Term Limits?

Ahhhhh, 72 degrees this morning.  Wish it was cooler.  Oh well.  I am hoping my errant 1 mile run doesn't hinder this morning's run.  (It didn't)

164 cadence.

4 miles, 53:15, 13:17 pace, 134 avg bpm, 147 max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:37, 2nd half pace 12:57
1.  14:02, 122 bpm, 162 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:03, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:29, 139 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  12:32, 143 bpm, 163 spm, 78 sl

HR zones
0-119        2:39
120-139   32:11
140-147   17:49

I had no idea I was recording another sub-13, this morning.  I was sure my cadence was lower than 163 for pieces of the 2nd half.  Guess not.  Even the Polar recorded an 82 for cadence (164 spm). 

I did try something today and will work on doing it more often.  Stride length.  I'm working on extending the stride in spots, like between light poles.  Like a fartlek.  Once I get the fanny muscles used to it, then I can work it for longer periods.  2 light poles, for example.  I think that's why I registered a 78 on the last mile.

I wasn't concerned with the HR, as long as I kept the cadence.  And Monday's short run didn't affect today's run.

HR was better than Friday's 4 with a similar temp.  Thanks for looking.  Google appreciates it.

Here is last Friday's run when it was 74 degrees---
4 miles, 52:57, 13:14 pace,141 avg HR, 155 max HR, 163 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:30, 2nd half pace 12:58
1.  13:53, 126 bpm, 163 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:06, 140 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:14, 148 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  12:42, 151 bpm, 161 spm, 77 sl

HR zone
0-119       1:19
120-139  18:26
140-155  32:41

I'm curious how the melatonin experiment goes.  Keep us posted.

Nice run yesterday.  I think lengthening your stride is a good option for increasing your pace.  You've got the cadence and HR dialed in pretty well.  As you said if you can hold your cadence and increase your stride length a bit you'll increase your pace.  If the HR goes up a bit now it will probably settle back down as training progresses and your body becomes accustomed to the new request you're asking it to do.

nkrichards wrote:I'm curious how the melatonin experiment goes.  Keep us posted.

Nice run yesterday.  I think lengthening your stride is a good option for increasing your pace.  You've got the cadence and HR dialed in pretty well.  As you said if you can hold your cadence and increase your stride length a bit you'll increase your pace.  If the HR goes up a bit now it will probably settle back down as training progresses and your body becomes accustomed to the new request you're asking it to do.

Thanks, Nancy.  I have no idea what I am looking for but something assisting the mitochondria in every muscle.

Yes, Nancy, my thoughts too on the running.

-30-

I only got a mile and a third, today.  It was 77 degrees, but I think it was the pint of Intense Chocolate ice cream, last night.  But it was $1.48!!   I'll try again tomorrow.

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:I'm curious how the melatonin experiment goes.  Keep us posted.

Nice run yesterday.  I think lengthening your stride is a good option for increasing your pace.  You've got the cadence and HR dialed in pretty well.  As you said if you can hold your cadence and increase your stride length a bit you'll increase your pace.  If the HR goes up a bit now it will probably settle back down as training progresses and your body becomes accustomed to the new request you're asking it to do.

Thanks, Nancy.  I have no idea what I am looking for but something assisting the mitochondria in every muscle.

Yes, Nancy, my thoughts too on the running.

-30-

I only got a mile and a third, today.  It was 77 degrees, but I think it was the pint of Intense Chocolate ice cream, last night.  But it was $1.48!!   I'll try again tomorrow.

My family plans our vacations around ice cream.  

Never tried that.  I'm told the ice cream store at Penn State is to die for.

-30-

Today, the goal was to finish 4 miles.  164 cadence and another 76 degrees, outside.  I took 36 mg of melatonin (1/64th of a teaspoon or 1/8th of 1/8th of a teaspoon). 

4 miles, 57:03, 14:14 pace, 130 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 155 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length, 1st half 14:04, 2nd half 14:24
1.  14:15, 123 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:53, 132 bpm, 158 spm, 74 sl
3.  14:11, 133 bpm, 151 spm, 74 sl
4.  14:36, 133 bpm, 149 spm, 73 sl

Hmm, me thinks that I'm not acclimated, yet.  On the bright side, I'm still in the 14's so that's a good thing.  You should see the cadence graph.  All the good green dots look like a pier stretching over the water, part ways.  Then the bad yellow and red dots represents a swimmer in the water, never to get back onto the pier.  The end of the pier was 1.43 miles.

The melatonin was transparent.

One thing, Nancy, as I was getting through the miles.  We know that HR decreases, as it gets comfortable at the same pace.  But is that the same with cadence?  As your legs get comfortable at a certain cadence, can cadence be maintained without a gnome, then increased.  In cooler weather, I couldn't maintain the 164 without the gnome, as the miles go by.  So, I'm not sure, but you've settled into a consistent cadence without the gnome.  Just a question.

10 miles for the week.  Y'all have a good, long weekend or some semblance of one.  Thanks.

ounce wrote:Never tried that.  I'm told the ice cream store at Penn State is to die for.

-30-

Today, the goal was to finish 4 miles.  164 cadence and another 76 degrees, outside.  I took 36 mg of melatonin (1/64th of a teaspoon or 1/8th of 1/8th of a teaspoon). 

4 miles, 57:03, 14:14 pace, 130 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 155 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length, 1st half 14:04, 2nd half 14:24
1.  14:15, 123 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:53, 132 bpm, 158 spm, 74 sl
3.  14:11, 133 bpm, 151 spm, 74 sl
4.  14:36, 133 bpm, 149 spm, 73 sl

Hmm, me thinks that I'm not acclimated, yet.  On the bright side, I'm still in the 14's so that's a good thing.  You should see the cadence graph.  All the good green dots look like a pier stretching over the water, part ways.  Then the bad yellow and red dots represents a swimmer in the water, never to get back onto the pier.  The end of the pier was 1.43 miles.

The melatonin was transparent.

One thing, Nancy, as I was getting through the miles.  We know that HR decreases, as it gets comfortable at the same pace.  But is that the same with cadence?  As your legs get comfortable at a certain cadence, can cadence be maintained without a gnome, then increased.  In cooler weather, I couldn't maintain the 164 without the gnome, as the miles go by.  So, I'm not sure, but you've settled into a consistent cadence without the gnome.  Just a question.

10 miles for the week.  Y'all have a good, long weekend or some semblance of one.  Thanks.

We plan our vacations and then look for good ice cream opportunities in the locations where we'll be.  My parents are/were the worst offenders best at it.  We didn't travel much when I was growing up but when we did we had a late big breakfast at a greasy cafe, stopped for ice cream early in the afternoon, and finished the day with a burger or something at another greasy spoon.  We thought road trips were great as we didn't even have to ask for ice cream. 

Looks like the warm temps gave you a hard time.  Good for you for finishing your 4 even though it got hard.

Your question on cadence is interesting and I was thinking about it the other day.  As you know I found the gnome very annoying and only used it a dozen times over a three week period.  I don't have great data about my cadence prior to that...I've gone back and looked at a few runs but not to many.  My guess is that I've increased my cadence 3-5 beats.  I'm thinking my cadence for faster runs was 159-160 and now I'm recording 162-164.  But on slower, easier effort runs I was probably in the 155-157 range and I'm still below 160 for those slower runs.  So it does change depending on my pace and effort for the run.

I'm surprised to see the increase in cadence after spending such a short time with the gnome but I do remember reading an article that recommended using it for a couple runs each month or so but not using it all the time.  Anyway...I find myself counting my breathing which for me serves the purpose of also counting my steps.  I'm learning how to keep my cadence up but also how to control my effort/HR by controlling my breathing.  It's a work in progress and I'm definitely not a master yet.  I do find my mind wandering at times...which isn't a bad thing as it allows me to enjoy the views etc.  Outside influences such as the heat, wind etc are a factor as is my mental state as evidenced by my inability to keep my pace/effort low the last couple days when I've been up on jiggle before my run even started.  It is interesting and at times overwhelming.

Love the analogy of the pier and the swimmer...

Have a great weekend.

Isn't it fun examining things that may or may not have a durn thing to do with running.

One thing that I've found out about melatonin is that it increases the production of ATP in the heart and everywhere else.
I read a paper this morning that ATP production slows, the older you get.  Now, I haven't found if ATP production slows in an active old person.  But I'm taking 36 mg of bulk melatonin about 5 minutes before I run.  Does it keep me going in these humid times?  I will stop taking it in a week or so to see if effort or splits change.

I ran this morning.  5 miles.  78 degrees.  The pier was longer on this run.  I'll post the splits later.

As previously reported, I ran 5 miles this morning.  And it was 78 degrees with a cadence set at 164.  There were showers in the area, but never touched me.  However, the remnants of a collapsed rain cell did caused the only breezes from time to time.  The breezes are the last exhale of a rain cell.

I had 4 miles in my mind. But since it was the 1st run of the week, I was leaning more to 5, even if my cadence was reduced and the pace was plodding.  I left at 6 a.m.  Dawn was about to break and I finished the run with the sun casting a shadow at 4.13 miles.  I caught the light of the day for the whole run, without the heat of the sun finding me.  A nice twist.

5 miles, 1:09:56, 13:59 pace, 136 avg bpm, 147 max bpm, 156 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length
1.  14:22, 122 bpm, 163 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:26, 134 bpm, 161 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:51, 140 bpm, 158 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:54, 140 bpm, 149 spm, 77 sl
5.  14:08, 142 bpm, 149 spm, 76 sl

HR zones
0-119        2:57
120-139   35:11
140-147   31:20

Continuing the pier analogy of when the cadence jumped into the water, that distance was 2.91 miles which was double what it was on Friday at 1.43 miles.  So, that's a very nice improvement for similar temperatures.

I wrung out my sweatband 3 times, to give you an indication of the water leaving for cooler confines.  However, I wasn't squishing in my shoes, which has generally been something that happens in August.

Oddly enough, I had more 13 minute splits than on Friday's 4 miles.  I just generally felt better doing today's run, even though both runs were in the morning humidity.  One could imply the body is getting acclimated.  I thought that once I was losing cadence that my HR would drop some, but that didn't happen.  It pretty much stayed the same, which is fine because I was looking to go farther down the pier than Friday.  Ding!


4 miles, 57:03, 14:14 pace, 130 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 155 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length, 1st half 14:04, 2nd half 14:24
1.  14:15, 123 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:53, 132 bpm, 158 spm, 74 sl
3.  14:11, 133 bpm, 151 spm, 74 sl
4.  14:36, 133 bpm, 149 spm, 73 sl


Still running without niggles.  Always a good run when that happens, NO matter the time.  Come again.

Running without niggles is always a good thing!

I don't think I've ever done a run as the sun was coming up...maybe I should put that on my wish list.  I often run early in the summer to beat the heat.  But not that early.

Looks like the data shows acclimation to the heat combined with the training effects taking hold.

Nice to see that you were able to get in 5 when your initial goal was 4. 

nkrichards wrote:Running without niggles is always a good thing!

I don't think I've ever done a run as the sun was coming up...maybe I should put that on my wish list.  I often run early in the summer to beat the heat.  But not that early.

Looks like the data shows acclimation to the heat combined with the training effects taking hold.

Nice to see that you were able to get in 5 when your initial goal was 4. 

Oh, I don't get all giddy about it.  The vista I have is nothing to shout about and I try to avoid the sun for its heat.  Now, Mt Hood or something at Yosemite or the Great Smokey Mountains would be better. 

Yeah, doing 5 is a thing I need to do more of so I can stretch and improve, if I can navigate the humidity.  Thanks.



-30-

Odd thing happened, this morning, on the way to run.  The Polar was having a difficult time finding the satellite.  The Polar usually can find the satellite before the Garmin does, but not today.  Even standing still outside with no obstruction help.  It only got as far as 80% (it goes up from zero in 10% increments and at 100% it says 'OK.') when I started off.  The Garmin had found its satellite minutes earlier.

The Polar ended up being two-tenths of a mile behind the Garmin AND was recording some wacky numbers like a 12:55 first mile and a 16:02 3rd mile.  But the HR looked believable.  So, role reversal in believable numbers.  Garmin had the splits, cadence and stride length.  The Polar had the HR.

It was 70 degrees with a dew point of 68.  Not good, but not oppressive.

4 miles, 57:36, 14:23 pace, 121 avg bpm, 129 Max bpm, 154 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length
1.  14:35, 163 spm, 68 sl
2.  13:52, 153 spm, 76 sl
3.  14:35, 150 spm, 73 sl
4.  14:32, 149 spm, 74 sl

HR zones
0-119       11:03
120-129   45:36
The pier distance was 1.03 miles.

Polar was having a bad day.  It only recorded 2 splits.  2 very long splits.

I was very tight in my gluteus and hip flexors.  I stood up a great deal yesterday and I guess this was the result.  There wasn't any pain, just whining.  I guess in this weather, a couple of 14 splits is to be accepted and expected.  Although, I would like to get into the 13's on a consistent basis to debunk my 10+ year postulate that Summer and slow running (15's and 16's) is just part of living in a Houston Summer.

9 miles for the week, so far.

You're putting mileage in the bank Doug.  Some days are going to be better than others...as my run today will confirm.

Every mile you log will pay dividends in the long run.

Well, yeah, I guess that I am.   Doesn't seem that way,  a lot of times, Nancy.  Thanks.

-30-

It was 72 degrees, this morning.  It didn't FEEL bad.  So maybe I am acclimating.

I received a little information about my melatonin experiment.  I was told the doasge was a bit lighter than it should be and to take it an hour earlier, instead of 5 minutes.   All part of the experiment.

I happened to wake up about 90 minutes early and went ahead and took a 72 mg dosage, doubling what I did on Wednesday.  Before bedtime, I take 144 mg.

The idea for running is that ATP production in the mitochondria slows as one ages.  Melatonin increases production.  Melatonin does a lot of things, this just happens to affect running.

Cadence was 164.  Oh, Polar figured out my problem with the data.  I was using the wrong email address.  

4 miles, 53:28, 13:20 pace, 131 avg HR, 146 max HR, 162 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:30, 2nd half pace 13:10
1.  13:47, 118 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl
2.  13:15, 131 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:09, 137 bpm, 162 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:07, 140 bpm, 162 spm, 75 sl

HR zones (different ranges)


Zone 4    144-146
Zone 3    143-126  41:23
Zone 2    108-125
Zone 1       0-107

I was running unexpectedly good, today.  So good, that i thought it had been 3 days since my last run, but it had been 2 (Wednesday).  There were 2 short cadence slow points, but overall this was a good performance as far as cadence.

The pace, too, surprised me.  Just something to wonder about.  Can't give credit to the melatonin. 

13 miles for the week.  Thanks.

It was 74 degrees, this morning.  Humidity registered a 70 degree dew point.  Muggy was the opinion.  I continued the 164 cadence and 72 mg melatonin about 90 minutes before the run.

This was a long run run of either the 5 mile flavor or daring my ability and run 6.  I chose 6 before the run and was hoping to keep going past the 5 mile turnaround.  The weather was appearing not to be my buddy, this morning.

6 miles, 1:27;07, 14:29 pace, 124 avg bpm, 134 max bpm, 156 avg cadence, 70 stride length.
1.  14:19, 117 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:47, 128 bpm, 161 spm, 69 sl
3.  14:45, 124 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl
4.  14:46, 124 bpm, 145 spm, 73 sl
5.  14:43, 124 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl
6.  14:31, 125 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl

HR zones

The pier ended at 1.65 miles.  Found a couple of buoys after 3 and after 5 (meaning I increased cadence for a bit).

HR
Zone 3    126-134  32:19
Zone 2    108-125  53:10
Zone 1       0-107   1:17



As you can see, it wasn't a good run.  But there were two things that I am pleased with.  No splits over 15/mile and I did some fartleks to try to keep my splits under 15 and to see if I can get the cadence up to normal.  The little green dots on the above Cadence graph after miles 3, 4 and 5.

I was glad to have finished, but I think I could've run another half mile.  Squeezed my headband 2 times for sweat.  I didn't have any whining until mile 5, but it was light groaning, rather than anything they were complaining about.

I finished 6.    I'm going to take a nap.  You, too.

I woke up without any stretching necessary, this morning, which is the norm.  I did take a 90 minute nap, yesterday.

This past Friday, I ran 4 miles.  With all of the running that Nancy's been doing and her usually doing a recovery run (unless replaced by a 5 mile regular run), I wondered if I could do a recovery run and what would happen.

So Saturday, I laced them up and set out for a 2 mile recovery run.  It turns out that I was only willing to do a 0.77 mile run.  It could be that I stopped too early.  Maybe I could've done 1.5 miles.

But it poses the question for me, do I need to build up for a recovery run like we do for regular miles?  Chat amongst yourselves.

ounce wrote:It was 74 degrees, this morning.  Humidity registered a 70 degree dew point.  Muggy was the opinion.  I continued the 164 cadence and 72 mg melatonin about 90 minutes before the run.

This was a long run run of either the 5 mile flavor or daring my ability and run 6.  I chose 6 before the run and was hoping to keep going past the 5 mile turnaround.  The weather was appearing not to be my buddy, this morning.

6 miles, 1:27;07, 14:29 pace, 124 avg bpm, 134 max bpm, 156 avg cadence, 70 stride length.
1.  14:19, 117 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:47, 128 bpm, 161 spm, 69 sl
3.  14:45, 124 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl
4.  14:46, 124 bpm, 145 spm, 73 sl
5.  14:43, 124 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl
6.  14:31, 125 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl

HR zones

The pier ended at 1.65 miles.  Found a couple of buoys after 3 and after 5 (meaning I increased cadence for a bit).

HR
Zone 3    126-134  32:19
Zone 2    108-125  53:10
Zone 1       0-107   1:17



As you can see, it wasn't a good run.  But there were two things that I am pleased with.  No splits over 15/mile and I did some fartleks to try to keep my splits under 15 and to see if I can get the cadence up to normal.  The little green dots on the above Cadence graph after miles 3, 4 and 5.

I was glad to have finished, but I think I could've run another half mile.  Squeezed my headband 2 times for sweat.  I didn't have any whining until mile 5, but it was light groaning, rather than anything they were complaining about.

I finished 6.    I'm going to take a nap.  You, too.

I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment that this wasn't a good run.  It was 6 miles.  You can't expect to increase your distance and not see some slide in pace and/or cadence.  The pace was actually probably pretty appropriate.  The cadence will come with time and distance.  The HR was impressive!!  A nap was probably a good choice.

ounce wrote:I woke up without any stretching necessary, this morning, which is the norm.  I did take a 90 minute nap, yesterday.

This past Friday, I ran 4 miles.  With all of the running that Nancy's been doing and her usually doing a recovery run (unless replaced by a 5 mile regular run), I wondered if I could do a recovery run and what would happen.

So Saturday, I laced them up and set out for a 2 mile recovery run.  It turns out that I was only willing to do a 0.77 mile run.  It could be that I stopped too early.  Maybe I could've done 1.5 miles.

But it poses the question for me, do I need to build up for a recovery run like we do for regular miles?  Chat amongst yourselves.

Sometimes the recovery runs are tough at the beginning but I often find that if I can push past the tough start that I settle in and feel pretty good.  Walking wouldn't be a bad choice if you want to work your way up to a recovery type run as an extra run.

So, you've noticed that I'm trying to add in recovery type runs.  I'm sure you know that I've never run more than 3 days a week except on the very rare occasion.  I decided to try something new and chose Hanson's cumulative fatigue theory.  My biggest problem has been running slow enough but I'm realizing that when I run more often and farther I don't have a choice....I can't run fast.  I'm to tired.

I did try and take a few weeks to ramp up from a 3 day a week schedule to a 5-6 day a week schedule.  COVID and a broken bike messed that up a bit and I ramped up pretty quickly.  But I was cautious and really listened to my body...and slowed down.  I can't tell you if I recommend this new strategy yet as I haven't had enough experience to reach a conclusion.

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:It was 74 degrees, this morning.  Humidity registered a 70 degree dew point.  Muggy was the opinion.  I continued the 164 cadence and 72 mg melatonin about 90 minutes before the run.

This was a long run run of either the 5 mile flavor or daring my ability and run 6.  I chose 6 before the run and was hoping to keep going past the 5 mile turnaround.  The weather was appearing not to be my buddy, this morning.

6 miles, 1:27;07, 14:29 pace, 124 avg bpm, 134 max bpm, 156 avg cadence, 70 stride length.
1.  14:19, 117 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:47, 128 bpm, 161 spm, 69 sl
3.  14:45, 124 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl
4.  14:46, 124 bpm, 145 spm, 73 sl
5.  14:43, 124 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl
6.  14:31, 125 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl

HR zones

The pier ended at 1.65 miles.  Found a couple of buoys after 3 and after 5 (meaning I increased cadence for a bit).

HR
Zone 3    126-134  32:19
Zone 2    108-125  53:10
Zone 1       0-107   1:17



As you can see, it wasn't a good run.  But there were two things that I am pleased with.  No splits over 15/mile and I did some fartleks to try to keep my splits under 15 and to see if I can get the cadence up to normal.  The little green dots on the above Cadence graph after miles 3, 4 and 5.

I was glad to have finished, but I think I could've run another half mile.  Squeezed my headband 2 times for sweat.  I didn't have any whining until mile 5, but it was light groaning, rather than anything they were complaining about.

I finished 6.    I'm going to take a nap.  You, too.

I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment that this wasn't a good run.  It was 6 miles.  You can't expect to increase your distance and not see some slide in pace and/or cadence.  The pace was actually probably pretty appropriate.  The cadence will come with time and distance.  The HR was impressive!!  A nap was probably a good choice.

ounce wrote:I woke up without any stretching necessary, this morning, which is the norm.  I did take a 90 minute nap, yesterday.

This past Friday, I ran 4 miles.  With all of the running that Nancy's been doing and her usually doing a recovery run (unless replaced by a 5 mile regular run), I wondered if I could do a recovery run and what would happen.

So Saturday, I laced them up and set out for a 2 mile recovery run.  It turns out that I was only willing to do a 0.77 mile run.  It could be that I stopped too early.  Maybe I could've done 1.5 miles.

But it poses the question for me, do I need to build up for a recovery run like we do for regular miles?  Chat amongst yourselves.

Sometimes the recovery runs are tough at the beginning but I often find that if I can push past the tough start that I settle in and feel pretty good.  Walking wouldn't be a bad choice if you want to work your way up to a recovery type run as an extra run.

So, you've noticed that I'm trying to add in recovery type runs.  I'm sure you know that I've never run more than 3 days a week except on the very rare occasion.  I decided to try something new and chose Hanson's cumulative fatigue theory.  My biggest problem has been running slow enough but I'm realizing that when I run more often and farther I don't have a choice....I can't run fast.  I'm to tired.

I did try and take a few weeks to ramp up from a 3 day a week schedule to a 5-6 day a week schedule.  COVID and a broken bike messed that up a bit and I ramped up pretty quickly.  But I was cautious and really listened to my body...and slowed down.  I can't tell you if I recommend this new strategy yet as I haven't had enough experience to reach a conclusion.

Thanks, Nancy.  For me, it wasn't a good run because I was just running 1 mile further.

Re:  recovery runs, I might have done 3 or 4 in my life, mostly after a really long run, if I woke up stiff.  So, I guess I'll have to work up to doing them, even though I caught the body off guard by running 0.77, then walked back.  I'm so bad to surprise the body.  It could be that after I re-start lifting weights that I won't feel like doing a recovery run.

-30-

Okay.  Tuesday's run.  It was 74 degrees.  The cadence was set at 164 and I took 72 mg melatonin sub-lingually about an hour prior to the run.  The goal was to extend the length of the pier, meaning to go farther at 164.  I know the Summer heat is the factor.

4 miles, 55:59, 13:58 pace, 126 avg bpm, 137 max bpm, 158 avg cadence, 0.73 m stride length
1.  14:24, 116 bpm, 162 spm, 68 sl
2.  13:22, 129 bpm, 162 spm, 75 sl
3.  13:56, 132 bpm, 156 spm, 74 sl
4.  14:11, 129 bpm, 150 spm, 74 sl



Zone 3    126-137
Zone 2    108-125
Zone 1       0-107





Breaking 2 miles on cadence was a satisfying thing and I'll get further before jumping in the water.

Yes, Nancy, another person looking at things from a different angle helps.  Thanks.

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:It was 74 degrees, this morning.  Humidity registered a 70 degree dew point.  Muggy was the opinion.  I continued the 164 cadence and 72 mg melatonin about 90 minutes before the run.

This was a long run run of either the 5 mile flavor or daring my ability and run 6.  I chose 6 before the run and was hoping to keep going past the 5 mile turnaround.  The weather was appearing not to be my buddy, this morning.

6 miles, 1:27;07, 14:29 pace, 124 avg bpm, 134 max bpm, 156 avg cadence, 70 stride length.
1.  14:19, 117 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:47, 128 bpm, 161 spm, 69 sl
3.  14:45, 124 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl
4.  14:46, 124 bpm, 145 spm, 73 sl
5.  14:43, 124 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl
6.  14:31, 125 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl

HR zones

The pier ended at 1.65 miles.  Found a couple of buoys after 3 and after 5 (meaning I increased cadence for a bit).

HR
Zone 3    126-134  32:19
Zone 2    108-125  53:10
Zone 1       0-107   1:17



As you can see, it wasn't a good run.  But there were two things that I am pleased with.  No splits over 15/mile and I did some fartleks to try to keep my splits under 15 and to see if I can get the cadence up to normal.  The little green dots on the above Cadence graph after miles 3, 4 and 5.

I was glad to have finished, but I think I could've run another half mile.  Squeezed my headband 2 times for sweat.  I didn't have any whining until mile 5, but it was light groaning, rather than anything they were complaining about.

I finished 6.    I'm going to take a nap.  You, too.

I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment that this wasn't a good run.  It was 6 miles.  You can't expect to increase your distance and not see some slide in pace and/or cadence.  The pace was actually probably pretty appropriate.  The cadence will come with time and distance.  The HR was impressive!!  A nap was probably a good choice.

ounce wrote:I woke up without any stretching necessary, this morning, which is the norm.  I did take a 90 minute nap, yesterday.

This past Friday, I ran 4 miles.  With all of the running that Nancy's been doing and her usually doing a recovery run (unless replaced by a 5 mile regular run), I wondered if I could do a recovery run and what would happen.

So Saturday, I laced them up and set out for a 2 mile recovery run.  It turns out that I was only willing to do a 0.77 mile run.  It could be that I stopped too early.  Maybe I could've done 1.5 miles.

But it poses the question for me, do I need to build up for a recovery run like we do for regular miles?  Chat amongst yourselves.

Sometimes the recovery runs are tough at the beginning but I often find that if I can push past the tough start that I settle in and feel pretty good.  Walking wouldn't be a bad choice if you want to work your way up to a recovery type run as an extra run.

So, you've noticed that I'm trying to add in recovery type runs.  I'm sure you know that I've never run more than 3 days a week except on the very rare occasion.  I decided to try something new and chose Hanson's cumulative fatigue theory.  My biggest problem has been running slow enough but I'm realizing that when I run more often and farther I don't have a choice....I can't run fast.  I'm to tired.

I did try and take a few weeks to ramp up from a 3 day a week schedule to a 5-6 day a week schedule.  COVID and a broken bike messed that up a bit and I ramped up pretty quickly.  But I was cautious and really listened to my body...and slowed down.  I can't tell you if I recommend this new strategy yet as I haven't had enough experience to reach a conclusion.

Thanks, Nancy.  For me, it wasn't a good run because I was just running 1 mile further.

{I'll finish this post later}

I'm not going to try and convince you that this was a good run but don't discount the increase in distance.  It's a significant % increase...and you don't have a lot of 5 miles runs under your belt recently yet.  Give your body time to adapt before you label this run as "not good".  Remember the reminders you gave me when I was struggling with a high HR while trying to increase my cadence...  Adaptation takes time and repetition.

Today's run.  It was 76 degrees with a dew point of 75 and no breeze.  Took the melatonin one hour before the run.  I'm just happening to wake up an hour before the run.  Target was 4 miles because I just think I need to get more consistent with cadence before advancing to 5.

Hold on to your glasses.  Tuesday's run was 13:58 pace.

4 miles, 52:54, 13:11 pace, 134 avg bpm, 151 max bpm, 162 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length
1.  14:08, 117 bpm, 162 bpm, 70 sl
2.  13:09, 132 bpm, 163 bpm, 75 sl
3.  12:53, 142 bpm, 161 bpm, 78 sl
4.  12:36, 147 bpm, 160 bpm, 79 sl



Zone 4    144-151
Zone 3    126-143
Zone 2    108-125
Zone 1       0-107



What did I do differently?  And why didn't I do it on Tuesday, or any other day for that matter?

When I started stumbling at mile 1, I wasn't happy.  Then I said something like, "Fugg it."  I decided to do all I could to keep the cadence, until I started hurting.  HR be damned (not that I do that a lot), but I wanted to go, go, go and see what happens.  And the above is what happened.

I found out the heart didn't mind it in the least.  I found out the lungs were caught off guard during mile 2, but fell in sync afterwards with a consistent rhythm.  The legs were agreeable.  They slacked a bit, but I kicked them in the ribs and kept going.  They did, too.

I never was out of breath, although during 2 they were breathing a 5K breath rate, but that settle back to a slower rate.  My right hip flexor was tight again for about a half mile.  Maybe that was why the mile 1 stride length was 69, but it loosened up.

I guess I had it in me all the time, just waiting to let it go, yet never did.  I wouldn't say it's the melatonin, but I'd love to.   Maybe next week I will d/c the melatonin to see what happens.

A very, very nice run.  14 miles for the week.  I won't be running, this weekend, so next Monday will be another 6 miles on 3 days rest.

ounce wrote:Today's run.  It was 76 degrees with a dew point of 75 and no breeze.  Took the melatonin one hour before the run.  I'm just happening to wake up.  Target was 4 miles because I just think I need to get more consistent with cadence before advancing to 5.

Hold on to your glasses.  Tuesday's run was 13:58 pace.

4 miles, 52:54, 13:11 pace, 134 avg bpm, 151 max bpm, 162 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length
1.  14:08, 117 bpm, 162 bpm, 70 sl
2.  13:09, 132 bpm, 163 bpm, 75 sl
3.  12:53, 142 bpm, 161 bpm, 78 sl
4.  12:36, 147 bpm, 160 bpm, 79 sl



Zone 4    144-151
Zone 3    126-143
Zone 2    108-125
Zone 1       0-107



What did I do differently?  And why didn't I do it on Tuesday, or any other day for that matter?

When I started stumbling at mile 1, I wasn't happy.  Then I said something like, "Fugg it."  I decided to do all I could to keep the cadence, until I started hurting.  HR be damned (not that I do that a lot), but I wanted to go, go, go and see what happens.  And the above is what happened.

I found out the heart didn't mind it in the least.  I found out the lungs were caught off guard during mile 2, but fell in sync afterwards with a consistent rhythm.  The legs were agreeable.  They slacked a bit, but I kicked them in the ribs and kept going.  They did, too.

I never was out of breath, although during 2 they were breathing a 5K breath rate, but that settle back to a slower rate.  My right hip flexor was tight again for about a half mile.  Maybe that was why the mile 1 stride length was 69, but it loosened up.

I guess I had it in me all the time, just waiting to let it go, yet never did.  I wouldn't say it's the melatonin, but I'd love to.   Maybe next week I will d/c the melatonin to see what happens.

A very, very nice run.  14 miles for the week.  I won't be running, this weekend, so next Monday will be another 6 miles on 3 days rest.

Nice!  Good to see that you pushed through the tough times.  And you may have figured HR be damned but it was still pretty decent.  Very decent considering the pace!

Time for a couple easy runs now while your body recovers and prepares for the next WOW run.

Nice week.  Enjoy the weekend.  I'll watch for your 6 mile report on Monday.

Thanks, Nancy.  Just had to change my mindset on how to run without a lot of concern with HR.

-30-

It was 80 degrees, this morning.  That's right, seventy-ten degrees with a soupy air mass included at no extra charge.  I set the cadence at 164 and thought to bring some water with me.  I did not, which was an error, but not a tragic error.

6 miles, 1:21:43, 13:36 pace, 133 avg HR, 146 max HR, 161 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  14:17, 119 bpm, 162 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:32, 130 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:36, 133 bpm, 163 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:26, 136 bpm, 160 spm, 75 sl
5.  13:09, 136 bpm, 159 spm, 77 sl
6.  13:38, 140 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl


HR zones
zone 4 - 144-146
zone 3 - 126-143
zone 2 - 109-125
zone 1 - 0-108




I am pleased with the overall run, especially hanging on to the pace from about 3.75 miles to the end, when the cadence dropped.  All of those random orange and red dots up to mile 5, I felt.  I knew them and tried to compensate.  The last half mile was especially interesting, as I was faltering for lack of water, which I would've loved at mile 4.  Mouth dry, just a teensy weensy bit light headed (but I'll deny it) in the final half mile.  But I was still sweating!  I squeezed the headband twice, today. 

All those 13 splits in 80 degree weather is quite nice.  To run 6 miles in 80 degree weather at a 13:36 avg pace is remarkable.  Let's compare today's 6 to last week's 6 at 74 degrees.  Guess pushing it will be a good thing after all.

6 miles, 1:27;07, 14:29 pace, 124 avg bpm, 134 max bpm, 156 avg cadence, 70 stride length.
1.  14:19, 117 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:47, 128 bpm, 161 spm, 69 sl
3.  14:45, 124 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl
4.  14:46, 124 bpm, 145 spm, 73 sl
5.  14:43, 124 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl
6.  14:31, 125 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl


Thanks for observing the merchandise.

Looking great!

BTW, can you message me your phone number? I need it to set up zelle.

ounce wrote:Thanks, Nancy.  Just had to change my mindset on how to run without a lot of concern with HR.

-30-

It was 80 degrees, this morning.  That's right, seventy-ten degrees with a soupy air mass included at no extra charge.  I set the cadence at 164 and thought to bring some water with me.  I did not, which was an error, but not a tragic error.

6 miles, 1:21:43, 13:36 pace, 133 avg HR, 146 max HR, 161 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  14:17, 119 bpm, 162 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:32, 130 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:36, 133 bpm, 163 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:26, 136 bpm, 160 spm, 75 sl
5.  13:09, 136 bpm, 159 spm, 77 sl
6.  13:38, 140 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl


HR zones
zone 4 - 144-146
zone 3 - 126-143
zone 2 - 109-125
zone 1 - 0-108




I am pleased with the overall run, especially hanging on to the pace from about 3.75 miles to the end, when the cadence dropped.  All of those random orange and red dots up to mile 5, I felt.  I knew them and tried to compensate.  The last half mile was especially interesting, as I was faltering for lack of water, which I would've loved at mile 4.  Mouth dry, just a teensy weensy bit light headed (but I'll deny it) in the final half mile.  But I was still sweating!  I squeezed the headband twice, today. 

All those 13 splits in 80 degree weather is quite nice.  To run 6 miles in 80 degree weather at a 13:36 avg pace is remarkable.  Let's compare today's 6 to last week's 6 at 74 degrees.  Guess pushing it will be a good thing after all.

6 miles, 1:27;07, 14:29 pace, 124 avg bpm, 134 max bpm, 156 avg cadence, 70 stride length.
1.  14:19, 117 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:47, 128 bpm, 161 spm, 69 sl
3.  14:45, 124 bpm, 155 spm, 76 sl
4.  14:46, 124 bpm, 145 spm, 73 sl
5.  14:43, 124 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl
6.  14:31, 125 bpm, 149 spm, 74 sl


Thanks for observing the merchandise.

Nice run!  I'm tempted to say that you must have taken Cruise Control Caroline out for a spin.  Pace and HR are pretty consistent for a run of that length...once you got going.  The cadence graphic is fun to see....but you did maintain a nice pace even though your cadence dropped off.

How do you carry your water...when you remember to take it...    I'm going to need to start carrying water again...or stashing it somewhere.  I don't really like either option but will probably opt for a handheld bottle.  I don't like to circle back to the house for water every 4 miles.

Nice effort.

Thanks, but I think Cruise Control Caroline would get bored with my pace.  But it was a nifty run. 

It makes me wonder what else different can I do.  The heart is clearly under challenged. 

Losing weight would help, but sugar is presently addictive.  But the fudge tastes good!  Sidebar--I tweaked the B for butter fudge by adding 2 more tablespoons of butter in order to make it less crumbly.  It was less crumbly, but it durn near melts in your mouth.  So, I can't leave it in the car.  So I'll probably make another batch, this month.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I might resurrect 880 run x 440 rest cycle. Or maybe run 4 miles faster.

Today, I went to 24 Hour to work out with weights.  I would've gone last week, but I was having troubles with their app, which is used to check in, now.  Make a reservation, show them your phone at check-in, wipe the weights down with a cleaner.  You have 1 hour to work out, then they close the facility for 30 minutes for a cleaning.

I wasn't able to hit all of the machines I wanted to, but I hit most of them.  It wasn't crowded at 5 a.m., but about 80% of the usual population.  I probably had lost 30-50% strength.  This workout, I basically worked with lighter weights to get the body used to the motions again.  No point in hurting on the 1st day.

Nancy, to your water question.  I will drop a bottle off the night before, somewhere, but that's only during the Summer.  Once I am able to do 7 miles, I'll pass a water fountain at Memorial Park and won't need to carry a bottle.  Additionally, when I run 7+ miles, my route always includes at least 1 water fountain, intentionally.

Bulletin:  The weather forecast is a dew point of 46 in the morning, or so.  In June, too!  Bizarre-o.

I woke up this morning and immediately checked the temp.  81 degrees with a dew point of 78.   The front hadn't passed through yet.

Today's plan was to do the run 880 & recover 440.  81 degrees was going to make it interesting, to say the least.  I stepped out into the thick air and immediately reconsidered the run.  But in the minute or so it took to get to the start line, a strong north wind began.  There was no drop in temperature, however, dry air was on the way.  And if you can't run in dry air, running with a 10-15 mph breeze is almost as good for dissipating mugginess.

When I finished the run, I checked the temps  78 degrees with a dew point of 56.  The drier air is supposed to stay until Saturday, but it will still be in the 90's. Yesterday during the funeral, the heat index was 111 degrees.  98 degrees with a dew point of 74 degrees.

Anywho, I set out to run the intervals with a goal of 5-880s.  I had to stop during the 4th because my legs were getting tired.  Really tired.  That's okay.  I imagine I should've stopped at 3, but I had to stretch.  Same result.

I walked and ran 2.5 miles total.  I mostly walked the recovery 440.  Always have.
1.  12:07 pace, 127 bpm, 137 max
2.  12:17 pace, 133 bpm, 137 max
3.  12:02 pace, 135 bpm, 140 max
4.  12:09 pace (0.24 miles), 130 bpm, 138 max

Walking 440s recorded an average HR of between 103-111 bpm. 

I didn't perceive my pace to be any faster than the time shows.  So, that's the story and I will hope, hope, hope that the dew point is in the 50's again on Friday.  Thanks for reading.

ounce wrote:Thanks, but I think Cruise Control Caroline would get bored with my pace.  But it was a nifty run. 

It makes me wonder what else different can I do.  The heart is clearly under challenged. 

Losing weight would help, but sugar is presently addictive.  But the fudge tastes good!  Sidebar--I tweaked the B for butter fudge by adding 2 more tablespoons of butter in order to make it less crumbly.  It was less crumbly, but it durn near melts in your mouth.  So, I can't leave it in the car.  So I'll probably make another batch, this month.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I might resurrect 880 run x 440 rest cycle. Or maybe run 4 miles faster.

Today, I went to 24 Hour to work out with weights.  I would've gone last week, but I was having troubles with their app, which is used to check in, now.  Make a reservation, show them your phone at check-in, wipe the weights down with a cleaner.  You have 1 hour to work out, then they close the facility for 30 minutes for a cleaning.

I wasn't able to hit all of the machines I wanted to, but I hit most of them.  It wasn't crowded at 5 a.m., but about 80% of the usual population.  I probably had lost 30-50% strength.  This workout, I basically worked with lighter weights to get the body used to the motions again.  No point in hurting on the 1st day.

Nancy, to your water question.  I will drop a bottle off the night before, somewhere, but that's only during the Summer.  Once I am able to do 7 miles, I'll pass a water fountain at Memorial Park and won't need to carry a bottle.  Additionally, when I run 7+ miles, my route always includes at least 1 water fountain, intentionally.

Bulletin:  The weather forecast is a dew point of 46 in the morning, or so.  In June, too!  Bizarre-o.

Good to see that you're now able to venture back to the gym.  I'm convinced that core/strength training is very beneficial to successful run training.  

I don't have the option to run by a water fountain.    As much as I dislike carrying a hand held water bottle that may be my best option...I dislike the water belts even more.  For some reason I don't mind setting up an aid station and looping by the house every 4-5 miles during a long run but that doesn't work as well when I'm running intervals.

ounce wrote:I woke up this morning and immediately checked the temp.  81 degrees with a dew point of 78.   The front hadn't passed through yet.

Today's plan was to do the run 880 & recover 440.  81 degrees was going to make it interesting, to say the least.  I stepped out into the thick air and immediately reconsidered the run.  But in the minute or so it took to get to the start line, a strong north wind began.  There was no drop in temperature, however, dry air was on the way.  And if you can't run in dry air, running with a 10-15 mph breeze is almost as good for dissipating mugginess.

When I finished the run, I checked the temps  78 degrees with a dew point of 56.

Interested to see how the run went this morning...