Term Limits?

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Good job on pushing through the fatigue wall. That'll help a lot. Don't worry about cadence and pace at this point; you just want to be moving.

"Inside Waterworld" would be a good name for the movie, as would "The Fluffsidon Adventure" -- or, "20,000 leagues under the bathtub." 

"Hurricane Fluff"?  "Flash Fluff Emergency"?  "Clear and Present Fluffing"? "Not A Cat's Purpose"?

Well, I guess '...pushing through the fatigue wall' is as good an reason as anything.

nkrichards wrote:I'll have to check out the movie Doug...thanks for the suggestion.

Keep at it...slow and steady will win the race.

Thanks, Nancy, but for humor's sake, could you tell me which races I would win as 'slow and steady?'  I'll start preparing some shelving for all the hardware!

Surely you've heard of the Tortoise and the Hare.  Wait that's just a fable.  But Mark recommended the Maffetone books and they indicate that slow and steady training will lead to faster running...and we can trust Mark!

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Good job on pushing through the fatigue wall. That'll help a lot. Don't worry about cadence and pace at this point; you just want to be moving.

"Inside Waterworld" would be a good name for the movie, as would "The Fluffsidon Adventure" -- or, "20,000 leagues under the bathtub." 

"Hurricane Fluff"?  "Flash Fluff Emergency"?  "Clear and Present Fluffing"? "Not A Cat's Purpose"?

Well, I guess '...pushing through the fatigue wall' is as good an reason as anything.

nkrichards wrote:I'll have to check out the movie Doug...thanks for the suggestion.

Keep at it...slow and steady will win the race.

Thanks, Nancy, but for humor's sake, could you tell me which races I would win as 'slow and steady?'  I'll start preparing some shelving for all the hardware!

Surely you've heard of the Tortoise and the Hare.  Wait that's just a fable.  But Mark recommended the Maffetone books and they indicate that slow and steady training will lead to faster running...and we can trust Mark!

   Uh, yeah.

After Sunday's run, I didn't run Monday then didn't run on Tuesday because I had a platelet donation to do.  Sitting for as long as I do during a donation, I didn't want to have to stop the donation for having to pee, which would've happened had I run and replenish fluids prior to the donation.  I should attain 50 gallons by Thanksgiving.

So, I ran Wednesday.  Being Wednesday, I did the parking garage hill work.  It was 75 degrees.  The workout went about as well as last week, which was fine and expected.  In a few weeks, it should get easier and longer.

I have the opportunity to run this Saturday, again, plus a dry front is due tomorrow, which means the dew points will be a-droppin' for Saturday morning.  Soooo, I think Saturday is the day.  8 or 9 miles, I figure.  Time will tell.

Thanks for stopping by.

This morning, it was 69 degrees with a dew point of 59 degrees.  It'll be short lived, but I took advantage of it, while it is here.  It really wasn't a crisp or cool morning, but the dew point was very noticeable.  I didn't sleep well, last night, more because I've slept well this week, but only ran once on Wednesday.  So, I wasn't draining the stored energy.  It's happened before, so I really wasn't too surprised.

Once again, it took about 2 miles for the body to get in the groove.  Cadence was set at 163.  The goal was 8 or 9 miles.  I wanted to do 9, so I could show to myself that I was in a period of progression.  I needed that.

I got that.

If I remember the numbers correctly, the 1st half was 13:30, the 2nd half was 13:42 for an overall 13:36 pace or 2:02:21.  No split was 14:00+.  That was really, really nice.  Some of it was due to the dew point, probably half.   The other half was a welcome progression with the body now knowing that it's marathon training season.  No longer am I being fought nor feeling like I'm dragging a dog on a leash.  I'm still lugging more weight than I should, but the body is adjusting.

The muscles, ligaments, and tendons are synched and compliant.  The body is getting a little tired at mile 7, but we're getting there.  I'd like to be running a long run of 15 miles by Halloween.  That's usually the halfway point of the cycle because the 1st race in the local marathon Warm Up Series is a half marathon around Halloween.  So it'll increase my comfort level to be a couple of miles ahead of a half marathon distance.

I'll post the splits, once I get it uploaded.  Y'all have a good weekend.

edit:  As threatened, splits.

9 miles, 2:02:20, 13:35 avg pace, 161 avg pace, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:30, 2nd half pace, 13:40
1.  13:48, 162 spm, 72 sl
2.  13:13, 163 spm, 75 sl
3.  13:37, 160 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:24, 163 spm, 74 sl
5.  13:26, 162 spm, 74 sl
6.  13:47, 161 spm, 73 sl
7.  13:43, 160 spm, 74 sl
8.  13:46, 159 spm, 74 sl
9.  13:36, 156 spm, 76 sl

Humidity is back for Monday!

Good plan...good progression evident.  Nice run.

Looking good again, Doug.  Progression makes sense and as usual you are on the right track for january.

Progress! And nice even splits, too. Good job!

nkrichards wrote:Good plan...good progression evident.  Nice run.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Looking good again, Doug.  Progression makes sense and as usual you are on the right track for january.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.  Thanks.

Mark B wrote:Progress! And nice even splits, too. Good job!

Of COURSE  that was all part of my diabolical scheme!

I would feel better about being on the right track, once my speed decreases so a 6 hour time limit is not a concern and that's happened only once.

-30-

This morning, it was 72 degrees with the same figure for a dew point.  This run was going to be an interesting thing, as it was two days from Saturday's 9 mile.  I wasn't sure if my body would be too tired or recovered from the 9. Sooooo, I had a plan to run the Devil's Loop.  That's really an 'out there' goal for me.  6.66 miles after running 9?  Probably a psychological thing.  (truly!)  Fake out the legs.

I headed off and within a quarter mile, my left quad was hurting.  Right in the belly of the quad, however it felt more like trash in the lines than a muscle pull.  Otherwise, it was what seems to be this year's training normal of it taking 2 miles to go.  I also had it in my mind, this week, to do some running at a faster pace for 5 or less miles, instead of parking garage hill work.  I have to work on the speed.  I just have to do that.

That thought for Wednesday's workout somehow got into today's run actual.  Which was good and almost good.

I ran 5 miles, this morning (the almost good).  I was running faster (the good) but ran out of steam, as the splits will tell (the almost good).  Overall, I enjoyed the run and saw areas to improve...like miles 4 & 5. The splits were easy to remember because I was so surprised at the first two. 

The average pace was 13:30, the same as the 9 mile.
1.  13:16
2.  12:54
3.  13:22
4.  13:45
5.  14:21

I felt like I would drag too much, if I tried to do the 6.66 distance, because I started out faster, got faster, then this roman candle floated to earth.

But the weather is threatened to be cooler in 10 days (highs what the low was this morning) and that will aid in going faster.  The body is still holding together and I have weeks until Houston.

Ultre y'all.

Looks like a good run to me!  Oh what a difference the weather makes...enjoy that cooler weather.

Thank you, ma'am.

-30-

This morning was this cycle's first 'speed' workout.

The little stretch of the feeder along side I-10 has a very nice half mile stretch that's fairly desolate as to traffic pulling in off the feeder.  This allows me some mostly uninterrupted 'running.'  This stretch is also part of the path to the theater's parking garage, where the hill work is executed.

I warmed up a 1/4 mile to the location, reset the watch, and started out like the critter on the left and finished like the critter on the right:


But that's okay for the first one.  Finished around 6:09 for the 1/2.
So, here we go on the second (and third and fourth) looking like the critter on the left and finished like the critter on the right:


See a pattern?  

I deprecate on myself (not 'defecate,' Mark. ) because I like the cartoon.  Of course, I'd like to be like:

but that ain't gonna happen.

So my times, as I remember, were 6:06 to 6:19.  Good enough for the first time.  It was 75 degrees with a dew point of 71 and there was a non-cool NE breeze from time to time.  This is where I'm supposed to say that as I do it more, the times will decrease and I can do more repeats.  I do very much like this 1/2 mile strip with only 3 driveways for which to lookout for traffic.

In the end, I'll just close with:

ounce wrote:Thank you, ma'am.

-30-

This morning was this cycle's first 'speed' workout.

The little stretch of the feeder along side I-10 has a very nice half mile stretch that's fairly desolate as to traffic pulling in off the feeder.  This allows me some mostly uninterrupted 'running.'  This stretch is also part of the path to the theater's parking garage, where the hill work is executed.

I warmed up a 1/4 mile to the location, reset the watch, and started out like the critter on the left and finished like the critter on the right:


But that's okay for the first one.  Finished around 6:09 for the 1/2.
So, here we go on the second (and third and fourth) looking like the critter on the left and finished like the critter on the right:


See a pattern?  

I deprecate on myself (not 'defecate,' Mark. ) because I like the cartoon.  Of course, I'd like to be like:

but that ain't gonna happen.

So my times, as I remember, were 6:06 to 6:19.  Good enough for the first time.  It was 75 degrees with a dew point of 71 and there was a non-cool NE breeze from time to time.  This is where I'm supposed to say that as I do it more, the times will decrease and I can do more repeats.  I do very much like this 1/2 mile strip with only 3 driveways for which to lookout for traffic.

In the end, I'll just close with:

The goal here is to start out more like the tortoise and finish more like the hare...but any speed work is good.  I enjoy speed work further into my training cycle but the first couple sessions are tough!

The highest priority is making sure you're having fun training and from the looks of this post you are!

Hare is too fast, tortoise is too slow. Roadrunner is ridiculous.

So... here's your spirit animal for your race



Just watch out for cliff edges and falling safes. 

Kidding aside. Start those speed repeats a little slower. Figure out what split times you need on the way and aim for those.

ALSO! (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS): A half mile repeat on speedwork is TOO FAR FOR YOU RIGHT NOW.

Instead, RUN LIKE HELL for a quarter mile, then walk to the end of the half mile stretch (giving you a quarter mile for get your heart back normal), turn around, RUN LIKE HELL again, then walk back to the original starting point. Try to hit the same time on each repeat. Repeat. Repeat. 

You want to do speedwork like this -- getting those fast-twitchers to fire -- beyond the "comfortably hard" level of effort, but the duration needs to be short enough to not allow too much lactic acid to build up in your legs. That'll cook your legs. Hence the quarter mile. Then a walk to clear the legs, then another round, cool-down, etc. Make sense?

At some point, you may be able to do Yasso 800s, but speed is not something you've done a lot of and you need to get your body geared up for it.

Don't be this guy

Mark B wrote:Hare is too fast, tortoise is too slow. Roadrunner is ridiculous.

So... here's your spirit animal for your race



Just watch out for cliff edges and falling safes. 

Kidding aside. Start those speed repeats a little slower. Figure out what split times you need on the way and aim for those.

ALSO! (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS): A half mile repeat on speedwork is TOO FAR FOR YOU RIGHT NOW.

Instead, RUN LIKE HELL for a quarter mile, then walk to the end of the half mile stretch (giving you a quarter mile for get your heart back normal), turn around, RUN LIKE HELL again, then walk back to the original starting point. Try to hit the same time on each repeat. Repeat. Repeat. 

You want to do speedwork like this -- getting those fast-twitchers to fire -- beyond the "comfortably hard" level of effort, but the duration needs to be short enough to not allow too much lactic acid to build up in your legs. That'll cook your legs. Hence the quarter mile. Then a walk to clear the legs, then another round, cool-down, etc. Make sense?

At some point, you may be able to do Yasso 800s, but speed is not something you've done a lot of and you need to get your body geared up for it.

Don't be this guy

Yeah...what he said.  You're in the ballpark for pace but the intervals should be steady and they should all be very close to the same pace.  I agree that for now a quarter mile would be the preferred distance.  According to Hanson you should be shooting for a 12:05-12:36 pace for speed work.  So 3:01-3:09 for a quarter mile.  And your rest should be the same distance...a quarter mile.  He cautions runners not to do them to fast!  Once you can hit that pace for 8-10 intervals then you could step up and try the longer half mile interval...less repeats of course.

I love speed work but it needs to be added at an appropriate time and pace.

Have fun with it but don't get carried away or you'll be back on the injury list.

nkrichards wrote:

Mark B wrote:Hare is too fast, tortoise is too slow. Roadrunner is ridiculous.

So... here's your spirit animal for your race



Just watch out for cliff edges and falling safes. 

Kidding aside. Start those speed repeats a little slower. Figure out what split times you need on the way and aim for those.

ALSO! (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS): A half mile repeat on speedwork is TOO FAR FOR YOU RIGHT NOW.

Instead, RUN LIKE HELL for a quarter mile, then walk to the end of the half mile stretch (giving you a quarter mile for get your heart back normal), turn around, RUN LIKE HELL again, then walk back to the original starting point. Try to hit the same time on each repeat. Repeat. Repeat. 

You want to do speedwork like this -- getting those fast-twitchers to fire -- beyond the "comfortably hard" level of effort, but the duration needs to be short enough to not allow too much lactic acid to build up in your legs. That'll cook your legs. Hence the quarter mile. Then a walk to clear the legs, then another round, cool-down, etc. Make sense?

At some point, you may be able to do Yasso 800s, but speed is not something you've done a lot of and you need to get your body geared up for it.

Don't be this guy

Yeah...what he said.  You're in the ballpark for pace but the intervals should be steady and they should all be very close to the same pace.  I agree that for now a quarter mile would be the preferred distance.  According to Hanson you should be shooting for a 12:05-12:36 pace for speed work.  So 3:01-3:09 for a quarter mile.  And your rest should be the same distance...a quarter mile.  He cautions runners not to do them to fast!  Once you can hit that pace for 8-10 intervals then you could step up and try the longer half mile interval...less repeats of course.

I love speed work but it needs to be added at an appropriate time and pace.

Have fun with it but don't get carried away or you'll be back on the injury list.

^^^
What she said.

I'll give it a whirl.  Thanks, y'all!

-30-

Last Friday, I completed 10 miles.  As I remember, it was about 69 degrees, a decent temp for a run, but warmer than the prior week's 9 miles.  Instead of a similar overall pace of 13:30, it was 13:47.  But, I finished.

This past Monday, it was 75 degrees with 100% humidity.  Devil's Loop of 6.66 miles was the target.  I guess I have no acclimation for 75 degrees, anymore.  I ran 1.5 miles.

Late Tuesday afternoon, a cool front (almost a cold front) came through reducing Wednesday's high to a seasonal 83 from a record 94 on Tuesday.  I ran the Devil's Loop Wednesday morning.  It was 63 degrees with a dewpoint of 53 degrees.  Really nice weather, considering this is what it should be, this time of year.

The run went well, by the numbers, but I'm not quite at the point of clicking off 7 miles, like I can click off 4.  I know it'll come, but quicker would be nice.  Of course, I'm starting the training cycle 4-6 weeks later than normal.

6.74 miles, 1:30:01, 13:21 pace, 160 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:16, 2nd half pace 13:26.
1.  13:31, 162 spm, 73 sl
2.  13:04, 162 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:17, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  13:05, 162 spm, 76 sl
5.  13:26, 161 spm, 74 sl
6.  13:28, 156 spm, 77 sl
7.  13:48 pace, 154 spm, 76 sl

Tomorrow, I have 12 miles on the mind.  Temp is supposed to be around 70-72.  Monday morning in the 50's.  Hmmm.

I tried.  1.25 miles and the cadence was slipping.  That's the kiss of death.  It was 71 degrees out there.  91 for a high today.  Good and humid for game 1 and 2 of the AL championship series, tonight and tomorrow.  Both of Miche1e's teams are out.

Legitimate Fall cool front due Sunday afternoon with 3 local tv stations forecasting highs for M-W in the high 70's.

Go 'Stros.

ounce wrote:I tried.  1.25 miles and the cadence was slipping.  That's the kiss of death.  It was 71 degrees out there.  91 for a high today.  Good and humid for game 1 and 2 of the AL championship series, tonight and tomorrow.  Both of Miche1e's teams are out.

Legitimate Fall cool front due Sunday afternoon with 3 local tv stations forecasting highs for M-W in the high 70's.

Go 'Stros.

Kevin's a Nationals fan due to his time in DC.  We all know how that worked out...poorly.

We're going to have to figure out how to get you through those first few miles more consistently...I guess the cool weather will help.

Kudos for giving it a try in those conditions...

Thanks, Nancy.  I think this town is hook, line, and sinker supporting this year's team, as a result of Saturday's complete game by Justin Verlander and the winning run in the bottom of the ninth.  Magical.

-30-

The previously advertised cool front did, in fact, come through dropping temps 15 degrees or so and the dew points, as well.  This morning, it was 65 degrees with a dew point of 47 and a breeze of 10 or so.  I wore a shirt with short sleeves.  When I finished the run it was 58 degrees.

I ran 12 miles, this morning.  The weather was pivotal.  I was good for 10 miles, then used mind control to do the last two.  The first half split was 13:25 and the 2nd half split was 13:35 for a 13:30 average.  13:41 was the slowest split, if memory serves me correctly.  I'll post the splits, later.  Cadence slowed a bit after mile 10, hence the mind control.

Boy, I'll tell you that me trying to keep off of my heels and hit mid-foot is really a stroke of time saving in all of the splits.  It's not that I'm going faster or even trying to go faster.  I'm just not going slower.  Technique.

I won't be running in the morning, but it's supposed to be 52 degrees and 56 on Wednesday with highs in the 70's (rather than lows).

What happened to your Astros last night???

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:What happened to your Astros last night???

This series, they've been hitting like they were hitting in August.

ounce wrote:Thanks, Nancy.  I think this town is hook, line, and sinker supporting this year's team, as a result of Saturday's complete game by Justin Verlander and the winning run in the bottom of the ninth.  Magical.

-30-

The previously advertised cool front did, in fact, come through dropping temps 15 degrees or so and the dew points, as well.  This morning, it was 65 degrees with a dew point of 47 and a breeze of 10 or so.  I wore a shirt with short sleeves.  When I finished the run it was 58 degrees.

I ran 12 miles, this morning.  The weather was pivotal.  I was good for 10 miles, then used mind control to do the last two.  The first half split was 13:25 and the 2nd half split was 13:35 for a 13:30 average.  13:41 was the slowest split, if memory serves me correctly.  I'll post the splits, later.  Cadence slowed a bit after mile 10, hence the mind control.

Boy, I'll tell you that me trying to keep off of my heels and hit mid-foot is really a stroke of time saving in all of the splits.  It's not that I'm going faster or even trying to go faster.  I'm just not going slower.  Technique.

I won't be running in the morning, but it's supposed to be 52 degrees and 56 on Wednesday with highs in the 70's (rather than lows).

Technique is everything. Good job not running slower. Keep it up!

Hope your cool weather sticks around a bit more.

Thanks, Mark.  It's odd to me that something so small can make such a difference.  Now, I have to create some serious stamina on that stride.

Funny you should mention the weather...

-30-

This morning, it was 65 degrees with 100% humidity.  I was going to do speed, yesterday (it was still cool), but I felt like my legs weren't ready, deep inside the muscles.  Tuesday, I attached the TENS to the quads and gave them an hour of shock treatment.

This morning, I ran two miles for the purpose of getting the trash out of the lines for a long run, tomorrow.  BUT, the weather for tomorrow will be 70 degrees with 100% humidity, thereby, scrapping the long run and will do speed work instead.

Mark, your cold front (maybe it's not for y'all) will arrive here on Sunday to cool things off a bit.  Next Tuesday, a follow up front full of Canadian air arrives with temps for Wednesday morning of 48 degrees and a high of 69.  So, I feel like Summer's grip is finally going to be released.

Monday, I'll be running 14 miles.

Below are the splits for this past Monday's 12 mile run at a 163 cadence.

12 miles, 2:41:55, 13:30 pace, 161 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:25, 2nd half pace 13:35.
1.  13:38, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  13:10, 163 spm, 75 sl
3.  13:37, 160 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:25, 163 spm, 74 sl
5.  13:15, 162 spm, 75 sl
6.  13:24, 161 spm, 74 sl
7.  13:41, 160 spm, 73 sl
8.  13:32, 162 spm, 73 sl
9.  13:34, 162 spm, 73 sl
10. 13:28, 162 spm, 73 sl
11. 13:35, 160 spm, 74 sl
12. 13:33, 159 spm, 75 sl

I guess some stamina exists.  Seems encouraging.  Thanks for checking in.  Bring on the cold weather.

GO 'STROS! (please?)

Nice run!  I'm impressed every time I see the cadence you're able to maintain.  Mine usually averages 155-158 but I did notice that it hit an average of 162 during my race last weekend.  Hmm...maybe there is something to learn in those details.

Anyway...nice run!  Keep at it and enjoy the cooler weather.

nkrichards wrote:Nice run!  I'm impressed every time I see the cadence you're able to maintain.  Mine usually averages 155-158 but I did notice that it hit an average of 162 during my race last weekend.  Hmm...maybe there is something to learn in those details.

Anyway...nice run!  Keep at it and enjoy the cooler weather.

Thanks very much, Nancy.  I would like to get my cadence much higher.  I believe the target is 180, which is what Miche1e is able to accomplish, prior to her falling because of a boy.  In my case, it takes some effort and a higher, evolving stamina to raise it even 1 to 164.  I learned I can't do that during a training cycle.

But, I have to have a metronome to keep me on cadence.  Without that chirp or beep, I'm all over the place...mostly lower.  Before the metronome, I was in the 140s-150s.  It costs about $20 and I clip it to my shirt collar, below my ear.

-30-

Well, I was planning on doing some 440's, today.  However, it was raining pretty hard, so I scratched.  I guess the rain didn't get the memo about it not starting until noon.  It adds to our, already, all time record for rainfall in 2017.  Got to make it hard for future years.

Monday's morning temp is threatened to be 57 degrees!  Good temps to run 14.

Y'all have a nice and canoe free weekend.

Thank God it is hockey season.  No more baseball for me - Damn, F'in Yankees.