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Yeah, yeah, yeah.  "Lunas...for those who'd rather run the trail barefoot."

Those LP 3.0's have a stack height of 20mm, now.  That's enough?  Of course, I'd try to have 2 pairs for the race, so it only really needs to last 31 miles...or more specifically 34 miles and 28 miles. Hmmm.  Thanks.  Something to ponder.

Monday morning, I woke up a little groggy, but got up anyway because I needed to run.  It was on the schedule, after all.  73 degrees!  Oh, we've been promised the storm that fooled Portland meteorologists to come in here on Thursday night with some Canadian air to bring us lows in the 50's over the weekend.

I ran and was as flat as the roads I run on.  I got a mile and shut it down.  So next time I am groggy, I will turn over and go back to sleep.

Tomorrow, I will either do the parking garage & stairs or I might drive over to Spotts Park again for some easier hill work than I did last Wednesday.

ounce wrote:Monday morning, I woke up a little groggy, but got up anyway because I needed to run.  It was on the schedule, after all.  73 degrees!  Oh, we've been promised the storm that fooled Portland meteorologists to come in here on Thursday night with some Canadian air to bring us lows in the 50's over the weekend.

I ran and was as flat as the roads I run on.  I got a mile and shut it down.  So next time I am groggy, I will turn over and go back to sleep.

Tomorrow, I will either do the parking garage & stairs or I might drive over to Spotts Park again for some easier hill work than I did last Wednesday.

I hate days like that!!  I guess your body was trying to tell you something...you listened...eventually anyway.

Spotts Park might be the hill work of choice under the circumstances.  Hope it goes well whatever you decide.

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:Monday morning, I woke up a little groggy, but got up anyway because I needed to run.  It was on the schedule, after all.  73 degrees!  Oh, we've been promised the storm that fooled Portland meteorologists to come in here on Thursday night with some Canadian air to bring us lows in the 50's over the weekend.

I ran and was as flat as the roads I run on.  I got a mile and shut it down.  So next time I am groggy, I will turn over and go back to sleep.

Tomorrow, I will either do the parking garage & stairs or I might drive over to Spotts Park again for some easier hill work than I did last Wednesday.

I hate days like that!!  I guess your body was trying to tell you something...you listened...eventually anyway.

Spotts Park might be the hill work of choice under the circumstances.  Hope it goes well whatever you decide.

Yes and Yes! 

This morning, I ended up just going to the parking garage to run some ramps and walk 8 flights of stairs twice.  It was 76 degrees out there.  Almost like August.  I am hoping the 5 degree temp increase and not running Monday would account for not being able to do more than 1 set of ramps.

I had a nagging discomfort in my left ankle, medial side below the ankle bone.  After a mile, it dissipated.  On the 1-1/3rd mile return trip, my left knee started whining after 1 mile, so I shut down and walked the rest of the way.  For Friday, I'm pondering 14-16 miles.  It's supposed to be in the low 50's on Friday.

Mark, from the stuff on the web, everyone loves the LP 2.0, the LP 3.0 not quite as much.  I think I see how it's so tough and comfy for it being so thin.

ounce wrote:

nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:Monday morning, I woke up a little groggy, but got up anyway because I needed to run.  It was on the schedule, after all.  73 degrees!  Oh, we've been promised the storm that fooled Portland meteorologists to come in here on Thursday night with some Canadian air to bring us lows in the 50's over the weekend.

I ran and was as flat as the roads I run on.  I got a mile and shut it down.  So next time I am groggy, I will turn over and go back to sleep.

Tomorrow, I will either do the parking garage & stairs or I might drive over to Spotts Park again for some easier hill work than I did last Wednesday.

I hate days like that!!  I guess your body was trying to tell you something...you listened...eventually anyway.

Spotts Park might be the hill work of choice under the circumstances.  Hope it goes well whatever you decide.

Yes and Yes! 

This morning, I ended up just going to the parking garage to run some ramps and walk 8 flights of stairs twice.  It was 76 degrees out there.  Almost like August.  I am hoping the 5 degree temp increase and not running Monday would account for not being able to do more than 1 set of ramps.

I had a nagging discomfort in my left ankle, medial side below the ankle bone.  After a mile, it dissipated.  On the 1-1/3rd mile return trip, my left knee started whining after 1 mile, so I shut down and walked the rest of the way.  For Friday, I'm pondering 14-16 miles.  It's supposed to be in the low 50's on Friday.

Mark, from the stuff on the web, everyone loves the LP 2.0, the LP 3.0 not quite as much.  I think I see how it's so tough and comfy for it being so thin.

I have the Lone Peak 2.0, and I like it quite a lot. In the 2.5 and 3.0, they eliminated a mid foot overlay that really seems to help lock down the foot. They took that out of the Superior (the shoe I did my 50-miler in) before, and I suddenly couldn't wear them anymore. My food wouldn't lock down, and my toes would crash into the toe box. Very annoying.

I'd definitely try them on first and see how they feel. 

If you want the 2.0 fit, you can get this "Neoshell" version of the Lone Peak that still uses the 2.0 build. It's waterproof, which is of dubious benefit, but if it breathes, it may be okay.

Here's hoping the cooler weather finally arrives.

Oh, and get a flu shot.

Regarding the mid-sole overlay, if I inserted my own insole, does that remove the sliding problem or will the bottom of my insole slide, as well?

edit:  Additionally, would the 'waterproof' upper tend to lessen the amount of dirt that would go inside the shoe?

I was shot last month.

I ran the 16 miles, this morning.  The body was more compliant than last week.  I believe the hill work at Spotts Park, last week, was too much and resulted in the soreness last week.  It was 61 degrees with a dewpoint of 49 and a 5-10 north wind.  Very nice.

The legs were mostly fine, but both heels hurt afterwards and still do.  It seems like they're tight or possibly sore from heel strikes or both.  Walking on them settles them down mostly.

1st half was 13:42 and the second half was 14:28.  Have a nice weekend.

ounce wrote:Regarding the mid-sole overlay, if I inserted my own insole, does that remove the sliding problem or will the bottom of my insole slide, as well?

edit:  Additionally, would the 'waterproof' upper tend to lessen the amount of dirt that would go inside the shoe?

I was shot last month.

The sliding issue for me was mostly due to my odd foot shape and the fact that I wasn't able to get a good lock-down with the laces. There are other shoes that happens in (a lot of otherwise very good trail shoes, in fact), so it probably isn't an issue for a lot of people.

Even so, if you have a contoured insole, that'll probably help keep your foot in place.

I hadn't thought about dirt intrusion, but you may be on to something with the waterproof upper as a barrier to dust and sand.

Good job on the 16-miler. Be nice to those heels!

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:Regarding the mid-sole overlay, if I inserted my own insole, does that remove the sliding problem or will the bottom of my insole slide, as well?

edit:  Additionally, would the 'waterproof' upper tend to lessen the amount of dirt that would go inside the shoe?

I was shot last month.

The sliding issue for me was mostly due to my odd foot shape and the fact that I wasn't able to get a good lock-down with the laces. There are other shoes that happens in (a lot of otherwise very good trail shoes, in fact), so it probably isn't an issue for a lot of people.

Even so, if you have a contoured insole, that'll probably help keep your foot in place.

I hadn't thought about dirt intrusion, but you may be on to something with the waterproof upper as a barrier to dust and sand.

Good job on the 16-miler. Be nice to those heels!

Gotcha.  You know, most of the people that didn't like the 3.0 were for the same reason as yours, being the foot wasn't getting locked down. 

As far as my heels, I read in the "Fixing the Feet" book that as one gets into the 50's and 60's, the feet widen, the feet get flatter, and they have less cushion.  So, I'm willing to accept that a partial cause for my heels hurting is that I don't have as much cushion around the plantar fascia, resulting in acute heel pain.

In my case, I had some discomfort during the run at mile 15.  After the run, both heels hurt after sitting/resting for a few minutes, but stopped after a few minutes of walking, leading me to think that it's the plantar that is bearing more of the heel striking than whatever cushion was there 5 or 10 years ago.  This morning, I got up in the middle of the night and both heels were tight.  I could only take baby steps, but after a few minutes of walking, my heels loosened up.  I went back to bed and woke up without any tightness and striding normally.

Typically, a bruise doesn't resolve itself that quickly.  And so goes my research.

The way my schedule for running is, I run Monday for around half the distance of the long run (a sorta long run), Wednesday's for hill work and Friday's for the long run.  Almost every other Saturday, I'll go to Brazos Bend State Park to attempt to run half of Friday's long run for the purpose of having back-to-back runs. 

An intensive (from my leg's point of view) hill workout two weeks ago caused enough residual damage to make the 14 mile long run on that Friday to be tougher than it should have been.

So, I'm thinking about making the hill (later on a cadence workout - think speed workout but just increasing the cadence) workout on Mondays and the sorta long run on Wednesday (like many do) so the hill workout won't affect the long run.  I think it's okay for the long runs to affect the hill workout.

What's wrong with my thinking?

Nothing is wrong with that thinking.  I do speed or tempo work on Tuesday so as to separate it from long run work on Friday or Saturday.  Hey, we aren't that young anymore and our bodies will appreciate it more.

Do you have time or do you already do work in the gym?  Consider leg work - quads, hammies, calves and hips to help with the knee issues.  Even 15 min can help greatly.

I think your plan sounds fine.  I usually do my long runs on Saturday.  Sunday is a rest day.  Monday cross training. Tuesday speed.  Wednesday cross.  Thursday sorta-long or tempo.  Friday cross.

I agree with Michele...even a few minutes of work to strengthen the muscles around the knee would be beneficial.  You don't even have to go to the gym...you can do them it at home.

Do what works best for your body and your schedule.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Nothing is wrong with that thinking.  I do speed or tempo work on Tuesday so as to separate it from long run work on Friday or Saturday.  Hey, we aren't that young anymore and our bodies will appreciate it more.

Do you have time or do you already do work in the gym?  Consider leg work - quads, hammies, calves and hips to help with the knee issues.  Even 15 min can help greatly.

Thanks, Miche1e.  I do have some time, but my 'hill' work is running parking garage ramps, then walking 8 flights of stairs x 2.   I do need to do core work.  Half of what Mark does would be nice.

nkrichards wrote:I think your plan sounds fine.  I usually do my long runs on Saturday.  Sunday is a rest day.  Monday cross training. Tuesday speed.  Wednesday cross.  Thursday sorta-long or tempo.  Friday cross.

I agree with Michele...even a few minutes of work to strengthen the muscles around the knee would be beneficial.  You don't even have to go to the gym...you can do them it at home.

Do what works best for your body and your schedule.

Thanks, Nancy.  I'm very pleased with the status of the left knee.  Around mile 3 of the 16 mile run, I decided the left knee was well enough to run the long run like a long run for a marathon and not a I-hope-it-stays-together run.  After the run, the left knee was tired, but it wasn't hurting. 

I'll see what I can do about the weights.

Mark, I've seen some runners run a 50 mile with two pairs of socks - 1 thin pair of Injinji's against the tootsie and another pair that's a little thicker to keep sand 'n dirt from getting on the foot.  thoughts?

With 63 degrees outside, I did the hill work at the parking garage, this morning.  It was the first time that I ran the entire parking garage.  Then I did the 8 flights of stairs x 2.  The run went well, including the 1.2 miles to and from.  No pain.  No muss.  No fuss.

Tomorrow, the idea will be 8 miles.

This morning, I ran 8 miles as the sorta long run before Friday's sure enough long run.  It was 65 degrees with the same dewpoint.  I decided that during a run, I'm fully functional, which is really nice since it's been since April when everything was working together and transparent to the user.

As a result, I can work at a faster pace.  With twelve weeks until Houston on January 15, I'm actually a week or so ahead of schedule on long runs at 16 miles.  So, running is good.

I did work at a faster pace.  The 8 miles were executed at an average 13:26 pace, with a 13:31 1st half pace and a 13:21 2nd half pace.  The heart was beating a little more, but the breathing was spot on, as were the legs.  So, the heart is just going to have to catch up and I am not concerned with the heart being able to catch up.

I think that I'm going to get up to 20 mile long runs by the 2nd weekend in November and run 20-24's through the end of the year, except for the 30K race on Dec 11, and continue to run out at Brazos Bend, when the schedule permits, after a long run.  I might even run a 20-something long run at Brazos Bend as it might just lessen the damage (well, we know it will).

Also, not re-injuring myself is paramount to executing the running goals.  Thanks for your time.

ounce wrote:Mark, I've seen some runners run a 50 mile with two pairs of socks - 1 thin pair of Injinji's against the tootsie and another pair that's a little thicker to keep sand 'n dirt from getting on the foot.  thoughts?

I've never tried that, but I know it's not uncommon. And I think that's probably an excellent idea for running Javelina. Also, you'll probably want gaiters, as well, to keep the junk from getting into the shoes in the first place.

You're on track to hit your goals, and you're wise to remember the paramount goal: Get to the starting line in one piece.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:Mark, I've seen some runners run a 50 mile with two pairs of socks - 1 thin pair of Injinji's against the tootsie and another pair that's a little thicker to keep sand 'n dirt from getting on the foot.  thoughts?

I've never tried that, but I know it's not uncommon. And I think that's probably an excellent idea for running Javelina. Also, you'll probably want gaiters, as well, to keep the junk from getting into the shoes in the first place.

You're on track to hit your goals, and you're wise to remember the paramount goal: Get to the starting line in one piece.

What about using gaiters? to keep out the sand?  I've used them quite successfully in the past.  

https://dirtygirlgaiters.com/

I might also suggest covering your feet with Aquaphor or a similar product before putting on your socks.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:Mark, I've seen some runners run a 50 mile with two pairs of socks - 1 thin pair of Injinji's against the tootsie and another pair that's a little thicker to keep sand 'n dirt from getting on the foot.  thoughts?

I've never tried that, but I know it's not uncommon. And I think that's probably an excellent idea for running Javelina. Also, you'll probably want gaiters, as well, to keep the junk from getting into the shoes in the first place.

You're on track to hit your goals, and you're wise to remember the paramount goal: Get to the starting line in one piece.

What about using gaiters? to keep out the sand?  I've used them quite successfully in the past.  

https://dirtygirlgaiters.com/

I might also suggest covering your feet with Aquaphor or a similar product before putting on your socks.

I have no problem with using gaiters, I just haven't bought any yet.  1L, I have a book called "Fixing Your Feet" and they have some pretty gnarly looking feet in there.

I have used vaseline on my feet, when it's raining, with success.

For the JJ100, this weekend, the high for Saturday afternoon is to be 92 degrees.  They have a High pressure squatting over them.  The RD said in a video for this year's entrants that 92 is fairly usual.  Jeez, that makes me want to walk in the daylight and run in the dark...as I sit here thinking about it in the A/C.

I have the same book - lol.  Someone gave it to me as a XMas joke at a running XMas party.  I actually think there is some good info there.

Anyway, I do the Aquaphor trick for every race/run over 15 miles - even if the weather is perfect as my feet sweat a lot and it works to prevent blisters.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I have the same book - lol.  Someone gave it to me as a XMas joke at a running XMas party.  I actually think there is some good info there.

Anyway, I do the Aquaphor trick for every race/run over 15 miles - even if the weather is perfect as my feet sweat a lot and it works to prevent blisters.

Oh, there's a lot of good info in there.  The newest edition was released recently.  In fact, the amazon 'preview' piece of the book is the WHOLE book.

My feet don't sweat much, unless it's summer.  Just this month, I've received two blisters on the 4th toe of each foot, so I'm loosening up the laces a bit.  But, I'll keep your Aquaphor in mind.  I do have some.

-30-

Yesterday evening, I received the Altra Lone Star 2.0.  They seem to fit fine, although I do notice the heel not being higher than the forefoot.  More room in the toe box, as advertised, but I haven't inserted the inner sole, yet.  Any special break-in procedures on these shoes, Mark, other than the usual wear and feel?

I might run 20 miles, tomorrow.  Game time decision.  Looks like low 60's again, too, which I can work with for that distance.

ounce wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I have the same book - lol.  Someone gave it to me as a XMas joke at a running XMas party.  I actually think there is some good info there.

Anyway, I do the Aquaphor trick for every race/run over 15 miles - even if the weather is perfect as my feet sweat a lot and it works to prevent blisters.

Oh, there's a lot of good info in there.  The newest edition was released recently.  In fact, the amazon 'preview' piece of the book is the WHOLE book.

My feet don't sweat much, unless it's summer.  Just this month, I've received two blisters on the 4th toe of each foot, so I'm loosening up the laces a bit.  But, I'll keep your Aquaphor in mind.  I do have some.

-30-

Yesterday evening, I received the Altra Lone Star 2.0.  They seem to fit fine, although I do notice the heel not being higher than the forefoot.  More room in the toe box, as advertised, but I haven't inserted the inner sole, yet.  Any special break-in procedures on these shoes, Mark, other than the usual wear and feel?

I might run 20 miles, tomorrow.  Game time decision.  Looks like low 60's again, too, which I can work with for that distance.

If you've never run in zero drop shoes, they do suggest a transition period. Here is Altra's transition guide.

If you get blistering on your toes, you may want try Injinji socks if you haven't already. I've heard they solve the problem of inter-toe blistering for many people. Besides, they look cool.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I have the same book - lol.  Someone gave it to me as a XMas joke at a running XMas party.  I actually think there is some good info there.

Anyway, I do the Aquaphor trick for every race/run over 15 miles - even if the weather is perfect as my feet sweat a lot and it works to prevent blisters.

Oh, there's a lot of good info in there.  The newest edition was released recently.  In fact, the amazon 'preview' piece of the book is the WHOLE book.

My feet don't sweat much, unless it's summer.  Just this month, I've received two blisters on the 4th toe of each foot, so I'm loosening up the laces a bit.  But, I'll keep your Aquaphor in mind.  I do have some.

-30-

Yesterday evening, I received the Altra Lone Star 2.0.  They seem to fit fine, although I do notice the heel not being higher than the forefoot.  More room in the toe box, as advertised, but I haven't inserted the inner sole, yet.  Any special break-in procedures on these shoes, Mark, other than the usual wear and feel?

I might run 20 miles, tomorrow.  Game time decision.  Looks like low 60's again, too, which I can work with for that distance.

If you've never run in zero drop shoes, they do suggest a transition period. Here is Altra's transition guide.

If you get blistering on your toes, you may want try Injinji socks if you haven't already. I've heard they solve the problem of inter-toe blistering for many people. Besides, they look cool.

I'll check the guide out.  My toe issue is rubbing against the upper.  Good for me my toes have been properly integrated for almost 60 years, even before desegregation became the law.  Bless my lil toes.

Wellllll, 20 didn't happen this morning.  It was a confluence of little things before taking that first step that ultimately de-railed this run at 2.88 miles.  Too soon to know if I'll run on Saturday morning.

Sorry to hear your 20 wasn't in the cards this morning...you've been progressing nicely.  Sometimes life just gets in the way I guess.  Hope Saturday goes better...

No worries on the 20 miler flameout. Just keep working the plan, and don't worry about trying to "make it up" at this point.