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ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Enjoy the Standard American Diet while you can! If nothing else, it'll get you good and loaded up on sodium. 

EEK!!!! You know the acronym!!!!!!

Yeah, and I was doing so well on beating the carb addiction.  No biggie, I know what to do.

Not surprisingly, I am thinking about doing the 100K (isn't that how it always happens).  I think the first thing that I have to do is to get out of my mind the notion of having the lowest time possible versus just crossing the dang finish line in a vertical position.  

I can see having to re-wrap my foot after each loop, change socks, lube up, drink up, then move on down the road.  I can see running just until the sun gets ornery, then saunter until dusk, then walk or run (probably walk) until sunrise the next morning.  I have not put pencil to paper to see how far I would have left to finish on the preceding sentence.

I do know that at a 20 minute pace, it would take about 21 hours to walk the course and I'm swagging 2 hours maintenance for a total of 23 hours.

But do I need walking shoes for the times I would be walking?  Would it confuse my feet (causing shear, then blisters to an untaped area) to run in running shoes and walk in walking shoes?

I plan on losing weight and doing weights and core.  Kinda looks like I'm going to train for it, but it's many weeks away (end of September) and I'm still gathering data.  I also have to dovetail training for the 100K with Houston, next January.

Thanks for helping me with the due diligence.

You're going to do it.  Good for you!

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Enjoy the Standard American Diet while you can! If nothing else, it'll get you good and loaded up on sodium. 

EEK!!!! You know the acronym!!!!!!

Yeah, and I was doing so well on beating the carb addiction.  No biggie, I know what to do.

Not surprisingly, I am thinking about doing the 100K (isn't that how it always happens).  I think the first thing that I have to do is to get out of my mind the notion of having the lowest time possible versus just crossing the dang finish line in a vertical position.  

I can see having to re-wrap my foot after each loop, change socks, lube up, drink up, then move on down the road.  I can see running just until the sun gets ornery, then saunter until dusk, then walk or run (probably walk) until sunrise the next morning.  I have not put pencil to paper to see how far I would have left to finish on the preceding sentence.

I do know that at a 20 minute pace, it would take about 21 hours to walk the course and I'm swagging 2 hours maintenance for a total of 23 hours.

But do I need walking shoes for the times I would be walking?  Would it confuse my feet (causing shear, then blisters to an untaped area) to run in running shoes and walk in walking shoes?

I plan on losing weight and doing weights and core.  Kinda looks like I'm going to train for it, but it's many weeks away (end of September) and I'm still gathering data.  I also have to dovetail training for the 100K with Houston, next January.

Thanks for helping me with the due diligence.

Do you need separate walking shoes? I wouldn't think so. But it might not be a bad idea to experiment with different types of shoes in long training efforts (different cushion, different drop, etc.) and see what works best for you. n=1, after all...

Yay! on everything including the 100K

Thanks, Miche1e, but I'll have to have some injury-free or injury-irrelevant training days.

-30-

So, here are the splits for the second loop of the race.  I wasn't wearing the HR strap and the cadence was 115.

15:05 miles, 4:46:30, 19:02 pace, 0.85 m avg stride length
1.  17:35, 99 spm, 93 sl
2.  17:09, 92 spm, 1.02 sl
3.  18:03, 112 spm, 80 sl
4.  18:23, 112 spm, 78 sl
5.  22:19, aid station, 90 spm, 80 sl
6.  18:40, 109 spm, 79 sl
7.  18:44, 102 spm, 84 sl, gator sighting
8.  22:52, aid station, 81 spm, 87 sl
9.  18:15, 108 spm, 82 sl
10. 17:35, 102 spm, 90 sl
11. 24:11, aid station, 76 spm, 88 sl
12. 17:33, 113 spm, 81 sl
13. 17:50, 109 spm, 83 sl
14. 19:12, aid station, 96 spm, 88 sl
15. 17:20, 113 spm, 82 sl
16. 15:19 pace, 129 spm, 82 sl

Today, two blisters on the inside of both pinky toes are proving difficult to reduce, as a result of wearing any kind of shoe.  So last night, I popped them with a hole big enough to not seal over, applied antibiotic ointment, and covered them.  General edema in both feet, especially the left, is still around and was the most on Thursday.  I attribute that to the race through Tuesday and consuming more salt than usual, since the race, specifically a ham, and probably not drinking as much water as last week.  This too will pass.

The post-race lateral calf muscle discomfort abated on Wednesday.  I ran a mile on Tuesday and walked back.  I was hoping to do 3, but the soreness was such that I didn't want to make anything worse.

Thanks for dropping by.

ounce wrote:Thanks, Miche1e, but I'll have to have some injury-free or injury-irrelevant training days.

-30-

So, here are the splits for the second loop of the race.  I wasn't wearing the HR strap and the cadence was 115.

15:05 miles, 4:46:30, 19:02 pace, 0.85 m avg stride length
1.  17:35, 99 spm, 93 sl
2.  17:09, 92 spm, 1.02 sl
3.  18:03, 112 spm, 80 sl
4.  18:23, 112 spm, 78 sl
5.  22:19, aid station, 90 spm, 80 sl
6.  18:40, 109 spm, 79 sl
7.  18:44, 102 spm, 84 sl, gator sighting
8.  22:52, aid station, 81 spm, 87 sl
9.  18:15, 108 spm, 82 sl
10. 17:35, 102 spm, 90 sl
11. 24:11, aid station, 76 spm, 88 sl
12. 17:33, 113 spm, 81 sl
13. 17:50, 109 spm, 83 sl
14. 19:12, aid station, 96 spm, 88 sl
15. 17:20, 113 spm, 82 sl
16. 15:19 pace, 129 spm, 82 sl

Today, two blisters on the inside of both pinky toes are proving difficult to reduce, as a result of wearing any kind of shoe.  So last night, I popped them with a hole big enough to not seal over, applied antibiotic ointment, and covered them.  General edema in both feet, especially the left, is still around and was the most on Thursday.  I attribute that to the race through Tuesday and consuming more salt than usual, since the race, specifically a ham, and probably not drinking as much water as last week.  This too will pass.

The post-race lateral calf muscle discomfort abated on Wednesday.  I ran a mile on Tuesday and walked back.  I was hoping to do 3, but the soreness was such that I didn't want to make anything worse.

Thanks for dropping by.

 It's not every day that race splits include a notation for a gator sighting...to funny.

Sounds like recovery is going as well as can be expected.  I'm not surprised it's taking more time than you expected.  You asked a lot of your body.  You appear to be listening when your body complains and asks for more time so that's good.

Relax and have a few more carbs...

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:Thanks, Miche1e, but I'll have to have some injury-free or injury-irrelevant training days.

-30-

So, here are the splits for the second loop of the race.  I wasn't wearing the HR strap and the cadence was 115.

15:05 miles, 4:46:30, 19:02 pace, 0.85 m avg stride length
1.  17:35, 99 spm, 93 sl
2.  17:09, 92 spm, 1.02 sl
3.  18:03, 112 spm, 80 sl
4.  18:23, 112 spm, 78 sl
5.  22:19, aid station, 90 spm, 80 sl
6.  18:40, 109 spm, 79 sl
7.  18:44, 102 spm, 84 sl, gator sighting
8.  22:52, aid station, 81 spm, 87 sl
9.  18:15, 108 spm, 82 sl
10. 17:35, 102 spm, 90 sl
11. 24:11, aid station, 76 spm, 88 sl
12. 17:33, 113 spm, 81 sl
13. 17:50, 109 spm, 83 sl
14. 19:12, aid station, 96 spm, 88 sl
15. 17:20, 113 spm, 82 sl
16. 15:19 pace, 129 spm, 82 sl

Today, two blisters on the inside of both pinky toes are proving difficult to reduce, as a result of wearing any kind of shoe.  So last night, I popped them with a hole big enough to not seal over, applied antibiotic ointment, and covered them.  General edema in both feet, especially the left, is still around and was the most on Thursday.  I attribute that to the race through Tuesday and consuming more salt than usual, since the race, specifically a ham, and probably not drinking as much water as last week.  This too will pass.

The post-race lateral calf muscle discomfort abated on Wednesday.  I ran a mile on Tuesday and walked back.  I was hoping to do 3, but the soreness was such that I didn't want to make anything worse.

Thanks for dropping by.

 It's not every day that race splits include a notation for a gator sighting...to funny.

Sounds like recovery is going as well as can be expected.  I'm not surprised it's taking more time than you expected.  You asked a lot of your body.  You appear to be listening when your body complains and asks for more time so that's good.

Relax and have a few more carbs...

I was fairly close to Karen (about 8 feet away) when she was doing a selfie with that gator.  Not close enough to keep her from being bit, but maybe close enough to have a tug of war.  There were 4 other people near (including 1 person that took the photo), but not in my way.

As far as recovery, my feet are losing some swelling as I can almost see the metatarsal tendons on my left, but can see them on the right.  The blisters (right pinky toe & left ball 'o feet) finally didn't squawk when I wore shoes on Sunday.  The pinky toe pitched a fit when I wore shoes, even the widest I had.  Both ankles still are retaining water, but doing well otherwise.

Today, I'm tapering back on carbs.  The box of Frosted Flakes is gone and I'll probably never buy another box again as my sweetness love is not as sweet.  Must be because I don't eat too many and because I eat 64-72% chocolate like I used to eat milk chocolate.  When I drink iced tea (which isn't much), I order unsweetened tea.

Do y'all up in the NW have a choice on sweet or unsweet tea at restaurants?  I know Miche1e does in Atlanta, as the South started the sweet tea thing.  Texas didn't pick up on it until about 15 years ago or whenever Cracker Barrel showed up.

I'm going to try to start running again, tomorrow.  I think the near term training schedule is the good old base building plan because I'll need a good endurance base for both the 100K and Houston.

thanks!

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:Thanks, Miche1e, but I'll have to have some injury-free or injury-irrelevant training days.

-30-

So, here are the splits for the second loop of the race.  I wasn't wearing the HR strap and the cadence was 115.

15:05 miles, 4:46:30, 19:02 pace, 0.85 m avg stride length
1.  17:35, 99 spm, 93 sl
2.  17:09, 92 spm, 1.02 sl
3.  18:03, 112 spm, 80 sl
4.  18:23, 112 spm, 78 sl
5.  22:19, aid station, 90 spm, 80 sl
6.  18:40, 109 spm, 79 sl
7.  18:44, 102 spm, 84 sl, gator sighting
8.  22:52, aid station, 81 spm, 87 sl
9.  18:15, 108 spm, 82 sl
10. 17:35, 102 spm, 90 sl
11. 24:11, aid station, 76 spm, 88 sl
12. 17:33, 113 spm, 81 sl
13. 17:50, 109 spm, 83 sl
14. 19:12, aid station, 96 spm, 88 sl
15. 17:20, 113 spm, 82 sl
16. 15:19 pace, 129 spm, 82 sl

Today, two blisters on the inside of both pinky toes are proving difficult to reduce, as a result of wearing any kind of shoe.  So last night, I popped them with a hole big enough to not seal over, applied antibiotic ointment, and covered them.  General edema in both feet, especially the left, is still around and was the most on Thursday.  I attribute that to the race through Tuesday and consuming more salt than usual, since the race, specifically a ham, and probably not drinking as much water as last week.  This too will pass.

The post-race lateral calf muscle discomfort abated on Wednesday.  I ran a mile on Tuesday and walked back.  I was hoping to do 3, but the soreness was such that I didn't want to make anything worse.

Thanks for dropping by.

 It's not every day that race splits include a notation for a gator sighting...to funny.

Sounds like recovery is going as well as can be expected.  I'm not surprised it's taking more time than you expected.  You asked a lot of your body.  You appear to be listening when your body complains and asks for more time so that's good.

Relax and have a few more carbs...

I was fairly close to Karen (about 8 feet away) when she was doing a selfie with that gator.  Not close enough to keep her from being bit, but maybe close enough to have a tug of war.  There were 4 other people near (including 1 person that took the photo), but not in my way.

As far as recovery, my feet are losing some swelling as I can almost see the metatarsal tendons on my left, but can see them on the right.  The blisters (right pinky toe & left ball 'o feet) finally didn't squawk when I wore shoes on Sunday.  The pinky toe pitched a fit when I wore shoes, even the widest I had.  Both ankles still are retaining water, but doing well otherwise.

Today, I'm tapering back on carbs.  The box of Frosted Flakes is gone and I'll probably never buy another box again as my sweetness love is not as sweet.  Must be because I don't eat too many and because I eat 64-72% chocolate like I used to eat milk chocolate.  When I drink iced tea (which isn't much), I order unsweetened tea.

Do y'all up in the NW have a choice on sweet or unsweet tea at restaurants?  I know Miche1e does in Atlanta, as the South started the sweet tea thing.  Texas didn't pick up on it until about 15 years ago or whenever Cracker Barrel showed up.

I'm going to try to start running again, tomorrow.  I think the near term training schedule is the good old base building plan because I'll need a good endurance base for both the 100K and Houston.

thanks!

I think you can get sweet tea at McDonald's, but most of the stuff around here is unsweetened. There is a Cracker Barrel opening up just south of Portland, though, so we should be on our guard.

Glad the swelling is down in your feet now. Woot!

It was 67 degrees this morning with a dewpoint of 67 degrees.  Not too bad and we're supposed to have cool front roll through to bring Sunday's low to 52 degrees, so we have a nice Sunday to look forward to.

I ran 3 miles this morning and it went well.  The only issue was the left big toe, where I trimmed the nail a bit too close to the nail bed.  Other than that I tried to keep whatever pace I was running, no matter how the lungs liked it or not.  This was the first run more than the mile I ran last week.

Ran at a 162 cadence and an overall pace of 13:07.
1. 13:23
2. 12:46
3. 13:06

The first mile was slower than I thought, the 2nd faster, which makes mile 3 the Goldilocks mile.

Glad recovery is going well.

As for the Sweet Tea thing, when I first moved to GA you had to purposely ask for unsweet tea - now you pretty much have to ask for sweet tea.  And there is a huge difference between "Sweet" tea and "sweetened" tea.  Now growing up in MA, you could only get ice tea in the summer and no other time - now you can get it all year round.  And it is always unsweet.

I really like the comparing from our respective parts of the country on stuff.  We ought to pick some things or topics to compare, e.g. price of gas, most popular sport, price of food staples, etc.

-30-

So, I've been pondering the electrolyte deficiency at BB and the necessary corrective action(s).  Here are some of the facts:
1.  The race ran out of Hammer's version of S-Caps during the race and I didn't bring any S-Caps of my own because I didn't figure they would run out.  This is easy to correct...bring my own.  Mark even mentioned that Hammer's contained less electrolytes than S-Caps.
2.  I never even thought of drinking Gatorade, just potato chips for the salt.  I did drink a pickle juice shot early in the race, but they also ran out of pickles.  Correction:  Bring S-Caps and if my fingers swell (hypoatremia) drink Gatorade or even fill my bottle with half water/half Gatorade throughout a warm race (21 oz bottle).
3.  I couldn't remember if swollen fingers was hypoatremia or not.  Correction:  Now I know and I hope I'll remember when I'm dazed and confused (queue music).
4.  With the aid stations spread around every 4 miles, I think I did well nursing the bottle evenly.  During the second loop, I would chug some water at the aid station, refill, then walk one.  This didn't help the electrolytes, but I felt comfortable with the potato chips to supply the salt.  Correction:  Use my headband as a barometer of how I'm sweating and adjust intake.  It was dry after the race.

As mentioned in the report, the drape hat, the ice bandana, and the sleeves really kept my situation from downgrading a lot worse that it probably was.  Maybe drinking more to the degree that I'm peeing throughout the race would be another barometer.

Thoughts?  Thanks.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Glad recovery is going well.

As for the Sweet Tea thing, when I first moved to GA you had to purposely ask for unsweet tea - now you pretty much have to ask for sweet tea.  And there is a huge difference between "Sweet" tea and "sweetened" tea.  Now growing up in MA, you could only get ice tea in the summer and no other time - now you can get it all year round.  And it is always unsweet.

 Late to the discussion but I only remember having ice tea in the summer as well...and we had to add our own sugar.  Now it seems like ice tea is always available...with flavors added.

I learned to drink iced coffee while living in Australia.  I love it!  Unfortunately I learned to drink it made with milk rather than water and with sugar added.  I used to make it quite often but now try to make it mostly for a treat as it's quite fattening and rather easy to overindulge.  Not a fan of black iced coffee although I do drink black coffee hot.

*
Thanks for sharing your electrolyte/hydration theories/solutions.  Looks like you're getting it pretty well figured out.

nkrichards wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Glad recovery is going well.

As for the Sweet Tea thing, when I first moved to GA you had to purposely ask for unsweet tea - now you pretty much have to ask for sweet tea.  And there is a huge difference between "Sweet" tea and "sweetened" tea.  Now growing up in MA, you could only get ice tea in the summer and no other time - now you can get it all year round.  And it is always unsweet.

 Late to the discussion but I only remember having ice tea in the summer as well...and we had to add our own sugar.  Now it seems like ice tea is always available...with flavors added.

I learned to drink iced coffee while living in Australia.  I love it!  Unfortunately I learned to drink it made with milk rather than water and with sugar added.  I used to make it quite often but now try to make it mostly for a treat as it's quite fattening and rather easy to overindulge.  Not a fan of black iced coffee although I do drink black coffee hot.

*
Thanks for sharing your electrolyte/hydration theories/solutions.  Looks like you're getting it pretty well figured out.

I've never been a coffee drinker, except one time in college when I had to pull the proverbial all nighter.  That was the only time.  It just didn't taste good.  I'd never even been in a Starbucks until Reina came to Houston, three years ago.

-30-
Well, this morning, I wasn't able to go past a mile and three-fourths.  My cadence started trailing off and I know that's the kiss of death.  Might be the transitioning back to low carbs.  (Better be.)

The link below is a 50 mile runner's race report that showed up on ultrarunning.com.  I bring this to your attention for the photo with the alligator.  This is the same alligator Karen had her picture take with, although the gator wasn't smiling for her photo.  She was closer to the gator than these two.  I was about as far away from the gator as the photographer.

https://ultrarunning.com/featured/brazos-bend-50-the-fastest-trail-in-texas/

This morning, I ran 4 miles at a 13:07 overall pace in 64 degree weather at a 162 cadence.  Things felt mostly fine.  The bottom of my left heel hurt a tad, as if it was bruised (which it probably is).  So, I leaned a tad forward and worked on hitting mid-foot which seemed to work.  Other than that, I feel like I have zero base, so I'll work on a 4-4-4-5 mile schedule until I am comfortable.

I expect it to be tight in the morning, when I get up.  I'm almost into a routine to extend and flexion both feet before getting out of bed, just to wake up the plantars.

I think the body is not convinced that I'm starting a new cycle and is much like a teenager denying the inevitability of the assimilation.  Resistance is futile.

ounce wrote:The link below is a 50 mile runner's race report that showed up on ultrarunning.com.  I bring this to your attention for the photo with the alligator.  This is the same alligator Karen had her picture take with, although the gator wasn't smiling for her photo.  She was closer to the gator than these two.  I was about as far away from the gator as the photographer.

https://ultrarunning.com/featured/brazos-bend-50-the-fastest-trail-in-texas/

Thanks for the link Doug.  That was a fun read.  Alligators must not be nearly as aggressive as crocodiles...anytime I was even close to crocodile country in Australia they were more than paranoid about getting anywhere near their habitat.  I guess the salt water crocs are the worst.

*

Sounds like your outing went well this morning.  Recovery is a slow process but looks like you're on track.

Thanks, Nancy.  I remember the Park Rangers said the gators were lookin' for love, so maybe we weren't his/her type.  No telling.

-30-

I ran 4 miles again, this morning.  This was the first back-to-back run in quite a while.  I wasn't expecting to run at the same pace as yesterday's, but just to make it through the distance.  It was 74 degrees (+10 degrees over yesterday), but with a good south breeze because of a Low pressure system in OK/Ark area.  The wind offset some of the temp increase.

I ran a couple of mid-13 miles and a couple of low 14 miles.  My cadence started out at 162 for the 1st half, but slowed to around 150 for most of miles 3 & 4.  So, what I expected to occur happened, regarding the slowing.  But this controlled 'boot camp' needs to continue for the next few weeks.  Maybe this piece of the training should be called 'Running Rehab.'  Nah, too conventional.

The only discomfort (not including the semi-heavy breathing) was where a BB50 blister on the left ball of the foot below the 3rd toe acted up, on the walk out to start running.  It resolved after about 30 yards into the run.

Friday should be a 5 mile run, after resting on Thursday.

Enjoy your rest day...

nkrichards wrote:Enjoy your rest day...

Much obliged.  You know, I didn't wake up with any heel pain, this morning.  Rather odd, but I'll take it!

I should be in good enough shape to try the 5 miles, in the morning.  This morning would have been a very nice morning for the 5 miles (low 50's and low humidity), but that's adios for a while as the low temperature for Friday is supposed to occur around 2 a.m. at 67 degrees and warm throughout the rest of the darkness at a rate of 1-2 degrees per hour.

We might even hit 90 degrees, tomorrow!  Average first 90 is May 7.

ounce wrote:I really like the comparing from our respective parts of the country on stuff.  We ought to pick some things or topics to compare, e.g. price of gas, most popular sport, price of food staples, etc.

-30-

So, I've been pondering the electrolyte deficiency at BB and the necessary corrective action(s).  Here are some of the facts:
1.  The race ran out of Hammer's version of S-Caps during the race and I didn't bring any S-Caps of my own because I didn't figure they would run out.  This is easy to correct...bring my own.  Mark even mentioned that Hammer's contained less electrolytes than S-Caps.
2.  I never even thought of drinking Gatorade, just potato chips for the salt.  I did drink a pickle juice shot early in the race, but they also ran out of pickles.  Correction:  Bring S-Caps and if my fingers swell (hypoatremia) drink Gatorade or even fill my bottle with half water/half Gatorade throughout a warm race (21 oz bottle).
3.  I couldn't remember if swollen fingers was hypoatremia or not.  Correction:  Now I know and I hope I'll remember when I'm dazed and confused (queue music).
4.  With the aid stations spread around every 4 miles, I think I did well nursing the bottle evenly.  During the second loop, I would chug some water at the aid station, refill, then walk one.  This didn't help the electrolytes, but I felt comfortable with the potato chips to supply the salt.  Correction:  Use my headband as a barometer of how I'm sweating and adjust intake.  It was dry after the race.

As mentioned in the report, the drape hat, the ice bandana, and the sleeves really kept my situation from downgrading a lot worse that it probably was.  Maybe drinking more to the degree that I'm peeing throughout the race would be another barometer.

Thoughts?  Thanks.

You're on the right track here. It sounds like electrolytes were definitely the problem for you. I think ultra organizers are great, but I'd never trust them with something as important as electrolytes. Definitely bring your own.

Here's a comparison between S!Caps and Endurolytes. They are NOT the same.

S!Caps (per capsule)
Sodium: 341 mg
Potassium: 21 mg

Dosing: For light sweating (cool weather), take 1 capsule per 2 hours. For moderate sweating (moderate weather), take 1 capsule per hour - normal dosage. For heavy sweating (very warm or humid weather), take 1 capsule per half hour. Do not exceed 2 capsules per hour.

Endurolytes (per capsule)
Sodium: 40 mg
Chloride: 60 mg
Calcium: 50 mg
Magnesium: 25 mg
Potassium: 25 mg
Vitamin B6: 6.6 mg
Manganese: 1.8 mg

Dosing: Take 1-3 capsule per hour during prolonged exercise in hot weather. Extreme conditions may warrant higher dosage.

On its website, Hammer tweaks what it says on the bottle, describing 2 capsules as a single serving. They also make a higher-dose Endurolytes Extreme, which might be a better choice for you than the basic Endurolytes. (Though I'm still partial to S!Caps myself.) Here's a link to the Endurlytes Extereme web page.

As for peeing, what I've read is that, if you pee every two hours or so, you're well hydrated. If it's more, or super clear, ease back. If it looks dark, or if you step peeing for hours and hours, drink more. That said, the whole philosophy on hydration has changed over the past few years. The rule now -- especially at ultras -- is to only drink when you're thirsty.

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Enjoy your rest day...

Much obliged.  You know, I didn't wake up with any heel pain, this morning.  Rather odd, but I'll take it!

I should be in good enough shape to try the 5 miles, in the morning.  This morning would have been a very nice morning for the 5 miles (low 50's and low humidity), but that's adios for a while as the low temperature for Friday is supposed to occur around 2 a.m. at 67 degrees and warm throughout the rest of the darkness at a rate of 1-2 degrees per hour.

We might even hit 90 degrees, tomorrow!  Average first 90 is May 7.

I can't imagine 90 degree weather this time of year...especially with high humidity.

I'm still bundling up for chilly, windy outings.  I'm sure once the sunshine arrives I'll complain because it's to hot...

Hope the 5 went well today.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:I really like the comparing from our respective parts of the country on stuff.  We ought to pick some things or topics to compare, e.g. price of gas, most popular sport, price of food staples, etc.

-30-

So, I've been pondering the electrolyte deficiency at BB and the necessary corrective action(s).  Here are some of the facts:
1.  The race ran out of Hammer's version of S-Caps during the race and I didn't bring any S-Caps of my own because I didn't figure they would run out.  This is easy to correct...bring my own.  Mark even mentioned that Hammer's contained less electrolytes than S-Caps.
2.  I never even thought of drinking Gatorade, just potato chips for the salt.  I did drink a pickle juice shot early in the race, but they also ran out of pickles.  Correction:  Bring S-Caps and if my fingers swell (hypoatremia) drink Gatorade or even fill my bottle with half water/half Gatorade throughout a warm race (21 oz bottle).
3.  I couldn't remember if swollen fingers was hypoatremia or not.  Correction:  Now I know and I hope I'll remember when I'm dazed and confused (queue music).
4.  With the aid stations spread around every 4 miles, I think I did well nursing the bottle evenly.  During the second loop, I would chug some water at the aid station, refill, then walk one.  This didn't help the electrolytes, but I felt comfortable with the potato chips to supply the salt.  Correction:  Use my headband as a barometer of how I'm sweating and adjust intake.  It was dry after the race.

As mentioned in the report, the drape hat, the ice bandana, and the sleeves really kept my situation from downgrading a lot worse that it probably was.  Maybe drinking more to the degree that I'm peeing throughout the race would be another barometer.

Thoughts?  Thanks.

You're on the right track here. It sounds like electrolytes were definitely the problem for you. I think ultra organizers are great, but I'd never trust them with something as important as electrolytes. Definitely bring your own.

Here's a comparison between S!Caps and Endurolytes. They are NOT the same.

S!Caps (per capsule)
Sodium: 341 mg
Potassium: 21 mg

Dosing: For light sweating (cool weather), take 1 capsule per 2 hours. For moderate sweating (moderate weather), take 1 capsule per hour - normal dosage. For heavy sweating (very warm or humid weather), take 1 capsule per half hour. Do not exceed 2 capsules per hour.

Endurolytes (per capsule)
Sodium: 40 mg
Chloride: 60 mg
Calcium: 50 mg
Magnesium: 25 mg
Potassium: 25 mg
Vitamin B6: 6.6 mg
Manganese: 1.8 mg

Dosing: Take 1-3 capsule per hour during prolonged exercise in hot weather. Extreme conditions may warrant higher dosage.

On its website, Hammer tweaks what it says on the bottle, describing 2 capsules as a single serving. They also make a higher-dose Endurolytes Extreme, which might be a better choice for you than the basic Endurolytes. (Though I'm still partial to S!Caps myself.) Here's a link to the Endurlytes Extereme web page.

As for peeing, what I've read is that, if you pee every two hours or so, you're well hydrated. If it's more, or super clear, ease back. If it looks dark, or if you step peeing for hours and hours, drink more. That said, the whole philosophy on hydration has changed over the past few years. The rule now -- especially at ultras -- is to only drink when you're thirsty.

Thanks, Mark.  Yup, yup, had I known Hammer was THAT different, I would've brought my S!Caps.  Of course, Gatorade would've helped, but 24 ozs of Gatorade doesn't give as much Sodium (320mg) as 1 S!Cap.  Another surprise.

Before the Finish line, there were 9 stops at aid stations.  I had a 21 oz bottle.  Between stops 1-5, I probably drank 17 or so ounces each.  From 6-9, it was all 21 ozs plus probably 4-8 ounces at the aid station.  Between stops 7 & 8 was when the slight nausea occurred, but resolved.  The thing that surprised (the word 'concerned' is cloaked) was the dry headband after the race.  Dehydrated would be the conclusion because I didn't have heat cramps, heat syncope (fainting), heat exhaustion, and the worst, heat stroke.

I bought a Camelbak bladder about 2 years ago from REI.  I've never opened the package.  It seems it would be prudent to open the package, during the summer.

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:Enjoy your rest day...

Much obliged.  You know, I didn't wake up with any heel pain, this morning.  Rather odd, but I'll take it!

I should be in good enough shape to try the 5 miles, in the morning.  This morning would have been a very nice morning for the 5 miles (low 50's and low humidity), but that's adios for a while as the low temperature for Friday is supposed to occur around 2 a.m. at 67 degrees and warm throughout the rest of the darkness at a rate of 1-2 degrees per hour.

We might even hit 90 degrees, tomorrow!  Average first 90 is May 7.

I can't imagine 90 degree weather this time of year...especially with high humidity.

I'm still bundling up for chilly, windy outings.  I'm sure once the sunshine arrives I'll complain because it's to hot...

Hope the 5 went well today.

Heat index for today is around 98 degrees.

Average for this time of year is 82 and 63 for a low.  Some storms with a cool front is suppose to blow through Saturday night giving a high of 76 on Sunday. 

Our definition of 'too hot' is probably similar to our definition of 'too hilly.'  We live in fun times.

-30-

Today's 5 mile run went well, just a bit better than I expected.  I also had my HR strap on to see if my perception of HR effort matched the numbers.  That was a pleasant surprise, too.

It was 73 degrees with a dewpoint of 70.  This was the first warm morning where it hit me in the face, once outside.  Oh, well.  The cadence was 162.

The rest day was really effective.  My left heel was a little sore this morning due to walking in the wrong pair of shoes, the Ruby Red Kinvara 4 which have been retired but shouldn't be used to walk in for a few hours.

5 miles, 1:09:00, 13:47 pace, 149 max bpm during mile 5, 161 avg spm, 0.73 m avg stride length, 13:43 1st half pace, 13:51 2nd half pace.
1.  13:40, 116 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl
2.  13:41, 137 bpm, 161 spm, 73 sl
3.  14:09, 140 bpm, 161 spm, 71 sl
4.  13:51, 142 bpm, 160 spm, 72 sl
5.  13:38, 145 bpm, 160 spm, 74 sl

Except for the 1st mile, the other miles' HR are fair.  I was watching the HR during some of the run and it wasn't registering in the later miles, but the above numbers are within 2 bpm, I figure.

I was surprised by the low figures during miles 2-5.  I was thinking it was more. During mile 4, the cadence was slowing, but I worked on keeping the cadence.  Other than the HR creeping up during mile 5, I was also surprised by the 13:38 time.

A very surprising week of running.  Other than the aforementioned sore left heel, there were zero ailments to report.

13 miles for this week.  Thanks for stopping by and commenting.  Holler with any questions.

Last week, I ran 4 miles on Tuesday faster than I ran 4 miles the next day, Wednesday.  I was hoping to run 5 miles on Friday.  However, due to doing a lot of walking on Thursday helping my brother move, my tootsies were not in any mood to run.  In fact, they weren't a lot better on Saturday.

The sentence in "Fixing Your Feet" that as you get older, your feet lose padding is very true in my case.  Heck, I even wore a newer pair of my running shoes to maybe deflect the sore feet.  Nope.

This turn of events made me consider for the 100K actually changing shoes and re-taping my feet after each loop or at least re-taping my foot.  After driving home from the 50K , I noticed the Peregrines and the gaiters kept all but the fine dirt away from my feet.  I remember the book saying that even fine dirt can exacerbate the shear forces that create blisters.

If nothing else, I'll need to change socks and re-tape my feet when I transition from running to walking for laps 2 and 3.  I'd like to run the first loop, but with the weather likely to be very warm and the race starting at 8, I don't know if running the first 3rd would be smart.

Heck - I know nothing about ultras, but I think that it is best that you use a run and walk strategy and that you have a plan in place before you begin. I would suggest - and please remember that I have only run marathons and one 50K - that you employ this strategy from the very beginning i.e. rather than run the 1st loop and run/walk and eventually walk the other loops - that you begin with a run/walk strategy from the very beginning.  It has been my very limited experience in marathons where I had to employ such a strategy (warm weather, undertrained, slightly injured) that this worked best.  It also seemed that I didn't "crash and burn" as in the same way when I tried to run until I had to walk.  Instead I walked because it was part of the plan, and my times were always faster and I always felt way better.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Heck - I no nothing about ultras, but I think that it is best that you use a run and walk strategy and that you have a plan in place before you begin. I would suggest - and please remember that I have only run marathons and one 50K - that you employ this strategy from the very beginning i.e. rather than run the 1st loop and run/walk and eventually walk the other loops - that you begin with a run/walk strategy from the very beginning.  It has been my very limited experience in marathons where I had to employ such a strategy (warm weather, undertrained, slightly injured) that this worked best.  It also seemed that I didn't "crash and burn" as in the same way when I tried to run until I had to walk.  Instead I walked because i was part of the plan, and my times were always faster and I always felt way better.

+1

I don't have a good answer for you on the feet. What sort of socks do you wear, and do you use any insoles other than the ones that come with your shoes? (Sounds like a visit to a good running-oriented podiatrist might not be a bad idea.)

Mark B wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Heck - I no nothing about ultras, but I think that it is best that you use a run and walk strategy and that you have a plan in place before you begin. I would suggest - and please remember that I have only run marathons and one 50K - that you employ this strategy from the very beginning i.e. rather than run the 1st loop and run/walk and eventually walk the other loops - that you begin with a run/walk strategy from the very beginning.  It has been my very limited experience in marathons where I had to employ such a strategy (warm weather, undertrained, slightly injured) that this worked best.  It also seemed that I didn't "crash and burn" as in the same way when I tried to run until I had to walk.  Instead I walked because i was part of the plan, and my times were always faster and I always felt way better.

+1

I don't have a good answer for you on the feet. What sort of socks do you wear, and do you use any insoles other than the ones that come with your shoes? (Sounds like a visit to a good running-oriented podiatrist might not be a bad idea.)

+2
No experience at all with ultras but I think Mark brings up a good point...talk to someone with experience.  If you don't want to spend the time/money to go to a podiatrist or PT try your local running store.  Our local store employs a couple professional runners.  They also have PT's that are in the store on a regular schedule to answer questions.  Max King is the trail runner with the most name familiarity.  He is great to answer questions and definitely has the experience that we lack.  Maybe your running store has something similar.  It doesn't cost anything to ask.