping for. It's kind of been my plan all along. All those treadmill climbs seem to have done the trick.

Rainy run: 4.27 miles

Weather: Rain, wind. 44° Gear: Topos, shorts, rain pants, T, light pullover, jacket, hat, gloves. (Needed 'em all)

Not a very inviting morning to run, with steady rain and gusty winds, but what the heck. I dusted off my rain pants, hoping they were a little lighter than tights, which tend to be too warm over 42°, and they worked out pretty well. In fact, when I was running directly into the wind and rain, the front of my legs got pretty chilled.

The run was supposed to be a low HR effort, but my legs wanted to go faster. Not tempo-level faster, just faster. My last mile was still the fastest one again.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 133

A few photos from yesterday's Hamilton Mountain Adventure. I'll come back later to put them in better order and add some captions.

Nice landscape shots.

Oh, the captions I could write for some of those shots!

Two questions for you Mark....

Were the photos of Alita smiling taken at the beginning or the end of the run?

Did Alita have any idea that this was what you had in mind when you mentioned a trail run?

Awesome photos and kudos to both of you...but especially Alita...for completing this portion of the adventure.  Smith Rock really is going to be a walk in the park!

ounce wrote:Nice landscape shots.

Oh, the captions I could write for some of those shots!

I think thought bubbles would be the best options, Ounce...

nkrichards wrote:Two questions for you Mark....

Were the photos of Alita smiling taken at the beginning or the end of the run?

Did Alita have any idea that this was what you had in mind when you mentioned a trail run?

Awesome photos and kudos to both of you...but especially Alita...for completing this portion of the adventure.  Smith Rock really is going to be a walk in the park!

That big smiling shot was after we'd summited Hamilton Mountain and were working our way across a broad ridge that just happened to be a wind tunnel. Our clothes were whipping in the wind, and it was so comical we had to stop and take the photo. It blew off Alita's hat, but it got caught in her ponytail and didn't blow off the edge of a cliff. Whew1

I'd told her that this was going to be the most technical trail she'd ever been on, so she was prepared for most of it. That super-rough terrain right next to the huge drop-off was a big challenge, but she got through it. The girl's got grit.

My hope was that this will get us physically and mentally prepared for Smith Rock. Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Barefoot Run: 4.13 miles

Weather: Intermittent rain, 49° Gear: Bare feet, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket, hat.

The paper says there's a moisture plume from her to Japan, so waiting out the rain didn't seem like a plausible plan. I headed out, expecting to get wet, remembering to be careful to avoid getting blisters on waterlogged feet.

The result? A solid run, with decent paces and a lower heart rate. I even upped the effort level in the last mile and cut my pace by 30 seconds while keeping my HR to within 1 bpm of my target. Not bad for Mile 4! (Mile 1 was kinda creaky, thanks to hours in the car yesterday and helping my stepmom move. Cross training!)

Here are the paces and average HRs: 10:41/131; 10:27/136; 10:33/136; 10:00/139

Average HR for the entire run: 136

Encouraging HR/pace.

I'm sure you're tired of the rain.  Our amounts haven't been huge but it seems to rain a little bit every day or two and it's really making it tough to get anything done!  On the positive side....look at the snowpack!

nkrichards wrote:Encouraging HR/pace.

I'm sure you're tired of the rain.  Our amounts haven't been huge but it seems to rain a little bit every day or two and it's really making it tough to get anything done!  On the positive side....look at the snowpack!

Yay, snowpack! But seriously. This rain. Gah!

Treadmill Hill Workout: 1 very tough mile (633 feet climbing at 12% grade)

Indoors, 70° Gear: Topos, shorts.

Well, that didn't go as planned. I decided to try doing something more challenging this morning, running at 4 mph instead of walking at 3 mph at a 12% grade. I was already rushed, due to a broken garage door opener that needs repair, so I didn't think about any warmup before hopping on the TM and cranking away.

Wow. So much more difficult. I made it only a couple of minutes before it felt like my heart was going to explode out of my chest and had to step off (my HR was only 140, but revving to that speed in two minutes is apparently something new to it). I let everything settle down a bit before slowing the TM to 3.5 mph and starting up again. That worked better, though it was still difficult. I decided to only do a mile this morning. After about .8 miles, I decided to try walking at that pace. It worked for a bit, and my HR dropped a bit, but the difficulty ramped back up again and it felt like I was going to slide off the end of the belt. I was never so happy to see the 1 mile mark show up on the display.

Holy cow. I never expected that. This may be an area for possible improvement area for me. Also, it appears that a warm-up might be in order before trying something this intense. Yipes. Yipes. Yipes.

Average HR for entire mile: 124. Max HR: 149 (felt much higher)

I'm just now realizing that the Smith Rock you guys are gonna run is the same one that I'm looking into for when I'm in Eugene this summer.  Durr. 

Mike MacLellan wrote:I'm just now realizing that the Smith Rock you guys are gonna run is the same one that I'm looking into for when I'm in Eugene this summer.  Durr. 

Ha! Yup. The same one. It's a gorgeous spot. You'll like it.

Mark B wrote:Treadmill Hill Workout: 1 very tough mile (633 feet climbing at 12% grade)

Indoors, 70° Gear: Topos, shorts.

Well, that didn't go as planned. I decided to try doing something more challenging this morning, running at 4 mph instead of walking at 3 mph at a 12% grade. I was already rushed, due to a broken garage door opener that needs repair, so I didn't think about any warmup before hopping on the TM and cranking away.

Wow. So much more difficult. I made it only a couple of minutes before it felt like my heart was going to explode out of my chest and had to step off (my HR was only 140, but revving to that speed in two minutes is apparently something new to it). I let everything settle down a bit before slowing the TM to 3.5 mph and starting up again. That worked better, though it was still difficult. I decided to only do a mile this morning. After about .8 miles, I decided to try walking at that pace. It worked for a bit, and my HR dropped a bit, but the difficulty ramped back up again and it felt like I was going to slide off the end of the belt. I was never so happy to see the 1 mile mark show up on the display.

Holy cow. I never expected that. This may be an area for possible improvement area for me. Also, it appears that a warm-up might be in order before trying something this intense. Yipes. Yipes. Yipes.

Average HR for entire mile: 124. Max HR: 149 (felt much higher)

You're on the verge of a new discovery that will be positive to your training!  Keep n'ing

By the way, how's Alita's hearing doing?  Do you now have to talk quieter under your breath?

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Treadmill Hill Workout: 1 very tough mile (633 feet climbing at 12% grade)

Indoors, 70° Gear: Topos, shorts.

Well, that didn't go as planned. I decided to try doing something more challenging this morning, running at 4 mph instead of walking at 3 mph at a 12% grade. I was already rushed, due to a broken garage door opener that needs repair, so I didn't think about any warmup before hopping on the TM and cranking away.

Wow. So much more difficult. I made it only a couple of minutes before it felt like my heart was going to explode out of my chest and had to step off (my HR was only 140, but revving to that speed in two minutes is apparently something new to it). I let everything settle down a bit before slowing the TM to 3.5 mph and starting up again. That worked better, though it was still difficult. I decided to only do a mile this morning. After about .8 miles, I decided to try walking at that pace. It worked for a bit, and my HR dropped a bit, but the difficulty ramped back up again and it felt like I was going to slide off the end of the belt. I was never so happy to see the 1 mile mark show up on the display.

Holy cow. I never expected that. This may be an area for possible improvement area for me. Also, it appears that a warm-up might be in order before trying something this intense. Yipes. Yipes. Yipes.

Average HR for entire mile: 124. Max HR: 149 (felt much higher)

You're on the verge of a new discovery that will be positive to your training!  Keep n'ing

By the way, how's Alita's hearing doing?  Do you now have to talk quieter under your breath?

Let's hope it's a positive thing! Maybe I need to shift to hill interval training for a while to see what happens. That sounds so fun. /sarcasm

Alas, Alita's hearing did not improve after the stapedectomy. The surgery has a 90% success rate. She's in the 10%. She's going to have the surgery again later this summer. The ENT surgeon will be able to tell if the prosthesis got knocked out of place when Alita did her crash-and-burn on the garage steps, or if there's something else mechanically wrong. We're crossing our fingers that it's something simple like that. If not, it'll be hearing aid time.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Treadmill Hill Workout: 1 very tough mile (633 feet climbing at 12% grade)

Indoors, 70° Gear: Topos, shorts.

Well, that didn't go as planned. I decided to try doing something more challenging this morning, running at 4 mph instead of walking at 3 mph at a 12% grade. I was already rushed, due to a broken garage door opener that needs repair, so I didn't think about any warmup before hopping on the TM and cranking away.

Wow. So much more difficult. I made it only a couple of minutes before it felt like my heart was going to explode out of my chest and had to step off (my HR was only 140, but revving to that speed in two minutes is apparently something new to it). I let everything settle down a bit before slowing the TM to 3.5 mph and starting up again. That worked better, though it was still difficult. I decided to only do a mile this morning. After about .8 miles, I decided to try walking at that pace. It worked for a bit, and my HR dropped a bit, but the difficulty ramped back up again and it felt like I was going to slide off the end of the belt. I was never so happy to see the 1 mile mark show up on the display.

Holy cow. I never expected that. This may be an area for possible improvement area for me. Also, it appears that a warm-up might be in order before trying something this intense. Yipes. Yipes. Yipes.

Average HR for entire mile: 124. Max HR: 149 (felt much higher)

You're on the verge of a new discovery that will be positive to your training!  Keep n'ing

By the way, how's Alita's hearing doing?  Do you now have to talk quieter under your breath?

Let's hope it's a positive thing! Maybe I need to shift to hill interval training for a while to see what happens. That sounds so fun. /sarcasm

Alas, Alita's hearing did not improve after the stapedectomy. The surgery has a 90% success rate. She's in the 10%. She's going to have the surgery again later this summer. The ENT surgeon will be able to tell if the prosthesis got knocked out of place when Alita did her crash-and-burn on the garage steps, or if there's something else mechanically wrong. We're crossing our fingers that it's something simple like that. If not, it'll be hearing aid time.

Hope the ENT can diagnose the cause and that it's a quick fix.  The toughest things to fix are the things we struggle to diagnose.

Here's my analysis of your failed difficult hill TM workout.  It was a message from the Running Gods.  They gave you a good barefoot run earlier as a reward for your awesome outing on Sunday but felt that was adequate reward.  It was a reminder that you are mortal and that as much as we try to analyze and tweak our training they are really the ones in charge.  They'll be kinder next time I'm sure.