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Time to Pace Others

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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Alex Kubacki on Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:00 am

Nice running in these conditions Jim. The elevation chart showed a nice climb to start that run. Looks like fun.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:42 am

Alex Kubacki wrote:Nice running in these conditions Jim. The elevation chart showed a nice climb to start that run. Looks like fun.

Thanks Alex, for a Chicagoan that is quite a hill. It was a great trail for running.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:35 am

Today was an off day for me and I struggled to get in 4 easy miles.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Kenny B. on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:14 pm

Jim-

I think for me anything over an hour is no longer a true recovery run. For me that is 6+ miles. If I am going to do a 8 mile run or 10 mile run it is going to be part of a faster run GA, LSD, TEMPO, TRACK, etc. If 8 or 10 is needed to be easy I prefer to split it up as 4 and 4 5 and 3 5 and 5 as doubles.

I just feel recovery is just that to recover and anything over an hour running is not recovering IMO!

I think you get better benefit from 8 miles easy broken down into 4 and 4 or why not make that 8 10 and do 6 and 4.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Seth Harrison on Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:59 pm

KBFitz wrote:
Yep. I'll take the credit, Jim, for the intensity of your Tuesday trail workout. We averaged 9:00 pace in 90° heat. When I do it solo in 80° heat (early morning) I average 9:40-9:50 pace. So we took the challenging terrain in hot conditions at a decent clip. I think this is a natural result of running with chums -- it's not as easy to slack off as when you're running solo. So, I'll take the credit! Wink

Looks like you guys had a great time out in that heat last week.
Like Kenny said, I think anything over an hour wouldn't be considered recovery.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:30 pm

Kenny B. wrote:Jim-

I think for me anything over an hour is no longer a true recovery run. For me that is 6+ miles. If I am going to do a 8 mile run or 10 mile run it is going to be part of a faster run GA, LSD, TEMPO, TRACK, etc. If 8 or 10 is needed to be easy I prefer to split it up as 4 and 4 5 and 3 5 and 5 as doubles.

I just feel recovery is just that to recover and anything over an hour running is not recovering IMO!

I think you get better benefit from 8 miles easy broken down into 4 and 4 or why not make that 8 10 and do 6 and 4.



I have only done doubles to make up for a missed run. I have nothing against doubles, but it can be a scheduling issue. I didn't do it as a recovery run, but an easy run.

Seth Harrison wrote:
KBFitz wrote:
Yep. I'll take the credit, Jim, for the intensity of your Tuesday trail workout. We averaged 9:00 pace in 90° heat. When I do it solo in 80° heat (early morning) I average 9:40-9:50 pace. So we took the challenging terrain in hot conditions at a decent clip. I think this is a natural result of running with chums -- it's not as easy to slack off as when you're running solo. So, I'll take the credit! Wink

Looks like you guys had a great time out in that heat last week.
Like Kenny said, I think anything over an hour wouldn't be considered recovery.



We really did have a great time last week and the week before.



It is recovery versus easy. I have done sort of long runs at an easy pace, but don't consider them recovery.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  jon c on Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:20 am

I hear you on the doubles scheduling. This week has been easier since my family has been out of town, but I like to spend time with them in the evenings if at all possible.



Recovery vs. easy. I think that sometimes these can tend to overlap to some degree. My easy runs are pretty close to recovery pace most of the time.



Keep up the good work Jim.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  mul21 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:57 am

Looks like you're piling on the miles pretty well Jim. Have you figured out anything on the reason for the fade in your last couple of marathons?
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:08 pm

jon c wrote:I hear you on the doubles scheduling. This week has been easier since my family has been out of town, but I like to spend time with them in the evenings if at all possible.



Recovery vs. easy. I think that sometimes these can tend to overlap to some degree. My easy runs are pretty close to recovery pace most of the time.



Keep up the good work Jim.



I took today off as I think the low energy yesterday was a sign my body needed rest.



Thanks Jon.

mul21 wrote:Looks like you're piling on the miles pretty well Jim. Have you figured out anything on the reason for the fade in your last couple of marathons?


I haven't been following a plan for a while and am just transitioning to running 5 days a week from 4. I know it is a result of dehydration caused by a bad code brown, but not certain if it is lactose or gluten issues.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:23 pm

You will bounce back. I hear you on recovery vs. easy according to McMillian there is a difference. Think recovery runs are needed if your taxing your body a few days a week. If most of your runs are "easy" or LSD pace then easy might be perfectly fine. If you were doing LT's track, GAs often I'd say recovery over easy.

Rest up!
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:28 pm

The majority of my runs fall into the easy pace the last month or so. Hopefully I can start spicing things up soon with some uptempo running.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Julie on Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:51 am

Is your goal race the Lakefront 50/50? I forget...
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:02 pm

Julie,



My goal race is Chicago so that I can re-BQ for 2013. I need a 3:30 or better.



Today I ran 8 miles after a tough 4 Wednesday and the day off yesterday. I had a hard time getting in a rhythm at first, but was able to run 3 of the last 4 miles sub-8. The last mile was even at 7:10.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Kenny B. on Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:56 am

Jim, good job getting the run in sometimes it starts off tough and we tend to ease into it!
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:46 pm

mul21 wrote:Looks like you're piling on the miles pretty well Jim. Have you figured out anything on the reason for the fade in your last couple of marathons?

Jim, I think I finally have a potential answer to the cause, not having a gallbladder, but need to work on a way to deal with it (diet, etc.).
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:48 pm

Kenny B. wrote:Jim, good job getting the run in sometimes it starts off tough and we tend to ease into it!

Kenny, today was a good example of it starting off tough and getting better. For the first 3-4 miles I felt sick to my stomach and weak, but as it started to rain I started feeling better and more energetic. I ran 14 easy miles even though I planned to do 11-13 and ran in the NB Trail Minimus shoe.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Alex Kubacki on Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:50 am

Way to stick with it when you weren't feeling it. Then beginning to feel good was your reward. Great job.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  jon c on Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:02 am

It's never fun to try to get a workout in when you're not feeling up to par, but many times your body will kick in and it can turn out well. Glad it went good for you!



Building and adding mileage and days running can be a challenge but once you get the body acclimated, you will see progress. Keep it up!
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:35 pm

Alex Kubacki wrote:Way to stick with it when you weren't feeling it. Then beginning to feel good was your reward. Great job.



Thanks Alex. It definitely worked out well this time.

jon c wrote:It's never fun to try to get a workout in when you're not feeling up to par, but many times your body will kick in and it can turn out well. Glad it went good for you!



Building and adding mileage and days running can be a challenge but once you get the body acclimated, you will see progress. Keep it up!


It was nice to start feeling better as the run progressed.



This morning helped on the running front because I am teaching at Crystal Lake, CA out in the desert. The highs are in the 100s with low humidity. Peggy suggested I run in the morning and the lower temps, low humidity and darkness worked out. I left the motel shortly before 4:30 AM and my throat was dry from the low humidity by mile 1 and I stopped around 3.5 miles in to get a drink and bathroom break. I then ran about 4.5 more miles for a total of 8 miles. The first mile wasn't much faster than 10 minutes/mile, but by the end my average pace was at 8:45. Each mile got progressively faster and by mile 8 I was at MP -10 seconds for that last mile. It felt pretty good and my HR showed it.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  mul21 on Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:41 pm

Jim Lentz wrote:
mul21 wrote:Looks like you're piling on the miles pretty well Jim. Have you figured out anything on the reason for the fade in your last couple of marathons?

Jim, I think I finally have a potential answer to the cause, not having a gallbladder, but need to work on a way to deal with it (diet, etc.).

That's great news! At least you know what the issue is now, I don't think there's anything worse than not knowing the cause of what's ailing you.

The run this morning looked good too. Awesome when you get a nice smooth progression like that.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:21 pm

mul21 wrote:
Jim Lentz wrote:
mul21 wrote:Looks like you're piling on the miles pretty well Jim. Have you figured out anything on the reason for the fade in your last couple of marathons?

Jim, I think I finally have a potential answer to the cause, not having a gallbladder, but need to work on a way to deal with it (diet, etc.).

That's great news! At least you know what the issue is now, I don't think there's anything worse than not knowing the cause of what's ailing you.

The run this morning looked good too. Awesome when you get a nice smooth progression like that.



It sure helps me figure out how to work around it. I had other theories, but none of them fit. When I looked at the symptoms for this it matches exactly.



Thanks, it felt pretty good, Jim.



I ran another nice morning run this AM. I did 10 miles at an average pace of 8:15, approximately a GA run. The last mile was sub-MP again.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:28 pm

10 miles at an average pace of 8:15...niiiiiiiice! Keep up the great work. Hopefully we see you and Peggy out there on a run...the weather is starting to get nice!
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Alex Kubacki on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:33 am

Great job on the 10 Jim. Way to finish it strong too.
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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  John Kilpatrick on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:16 am

Catching up, Jim - great couple of runs here recently - nice to be out of the bad heat for a change!

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Re: Time to Pace Others

Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:28 pm

Mrs. Schuey wrote:10 miles at an average pace of 8:15...niiiiiiiice! Keep up the great work. Hopefully we see you and Peggy out there on a run...the weather is starting to get nice!



Thanks Lisa, it felt pretty good. If I am not too tired after this trip Peggy and I will be out there this Saturday morning. My flight arrives just before 5AM on Saturday.
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