Building A Better Bumblebee

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:I am curious which choice they'll make, though. The devil they know, or the one they don't?

The one the insurance company will pay.  You should KNOW which method makes you whole. If one method doesn't fully indemnify y'all and the house, it's not the method you want.

Sounds like someone is familiar with the vocabulary of the insurance industry...

I don't actually know which technique would make us whole in this case, but I know that both the insurance adjustor and contractor are working some calculus balancing the labor cost of obliterating everything down to the subfloor and prepping for new  flooring vs the additional materials cost of hacking out the *whole* floor and starting fresh.

It seems, based on a conversation I had this afternoon, that the answer will be a bit of both. Scrape, pry and prep  where they can, but if it gets too ridiculous, break out the saws, cut it out to the floor joists and replace the OSB. (I'd bet money the saws come out pretty quickly.)

We actually have work set to start next week. We'll have an electrician out (we have many lights were not allowed to use yet, and some GFI outlets need to be replaced) and the restoration of wall insulation and the beginnings of drywall restoration. Woot! About dang time.

Also had a bit of a disagreement over how much insurance was crediting us for our old dining area chandelier, but they were fine with upgrading it to something that ought to make it easier. Just goes to show that you can't stop being an advocate for yourself. It is our responsibility to protect our investment.

Just years of reading contracts and understanding insurance certificates.  And like dealing with doctors on care and treatment, you ABSOLUTELY MUST be an advocate for yourself and your loved ones when dealing with insurance companies.  Document.  Document.  Document.  Because if you ever get into a mediation battle with the insurance company, the mediator will love documentation as it pretty much eliminates the 'he said, she said' part of the issue or at least counters some of the insurance company's documentation.

Find someone that can be your advocate that knows something about what the rebuild is trying to accomplish.  Somebody that can talk and understand the lingo and make sure you're getting a fair shake.  Of course, that cost is out of your pocket unless you can find it in the policy that you can get reimbursed.

One last thing, WRITE to the insurance adjustor and ask him if any of the trades involved in the renovation are required to submit to the insurance company Certificates of Insurance for Workers Compensation and General Liability while on your property and does that Certificate extend its coverage to y'all, the homeowner.  The Certificate comes from the contractor's insurance company, not yours, unless they just happen to be it.Then ask for a copy of the Certificate.  If he can't easily produce the Certificate, then ask him to reply to your email in writing saying that y'all are covered.  Insurance companies hate writing stuff that might extend the coverage of a policy.

Oh, yes. Documentation. Very important. It helped us out yesterday when there was a disagreement about a light fixture, and how they were valuing it. I pulled up an email (so glad people communicate via email today rather than just talking) that showed the differences and shared it, and the problem was quickly resolved.

The insurance certificate thing isn't entirely clear. I get that they need to have their own liability insurance and worker's comp coverage, but are you saying that liability coverage needs to also apply to the clients on their job site, in the event they drop a saw on my foot or something?

As far as third party advocates go, it just so happens that our next door neighbor is a county building inspector and former contractor who has done restoration work. He's wants to show up and pay a visit when they start work. Building permits aren't required for the type of work we're having done, but he wants to make sure they know they're being watched.  

The insurance certificate is to needs to protect all parties involved.  So, the persons on the mortgage (presumably you and Alita) need to be added to the certificate, so if 'somebody' gets hurt or 'somebody's' property gets damaged as a result of one of the contractor's employee/agent, that contractor's insurance comes to the rescue to make 'somebody' whole.

And GREAT on the neighbor.  That's really nifty.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:I am curious which choice they'll make, though. The devil they know, or the one they don't?

The one the insurance company will pay.  You should KNOW which method makes you whole. If one method doesn't fully indemnify y'all and the house, it's not the method you want.

Sounds like someone is familiar with the vocabulary of the insurance industry...

I don't actually know which technique would make us whole in this case, but I know that both the insurance adjustor and contractor are working some calculus balancing the labor cost of obliterating everything down to the subfloor and prepping for new  flooring vs the additional materials cost of hacking out the *whole* floor and starting fresh.

It seems, based on a conversation I had this afternoon, that the answer will be a bit of both. Scrape, pry and prep  where they can, but if it gets too ridiculous, break out the saws, cut it out to the floor joists and replace the OSB. (I'd bet money the saws come out pretty quickly.)

We actually have work set to start next week. We'll have an electrician out (we have many lights were not allowed to use yet, and some GFI outlets need to be replaced) and the restoration of wall insulation and the beginnings of drywall restoration. Woot! About dang time.

Also had a bit of a disagreement over how much insurance was crediting us for our old dining area chandelier, but they were fine with upgrading it to something that ought to make it easier. Just goes to show that you can't stop being an advocate for yourself. It is our responsibility to protect our investment.

Just years of reading contracts and understanding insurance certificates.  And like dealing with doctors on care and treatment, you ABSOLUTELY MUST be an advocate for yourself and your loved ones when dealing with insurance companies.  Document.  Document.  Document.  Because if you ever get into a mediation battle with the insurance company, the mediator will love documentation as it pretty much eliminates the 'he said, she said' part of the issue or at least counters some of the insurance company's documentation.

Find someone that can be your advocate that knows something about what the rebuild is trying to accomplish.  Somebody that can talk and understand the lingo and make sure you're getting a fair shake.  Of course, that cost is out of your pocket unless you can find it in the policy that you can get reimbursed.

One last thing, WRITE to the insurance adjustor and ask him if any of the trades involved in the renovation are required to submit to the insurance company Certificates of Insurance for Workers Compensation and General Liability while on your property and does that Certificate extend its coverage to y'all, the homeowner.  The Certificate comes from the contractor's insurance company, not yours, unless they just happen to be it.Then ask for a copy of the Certificate.  If he can't easily produce the Certificate, then ask him to reply to your email in writing saying that y'all are covered.  Insurance companies hate writing stuff that might extend the coverage of a policy.

Oh, yes. Documentation. Very important. It helped us out yesterday when there was a disagreement about a light fixture, and how they were valuing it. I pulled up an email (so glad people communicate via email today rather than just talking) that showed the differences and shared it, and the problem was quickly resolved.

The insurance certificate thing isn't entirely clear. I get that they need to have their own liability insurance and worker's comp coverage, but are you saying that liability coverage needs to also apply to the clients on their job site, in the event they drop a saw on my foot or something?

As far as third party advocates go, it just so happens that our next door neighbor is a county building inspector and former contractor who has done restoration work. He's wants to show up and pay a visit when they start work. Building permits aren't required for the type of work we're having done, but he wants to make sure they know they're being watched.  

The insurance certificate is to needs to protect all parties involved.  So, the persons on the mortgage (presumably you and Alita) need to be added to the certificate, so if 'somebody' gets hurt or 'somebody's' property gets damaged as a result of one of the contractor's employee/agent, that contractor's insurance comes to the rescue to make 'somebody' whole.

And GREAT on the neighbor.  That's really nifty.

Gotcha. I'll have to figure out an artistic way to phrase it and send a note to the main contractor and the adjustor.

And yeah. Nifty.

Artfully worded email sent. Adjustor immediately deferred to the primary contractor. No big surprise there...

---

And since this is supposed to be a running/activity blog, a quick toe update.

Still no confirmation from a radiologist, but there's now way this baby toe isn't broken. Every time I do anything that puts downward pressure on the tip of the toe, I get a painful little reminder to lay off. It aches every once in a while, but not too much. Walking any more than 50 yards or so gets uncomfortable.

After seeing what happened to Paul George yesterday (shudder), I feel unqualified to complain about such a minor fracture, but I would very much wish to be able to do something physical. Combine inactivity with a huge influx in restaurant meals, and I can feel my clothes getting tighter.  

Had to look up who Paul George is.  I might be into sports, but the one that I am least interested in is professional basketball.  The name rang a bell, but I couldn't place it.  Looks awful.  You know there isn't much they can do for a broken toe, and a sprain is far worse than a break.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Had to look up who Paul George is.  I might be into sports, but the one that I am least interested in is professional basketball.  The name rang a bell, but I couldn't place it.  Looks awful.  You know there isn't much they can do for a broken toe, and a sprain is far worse than a break.

You're not alone on not knowing Paul George. I'd never heard of him (I don't follow the NBA very closely) until last night at work when I heard our basketball writer cry out in horror when it happened. It reminded me of Joe Theisman's injury many years ago, in that same stomach-curdling way, and I hope this young man can heal up enough to return to the game.

As for my toe, you're right - the only thing I can do is wait it out and let it heal. But the beauty of a fracture is that once it's healed, it's healed. Sprains linger.

Mark B wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Had to look up who Paul George is.  I might be into sports, but the one that I am least interested in is professional basketball.  The name rang a bell, but I couldn't place it.  Looks awful.  You know there isn't much they can do for a broken toe, and a sprain is far worse than a break.

You're not alone on not knowing Paul George. I'd never heard of him (I don't follow the NBA very closely) until last night at work when I heard our basketball writer cry out in horror when it happened. It reminded me of Joe Theisman's injury many years ago, in that same stomach-curdling way, and I hope this young man can heal up enough to return to the game.

As for my toe, you're right - the only thing I can do is wait it out and let it heal. But the beauty of a fracture is that once it's healed, it's healed. Sprains linger.

That injury wasn't that bad. Kevin Ware's was much worse. I even think that Marcus Lattimore's injury was worse...Look them up, if you are daring enough...

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Had to look up who Paul George is.  I might be into sports, but the one that I am least interested in is professional basketball.  The name rang a bell, but I couldn't place it.  Looks awful.  You know there isn't much they can do for a broken toe, and a sprain is far worse than a break.

You're not alone on not knowing Paul George. I'd never heard of him (I don't follow the NBA very closely) until last night at work when I heard our basketball writer cry out in horror when it happened. It reminded me of Joe Theisman's injury many years ago, in that same stomach-curdling way, and I hope this young man can heal up enough to return to the game.

As for my toe, you're right - the only thing I can do is wait it out and let it heal. But the beauty of a fracture is that once it's healed, it's healed. Sprains linger.

That injury wasn't that bad.  Kevin Ware's was much worse.  I even think that Marcus Lattimore's injury was worse...Look them up, if you are daring enough...

Lattimore's injury was pretty eye-catching, but Ware's? Yii. Protruding bone.  

Mark B wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Had to look up who Paul George is.  I might be into sports, but the one that I am least interested in is professional basketball.  The name rang a bell, but I couldn't place it.  Looks awful.  You know there isn't much they can do for a broken toe, and a sprain is far worse than a break.

You're not alone on not knowing Paul George. I'd never heard of him (I don't follow the NBA very closely) until last night at work when I heard our basketball writer cry out in horror when it happened. It reminded me of Joe Theisman's injury many years ago, in that same stomach-curdling way, and I hope this young man can heal up enough to return to the game.

As for my toe, you're right - the only thing I can do is wait it out and let it heal. But the beauty of a fracture is that once it's healed, it's healed. Sprains linger.

You have the misfortune of having an injury that gets little blood flow to assist getting the swelling out.  There could be more swelling than fracture and a bone bruise.

Good luck on that and the contractor.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Had to look up who Paul George is.  I might be into sports, but the one that I am least interested in is professional basketball.  The name rang a bell, but I couldn't place it.  Looks awful.  You know there isn't much they can do for a broken toe, and a sprain is far worse than a break.

You're not alone on not knowing Paul George. I'd never heard of him (I don't follow the NBA very closely) until last night at work when I heard our basketball writer cry out in horror when it happened. It reminded me of Joe Theisman's injury many years ago, in that same stomach-curdling way, and I hope this young man can heal up enough to return to the game.

As for my toe, you're right - the only thing I can do is wait it out and let it heal. But the beauty of a fracture is that once it's healed, it's healed. Sprains linger.

You have the misfortune of having an injury that gets little blood flow to assist getting the swelling out.  There could be more swelling than fracture and a bone bruise.

Good luck on that and the contractor.

Well, maybe if I hold my breath and bear down hard, I can push more blood to the tip of my little toe?

That's MY Paul George.....got rid of Lance Stephenson because of Paul George and now look where we are.  Oh, well.  Nasty video, watched it once and I still have nightmares.

dot520 wrote:That's MY Paul George.....got rid of Lance Stephenson because of Paul George and now look where we are.  Oh, well.  Nasty video, watched it once and I still have nightmares.

Ooo. Sorry about that. Usually, that's what happens when the Portland Trail Blazers sign on some up-and-coming superstar...

And, it's official...

"On the prior examination, there appeared to be congenital fusion of the DIP joint of the 5th toe. However, on the current examination, there appears to be a lucency traversing the DIP joint region suggesting a nondisplaced fracture in this region."

Broken. No surprise. Though I didn't know I had a fused joint in my little toe. (Not all that uncommon, apparently.)

Mark B wrote:And, it's official...

"On the prior examination, there appeared to be congenital fusion of the DIP joint of the 5th toe. However, on the current examination, there appears to be a lucency traversing the DIP joint region suggesting a nondisplaced fracture in this region."

Broken. No surprise. Though I didn't know I had a fused joint in my little toe. (Not all that uncommon, apparently.)

Some real sharp pruning shears will fix you right up.  

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:And, it's official...

"On the prior examination, there appeared to be congenital fusion of the DIP joint of the 5th toe. However, on the current examination, there appears to be a lucency traversing the DIP joint region suggesting a nondisplaced fracture in this region."

Broken. No surprise. Though I didn't know I had a fused joint in my little toe. (Not all that uncommon, apparently.)

Some real sharp pruning shears will fix you right up.  

Well, based on the description in the report, I kind of tried to do that myself already...   

I wonder if I actually had a DIP joint, I might have avoided a fracture? Hm. Of course, after this, I may have a new one.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:And, it's official...

"On the prior examination, there appeared to be congenital fusion of the DIP joint of the 5th toe. However, on the current examination, there appears to be a lucency traversing the DIP joint region suggesting a nondisplaced fracture in this region."

Broken. No surprise. Though I didn't know I had a fused joint in my little toe. (Not all that uncommon, apparently.)

Some real sharp pruning shears will fix you right up.  

Well, based on the description in the report, I kind of tried to do that myself already...   

I wonder if I actually had a DIP joint, I might have avoided a fracture? Hm. Of course, after this, I may have a new one.

Amateurs.  Tisk, tisk.  So does this mean we can call you a 'dip' or 'dipless'?

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:And, it's official...

"On the prior examination, there appeared to be congenital fusion of the DIP joint of the 5th toe. However, on the current examination, there appears to be a lucency traversing the DIP joint region suggesting a nondisplaced fracture in this region."

Broken. No surprise. Though I didn't know I had a fused joint in my little toe. (Not all that uncommon, apparently.)

Some real sharp pruning shears will fix you right up.  

Well, based on the description in the report, I kind of tried to do that myself already...   

I wonder if I actually had a DIP joint, I might have avoided a fracture? Hm. Of course, after this, I may have a new one.

Amateurs.  Tisk, tisk.  So does this mean we can call you a 'dip' or 'dipless'?

Wouldn't be the first time...

Time for a quick update: Reconstruction started today!

We had not one, not two, but three trades people in our house today (electrical, plumbing, drywall) -- and the project superintendent! Woot!

The very first bit of work?



Yup. An overflow drain for the master bathroom tub.

Turns out, the tub was designed to be able to take one, and the trap was quite adequate to handle it. The plumber was mystified why there wasn't one there in the first place -- they're required by code across the state line in Oregon, he said. But apparently, not here in Washington. Why, I have no idea.

Anyway, there was no way we were going to pass up the chance to get one put in, if we could manage it. He got it done before any drywall work began, so we're good.

This was on our dime -- insurance wouldn't pay for something that wasn't damaged, even if it might prevent further damage -- but we were okay with that. Well worth it, even if only for peace of mind.

Tomorrow should be busy, with insulation going in and drywall going up. Well, hopefully. We also had a visit by a building inspector (not our neighbor) late this afternoon after the contractors had left, and he sternly asked Alita for the building permits he said needed to be pulled for the work we're having done in our house. Uh. Really?

Alita passed on our contractor's number, so hopefully they got it taken care of.

Also tomorrow, we get to find out just how much of a floor upgrade we're going to get. It'll deepened on how much insurance is paying, and what any upgrades would cost us out of pocket. We're prepared for some extra costs (since its our best chance to do anything like this), within reason. We'll see what we can get and remain reasonable.

That was a worthwhile upgrade to pay for. What are you doing up at 1:33 AM?

Jim Lentz wrote:That was a worthwhile upgrade to pay for. What are you doing up at 1:33 AM?

Election night at work -- though it was only 11:33 Pacific time. Still made getting up early for the contractors a little rough. Coffee!

Some frustration in the flooring area today (the flooring guy hadn't yet got the numbers we needed to make an educated  choice, leaving us frustrated and no further along than we were a month ago), but at least the drywall guys came and started their work in earnest today.



Look! No more exposed joists, wires and whatnot! Fluff doesn't seem to know what to make of it.

We got insulation again, too, which is kind of nice. We lost most of our downstairs eating space, which is a bit of a hassle for the time being, but it's not forever and it's totally worth it.

There's a lot of work to go, but it's a good start.

One sort of funny thing. The county building department seems to have taken an interest in our project, and told the contractor he had to pull a permit and submit to regular inspections at specific points along the way. Whether it was because of our neighbor the building inspector, or the fact that an electrician pulled a permit for electric work yesterday that ended up not being needed... well, who knows? At any rate, I guess it's good that somebody's checking on their work.

Might as well ask: We're wanting to get rid of the carpet we had before, knowing it'll cost us a bit. But we're debating between 3/4'' solid planks, 3/8'' to 1/2'' engineered or maybe even laminate for areas outside of bathrooms and the laundry room. Anybody done a flooring change recently with an experience with any of these to share?

We have bamboo in our house here in NY that I like since it is sustainable wood as is cork which might be cool for the kitchen.  As for the rest, I have had both laminate (the kind you can sand down and re-finish) and solid oak in the past.  I like the laminate type product we have now as we can sand it and re-finish if need be.  I think it is 3/8", but I could be wrong on that.  It is easier to take care of than the solid oak (the house was built in the 60s and that is what was used back then).  I prefer any over carpet especially with pets and kids (no matter their age).  

I would think carefully about a solid surface vs. laminate for counter tops.  There are so many now and they are not that much more than the laminates.  They wear better and yes, someday, you might have to sell and move and they always have better resale value.  Having moved numerous times even since I've known you, I would let you know it is a big selling feature.

Alright, progress!!

I went with laminate for my place a few years ago. Like Michele, I think I went with 3/8"...but I would have to double check that.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:We have bamboo in our house here in NY that I like since it is sustainable wood as is cork which might be cool for the kitchen.  As for the rest, I have had both laminate (the kind you can sand down and re-finish) and solid oak in the past.  I like the laminate type product we have now as we can sand it and re-finish if need be.  I think it is 3/8", but I could be wrong on that.  It is easier to take care of than the solid oak (the house was built in the 60s and that is what was used back then).  I prefer any over carpet especially with pets and kids (no matter their age).  

I would think carefully about a solid surface vs. laminate for counter tops.  There are so many now and they are not that much more than the laminates.  They wear better and yes, someday, you might have to sell and move and they always have better resale value.  Having moved numerous times even since I've known you, I would let you know it is a big selling feature.

Thanks for the information, Michele! We've actually been attracted to bamboo flooring, through probably an engineered version rather than than planks. We're looking at a traditional 3/4'' plank option, as well. We'll see how ti looks and what it costs.

Interesting point on the countertops. We toyed with the idea of a solid surface, but we decided to put whatever extra money we might have into the floors. We can always upgrade the countertops later - it's a lot tougher to redo a bunch of floors. And we think the laminate we're getting is going to look pretty good.

Nick Morris wrote:Alright, progress!!

I went with laminate for my place a few years ago.  Like Michele, I think I went with 3/8"...but I would have to double check that.

Most laminates are 3/8'' or 1/2'' or so. The flooring guy is concerned that we'd have gaps at the bottom of our door frames if we went from a 3/4'' floor down to 1/2'' -- so he's pressing on the thicker wood. Not sure how big a deal that is, really, but I guess it's something to consider. We'd have to pay to fix the gap out of pocket.

---

House update:



The first layer of putty/mud is up, and we passed our latest building inspection. It's starting to look like the interior of a house again.

And good news!



One of the guys turned to the underlayment from hell today, and he seems to have the situation totally in hand.



He used a tool to pull the flooring staples first, which made it significantly easier to scrape and pry the particleboard off the subfloor. He also had the proper tools for scraping, and that helped a lot. He clearly knows what he's doing.



We actually have a debris-free path to the back door now! I'm now confident they won't have to saw out any subfloor to get the floor ready. That's going to save a lot of hassle, and some expense, as well.

Besides, it's nice to see something be easier than expected.

That's excellent news!! It will be much less of a hassle now.

p.s. How's the little piggy?

I seriously thought about creating a FB page called "FluffWasFramed!"  Steal some photos, but decided against it.

Give Alec a pencil and get him to draw stuff on the sheetrock, before it's painted.

Continued good luck and no surprises...mostly no surprises.