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nkrichards wrote:

ounce wrote:I did weights on Wednesday morning and it went well.  Regarding the knee, I did the rower for the full 5 warm up minutes and was able to do the pigeon pose with the right knee tucked for the full two minutes without any issue whatsoever.  No pain, this morning, too.

Looks like next week can be the restarting of running activities.

Your discussion with Mark is all to technical for me.  I'm just glad to hear it was a pain free morning and I'm looking forward to running reports as you restart those activities next week.

I, too, am looking forward to some running reports.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Glad to see that you're healing up. Based on your symptoms, it sounds like you may have irritated the underside of your kneecap. That's happened to me before, and things that put a lot of force on the kneecap tend to make it squawk.

My sports medicine guy said that (in my case at least), doing squats to 20-30 degrees of flexion would be sufficient to work the quads and glutes without torquing the ol' patella needlessly. A thought anyway.

It very well could be.  But you made me curious enough to look at a picture of knee anatomy.

So, the original point of impact would appear to be the ITB or below and lateral of the patella...like 7:30 of the patella.

The residual pain that happens when I squat is medial to the hamstring tendon.  I guess in proximity to the lateral gastrocnemis.  The front of the knee doesn't hurt.

But that's the location of the discomfort.  It loosens up after some movement, but stretching I haven't tried.  Thanks, Mark.

Oh, it's the posterior knee area bothering you. I'd thought it was the kneecap area. Hm. This was from an impact, right? How far below the crease of the knee pit is the discomfort? Sounds like you pulled something in your crash. Does your knee feel stable in all directions?

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:Glad to see that you're healing up. Based on your symptoms, it sounds like you may have irritated the underside of your kneecap. That's happened to me before, and things that put a lot of force on the kneecap tend to make it squawk.

My sports medicine guy said that (in my case at least), doing squats to 20-30 degrees of flexion would be sufficient to work the quads and glutes without torquing the ol' patella needlessly. A thought anyway.

It very well could be.  But you made me curious enough to look at a picture of knee anatomy.

So, the original point of impact would appear to be the ITB or below and lateral of the patella...like 7:30 of the patella.

The residual pain that happens when I squat is medial to the hamstring tendon.  I guess in proximity to the lateral gastrocnemis.  The front of the knee doesn't hurt.

But that's the location of the discomfort.  It loosens up after some movement, but stretching I haven't tried.  Thanks, Mark.

Oh, it's the posterior knee area bothering you. I'd thought it was the kneecap area. Hm. This was from an impact, right? How far below the crease of the knee pit is the discomfort? Sounds like you pulled something in your crash. Does your knee feel stable in all directions?

Initially, it was both sides, but Ground Zero's pain and swelling let go within two days.  The posterior side is where the pain is.  So, yes, I have a pain in the posterior...knee.  I would think the pain is at the crease or millimeters below the crease.  The knee feels absolutely stable. 

The only thing that I can figure is the swelling took up residence in the posterior part of the knee while sleeping that night, with gravity's help, into the lateral gastrocnemis.  There was restriction of movement, when bending the leg at the knee.  It took a couple of weeks for that to abate.  I could ALWAYS create some pain in the posterior by sitting in a chair...both feet on the ground...and do a simple bend & raise of the right lower leg to have the calf rest on the left thigh.  I believe the twist or torsion of the lower leg causes the lateral gastrocnemis to move the swelling in damaged muscle into a smaller area by the wringing type of torsion.

I can now do a body fold over movement and touch fingers to floor. 

I'll run a mile in the morning and see what happens later in the day.  It seems there's always a delay in determining how an action affects the knee, with this injury.

This morning, I ran 1 mile in 13:06 with my affliction only reminding me that I'm not fully healed.  No sharp pain and no trouble with stride.  My gnome (the metronome) was set at 170.  The first half was at a 13:45 pace, so I guess that makes the second half around 12:30.  Then, I had a cool down walk of a half mile.

Afterwards, I grabbed my bag of frozen peas and my TENS to give the back of my knee some love.

Regarding how long it has been since running, I found it humorous that I thought I was doing a 13 pace for the first half and doing more huffin' and puffin' on the last half for only running 1 mile.

If the back of my knee is doing well in the morning, I'll probably run 2 miles.  It felt nice getting on the road again.

Glad things are getting better.

Do you feel any lumps back there? If so, it's possible you've developed a Baker's cyst. They found one when they did the MRI on my knee (I never have been able to find a lump), and the doctor explained to me that edema from trauma in the knee area has to go somewhere, and that's usually where it collects. As I understand it, they're more a sign of injury than a problem on their own, though they can cause pain and discomfort if they get too big.

And isn't it amusing how fast fitness fades? At least, if you've been at it for a while beforehand, it comes back relatively quickly.

I am glad, as well.  Get to start from scratch again!  

I do not feel any lumps, when comparing the same location on the back of the left knee.  Thanks for the link.  I guess I'll be feeling and watching for some of the symptoms mentioned.

As this day flows by, there is the usual light rigor mortis feeling.  I've found that just standing and walking (mostly standing) relieves this rigor mortis stiffness.

ounce wrote:I am glad, as well.  Get to start from scratch again!  

I do not feel any lumps, when comparing the same location on the back of the left knee.  Thanks for the link.  I guess I'll be feeling and watching for some of the symptoms mentioned.

As this day flows by, there is the usual light rigor mortis feeling.  I've found that just standing and walking (mostly standing) relieves this rigor mortis stiffness.

Ah, rigor morits. Well, just remember to check your mirror regularly.

If you see something like this looking back at you...



Just go out for some brains, and you'll feel much better.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:I am glad, as well.  Get to start from scratch again!  

I do not feel any lumps, when comparing the same location on the back of the left knee.  Thanks for the link.  I guess I'll be feeling and watching for some of the symptoms mentioned.

As this day flows by, there is the usual light rigor mortis feeling.  I've found that just standing and walking (mostly standing) relieves this rigor mortis stiffness.

Ah, rigor morits. Well, just remember to check your mirror regularly.

If you see something like this looking back at you...



Just go out for some brains, and you'll feel much better.

I don't worry about those guys.  They don't like me for my dining habits.

This morning, the stiffness in the knee as I rolled out of bed wasn't bad at all.  I would even label it as minor.  So, I donned my running gear for a 2 mile run in 66 degree weather with no wind and 100% humidity.  I even put the HR strap on, but not before squirting a little WD-40 on the contact points that snap to the strap.  It did not help with registering an accurate HR in the first half mile, but was fine after that.

Running the same road as yesterday (just farther), I ran a 12:30 at 154 or so for the first mile and 12:19 in the 160's for the second.  Once I upload the data, I can edit these times.  Both HR's are much higher than normal, but it'll drop as I run more.  Actually, the second mile wasn't as huffy puffy as the HR would imply.

There was absolutely no discomfort in the right knee.  Perfectly transparent to the user, although my right hamstring must have some scar tissue because it would have much preferred being in bed.  Guess that I'll have to do that wishbone stretch that hurt so much, but felt so good.

Things are looking up!  I guess that I'm going to have to start thinking about blending a marathon schedule with a 50 mile schedule, with Julie's link as a framework.

We're supposed to be getting some much not needed rain tonight and tomorrow.  To date, we're about 8 inches above the normal track so far this year.  The graph is below.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:I am glad, as well.  Get to start from scratch again!  

I do not feel any lumps, when comparing the same location on the back of the left knee.  Thanks for the link.  I guess I'll be feeling and watching for some of the symptoms mentioned.

As this day flows by, there is the usual light rigor mortis feeling.  I've found that just standing and walking (mostly standing) relieves this rigor mortis stiffness.

Ah, rigor morits. Well, just remember to check your mirror regularly.

If you see something like this looking back at you...



Just go out for some brains, and you'll feel much better.

I don't worry about those guys.  They don't like me for my dining habits.

ounce wrote:This morning, the stiffness in the knee as I rolled out of bed wasn't bad at all.  I would even label it as minor.  So, I donned my running gear for a 2 mile run in 66 degree weather with no wind and 100% humidity.  I even put the HR strap on, but not before squirting a little WD-40 on the contact points that snap to the strap.  It did not help with registering an accurate HR in the first half mile, but was fine after that.

Running the same road as yesterday (just farther), I ran a 12:30 at 154 or so for the first mile and 12:19 in the 160's for the second.  Once I upload the data, I can edit these times.  Both HR's are much higher than normal, but it'll drop as I run more.  Actually, the second mile wasn't as huffy puffy as the HR would imply.

There was absolutely no discomfort in the right knee.  Perfectly transparent to the user, although my right hamstring must have some scar tissue because it would have much preferred being in bed.  Guess that I'll have to do that wishbone stretch that hurt so much, but felt so good.

Things are looking up!  I guess that I'm going to have to start thinking about blending a marathon schedule with a 50 mile schedule, with Julie's link as a framework.

We're supposed to be getting some much not needed rain tonight and tomorrow.  To date, we're about 8 inches above the normal track so far this year.  The graph is below.

Great news! Well, except for the whole turning-into-a-giant-bayou thing...

Well, we're going for #1 on the Zika front!  So far, south Florida is #1.   Aaaaaand hurricane season starts on June 1.

-30-

As an update to the two mile run this morning, I give these statistics.
2 miles, 24:47, 12:23 pace, avg HR 142 bpm, 171 bpm max HR during mile 2, 168 avg cadence, 0.77 m avg stride length.
1.  12:31, 122 bpm (haha), 168 spm, 76 sl
2.  12:14, 163 bpm, 168 spm, 78 sl

Yesterday's one mile run was at 13:09.

I think I'll go for 3 miles tomorrow, rest for Thursday, and run 5 on Friday, if the rain in the morning are not storms in the morning.

Well, sports fans, I did run the 3 miles, this morning.  Each morning, this week, has been part running and part acclimation to that lovely July and August dark:30 morning heat.  Not much sweating, but I am moist.  It was 68 degrees at 100% humidity.  We had a little shower roll through that I avoided.  The rain forecasted shifted about 40 miles south.  The rain to arrive Thursday morning has now been modeled to arrive Thursday mid-afternoon and rain until Friday lunch for just an inch or 2.  HRM still warms up to running HR rates.  I stopped twice, once at 1.5 miles and another before 2 miles, as shown below.

Heart Rate

Avg: 142 bpm[size=11]0.000.501.001.502.002.503.00[/size]

3 miles, 38:53, 12:57 pace, 142 avg bpm, 170 max bpm during mile 3, 168 avg spm, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  12:53, 106 bpm, 169 spm, 74 sl
2.  13:03, 158 bpm, 167 spm, 74 sl
3.  12:56, 165 bpm, 166 spm, 75 sl

I can always confirm how I'm feeling or performing by looking at the cadence.  Additionally at this early stage of running again, the heart rate also gives some indication as to performance.  The heart is having to work again, but will reach efficiency first.  I've seen it so many times when the HR is just be-bopping along but the cadence is slipping.  Fresh running, like now, will make the heart beat more because it's out of shape.

There was no pain in the knee and less whining from the right hamstring.  Sometime after this run, I performed the Wishbone Stretch (my name for it) on my hamstring to stretch out some of the bad crap.

As previously posted, I was thinking about running 5 miles on Friday.  I'm not there yet.  It's not a matter of lack of ketones, just out of shape.  So, I'll do another 3 miles.  I don't need the validation of running farther than 4 miles, yet.

On a separate topic, the product 'Vespa' is kinda like Gu for the LC/HF runners.  It ain't cheap, but it is supposed to help metabolize fat during long running or biking events, resulting in more energy.  Because of its cost, I've never tried it for a marathon.  Seems like it helps more for ultra runners and triathletes.  And since I'm courting a 50 mile run and a 100K run, next year, I'm looking at the website more (vespapower.com).

While perusing the OFM (Optimized Fat Metabolization - http://www.vespapower.com/ofm/what-is-ofm/) section of the website, I notice numerous, NUMEROUS! errors in the text.  The author doesn't use the comma enough.  I sent him a PM on FB and offered, free of charge, to go through the OFM section and edit it for him.  After narrating 20 books, authors just don't use a comma enough.  The following was the example I gave of a sentence needing a comma on his website, 
"Again, due to the fear of salt people..."


So, I'm going through it and since I'm not looking for him to pay me, he's offered me some Vespa and to ask him any questions that I want, on the phone.  THAT will be payment enough.  Mark may know a thing or two about the use of a comma.

ounce wrote:Well, sports fans, I did run the 3 miles, this morning.  Each morning, this week, has been part running and part acclimation to that lovely July and August dark:30 morning heat.  Not much sweating, but I am moist.  It was 68 degrees at 100% humidity.  We had a little shower roll through that I avoided.  The rain forecasted shifted about 40 miles south.  The rain to arrive Thursday morning has now been modeled to arrive Thursday mid-afternoon and rain until Friday lunch for just an inch or 2.  HRM still warms up to running HR rates.  I stopped twice, once at 1.5 miles and another before 2 miles, as shown below.

Heart Rate

Avg: 142 bpm[size=11]0.000.501.001.502.002.503.00[/size]

3 miles, 38:53, 12:57 pace, 142 avg bpm, 170 max bpm during mile 3, 168 avg spm, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  12:53, 106 bpm, 169 spm, 74 sl
2.  13:03, 158 bpm, 167 spm, 74 sl
3.  12:56, 165 bpm, 166 spm, 75 sl

I can always confirm how I'm feeling or performing by looking at the cadence.  Additionally at this early stage of running again, the heart rate also gives some indication as to performance.  The heart is having to work again, but will reach efficiency first.  I've seen it so many times when the HR is just be-bopping along but the cadence is slipping.  Fresh running, like now, will make the heart beat more because it's out of shape.

There was no pain in the knee and less whining from the right hamstring.  Sometime after this run, I performed the Wishbone Stretch (my name for it) on my hamstring to stretch out some of the bad crap.

As previously posted, I was thinking about running 5 miles on Friday.  I'm not there yet.  It's not a matter of lack of ketones, just out of shape.  So, I'll do another 3 miles.  I don't need the validation of running farther than 4 miles, yet.

On a separate topic, the product 'Vespa' is kinda like Gu for the LC/HF runners.  It ain't cheap, but it is supposed to help metabolize fat during long running or biking events, resulting in more energy.  Because of its cost, I've never tried it for a marathon.  Seems like it helps more for ultra runners and triathletes.  And since I'm courting a 50 mile run and a 100K run, next year, I'm looking at the website more (vespapower.com).

While perusing the OFM (Optimized Fat Metabolization - http://www.vespapower.com/ofm/what-is-ofm/) section of the website, I notice numerous, NUMEROUS! errors in the text.  The author doesn't use the comma enough.  I sent him a PM on FB and offered, free of charge, to go through the OFM section and edit it for him.  After narrating 20 books, authors just don't use a comma enough.  The following was the example I gave of a sentence needing a comma on his website, 
"Again, due to the fear of salt people..."


So, I'm going through it and since I'm not looking for him to pay me, he's offered me some Vespa and to ask him any questions that I want, on the phone.  THAT will be payment enough.  Mark may know a thing or two about the use of a comma.

Yes, I might.

Good job on the run. And 3 again on Friday sounds like the smart choice.

I wonder if "Vespa" the supplement would give you as much as a lift as the Vespa scooter...

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:Well, sports fans, I did run the 3 miles, this morning.  Each morning, this week, has been part running and part acclimation to that lovely July and August dark:30 morning heat.  Not much sweating, but I am moist.  It was 68 degrees at 100% humidity.  We had a little shower roll through that I avoided.  The rain forecasted shifted about 40 miles south.  The rain to arrive Thursday morning has now been modeled to arrive Thursday mid-afternoon and rain until Friday lunch for just an inch or 2.  HRM still warms up to running HR rates.  I stopped twice, once at 1.5 miles and another before 2 miles, as shown below.

Heart Rate

Avg: 142 bpm[size=11]0.000.501.001.502.002.503.00[/size]

3 miles, 38:53, 12:57 pace, 142 avg bpm, 170 max bpm during mile 3, 168 avg spm, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  12:53, 106 bpm, 169 spm, 74 sl
2.  13:03, 158 bpm, 167 spm, 74 sl
3.  12:56, 165 bpm, 166 spm, 75 sl

I can always confirm how I'm feeling or performing by looking at the cadence.  Additionally at this early stage of running again, the heart rate also gives some indication as to performance.  The heart is having to work again, but will reach efficiency first.  I've seen it so many times when the HR is just be-bopping along but the cadence is slipping.  Fresh running, like now, will make the heart beat more because it's out of shape.

There was no pain in the knee and less whining from the right hamstring.  Sometime after this run, I performed the Wishbone Stretch (my name for it) on my hamstring to stretch out some of the bad crap.

As previously posted, I was thinking about running 5 miles on Friday.  I'm not there yet.  It's not a matter of lack of ketones, just out of shape.  So, I'll do another 3 miles.  I don't need the validation of running farther than 4 miles, yet.

On a separate topic, the product 'Vespa' is kinda like Gu for the LC/HF runners.  It ain't cheap, but it is supposed to help metabolize fat during long running or biking events, resulting in more energy.  Because of its cost, I've never tried it for a marathon.  Seems like it helps more for ultra runners and triathletes.  And since I'm courting a 50 mile run and a 100K run, next year, I'm looking at the website more (vespapower.com).

While perusing the OFM (Optimized Fat Metabolization - http://www.vespapower.com/ofm/what-is-ofm/) section of the website, I notice numerous, NUMEROUS! errors in the text.  The author doesn't use the comma enough.  I sent him a PM on FB and offered, free of charge, to go through the OFM section and edit it for him.  After narrating 20 books, authors just don't use a comma enough.  The following was the example I gave of a sentence needing a comma on his website, 
"Again, due to the fear of salt people..."


So, I'm going through it and since I'm not looking for him to pay me, he's offered me some Vespa and to ask him any questions that I want, on the phone.  THAT will be payment enough.  Mark may know a thing or two about the use of a comma.

Yes, I might.

Good job on the run. And 3 again on Friday sounds like the smart choice.

I wonder if "Vespa" the supplement would give you as much as a lift as the Vespa scooter...

Hey Doug...it's nice to see the running reports again! 

Looks like you're making good progress and the knee is cooperating nicely. 

+1 on the decision to run 3 again on Friday.  Best not to ask to much of your body to soon...especially in the conditions that you're running in.

nkrichards wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:Well, sports fans, I did run the 3 miles, this morning.  Each morning, this week, has been part running and part acclimation to that lovely July and August dark:30 morning heat.  Not much sweating, but I am moist.  It was 68 degrees at 100% humidity.  We had a little shower roll through that I avoided.  The rain forecasted shifted about 40 miles south.  The rain to arrive Thursday morning has now been modeled to arrive Thursday mid-afternoon and rain until Friday lunch for just an inch or 2.  HRM still warms up to running HR rates.  I stopped twice, once at 1.5 miles and another before 2 miles, as shown below.

Heart Rate

Avg: 142 bpm[size=11]0.000.501.001.502.002.503.00[/size]

3 miles, 38:53, 12:57 pace, 142 avg bpm, 170 max bpm during mile 3, 168 avg spm, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  12:53, 106 bpm, 169 spm, 74 sl
2.  13:03, 158 bpm, 167 spm, 74 sl
3.  12:56, 165 bpm, 166 spm, 75 sl

I can always confirm how I'm feeling or performing by looking at the cadence.  Additionally at this early stage of running again, the heart rate also gives some indication as to performance.  The heart is having to work again, but will reach efficiency first.  I've seen it so many times when the HR is just be-bopping along but the cadence is slipping.  Fresh running, like now, will make the heart beat more because it's out of shape.

There was no pain in the knee and less whining from the right hamstring.  Sometime after this run, I performed the Wishbone Stretch (my name for it) on my hamstring to stretch out some of the bad crap.

As previously posted, I was thinking about running 5 miles on Friday.  I'm not there yet.  It's not a matter of lack of ketones, just out of shape.  So, I'll do another 3 miles.  I don't need the validation of running farther than 4 miles, yet.

On a separate topic, the product 'Vespa' is kinda like Gu for the LC/HF runners.  It ain't cheap, but it is supposed to help metabolize fat during long running or biking events, resulting in more energy.  Because of its cost, I've never tried it for a marathon.  Seems like it helps more for ultra runners and triathletes.  And since I'm courting a 50 mile run and a 100K run, next year, I'm looking at the website more (vespapower.com).

While perusing the OFM (Optimized Fat Metabolization - http://www.vespapower.com/ofm/what-is-ofm/) section of the website, I notice numerous, NUMEROUS! errors in the text.  The author doesn't use the comma enough.  I sent him a PM on FB and offered, free of charge, to go through the OFM section and edit it for him.  After narrating 20 books, authors just don't use a comma enough.  The following was the example I gave of a sentence needing a comma on his website, 
"Again, due to the fear of salt people..."


So, I'm going through it and since I'm not looking for him to pay me, he's offered me some Vespa and to ask him any questions that I want, on the phone.  THAT will be payment enough.  Mark may know a thing or two about the use of a comma.

Yes, I might.

Good job on the run. And 3 again on Friday sounds like the smart choice.

I wonder if "Vespa" the supplement would give you as much as a lift as the Vespa scooter...

Hey Doug...it's nice to see the running reports again! 

Looks like you're making good progress and the knee is cooperating nicely. 

+1 on the decision to run 3 again on Friday.  Best not to ask to much of your body to soon...especially in the conditions that you're running in.

Mark, you've given me an idea to pre-place a Vespa scooter on the race course somewhere, because it'll be going faster than I, in the late stages of that race.

Howdy, Nancy!  I'm glad to bring them back.  I can ramp up the weekly mileage slowly, since I have no races until December.

I have to figure out how to adapt the link that Julie provided for a 50M schedule to include the mid-January marathon.  The marathon is around 11 weeks ahead of Brazos Bend 50 (BB50).  Oddly enough the schedule calls for a 26 mile run on the weekend of Houston.  I also have to figure out taper and recovery.  Part of both will be influenced by whether I'm going to race the marathon or just run the marathon, with weight loss to be the wild card.

At this point, my racing schedule is:
December 2016 - 30K
January 2017 - Houston marathon
April 2017 - Brazos Bend 50 mile
Halloween weekend, 2017 - Javelina Jundred 100K
subject to change

This morning, I went to 24 hour fitness and lifted upper body weights, plus abductor/adductor.  Next week, I think I'll do running MWF and weights TTH.  I think there was a little degrading of both efforts by doing each every other week.

When I did pigeon pose, this morning, it was tough to get the right knee into position.  I didn't force it and managed to stay in the pose for a minute, but the left leg did the usual 2:30.

The knee hurts no worse than it did before I started running, this week.  It's the quick movements that seem to upset the afflicted area like, putting pants on or bringing my right leg up to rest on the left thigh.

3 miles in the morning.  Thanks for the input!

Three miles, this morning, was the plan and was the result.  It was 65 degrees with 100% humidity.  The objective was to further train the body back into running, to not get hurt, and to get acclimated to the heat.  Cadence was 170.

3 miles, 37:41, 12:33 pace, 145 avg bpm, 160 max bpm during mile 3, 168 avg spm, 0.76 m avg stride length
1.  12:48, 125 bpm, 169 spm, 75 sl
2.  12:33, 150 bpm, 169 spm, 76 sl
3.  12:16, 157 bpm, 167 spm, 79 sl

So, this was Wednesday morning's 3 mile run:
3 miles, 38:53, 12:57 pace, 142 avg bpm, 170 max bpm during mile 3, 168 avg spm, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  12:53, 106 bpm, 169 spm, 74 sl
2.  13:03, 158 bpm, 167 spm, 74 sl
3.  12:56, 165 bpm, 166 spm, 75 sl

Please note the heart's efficiency that occurred on today's miles 2 and 3 (mile 1 shouldn't be compared due to the HR strap not registering proper HR in the first half of the first mile) vs Wednesday.  A 1 day break helped, but while I was huffing more than Wednesday (resulting in a lower split), the heart didn't need to.  Even the max HR is 10 beats slower.

Another positive was that my cadence slowing started much later today than Wednesday.  I didn't really start to slow cadence until the last quarter mile, instead of the last half mile on Wednesday.  But I countered the slow down in cadence, since I was so close to the end.

I'm thinking the body was saying, "I guess he's serious, now.  Well, let's help the boy out.  Giddy up, y'all!"



Yesterday, I got about an inch of rain.  Oddly enough, the rain was on time, but more intense than forecasted.  It's getting to where a rainfall rate of an inch an hour is now just a sprinkle, to us.  The coastal counties got hammered.  We have 3 rain-free days now, as we inch closer to the summer temps.  Next week, it's lows of 71 and highs of 90.

Y'all have a nice weekend.

Back of the knee tightness and soreness can also be caused by that tight hamstring.  The hamstring muscles all meet in the back of the knee in the popilitus (sp?) - anyway, I get tightness there from time to time and have to stretch it out.  It also helps to do some calf stretches.

Interested in your take on Vespa.  My triathlete friend swears by it and used it at Boston last year (2015).

Yes, I'm absent, but I have an excuse in that my daughter graduated, we moved her home, we are now embarking on a trip to Alaska, and then moving her to Nashville.  All the while, I am trying to ride, swim, and run for my upcoming half IM in August.  Oh, and I bought a condo in Atlanta.

I saw the doppler radar for your area yesterday, so the whole inch-an-hour thing sounds about right. Sheesh.

It's nice when the body realizes you're serious and starts adapting, isn't it? Smart that you're taking a measured approach to getting going again. (I think Michele has a good point, and something definitely worth trying.)

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Back of the knee tightness and soreness can also be caused by that tight hamstring.  The hamstring muscles all meet in the back of the knee in the popilitus (sp?) - anyway, I get tightness there from time to time and have to stretch it out.  It also helps to do some calf stretches.

Interested in your take on Vespa.  My triathlete friend swears by it and used it at Boston last year (2015).

Yes, I'm absent, but I have an excuse in that my daughter graduated, we moved her home, we are now embarking on a trip to Alaska, and then moving her to Nashville.  All the while, I am trying to ride, swim, and run for my upcoming half IM in August.  Oh, and I bought a condo in Atlanta.

Well, howdy, Miche1e!!  Yeah, I figured with all the graduating stuff going on, that you'd be absent.  She'll have to learn a new language in Nashville, well maybe not with y'all having lived in Atlanta for a few years.  I was born in Chattanooga and have kin folk in the Nashville area, but I haven't been there in 10 years and they're slipping.

Yeah, I'll have to watch my hamstring.  I do enjoy the results of doing the 'wishbone' on my hamstring, especially with me (and not the PT) modulating the stretch.

It'll be a few months before I start consuming the Vespa, as I'm not running far enough to justify it.  After doing all the work on that website that I will do, I hope to not pay for Vespa anytime soon.  I'm getting some of it, next week.  I'll keep you apprised.

But YOU, young lady, didn't have a deep enough fat-adaption at Boston, if you're saying that you ran out of energy.  Triathlons and Ultras are natural events to be fat adapted, along with marathons.  You need to work at it and adjust what you eat, so you can have the wine.  You CAN do it.

Have fun in Alaska!  I'd love to go sometime.

Mark B wrote:I saw the doppler radar for your area yesterday, so the whole inch-an-hour thing sounds about right. Sheesh.

It's nice when the body realizes you're serious and starts adapting, isn't it? Smart that you're taking a measured approach to getting going again. (I think Michele has a good point, and something definitely worth trying.)

There was a point on doppler radar where there was a thin line of the most intense storms going east.  The edge of that line began to rotate counter-clockwise, which I'd never seen before.  This wasn't that radar that shows the opposing forces creating a hook echo, this was plain ol' doppler radar.  Five minutes later, a tornado warning was issued for a doppler identified tornado.  That was so cool.

Yeah, I love it when the body gets the word.  HR data like that is why I don't think I'm a good candidate for MAF and it would take me too long to get all those overdrive gears installed in my transmission to be faster at less effort.  I'd be old, by then.

ounce wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Back of the knee tightness and soreness can also be caused by that tight hamstring.  The hamstring muscles all meet in the back of the knee in the popilitus (sp?) - anyway, I get tightness there from time to time and have to stretch it out.  It also helps to do some calf stretches.

Interested in your take on Vespa.  My triathlete friend swears by it and used it at Boston last year (2015).

Yes, I'm absent, but I have an excuse in that my daughter graduated, we moved her home, we are now embarking on a trip to Alaska, and then moving her to Nashville.  All the while, I am trying to ride, swim, and run for my upcoming half IM in August.  Oh, and I bought a condo in Atlanta.

Well, howdy, Miche1e!!  Yeah, I figured with all the graduating stuff going on, that you'd be absent.  She'll have to learn a new language in Nashville, well maybe not with y'all having lived in Atlanta for a few years.  I was born in Chattanooga and have kin folk in the Nashville area, but I haven't been there in 10 years and they're slipping.

Yeah, I'll have to watch my hamstring.  I do enjoy the results of doing the 'wishbone' on my hamstring, especially with me (and not the PT) modulating the stretch.

It'll be a few months before I start consuming the Vespa, as I'm not running far enough to justify it.  After doing all the work on that website that I will do, I hope to not pay for Vespa anytime soon.  I'm getting some of it, next week.  I'll keep you apprised.

But YOU, young lady, didn't have a deep enough fat-adaption at Boston, if you're saying that you ran out of energy.  Triathlons and Ultras are natural events to be fat adapted, along with marathons.  You need to work at it and adjust what you eat, so you can have the wine.  You CAN do it.

Have fun in Alaska!  I'd love to go sometime.

Mark B wrote:I saw the doppler radar for your area yesterday, so the whole inch-an-hour thing sounds about right. Sheesh.

It's nice when the body realizes you're serious and starts adapting, isn't it? Smart that you're taking a measured approach to getting going again. (I think Michele has a good point, and something definitely worth trying.)

There was a point on doppler radar where there was a thin line of the most intense storms going east.  The edge of that line began to rotate counter-clockwise, which I'd never seen before.  This wasn't that radar that shows the opposing forces creating a hook echo, this was plain ol' doppler radar.  Five minutes later, a tornado warning was issued for a doppler identified tornado.  That was so cool.

Yeah, I love it when the body gets the word.  HR data like that is why I don't think I'm a good candidate for MAF and it would take me too long to get all those overdrive gears installed in my transmission to be faster at less effort.  I'd be old, by then.

Nice progress after just a few days back running. 
 
I think you'd be surprised at how your body would adapted to MAF.  After all look at the progress you've made with your cadence.  And look at what you can do with your ketone levels when you make it a priority.  I haven't been able to prioritize any of those efforts...

Oh, btw, we're already old!

ounce wrote:There was a point on doppler radar where there was a thin line of the most intense storms going east.  The edge of that line began to rotate counter-clockwise, which I'd never seen before.  This wasn't that radar that shows the opposing forces creating a hook echo, this was plain ol' doppler radar.  Five minutes later, a tornado warning was issued for a doppler identified tornado.  That was so cool.

Yeah, I love it when the body gets the word.  HR data like that is why I don't think I'm a good candidate for MAF and it would take me too long to get all those overdrive gears installed in my transmission to be faster at less effort.  I'd be old, by then.

Wow, crazy on the doppler-identified twister. Hope it didn't do much damage.

You'd be surprised about MAF and what it might do for you. It does take a LOT of patience, though, and a willingness to go slower than you ever thought possible.... and then slowing down even more to keep your heart rate from rising. However, it pairs PERFECTLY with a HF/LC diet, because the target HR is the level to where you are in a fat-metabolizing state.

Not that it's easy to do, mind you. But the challenge is mostly mental.

As for time to adapt, if you start doing it consistently, you will see some improvement in three weeks and significant improvement in six weeks. That's how long it takes for the genes to trigger the beneficial adaptation that first reduces the heart rate creep that forces a slowdown in later miles and second brings up the speed of the initial miles. And the cycle repeats every six weeks, and the cycles of improvement can continue for months, or even years, before some people hit a plateau -- especially if they haven't done that sort of training before. It really can work.

:descends from soap box:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:There was a point on doppler radar where there was a thin line of the most intense storms going east.  The edge of that line began to rotate counter-clockwise, which I'd never seen before.  This wasn't that radar that shows the opposing forces creating a hook echo, this was plain ol' doppler radar.  Five minutes later, a tornado warning was issued for a doppler identified tornado.  That was so cool.

Yeah, I love it when the body gets the word.  HR data like that is why I don't think I'm a good candidate for MAF and it would take me too long to get all those overdrive gears installed in my transmission to be faster at less effort.  I'd be old, by then.

Wow, crazy on the doppler-identified twister. Hope it didn't do much damage.

You'd be surprised about MAF and what it might do for you. It does take a LOT of patience, though, and a willingness to go slower than you ever thought possible.... and then slowing down even more to keep your heart rate from rising. However, it pairs PERFECTLY with a HF/LC diet, because the target HR is the level to where you are in a fat-metabolizing state.

Not that it's easy to do, mind you. But the challenge is mostly mental.

As for time to adapt, if you start doing it consistently, you will see some improvement in three weeks and significant improvement in six weeks. That's how long it takes for the genes to trigger the beneficial adaptation that first reduces the heart rate creep that forces a slowdown in later miles and second brings up the speed of the initial miles. And the cycle repeats every six weeks, and the cycles of improvement can continue for months, or even years, before some people hit a plateau -- especially if they haven't done that sort of training before. It really can work.

:descends from soap box:

Well, I tried it for a couple of years just before this website was created.  I still have the book.  While I was able to run the same pace at a lower HR, I didn't want the same pace.  However, it was as a result of MAF that I determined the heart was the quickest body part to adapt to new stimuli.  After all, the heart doesn't have to bear its own weight.  It's being held in place by the aorta and the various veins and arteries.  For me, it's not the bellweather for my running.

My working thought is to get to a pace my legs can sustain because it's my core and my legs that will be carrying the load.  The heart may be taxed a bit, but it'll get to its happy place the soonest.  In the sweat-dripping days of summer, the goal is trying to increase efficient function, without losing pace, because a Houston summer is, in effect, my MAF.

-30-

Saturday morning, my knee was a little stiff in bed.  That was surprising and a little concerning.  Did the 9 miles tax the knee too much?  I had not iced or TENS'd the knee Wednesday nor Friday.  Am I going to need to ice and TENS the knee after each run?  That possibility was telling me there was still healing to be done...or worse.  Dummmm-da-dum-dummmmmmm. 

So I got up and it quickly loosened up, just walking around in my apt.  There was no noticeable swelling.  I wasn't planning on running, over the weekend.  There was never any further problem after the initial 10 minutes.  This morning, there was no stiffness at all.  In fact, I can whip up my right leg to rest on my left thigh, now.  That move is one of the last free movements waiting to be accomplished.

This week, I'll probably increase the distance by 1 mile each run and run on MWF.  Oddly, I might even run some this weekend, which won't occur again until mid-September.

This morning, I ran 2 miles which is +1 over last Monday's re-start of running.  It was 71 degrees with the same dewpoint, so 100% humidity.  I saw where for this time of year, seasonal is 69 degrees for a low.  Hurricane season starts on June 1, so I've been collecting various food stuffs, in case a tropical storm or a hurricane comes our way and people crush the grocery stores.  With the El Nino transitioning to a La Nina, it's not 'expected' to be much of a season until September. 

Meanwhile, back to the run, I woke up with no issues and ran with only the legs asking why we're doing this.  The legs weren't tired, but they just were not in sync.  That showed in the first mile's time and the overall cadence.

2 miles, 25:58, 12:58 pace, 128 avg bpm (ha!), 152 max bpm during mile 2, 167 avg spm, 0.74 m avg stride length.
1.  13:08, 111 bpm, 168 spm, 73 sl
2.  12:49, 145 bpm, 166 spm, 76 sl

Last Tuesday was the 2 mile run and here are the figures:
2 miles, 24:47, 12:23 pace, avg HR 142 bpm, 171 bpm max HR during mile 2, 168 avg cadence, 0.77 m avg stride length.
1.  12:31, 122 bpm (haha), 168 spm, 76 sl
2.  12:14, 163 bpm, 168 spm, 78 sl

If I would get rattled at comparisons, then this would be concerning.  But one comparison does not make a trend.  Years ago, Mondays were my worst runs because it was the first run of the week.  It'll all shake out.  I'm not concerned because the legs did not hurt.

Around noon, I went and donated some platelets and plasma. I sat in the lounge chair for my 65 minute donation.  When I moved my right leg, it was stiff from being in the same position.  After bending it 3 times, it settled down and I had no issues.  Standing or moving is best to keep the settling from occurring.  It'll be interesting how it is in the morning.  Tomorrow is weights.  Thanks for stopping by.