Re: It's all about the base

nkrichards Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:19 pm

Julie wrote:Wow, you are running great!

So sorry about the stolen irrigation pipe but I'm thankful it's been recovered.

I'm so out of the loop I honestly didn't even think about Boston this year...but thankful for those who could run!

Thanks Julie.

***

Good week so far...but I can definitely feel that I'm getting into real marathon training. Shocked

I'll follow up with details in a couple days.

I have a 16 miler on my schedule for tomorrow morning. A huge storm is predicted to hit overnight and into tomorrow morning. I can't reschedule as I have lunch with Mom and my brother (the one from Albuquerque) planned for the afternoon and we're leaving very early on Saturday to drive down to San Jose and recover the stolen vehicle. It's a 9 1/2 hour drive in a car so will take most of Saturday and Sunday especially with paper work and loading, pulling a trailer, and fighting the weather.

Running

Michele "1L" Keane Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:49 pm

Not sure if you were able to recover the vehicle in SJ with the weather in that area this weekend. Hopefully if you drove down there, you were well on your way back home and out of the weather. Stay safe! and Miles of smiles.

nkrichards Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:23 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Not sure if you were able to recover the vehicle in SJ with the weather in that area this weekend. Hopefully if you drove down there, you were well on your way back home and out of the weather. Stay safe! and Miles of smiles.

We just got home. With the vehicle! When we saw the weather prediction we decided to leave Friday at 4:30pm and we drove all the way to Redding. That got us to San Jose before noon on Saturday. We were back on I5 heading north before the serious rain hit. Windy and rainy overnight but not as bad as predicted.

Home safe and sound...AND...other than a bit of garbage and a couple missing tools no serious damage! We were shocked that most of the tools were still there.

It is going to take a bit of effort to get my legs moving again after 24 hours of driving time in the last 44 hours!

ounce Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:57 am

Ahhhhh, nothing like the barometric pressure equivalent (969 millibars) of a category 2 hurricane to liven things up on a road trip and after getting home. Was the NWS predicting a lot of snow for the elevations? I know they were predicting 7 feet for the Sierras in northern California. We get a reduced version of that storm on Wednesday morning. That'll put the morning low for this morning as the afternoon high on Friday.

It sure looks like you've slipped yourself into marathon training distances. Any idea of what caused the hamstring discomfort? If you ever get your paws on a TENS unit or similar, then it'll move your healing along quicker.

I'll try to jump in again, soon.

nkrichards Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:06 pm

ounce wrote:Ahhhhh, nothing like the barometric pressure equivalent (969 millibars) of a category 2 hurricane to liven things up on a road trip and after getting home. Was the NWS predicting a lot of snow for the elevations? I know they were predicting 7 feet for the Sierras in northern California. We get a reduced version of that storm on Wednesday morning. That'll put the morning low for this morning as the afternoon high on Friday.

It sure looks like you've slipped yourself into marathon training distances. Any idea of what caused the hamstring discomfort? If you ever get your paws on a TENS unit or similar, then it'll move your healing along quicker.

I'll try to jump in again, soon.

Yes, it was quite a storm. We were fortunate enough to miss the worst of it.

So the hamstring discomfort is interesting. I'm still not exactly sure what was/is going on but I've been able to keep it under control and I'm running well. The pain is on the left side sit bone and it moves down my leg when I sit for to long. During running the hamstrings are both a bit tight with the left side being slightly tighter but if I roll and warm up well I'm able to run fine. It does tighten up after my run and I try and roll again. Some history...this is a problem I've had off and on since my early 20's...not always on the same side. It often flares up in the fall when I spend a lot of time in the tractor. I've had it looked at a few times...various diagnosis. Since it comes and goes it's tough to figure out if the recommended recovery exercises worked or if it just cleared up on it's own.

Coach Melissa thinks it's piriformis syndrome. Based on the fact that it hurts when I sit that does make sense. And the piriformis area is tight...I can tell when I dig out the lacrosse ball and roll in that area.

The PT thinks it's a hamstring strain. His diagnosis is based on the fact that when I engage the hamstring it causes slight but noticeable pain. And he poked and prodded and found a (very small) specific sore spot near the top of the lateral hamstring...essentially right at the outside of the sit bone. I should note that one of the earlier diagnosis that I had a few years ago was tendonitis.

I'm not sure which diagnosis is correct...or is it a combination of the two? I have increased my mileage...A LOT!! But Melissa has been very careful to make sure we increase the mileage and intensity very slowly and cautiously. I only do two workouts per week with any intensity. She encourages me to concentrate on recovery as well as running. The time I spend on "extras"...core/strength, rolling, stretching, nutrition etc take almost as much time as my actual running! I've never been a big fan of rolling but she convinced me that I don't need to spend a lot of time rolling...even a couple minutes helps. She is right...I can really feel the difference when I take just a minute or two for a quick roll before and/or after I run. I've been concentrating on the piriformis and hamstring but trying to catch the other muscles as well. She also sent me a dynamic warm up and added it to my high intensity runs. I do some arm circles and leg swings before my run and then add some skips, high knees, and butt kicks to the first mile of my warm up run. It does seem to help and I often add it in even during my easy runs now. So far I've been able to control the pain and can see some improvement even with the increased mileage/intensity. Fingers crossed that I can stay on top of it and arrive at the start line healthy.

***
It's been so long since I posted my individual runs that I don't think I'll take the time to try and catch up completely. Lets just say that I'm in the full swing of marathon training! And I'm keeping up with core/strength work at least twice a week...one day of upper body and one day of legs. Core and stretching are included in each workout.

Weekly mileage has been right around 40 miles (+/- 2-3 miles). This week will be my highest mileage week (47 miles). This is more mileage than I've ever been able to do on a consistent basis. In the past if I had a 40 mile week it was sandwiched in between pretty low mileage weeks as I just couldn't handle that mileage consistently. I will have several 16 mile runs under my belt before the marathon...nothing longer. I'm trusting that the Hanson method works. They are tough 16 milers. This week I start easy and build the pace to the point where miles 13-15 are at MP then finish off with an easy mile. (Melissa has learned that if she's not specific I will finish fast and then add a cool down mile.) Next week is only 14 miles but the middle 10 are at MP. My last 16 miler is just a moderate paced long run with a negative split.

The other day of higher intensity is kind of fun. I did a lot of shorter intervals to start with 400 up to 1 mile. She would often mix up the distance and the pace...anywhere from 5K pace to HM pace. I really had to work hard to dial in the correct paces. I've transitioned into longer intervals at slightly slower paces. Yesterday was 11 miles with 3 x 2 miles @ MP -10 seconds (10:08) with 800 recovery. My intervals were 10:06, 10:04, 9:58. Next week is 6 x 1k @ 9:58. Then 2 x 3 miles @ 10:08. I have to dig pretty deep to hit the paces and finish well. She hasn't posted my taper yet but it will be a short one as there will only be two weeks remaining before race day.

I'm enjoying training...and the accountability that Melissa provides. I ran in the rain one day last week. Monday was especially hectic and I wasn't able to lace up my shoes till 4:00 but I did it...knowing Melissa was watching. Smile

Training has been challenging but in a good way. Farming responsibilities made some of my summer training tough. I thought things would slow down in October but they actually became busier...a trip to San Jose to collect the stolen vehicle, a trip to eastern Oregon to deliver pork, family obligations, helping Marty prepare for his annual elk hunting trip... Marty left this morning. Perfect timing as I'll have 10 days to concentrate on marathon training during the peak of things.

Not sure how things will go the next 4 1/2 weeks but I'm glad I made the commitment to this. Even if things don't go well on race day I've proven to myself that I can do more than I ever imagined.

Ultreya...

Mark B Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:13 am

Your hamstring thing sounds suspiciously like one of the problems I had years ago. The doc was convinced it was piriformis syndrome and sent me to a PT, but the PT figured out that it wasn't that but a spasming gemelli muscle deep inside my hip.

It's all about the base - Page 7 320px-10

What tipped her off was that it was most painful when I was sitting down. She found a way to release the spasm (passive release rather than active) and gave me a bunch of glute med exercises to work on. It fixed the problem.

You are definitely in the thick of marathon training and doing great!

nkrichards Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:05 am

Mark B wrote:Your hamstring thing sounds suspiciously like one of the problems I had years ago. The doc was convinced it was piriformis syndrome and sent me to a PT, but the PT figured out that it wasn't that but a spasming gemelli muscle deep inside my hip.

What tipped her off was that it was most painful when I was sitting down. She found a way to release the spasm (passive release rather than active) and gave me a bunch of glute med exercises to work on. It fixed the problem.

You are definitely in the thick of marathon training and doing great!

I remember when you were doing a lot of glute exercises. Weak glutes seem to be the cause of a lot of our problems.

So how did the passive release work? Is it something I can do at home? If not the problem may be finding a PT that confirms the diagnosis and then knows how to fix it. It seems like everyone I've seen over the years says it's something different and treats it differently but it's obviously still an issue.

***
Toughest week of training by far last week! I had a 16 mile progression run on Friday. The plan was to start easy and ease into the pace for the first 12 miles. Then 3 miles @ MP and a mile to cool down. I think that's the toughest training run I've ever done. It was definitely harder than any 20 miler I've ever done!
Overall pace 10:48 (Goal MP 10:18) Avg HR 149

11:34
11:09
10:59
10:54
10:52
10:58
10:49
10:39
10:42
10:36
10:37
10:30
10:19
10:17
10:09
11:47

I had to dig deep for this run. I really struggled to drop down to MP. I realized that I hadn't fueled as well during the run as I should have and managed to get another GU down early in mile 14. I felt a bit better...and knew that mile 15 was the last hard mile. On a positive note I recovered really well and completed my 6 mile easy run @ 11:25 on Saturday. Finished the week off with 47 miles and a nice 25 minute dynamic recovery workout this evening.

Looking forward to an easy week next week...only 39 miles including a 14 miler with 10 miles @MP. Shocked

nkrichards Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:46 am

This week was supposed to be a slight step back in mileage but still pretty tough.

Monday Easy 6 on the schedule. I had an opportunity to run with Janice but she wanted to do 3-4 miles at a pretty slow pace. I decided the company was worth the compromise and running with Janice does help me keep my easy days easy. I drove to the park and headed out early enough to get in 3+ miles before I met Janice at the top of the hill. She ran from her house. I ended up with 6.5 miles @ 11:31 and enjoyed the company.

Tuesday So...9 miles on the schedule w/6 x 1K @ MP-20 seconds (9:58). My instructions were to work on faster turnover on tired legs with a reminder not to overdo it. I haven't been sleeping well. I won't go into details other than to say I've been trying to advocate for Mom concerning some financial decisions and have been thrown into the position of family peacemaker. A wind storm woke me early and I couldn't get back to sleep so I did my 35 minute upper body strength work. Katie is visiting and needed a ride to drop off her car for winter tires. My older brother wanted to stop by later in the morning for coffee and I did want to talk to him. Kevin called and was in a panic as he wasn't going to make it back to pick up Connor from preschool. And the wind continued to blow. Let's just say it was nearly noon and I was up on jiggle when I finally started my run.

Warm up 2 mi @ 11:15 HR 147/161 Cad 153 (including mobility)
5.25 @ 9:51 HR 156/165 Cad 161

@9:37 (@10:39 rest)
@9:38 (@10:37)
@9:39 (@11:05)
@9:28 (@10:36)
@9:22 (@10:40)
@9:17 (@10:35)

Cool down 2 mi @ 11:09 HR 141/148 Cad 158

I executed this run very poorly. With an average interval pace @9:30 I did not follow Melissa's advice. I just could not concentrate long enough to drop into the recommended 9:58 pace. I was obviously running out my frustrations. And an average resting pace of 10:42 is not an easy resting pace either! The wind was annoying. I knew I was overdoing it. I finally threw caution to the wind and decided the damage was done and ignored the pace and finished strong but still frustrated. Even my warm up and cool down were to high an effort.

On the bright side...my turnover was great. Average cadence for the main portion was 161 and that included the resting intervals. And I maintained 158 during the cool down. Maybe I need to run the race frustrated...

I immediately communicated my concern that I really overdid this run to coach Melissa. I was worried I'd regret this during my 14 mile w/10 @ MP run on Friday. She replied that she was surprised I could run those paces on tired legs but that if I concentrated on recovery until my run on Friday I would probably be fine.

Still stressed but trying to put life's challenges in perspective and concentrate on recovery!

Mark B Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:43 am

nkrichards wrote:
I remember when you were doing a lot of glute exercises. Weak glutes seem to be the cause of a lot of our problems.

So how did the passive release work? Is it something I can do at home? If not the problem may be finding a PT that confirms the diagnosis and then knows how to fix it. It seems like everyone I've seen over the years says it's something different and treats it differently but it's obviously still an issue.

Forget achilles heels. It's the glutes that seem to get us runners. I think it's easy to move without engaging them, but not well. Since we runners are all lazy at the core, and we like to do things we enjoy (like run), we blunder on until the wheels (or legs) fall off.

Passive release is tricky. Here's a pretty good description of how it works.

As the linked information says, the therapist (a massage therapist might know this better than a PT) works the limb gently until the tension on the offended muscle is released. For the gemelli muscles, I was on my back. She lifted and rotated my leg (knee bent partly) while moving it laterally until she hit the sweet spot. She held it there for 45-90 seconds and lowered it. The pain was gone. It came back, but she was able to release it for increasingly longer periods of time as I worked to build the muscles that were supposed to be doing the work.

If you are trying to do it yourself, you could try laying on your back next to a pile of pillows. Move your leg out and up onto the pillows, allowing your leg to rotate externally. You hip should be flexed at about 45 degrees and keep your knee bent at maybe 30-45 degrees or so. Breathe and try to relax and not "help" the muscles.

Hard to describe. But maybe worth a try? At any rate, be sure to tell your providers that it hurts to sit on it. That was the key bit of information my PT needed to figure out the problem. The doc kept assuming it was piriformis syndrome, but we just ignored him. Smile

nkrichards Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:52 pm

Mark B wrote:
nkrichards wrote:
I remember when you were doing a lot of glute exercises. Weak glutes seem to be the cause of a lot of our problems.

So how did the passive release work? Is it something I can do at home? If not the problem may be finding a PT that confirms the diagnosis and then knows how to fix it. It seems like everyone I've seen over the years says it's something different and treats it differently but it's obviously still an issue.

Forget achilles heels. It's the glutes that seem to get us runners. I think it's easy to move without engaging them, but not well. Since we runners are all lazy at the core, and we like to do things we enjoy (like run), we blunder on until the wheels (or legs) fall off.

Passive release is tricky. Here's a pretty good description of how it works.

As the linked information says, the therapist (a massage therapist might know this better than a PT) works the limb gently until the tension on the offended muscle is released. For the gemelli muscles, I was on my back. She lifted and rotated my leg (knee bent partly) while moving it laterally until she hit the sweet spot. She held it there for 45-90 seconds and lowered it. The pain was gone. It came back, but she was able to release it for increasingly longer periods of time as I worked to build the muscles that were supposed to be doing the work.

If you are trying to do it yourself, you could try laying on your back next to a pile of pillows. Move your leg out and up onto the pillows, allowing your leg to rotate externally. You hip should be flexed at about 45 degrees and keep your knee bent at maybe 30-45 degrees or so. Breathe and try to relax and not "help" the muscles.

Hard to describe. But maybe worth a try? At any rate, be sure to tell your providers that it hurts to sit on it. That was the key bit of information my PT needed to figure out the problem. The doc kept assuming it was piriformis syndrome, but we just ignored him.

Interesting. Hard to shop for a good PT with today's medical insurance requirements for a referral!

Not sure I'd be successful doing this on my own. It's actually feeling pretty good right now and considering my mileage and intensity I'm really surprised. I wouldn't say it's 100% but it's close enough that I don't think I want to mess with it until after my marathon. I may shop around and see what I can figure out during my recovery time this winter.

***

I finished out last week with a short 4.75 mile recovery run with Janice and the gang followed by coffee. I needed the recovery run, the coffee, and the social support.

I ran the hardest training run in my life on Friday. Shocked

14 miles w/10 @ MP (10:18). It was so windy that the small box I tucked under a shrub against a rock blew over scattering my bottles and extra GU in the mud and out of reach. Fortunately it was still intact on my first pass so I only missed out on nutrition during the last few miles.

Warm up 2 mi @ 11:36

10:36
10:21
10:25
10:14
10:09
10:13
10:13
10:15
10:13
10:08

Cool down 2 mi @ 11:43

Did I mention the wind gusts? My plan was to start conservative but a conservative effort in combination with the wind was putting me in a really deep hole...and to make matters worse I was upset and having trouble concentrating on pace. I finally pulled myself together during mile 4 and also made a turn so the wind wasn't as bad. I knew I shouldn't try to make up all the time to quickly but I also realized that I would be running the last 3 miles into the wind and would struggle to run at MP and would not be able to make up time. My goal was to be back on pace by the end of mile 7. I was close... I had to dig deep those last 3 miles. When I reached my aid station near the end of mile 9 and realize it was scattered in the wind I was so close to just turning around and running back the easy way. I knew coach Melissa would never know...but I would. I toughed it out. 10 miles @ 10:17. Made it but just! Hope race day magic shows in with full force!!

One more hard week and then a short 2 week taper. I don't know what Melissa has in store for me those last two weeks.

nkrichards Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:16 pm

I got to thinking...

Friday 5th comment after my 16 mile progression run.
I think that's the toughest training run I've ever done. It was definitely harder than any 20 miler I've ever done!

Friday 12th comment after my 14 miler w/10 @ MP
I ran the hardest training run in my life on Friday.

Hmm...I'm seeing a trend here. Shocked

Yes, I think that even though my longest runs have only been 16 miles this is by far the toughest training I've ever done. I'm astounded by the mileage I've been able to handle. I've also been pleasantly surprised that the higher intensity runs are well within my comfort zone. I'm finishing them well within/under goal pace. And I don't think I've had a run that wasn't a negative split in weeks...unless it was an easy run with Janice.

Yesterday was 11 miles w/2 x 3 miles @ MP - 10 (10:08). I ran near the house so that I could set up an aid station on the mailbox and practice grabbing and drinking from a cup. Run went very well. First interval @ 10:06 and second @ 9:54. cheers

And the paces all felt very comfortable.

I have my last long run on Friday (16 miles) at a moderate pace with instructions to practice drinking from cups again. I figured out that I can set up an aid station on a road on the edge of town and then run a figure 8 pattern passing by every 2-3 miles to grab a cup. Shots

Janice is excited to help so is planning to run a couple loops with me. I don't mind running it on my own but I do enjoy the company. I don't want to slow the pace to much but I think that nutrition management is the priority for this run so a slightly slower pace is probably fine.

And then I get to start my short two week taper... geek

I don't know what Melissa has in store for me yet. StirPot

She'll update my plan later this week.

Ultreya...

ounce Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:23 pm

You have emphasized that you're training harder than you ever have, but at shorter distances. I learned a physics formula last week from the guy I follow on YouTube regarding lifting.

F = M +A. Force = Mass + Acceleration. He was using it in the lifting context that you could create more force, thereby getting stronger, by using the same weights but accelerate the reps. (I was never one for science during my school days, rather taking the easy way out and just studying Biology for the times when I had to have a science class.)

Seems like Melissa is using physics on you?

I guess the proof will be in 2 weeks. Regarding today's 16, was your pace your 'moderate' pace? Seems like the run went well or you.

If your leg isn't messing with you too much, then you're golden. Maybe a plain ol' massage from a massage therapist could help you out. Just tell the person where your aches are.

With all of your practice on your aid station cups, you should be set. I've never used a GU. I just use a cookie because it adds the carbs to get rid of the brain fog, it's not messy, and it tastes great.

Enjoy your TAPERING!!!!

nkrichards Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:03 pm

ounce wrote:You have emphasized that you're training harder than you ever have, but at shorter distances. I learned a physics formula last week from the guy I follow on YouTube regarding lifting.

F = M +A. Force = Mass + Acceleration. He was using it in the lifting context that you could create more force, thereby getting stronger, by using the same weights but accelerate the reps. (I was never one for science during my school days, rather taking the easy way out and just studying Biology for the times when I had to have a science class.)

Seems like Melissa is using physics on you?

I guess the proof will be in 2 weeks. Regarding today's 16, was your pace your 'moderate' pace? Seems like the run went well or you.

If your leg isn't messing with you too much, then you're golden. Maybe a plain ol' massage from a massage therapist could help you out. Just tell the person where your aches are.

With all of your practice on your aid station cups, you should be set. I've never used a GU. I just use a cookie because it adds the carbs to get rid of the brain fog, it's not messy, and it tastes great.

Enjoy your TAPERING!!!!

Interesting analysis Doug. I do think that my SOS (Something of Substance) runs are harder. My long runs are shorter but harder. And then there are A LOT more easy miles than I've ever done before. It seems Melissa is approaching adaptation from all angles. Hopefully it will result in a good race. I've enjoyed my training.

My 16 miler a week ago Friday went very well. Pace 11:12 (suggested/moderate pace is considered 11:17-12:47) Pretty happy with that. I kept the first 5-6 well below that as I was running with Janice and Nailon. They dropped off and Chuck jumped in for the next 5. We pushed the pace. I hung on to that for the last loop and then finished with a 10:28 mile. HR 147/165 and Cadence 157. Nothing to crow about but still a very nice run. And the nutrition practice worked really well.

Squeezed in an easy 4 miles @ 11:29 on Saturday before heading to Odell lake with the 6 oldest grandkids. We had a really fun time with them.

We got home mid-day on Monday but I wanted to attend a memorial service so had to postpone my planned run. Mark was only 67 and an active and by all appearances healthy member of the agriculture community. Reports are mixed at this point...stroke or heart attack. He did have family history of heart issues and so was being monitored and taking a pretty high dose of statin. He was also recently vaccinated. It was a tough loss for the community. Mark officially retired 6 weeks ago.

Tuesday was an 8 mile run w/6 @ MP (10:18) Tempo portion @ 10:15 HR 149/160 Cad 158

Wednesday We were visiting friends in Eastern Oregon Tues/Wed but I needed to make up my Monday run. Plan was 4 easy miles. The loop Patti recommended turned into a long 5 but I eased off the pace for the later miles when I realized it was going to be longer than planned. Finished up with 5 @ 11:22 HR 140/153 Cad 155 and then a cool down walk up the long driveway.

Thursday 4 @ 11:11 HR 141/161 Cad 156

Friday 10 @ 11:05 HR 147/160 Cad 155 Probably a bit faster than Melissa would have liked but it felt good and she didn't scold me.

Saturday 4 mile recovery run @ 11:43 HR 136/150 Cad 152 before heading to town to watch Royce wrestle.

***
I've been to busy with family and holiday stuff to stress over tapering. Guess that's a good thing.

Leg is feeling okay...not perfect but good enough that I'm not going to mess with it. It loosens up quickly when I run and feels good until I quit moving then tightens up again. It mainly hurts when I sit in the car. I had planned to fly to the race but Alaska changed their flight schedules and reduced the number of flights...and Portland has been experiencing a lot of delays. So I cancelled my flight and the plan is to drive down (8 hours) on Friday. We'll leave early and make lots of stops to stretch my legs.

I have a hotel booked in the downtown area near the finish line. I'll be able to walk to race provided transportation on race morning and then walk to my hotel after I finish.

I have to show proof of a negative COVID test before I'm allowed to pick up my bib. Tests were hard to get in our area a few weeks ago but they opened up a new testing site that will allow testing for travel/entertainment purposes (no symptoms) so I should be fine.

Race day weather is predicted to be a low or 45 and a high of 59 with winds of 4 mph. Can't complain to much about that. I prefer cooler temps but hopefully I'll be finished before it gets to warm. It could be worse...and it may get worse. Wink

Marty is driving me down. Janice and Chuck have grandkids that live nearby so they plan to visit them that weekend and cheer me on at mile 20. They have been so supportive during my training!

Very easy week next week. I will admit that I'm a bit nervous about not going longer than 16...and was very tempted to stretch my last long run. But I do feel stronger and more prepared than I've ever felt going into a race.

Here's hoping race day magic shows up and carries me up and over my own personal Heartbreak Hill (mile 20) and to the finish line in good form.

Ultreya...

ounce Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:58 pm

I think it was a year ago when you were contemplating doing a Full, but were concerned about how the family will take your decision. How has that part of the 'sell job' to get them on board worked out?

As far as time, what was your goal for this race when you brought Melissa on board?

I think you'll do well, overall. If it ends up being cloudy, that 45 to 59 degree day will be quite nice for you.

Whatever you think, chop chop, nancy.

nkrichards Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:32 pm

ounce wrote:I think it was a year ago when you were contemplating doing a Full, but were concerned about how the family will take your decision. How has that part of the 'sell job' to get them on board worked out?

As far as time, what was your goal for this race when you brought Melissa on board?

I think you'll do well, overall. If it ends up being cloudy, that 45 to 59 degree day will be quite nice for you.

Whatever you think, chop chop, nancy.

Interesting questions Doug.

I signed on with Melissa the last week of February. I had been contemplating another full after realizing how much I loved and missed just running. I knew that Michele had signed on with Melissa at Luke Humphrey Running. I listened to one of Luke's podcasts which talked about long range goals...as in 2-3 years out. I decided that I could safely commit to another full if I made it a long range goal and had some supervision...part of the "sell job" to myself as well as to family.

When I signed on I was already signed up for a half in August. It was a 2020 race that had been postponed and then rescheduled and it wasn't a goal race...just a fun one to run with Janice. My thought was that I would work toward a goal half this fall and then another half or possibly a practice marathon in the spring with a goal marathon in the fall of 2022.

As you can see I/we did not stick to my initial plan. My BQ time is 4:35 (for Boston 2023 or later when I'll be 65 years old). So I told Melissa my goal was to run 4:30 in 2023. We used that goal to set all my paces. I was amazed at the times I was able to run in shorter races and in training. I handled the mileage and the SOS workouts that Melissa threw at me well. Other than a poor performance at the August half...very hot and a more difficult course than I realized...I performed very well. My 5K and 10K results indicated I could run a faster marathon so Melissa gave me a bit more leeway during my training runs but we stuck to the 4:30 goal. We realized relatively quickly that I could be ready for a practice full this fall so I went a head and registered for CIM. I soon realized that even though it wasn't discussed openly we were both talking about CIM as a goal race. That said I do realize that even though I've had a stellar training cycle I'm still going to need some race magic to get me across the finish line in 4:30. I haven't yet been able to mentally tackle mile 20 successfully. That's my biggest barrier. There is still a chance that I'll freak out at mile 20 as I did in 2016 and 2017. But I do feel much better trained and much more confident. I now have the full support of Dr. B rather than the tentative support I had then. And I have a TON of miles this year! No 20 milers but a ton of cumulative miles and this program is all about cumulative fatigue. If things go well on race day I have no doubt I'm capable of finishing in 4:30. If not, then I'm still ahead of my original plan and I can still reach my goal of running a 4:30 full in 2022. We'll figure that out after the race.

As far as family support. Katie is on board and ready to go anywhere with me to provide race support. Marty is outwardly much more supportive than he's ever been in the past. I think he now realizes how important it is to me and he doesn't mind reminding me that running improves my mood. He's much more willing to work around my running schedule when necessary. He understands that I'm doing my best to do this safely. But...I know that he is a bit nervous and I understand that . Mark's (local farmer) death at the age of 67 a couple weeks ago didn't help. It was initially reported as a heart attack. The story now seems to be that it was a stroke. His wife is convinced it was caused by his recent COVID vaccination. We'll never know for sure. What we do know is that sometimes things happen. It's called "life". So we'll head to Sacramento early Friday morning. Marty will do his best to be supportive and I'll do my best to be appreciative and recognize he's in a tough spot but willing to be there for me. We'll talk about what comes next after we've both had some time to recover.

***

Current weather forecast for race day is low of 45 and high of 59 with winds at 4 mph. Partly cloudy.

I found a couple Italian restaurants that get decent reviews. They are out of the downtown area...closer to the race start. We both thought it would be nice to get out of the city for a couple hours. I'll make a reservation after I talk to Janice as we would love it if they would join us for my pre-race dinner but I also don't want to take them away from their time with family.

Still working on my COVID test appointment. Should be able to find out more on Monday.

bounce

ounce Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:09 pm

Just race your training.

Maybe make a bet with Marty about your 20-phobia. If you freak out at mile 20 (or anywhere else on the course), you do X. If you don't freak out at mile 20, he does Y. And it's got to be something bigger than the freak.

When I was 7 or 8 and visited the doc for a sore throat, I would get a shot of penicillin. And I cried after the shot. My mom was tired of that and she usually didn't make deals. But she did, this time. If I didn't cry after the shot, she would buy me KFC for lunch. Food was currency, to me. I agreed.

The next time to the doc, I reminded her about our bet. She knew. I got the shot. I whimpered and growled, but I didn't cry. KFC for me! cheers

Make your bets.

nkrichards Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:47 pm

ounce wrote:Just race your training.

Maybe make a bet with Marty about your 20-phobia. If you freak out at mile 20 (or anywhere else on the course), you do X. If you don't freak out at mile 20, he does Y. And it's got to be something bigger than the freak.

When I was 7 or 8 and visited the doc for a sore throat, I would get a shot of penicillin. And I cried after the shot. My mom was tired of that and she usually didn't make deals. But she did, this time. If I didn't cry after the shot, she would buy me KFC for lunch. Food was currency, to me. I agreed.

The next time to the doc, I reminded her about our bet. She knew. I got the shot. I whimpered and growled, but I didn't cry. KFC for me!

Make your bets.

I like your idea but I think it's a bit late in the game. Marty already lost the bet...he's going to Sacramento to support me and if I run well he loses again as I get to register for Boston 2023. It's a win-win for me...register for Boston...or train for another. confused

I did promise Katie that if she went along as my support person I would make sure she got (new) toasted cheese sandwiches to replace the ones she abandoned when Mass General called. Next race I guess.

This process has been a huge win for me. I've loved training. I'm quite pleased and proud of where I'm at. No matter what happens on Sunday just the training has been a huge accomplishment. I've logged 1565.77 miles and enjoyed most of them. I smashed last years total mileage (1145) and that was a significant increase over my previous high of 976 miles in 2017. Guess I took the cumulative fatigue theory seriously.

BTW...the grandkids are all sick. I've been staying away from them since Saturday when they started coughing and dripping snot. Negative COVID tests so that's good news. I started taking vitamin D and zinc a few weeks ago. I've added Emergen-C this week. I do have a scratchy throat but nothing serious yet...

Julie Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:00 pm

I hope you're healthy and feeling good and it looks like today is the day! (right?) Whatever happened/happens, you did a great job training and I hope you're very satisfied.

nkrichards Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:50 pm

Julie wrote:I hope you're healthy and feeling good and it looks like today is the day! (right?) Whatever happened/happens, you did a great job training and I hope you're very satisfied.

Thanks Julie. The race was what it was. Still processing even after several days. Proud of myself in so many ways yet bitterly disappointed in my finish.

Onward!

nkrichards Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:02 pm

So...I apologize for not checking in for so long after my race. I'm struggling to recover both mentally and physically.

I won't post much about my race. It's in my VERY long race report. Splits are available on Strava...I think most of you have probably seen them.

This race really took a lot out of me! I've never had so much trouble recovering! I left everything I had on the race course. And my cold got worse after the race and is still not totally gone.

I am very proud of myself in so many ways. I'm still struggling to accept my finish time. I have to keep reminding myself to put it into the proper perspective. I'm old. I'm making a comeback that will take time and effort. I'm making progress.

The first week after my race I did not run at all. I walked...a little. I joined Janice at her Thursday night exercise class and even though I modified I did more than I should so had to dial back my activities on Friday and Saturday. We did a couple short, easy hikes on Saturday. That felt good.

This week I started running a bit. Melissa recommended 20-30 minutes. I ended up running 2.75 miles on both Monday (@11:31) and Tuesday (@11:24). Both runs took a bit longer than 30 minutes. Tuesday felt harder. Wednesday(yesterday) we did a strength workout. I was sore this morning but not terrible. Melissa suggested 20-45 minutes for today. I ran 3.5 miles @11:24 for a total of 40 minutes. Felt a bit tight but not to bad.

I'll work with Melissa to figure out a plan moving forward. It will include another marathon.

For now I'll try to survive the holidays and continue to ramp up my running as I'm able.

Merry Christmas

Julie Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:14 pm

Merry Christmas! Congratulations on finishing! I'm sorry your time wasn't what you had hoped for. I definitely have been there. But a lot of the experience is in the training, too, it's a whole package, and you did very well with your training, as far as I could see. And then you kind of get what you get on race day, I think.

nkrichards Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:12 pm

Julie wrote:Merry Christmas! Congratulations on finishing! I'm sorry your time wasn't what you had hoped for. I definitely have been there. But a lot of the experience is in the training, too, it's a whole package, and you did very well with your training, as far as I could see. And then you kind of get what you get on race day, I think.

Thanks Julie. And Merry Christmas to you and your family. I am very proud of what I achieved during training and to a certain extent on race day as well. When I'm able to put the finish time in perspective it was actually not bad. I'm just struggling to transition from striving for a 4:05 marathon to a 4:35 marathon.

***

Ran with Janice and a new friend on Friday. We talked the entire time and logged 4 miles @ 11:47.

I was on the other side of the mountain...the wet side...on Saturday. I was able to sneak away for a 5 mile run @11:48 while avoiding slick spots, puddles, and goose poop. I spent most of the time lost and wondering where the path would take me.

I cooked an early Christmas dinner for both our Mom's on Sunday. It was challenging to cook in a VRBO but it worked well and it was easier for them as they didn't have to travel so far. Katie & Will and Casey & Barb joined us but we kept it small so that Mom didn't get lost in the conversation. It was good.

Monday was a busy day packing up, errands, and driving home.

Tuesday we caught up on our 12 Days of Fitmas doing days 6,7, and 8. It took 35 minutes and was quite challenging. I met Janice at the park but it was a bit icy and she was struggling. We kept it pretty slow and cut back on our distance goal. 4 miles @ 12:33.

I wasn't feeling great when I woke up Wednesday morning but we did days 9 & 10 of Fitmas. It took 25-30 minutes. I felt a bit better after the workout but then got to feeling pretty crummy. I kept hoping I would feel better but finally gave up and soaked in the tub and spent the afternoon on the couch in front of the fire.

An early bedtime and a bit of a sleep in this morning seemed to help a bit but I still don't feel great. If I'm up to it I'll head out for a short easy run later today. My hope it that I was just tired and stressed. My fear is that I've picked up COVID or ?? I'd like to get some fresh air and see if that helps.

Merry Christmas to all...

nkrichards Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:49 pm

MERRY CHRISTMAS santa

***

I did feel better as the day progressed on Thursday and ended up running 4 miles @ 10:46. The fresh air felt good and it felt good to move!

Friday started with Day 11 of 12 Days of Fitmas. I snuck out after it warmed up a bit and the small snow shower blew through for a chilly 5 miles @ 11:19.

We finished 12 Days of Fitmas this morning. The 12 Days was kind of fun and more challenging than I expected.

12 High Knees
11 Mountain Climbers Total of 22
10 Squats Total of 30
9 Push ups Total of 36
8 Forward Lunges Total of 40(each side)
7 Tricep Dips Total of 42
6 Star Jumps Total of 42
5 50 second Side Plank (each side) Total of 13:20
4 40 Crunches Total of 360
3 30 Jumping Jacks Total of 300
2 2 min Plank Total of 22:00
1 1 min Wall Sit Total of 12:00

I plan to head out for a run a bit later. The kids are all traveling so Marty and I are home alone. I made a reservation for dinner and a room at a historic hotel about an hour north of here. (Balch Hotel in Dufur) We'll head out this afternoon and should be home by shortly after lunch tomorrow. I'll try and run tomorrow as well. It dawned on me that the run I skipped on Wednesday was the first run I wasn't able to reschedule and complete during the assigned week since I signed on with Melissa. If I can run today and tomorrow I'll be back on track. Not willing to start cutting corners!!

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and an active New Year...

Michele "1L" Keane Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:59 am

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Hope you have finally recovered - it took me a lot longer after Boston (and my IM) this year than normal, but I'm finally feeling better running again which is good.

So happy to read that you are going to train and go for it again - yay.

I'm still following here - so keep posting.

nkrichards Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:03 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Hope you have finally recovered - it took me a lot longer after Boston (and my IM) this year than normal, but I'm finally feeling better running again which is good.

So happy to read that you are going to train and go for it again - yay.

I'm still following here - so keep posting.

I am finally starting to feel better running. It's been a longer/harder recovery than in the past. Old age? Leaving it on the course? Anyway looking forward to getting back into a training routine. I love having a plan!

Speaking of plans...I've been trying to give Melissa some personal time during the holidays but plan to have a discussion with her during the next few days to set some goals for 2022. It will include a marathon training cycle...just not sure when and where.

CIM One option is just to put some miles on my legs and enjoy some local shorter events with the goal of training hard for another shot at CIM in December. Part of me is concerned about maintaining motivation for a full year...and putting all my eggs in one basket. I know the course. It's a good...fast...course. Logistics aren't terrible.
Eugene May 1st A few local friends have run this race and it comes highly recommended. They are changing the course slightly but I think it will be similar...relatively flat but with rollers...just like my training routes. It finishes in the new stadium which would be exciting...although I've been warned that transitioning to the track is difficult. It would be well supported and would have moderate spectator support. It's only a 3 hour drive so logistics would be easy. I would be building on the base I currently have. BUT...I'm not sure that gives me enough time to recover and adequately train...especially if we have a tough winter here. And I'm a Beaver fan...not a Duck.
Newport June 4th The same friends that ran Eugene also ran Newport. Different event but also highly recommended. This would give me an additional 5 weeks to train. I could possibly use Eugene for a test half. The first few miles are up and down and around but then it settles into the road along the bay for a pancake flat out and back. There is a small hill (40') in the last mile that would be tough. I'm a bit concerned about the pancake flat course. I would struggle to find a training route without rollers and they give my legs a break. Katie is voicing her preference for this race...we both love the coast. It's small with very little spectator support but Katie could meet me at a couple spots with encouragement and a bottle. 4 hour drive so not to much longer than Eugene. It could be raining...but then again it might rain in Eugene.

As you can tell, I'm struggling to decide. I'll be honest. I want to get in and train and race again sooner rather than later. But I don't want to rush into another race unprepared and then end up disappointed and discouraged. I have to accept the fact that I'm getting older and I can't ask to much of this old body. But I can also say that I'm getting older and shouldn't wait to long. If I plan to run in the spring/early summer I have a couple options to choose from...including waiting till December if I get sick or don't feel ready. If I wait till December my options are more limited. I guess if I'm going to work with Melissa then I need to...and will...listen to her advice.

***
Christmas As mentioned previously, I started the day with day 12 of 12 Days of Fitmas. Headed out for 6.2 miles @ 11:13 once it warmed up a bit. We did head up to the historic hotel. It was nice...pretty much what we expected for a small old hotel in a small country town. We were the only ones there for dinner. It was nice. Breakfast was simple but adequate. My spa treatment wasn't really a massage...more of an essential oil rub but it was relaxing. It was a nice quiet Christmas.

Sunday 4 miles @ 11:18 after we got home from the hotel.

Monday We decided to start a new strength training program. Marty has been anxious to get going. I've been stalling as I recover. Anyway...it's called 645. It's 6 days a week and 45 minutes per day. It's a nice mix of workouts and includes a good warmup and cooldown but I'm a bit concerned about trying to do that much in addition to my running. We'll cut back and just do 3-4 days per week and just stretch it out if it starts to be to much. Marty doesn't do any other exercise...other than working. He's been supportive of my running so I want to support him. The first day was Lower Body Strength.

Finished the day with 4 miles @ 11:22.

Tuesday Started the morning 645 Total Body Power. Waited till it warmed up a bit to run 6.2 @ 11:37. Definitely feeling the effect of adding in the strength work.

Wednesday So far I've managed to fit my runs in when the weather/roads have been safe enough. Glad today is a rest day as we got fresh snow overnight and it's currently 16 with a wind chill of 2. affraid

I hate the dreadmill...not sure I can manage more than 3-4 miles indoors. The internet was down this morning so we weren't able to workout. We'll try and do it later today if Marty is willing. It's hare to get him out of his work clothes once he puts them on. It's an easy day. Mobility and Stablility. It would be a good option for me.

Ultreya...

Sponsored content