Re: Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com

nkrichards Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:25 pm

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:There's a way to get your cadence up pretty quickly, but it involves going barefoot. That encourages your feet to turn over faster instinctively, because your body is trying to lessen the impact of the foot strike. I got up to about 192 at one point during my run.

For me, the lower impact has been the real payoff for the higher cadence.
That might could work inside or on a clean high school track, but not on the streets of Houston. Pine cones, pebbles, rocks, dirt clods, crushed granite, broken glass, etc. Which doesn't take into account the asphalt and concrete, nails and bolts, the weeds with hidden stuff, nor the new pavement 'bubbles' at an intersection so the blind with their cane can feel where they're going on a sidewalk. But I'll see what I can do.

-30-

Quickly (which means no splits), I finished the 9 miles in the warmest feeling morning in many weeks. 78 degrees with a dewpoint of 71 gave me my first squishy shoes of the year, although it wasn't noticed until untying my shoes.

The first 3 miles were ran at a cadence of 161. I figured the start was the best place to bump it from 160. The last 6 were set at 160. I was so determined to reach out and keep the cadence to mile 8, which would be an improvement of 2 miles. I accomplished that. Mile 9 was at 155 spm and the average spm was 159. I think if I had a S!Cap on me, that I could've done better on mile 9.

Numbers to follow. Overall pace was 14:41.

9 miles, 2:12:13, 14:41 pace, 159 avg cadence, 0.69 m avg stride length, the ruby slippers.
1. 14:14, 160 spm, 71 sl
2. 13:59, 161 spm, 72 sl
3. 14:22, 160 spm, 70 sl
4. 14:21, 159 spm, 71 sl
5. 14:44, 159 spm, 69 sl
6. 14:54, 159 spm, 68 sl
7. 15:13, 158 spm, 67 sl
8. 15:08, 158 spm, 67 sl
9. 15:18, 155 spm, 68 sl

Those are the numbers. It took me a little more than 3 miles to get into a groove. Before the groove, the knee was teasing me on how far to go. I had walked a bit, yesterday, and last night it was starting to bug me. So, confidence in the beginning was fleeting. Once I reached about 3.5 miles, things got into sync. Breathing was effortless, HR was not thumping, and the legs were compliant. In fact, breathing was the easiest part of the whole run. The legs would sway from time to time, but I worked on mid-foot strike and following a line.

I stopped a couple of times for traffic, mostly. I always stop the watch, when I stop. The legs were tired in the last mile. 17 miles for the week.

I think I'm going to change the mid-week run from a cadence work run to a hill run. If I gradually work on the degree of incline, then I think I can do it with little detriment and setback. I think I'll try the parking garage for the theater on Wednesday.

Y'all have a nice weekend.

I don't get the barefoot thing either Doug. I live on a gravel road!

Nice run!! That's a big increase in mileage and you held up well. Looking good.

Mark B Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:15 am

nkrichards wrote:
ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:There's a way to get your cadence up pretty quickly, but it involves going barefoot. That encourages your feet to turn over faster instinctively, because your body is trying to lessen the impact of the foot strike. I got up to about 192 at one point during my run.

For me, the lower impact has been the real payoff for the higher cadence.
That might could work inside or on a clean high school track, but not on the streets of Houston. Pine cones, pebbles, rocks, dirt clods, crushed granite, broken glass, etc. Which doesn't take into account the asphalt and concrete, nails and bolts, the weeds with hidden stuff, nor the new pavement 'bubbles' at an intersection so the blind with their cane can feel where they're going on a sidewalk. But I'll see what I can do.

-30-

Quickly (which means no splits), I finished the 9 miles in the warmest feeling morning in many weeks. 78 degrees with a dewpoint of 71 gave me my first squishy shoes of the year, although it wasn't noticed until untying my shoes.

The first 3 miles were ran at a cadence of 161. I figured the start was the best place to bump it from 160. The last 6 were set at 160. I was so determined to reach out and keep the cadence to mile 8, which would be an improvement of 2 miles. I accomplished that. Mile 9 was at 155 spm and the average spm was 159. I think if I had a S!Cap on me, that I could've done better on mile 9.

Numbers to follow. Overall pace was 14:41.

9 miles, 2:12:13, 14:41 pace, 159 avg cadence, 0.69 m avg stride length, the ruby slippers.
1. 14:14, 160 spm, 71 sl
2. 13:59, 161 spm, 72 sl
3. 14:22, 160 spm, 70 sl
4. 14:21, 159 spm, 71 sl
5. 14:44, 159 spm, 69 sl
6. 14:54, 159 spm, 68 sl
7. 15:13, 158 spm, 67 sl
8. 15:08, 158 spm, 67 sl
9. 15:18, 155 spm, 68 sl

Those are the numbers. It took me a little more than 3 miles to get into a groove. Before the groove, the knee was teasing me on how far to go. I had walked a bit, yesterday, and last night it was starting to bug me. So, confidence in the beginning was fleeting. Once I reached about 3.5 miles, things got into sync. Breathing was effortless, HR was not thumping, and the legs were compliant. In fact, breathing was the easiest part of the whole run. The legs would sway from time to time, but I worked on mid-foot strike and following a line.

I stopped a couple of times for traffic, mostly. I always stop the watch, when I stop. The legs were tired in the last mile. 17 miles for the week.

I think I'm going to change the mid-week run from a cadence work run to a hill run. If I gradually work on the degree of incline, then I think I can do it with little detriment and setback. I think I'll try the parking garage for the theater on Wednesday.

Y'all have a nice weekend.

I don't get the barefoot thing either Doug. I live on a gravel road!

Nice run!! That's a big increase in mileage and you held up well. Looking good.

You just don't get it. Gravel is one of the BEST places to learn how to barefoot. You have no choice but land as gently as possible. It's the best form teacher available. Honest!

Okay, so nobody's listening, I know, I'll just let myself out ....

ounce Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:34 am

Well,

it's

not

that

we're

skeptical

it's

just

that

I

don't

think

it's

something

I

should

do

during

training

for

a

marathon.

Mark B Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:05 pm

ounce wrote:Well, it's not that we're skeptical it's just that I don't think it's something I should do during training for a marathon.

Well, as long as you're not skeptical. geek

ounce Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:45 pm

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:Well, it's not that we're skeptical it's just that I don't think it's something I should do during training for a marathon.

Well, as long as you're not skeptical.

If Trump wins, he'll embargo all foreign-made running shoes under "Let's Make America Shoeless Again!"

Mark B Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:02 am

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:Well, it's not that we're skeptical it's just that I don't think it's something I should do during training for a marathon.

Well, as long as you're not skeptical.
If Trump wins, he'll embargo all foreign-made running shoes under "Let's Make America Shoeless Again!"

Say it ain't so, Joe!

No, you shouldn't toss your shoes right now. But if you wanted to play around with a little bare footing as a form drill? Well, that's something else altogether.

nkrichards Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:17 pm

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:Well, it's not that we're skeptical it's just that I don't think it's something I should do during training for a marathon.

Well, as long as you're not skeptical.
If Trump wins, he'll embargo all foreign-made running shoes under "Let's Make America Shoeless Again!"

Say it ain't so, Joe!

No, you shouldn't toss your shoes right now. But if you wanted to play around with a little bare footing as a form drill? Well, that's something else altogether.

My problem is that I seem to always be training for something so I'm never willing to try anything new. Barefoot...not right now. Cadence work...maybe later. Low HR...maybe during base building. Different shoes...but these are working. I'm sure that I could be a better runner if I was a bit more willing to step outside the box occasionally...

Michele "1L" Keane Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:56 am

nkrichards wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:Well, it's not that we're skeptical it's just that I don't think it's something I should do during training for a marathon.

Well, as long as you're not skeptical.
If Trump wins, he'll embargo all foreign-made running shoes under "Let's Make America Shoeless Again!"

Say it ain't so, Joe!

No, you shouldn't toss your shoes right now. But if you wanted to play around with a little bare footing as a form drill? Well, that's something else altogether.

My problem is that I seem to always be training for something so I'm never willing to try anything new. Barefoot...not right now. Cadence work...maybe later. Low HR...maybe during base building. Different shoes...but these are working. I'm sure that I could be a better runner if I was a bit more willing to step outside the box occasionally...

You can try other for drills that involve wearing shoes, you know. Or, if shoeless is your choice find a nice football field with turf.

ounce Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:33 pm

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:
nkrichards wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:Well, it's not that we're skeptical it's just that I don't think it's something I should do during training for a marathon.

Well, as long as you're not skeptical.
If Trump wins, he'll embargo all foreign-made running shoes under "Let's Make America Shoeless Again!"

Say it ain't so, Joe!

No, you shouldn't toss your shoes right now. But if you wanted to play around with a little bare footing as a form drill? Well, that's something else altogether.

My problem is that I seem to always be training for something so I'm never willing to try anything new. Barefoot...not right now. Cadence work...maybe later. Low HR...maybe during base building. Different shoes...but these are working. I'm sure that I could be a better runner if I was a bit more willing to step outside the box occasionally...
You can try other for drills that involve wearing shoes, you know. Or, if shoeless is your choice find a nice football field with turf.

ounce Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:22 am

This morning, I ran 5 miles when the temp was 78 degrees with a dewpoint of 75. I increased the cadence to 161, up 1 spm. It had been 4 days since I last ran. You may remember that I ran the first 3 miles of last Friday's 9 mile run at the 161 cadence. So, I thought it'd be appropriate to try it this morning. It worked pretty well. While my knee seemed to whine a bit more than normal, it's possible it could've been the white 'n yellow 5's and/or not running straight enough. I'll post the numbers later.

But first, September means that the heat will start lessening after the 15th. This week, we're actually going to be seasonal at 93 degrees. I've always held a morning low of 65 degrees as the point of when my times start to suck at the beginning of the summer. Coincidentally, a chart surfaced on a local weather website, not associated with a TV station, about when in September Houston hits 65 degrees that goes back to the 1890's.

Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com - Page 20 First65MinTemp

Voice Cat LLC & voice-cat.com - Page 20 First65MinTemp

nkrichards Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:31 am

ounce wrote:This morning, I ran 5 miles when the temp was 78 degrees with a dewpoint of 75. I increased the cadence to 161, up 1 spm. It had been 4 days since I last ran. You may remember that I ran the first 3 miles of last Friday's 9 mile run at the 161 cadence. So, I thought it'd be appropriate to try it this morning. It worked pretty well. While my knee seemed to whine a bit more than normal, it's possible it could've been the white 'n yellow 5's and/or not running straight enough. I'll post the numbers later.

But first, September means that the heat will start lessening after the 15th. This week, we're actually going to be seasonal at 93 degrees. I've always held a morning low of 65 degrees as the point of when my times start to suck at the beginning of the summer. Coincidentally, a chart surfaced on a local weather website, not associated with a TV station, about when in September Houston hits 65 degrees that goes back to the 1890's.

That's kind of a fun chart. Here's hoping that you hit 65 earlier than average...

Mark B Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:53 am

nkrichards wrote:
ounce wrote:This morning, I ran 5 miles when the temp was 78 degrees with a dewpoint of 75. I increased the cadence to 161, up 1 spm. It had been 4 days since I last ran. You may remember that I ran the first 3 miles of last Friday's 9 mile run at the 161 cadence. So, I thought it'd be appropriate to try it this morning. It worked pretty well. While my knee seemed to whine a bit more than normal, it's possible it could've been the white 'n yellow 5's and/or not running straight enough. I'll post the numbers later.

But first, September means that the heat will start lessening after the 15th. This week, we're actually going to be seasonal at 93 degrees. I've always held a morning low of 65 degrees as the point of when my times start to suck at the beginning of the summer. Coincidentally, a chart surfaced on a local weather website, not associated with a TV station, about when in September Houston hits 65 degrees that goes back to the 1890's.

That's kind of a fun chart. Here's hoping that you hit 65 earlier than average...

+1 on that. Having to wait until Oct. 11 would be awful.

ounce Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:58 pm

Mark B wrote:
nkrichards wrote:
ounce wrote:This morning, I ran 5 miles when the temp was 78 degrees with a dewpoint of 75. I increased the cadence to 161, up 1 spm. It had been 4 days since I last ran. You may remember that I ran the first 3 miles of last Friday's 9 mile run at the 161 cadence. So, I thought it'd be appropriate to try it this morning. It worked pretty well. While my knee seemed to whine a bit more than normal, it's possible it could've been the white 'n yellow 5's and/or not running straight enough. I'll post the numbers later.

But first, September means that the heat will start lessening after the 15th. This week, we're actually going to be seasonal at 93 degrees. I've always held a morning low of 65 degrees as the point of when my times start to suck at the beginning of the summer. Coincidentally, a chart surfaced on a local weather website, not associated with a TV station, about when in September Houston hits 65 degrees that goes back to the 1890's.

That's kind of a fun chart. Here's hoping that you hit 65 earlier than average...

+1 on that. Having to wait until Oct. 11 would be awful.

What sucks is having 1 65 degree morning, then 10 days of 70's again.

So, Tuesday was the 5 mile at 161 cadence morning run. Here are the splits.
5 miles, 1:09:33, 13:54 pace, 160 avg cadence, 0.72 m avg stride length
1. 13:54, 160 spm, 72 sl
2. 13:44, 161 spm, 73 sl
3. 14:17, 160 spm, 70 sl
4. 13:54, 161 spm, 72 sl
5. 13:42, 161 spm, 73 sl

You know, I'm starting to think that things are melding together for the first time this summer.

ounce Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:23 pm

You may remember that a month or so ago, Wednesdays was my attempt at 'cadence work' or 'fart-cadence' (maybe that should be 'cadence-lek' instead). Anyway, now that marathon training season is upon me, I am replacing fart-cadence with 'hill' work for Wednesdays. I was going to go to a parking garage connected to a theater, but at 5-6 a.m. Houston drivers are not really paying attention to what might be in front of them.

So, I drove to the area around Buffalo Bayou that's a couple of miles from downtown and ran the ups and downs that were presented for a total of 3 miles. I could do 6-8 miles of gentle rises and falls, when I need to do that. And when I type 'gentle' it means 'gentle' from a flatlander's perspective (the Elevation Gain was 42 feet). It was 76 degrees with a dewpoint of 74. I went at a cadence of 161.

3 miles, 40:56, 13:37 pace, 159 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length
1. 14:08, 158 spm, 72 sl
2. 13:15, 160 spm, 76 sl
3. 13:30, 159 spm, 75 sl

I was huffin' a little bit, but the ground is not flat, so that was to be expected. The knee was no problem and I wore the yellow 5's. I also wore the 2-in-1 Brooks shorts. They did fine, but the manufacturing defect will cause them to be returned for another pair and more testing.

This week was supposed to be a step back week, but I decided that I had nothing from where I needed to step back. 10 miles on Friday.

I have an elevation question on JJ. Is 800 feet over 10 miles, then down 800 over 10 miles * 3 laps a big deal?

Thanks for stopping by. Please pick up your Whataburger coupon, on your way out.

Michele "1L" Keane Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:56 pm

In response to the elevation question - nope not a big deal.

Julie Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:50 am

I hope things cool off soon. It was 94 heat index yesterday afternoon here but I spied 50 for a low in the 10 day forecast .

ounce Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:38 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:In response to the elevation question - nope not a big deal.

Thanks, Miche1e! I'm sure the running down and up the various dry creek beds (which aren't supposed to be deep) will be an animal to itself.

Julie wrote:I hope things cool off soon. It was 94 heat index yesterday afternoon here but I spied 50 for a low in the 10 day forecast .

Thanks for stopping by, Julie. I'd love a 94 heat index, as we're around 100-102 heat index. I hope y'all get that 50!

Mark B Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:57 pm

ounce wrote:I have an elevation question on JJ. Is 800 feet over 10 miles, then down 800 over 10 miles * 3 laps a big deal?

Well, you'll feel it... but it's doable. The question will be how the elevation change comes. Is it a gradual incline, a medium steepish hill or two, or a bunch of short steep ups and downs? If you can find that out, you can train for it. It'll make a huge difference.

ounce Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:38 pm

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:I have an elevation question on JJ. Is 800 feet over 10 miles, then down 800 over 10 miles * 3 laps a big deal?

Well, you'll feel it... but it's doable. The question will be how the elevation change comes. Is it a gradual incline, a medium steepish hill or two, or a bunch of short steep ups and downs? If you can find that out, you can train for it. It'll make a huge difference.

Above rainbow is based on 100K.
Here's a link for a birds eye view of the course, based on 100 mile route (2 more loops).
http://aravaiparunning.com/network/javelinajundred/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/02/Javelina-Jundred-2016-Map.jpg

Course Description
The race begins at the Four Peaks Staging Area and heads down the Shallmo wash. The trail crosses McDowell Mountain Park Drive a little bit later and continues with more undulating hills. In the next mile, the trail crosses several very sandy areas including Pemberton Wash.

Continuing past the Tonto Tank Trail junction and the sandy area, the trail makes a sharp turn to the left at the base of long hill. A short while later, the trail curves to the right and begins to ascend the hill. You will see the Coyote Camp aid station at the junction with a park service road on the left. The next couple of miles are a steady climb up very rocky trail. There are large rocks embedded in the trail and smaller rocks loosely covering the trail. The rocks soon subside and the trail evens out as it turns north approaching the McDowell Mountains. The hills and valleys become more significant at this point.

The next section of trail dips in and out of even larger sandy washes and desert drainages as the trail continues to head north. There will be many times where you lose and gain anywhere from 20 to 50 feet of elevation. The trail here is a bit narrow and there are some round logs placed in the trail to prevent erosion which you must run over, but it is mostly clear of the rocks present in the first section.

You will wind through the desert and around some neat boulder formations before dropping down near Granite Tank, the location of the Jackass Junction Aid Station. From there, you will take the newly re-aligned (2013) Pemberton Trail leaving the Jackass aid station which winds parallel to the old Pemberton trail jeep road. This section is a gradually downhill single track that winds to the next aid station located at the North road crossing.

The Rattlesnake Ranch Aid Station (sponsored by Surprise Running Club) is located on the south side of the road crossing. From here the first loop takes you along the Escondido trail back to Javelina Jeadquarters. The other loops will take have you continue along the Pemberton trail to the Cinch trail which will take you to Javelina Jeadquarters.

Mark B Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:37 pm

Ah. So it's the whole grab bag off hills, then. Rollers, steep ups and downs, and a big climb.

Train on as many hills as you can find, even if it means cranking a treadmill incline up. You'll thank yourself for it. And you'll want to be sure to train downhills, as well. Very important.

ounce Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:22 am

Mark B wrote:Ah. So it's the whole grab bag off hills, then. Rollers, steep ups and downs, and a big climb.

Train on as many hills as you can find, even if it means cranking a treadmill incline up. You'll thank yourself for it. And you'll want to be sure to train downhills, as well. Very important.

Much obliged, sir. I'll use the info.

-30-

Bad news on the running front. I could only run 3 of the scheduled 10, this morning. The left knee squawked to the point of a sharp pain, so I had to stop. Then I limped 3 miles home. Two hours later, I still limp. I now have a prima donna for a left knee and no swelling.

Mark B Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:10 am

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:Ah. So it's the whole grab bag off hills, then. Rollers, steep ups and downs, and a big climb.

Train on as many hills as you can find, even if it means cranking a treadmill incline up. You'll thank yourself for it. And you'll want to be sure to train downhills, as well. Very important.
Much obliged, sir. I'll use the info.

-30-

Bad news on the running front. I could only run 3 of the scheduled 10, this morning. The left knee squawked to the point of a sharp pain, so I had to stop. Then I limped 3 miles home. Two hours later, I still limp. I now have a prima donna for a left knee and no swelling.

Arg. Knees. So aggravating. Sorry.

Michele "1L" Keane Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:56 pm

What Mark said regarding those hills. Not a lot of elevation change, but done in a combination of steep and gradual. Practice those parking lot ramps!

ounce Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:24 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:What Mark said regarding those hills. Not a lot of elevation change, but done in a combination of steep and gradual. Practice those parking lot ramps!

I'll work on finding those non-flat areas. Thanks, y'all.

-30-

This morning, the knee is allowing me to walk without much discomfort. Yesterday was not so good. I adjusted my stride so much that a spot in my calf is overused, but I know that will abate as the knee discomfort and stride return to something more normal.

There's no swelling, but it'll take a while to settle down. I wonder if the pain is on a ligament that's attaching a muscle to the top of the shin bone. Oh, well, doesn't much matter as it needs some rest. I did hit it with the TENS last night.

nkrichards Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:50 pm

Uh oh...not what I expected to read. Hope the knee has settled down a bit with a couple days of rest...

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