Re: Survival of the fittest

Mark B Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:45 am

I'd second what Nick says but add that I've seen recommendations (at least at first) to run the uphill hard, then ease back down for recovery. After you've done it a few times, start running one or two of the downhills fast. I think that's a Hal suggestion.

I've also found a benefit in finding a moderate hill that's a bit longer and let your legs go. It'll be a lot of fun, provided the hills not so steep you're at risk of going out of control, and give your legs some practice with a faster turnover and a higher speed with less stress on the system. Good for concentration, too, as you keep balanced.

mountandog Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:11 pm

so general rule of thumb: find a hill in the 5-8% grade range. Do uphills in the 10-15 second range and do the downhills in the 20-30 second range. I would do a 50/50 split and make sure you have enough recovery between each one. 60-120 seconds should do it. For Boston, I would increase the % to more downhills as you get more comfortable. But you need to be all done with them 3 weeks out. So you only have a few weeks to get 'em in. DO THEM. You will thank me on the relevant Monday afternoon!!! Very Happy

nkrichards Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:53 pm

Thanks for all the great advice. I have my first hill workout scheduled for tomorrow. Maura had planned on doing some hill work at Smith Rock SP and invited me to join her. She's training for an ultra and has a tough workout planned but agreed to scale back and/or allow me to back off a bit if it gets to tough. Should be a fun challenge with some awesome views thrown in. Very Happy

Core work on Friday and then I snuck in an easy 3 miles to work out the kinks after pruning trees all day.

Saturday's 20 was a tough one. 10:49 pace. My splits were much more even but I never did settle in and feel good. I didn't fade more than a couple seconds in the last few miles but speeding up was definitely not in the cards. It's in the bag so that's what counts.

Ended up driving over to Portland for our granddaughters gymnastics meet right after my run. Between the driving and the hours on the bleachers my legs weren't happy at all. We didn't get back till late Sunday afternoon...I headed out for an easy 3 and did feel better afterwards.

Swimming this morning. 1225 yds with 10 x 50 very nicely paced if I do say so myself. Very Happy

Hills tomorrow...

nkrichards Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:22 pm

Well that was interesting! You guys that run ultras are absolutely nuts!!!

Maura is training for a couple ultras this spring so our hills were on trails and a BLM road in Smith Rock SP. Views were awesome and the weather was perfect. It wasn't the type of hill repeats that were discussed earlier but I do think it was a very beneficial run. We essentially ran a bit more than a mile to warm up and then headed up...and up...and up. We walked when necessary and ran as much as possible. Then we went down...and down...and down...running the entire way. Then we had to turn around and go back the way we came. Ended up with 6.3 miles and 2167' elevation gain. I wasn't able to run fast due to the loose rocks and the steep grade but I do think I got some good out of the run. Legs are tired with maybe just a twinge of soreness this morning. Nothing that won't work itself out in the pool today. I think I'll look for a hill on the road for my next hill workout. Those rocks this close to Boston made me nervous.

Mark B Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:59 pm

nkrichards wrote:Well that was interesting! You guys that run ultras are absolutely nuts!!!

Maura is training for a couple ultras this spring so our hills were on trails and a BLM road in Smith Rock SP. Views were awesome and the weather was perfect. It wasn't the type of hill repeats that were discussed earlier but I do think it was a very beneficial run. We essentially ran a bit more than a mile to warm up and then headed up...and up...and up. We walked when necessary and ran as much as possible. Then we went down...and down...and down...running the entire way. Then we had to turn around and go back the way we came. Ended up with 6.3 miles and 2167' elevation gain. I wasn't able to run fast due to the loose rocks and the steep grade but I do think I got some good out of the run. Legs are tired with maybe just a twinge of soreness this morning. Nothing that won't work itself out in the pool today. I think I'll look for a hill on the road for my next hill workout. Those rocks this close to Boston made me nervous.

That sounds AWESOME!! What fun!

Yes, ultra-style running is different. Walking is critically important on steep uphills -- and sometimes even on the downhills. The whole notion of "pace" that's so important on the roads pretty much goes out the window. It's kind of liberating.

Still, in your case, I can see why you'd be a bit nervous about rocks in your last months before Boston. But given the weather there, you may be running up snowbanks at this rate. Or a glacier.

nkrichards Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:00 pm

Well crap! Just when I thought I was making some progress hamstring pain forced me to cut my run short and it's still not right. Arrrgh.

I got in a nice 10 mi w/8 @ MP then a 15 last week to finish off a very nice step back week. The runs felt good!

Then on Tuesday I headed out for 12 w/10 @ MP. It was going well until the 8th mile at MP. My left hamstring started hurting and nothing I did would help. It kept getting worse so I finally bunched it and walked/jogged/limped 2 miles home. It settled down a bit with some RICE but still wasn't right so I headed to the PT yesterday. He confirmed my suspicion that it is just a muscle strain...nothing to serious in his opinion. He's a runner so we talked a lot about my training between now and Boston. He/we are hoping that if I really take it easy this week I can step right back into my training schedule next week. This would mean I would skip the hard week completely and do another step back week. I would still have time for 2 more 20 milers before Boston.

If it does heal as we hope I think I'll be fine. His instruction is to run at a speed/distance that's comfortable. He indicated that a little discomfort was OK but not to push to hard. This is going to be hard!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not good at this. I like schedules.

Was it the hills last week? I don't know...the rest of the week I felt fine.

Interesting aside. He commented that my left leg was noticeably smaller than my right. Then added that my left arm was also smaller. He even had his partner come take a look. He didn't indicate that this had anything to do with my current injury but thought it was interesting. I was having my stride analyzed a few years ago and was asked if I'd had an injury to my left side. And the swim coach also commented that my left side is noticeably weaker/less coordinated. Not sure what this information means but it is interesting.

OK...I'm going back into the office to prepare our income tax return and mope a bit more...

Tom H Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:27 pm

Nancy, if it provides any comfort, I had a hamstring strain 4 weeks before CIM in December and was able to make it to the race and run it hard. I know it'll feel like you are losing ground when you take the time to recover, but it is taking that time to recover that will allow you to get to the starting line.

Mark B Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:03 am

Nothing like a curious PT to get you questioning whether you should even be capable of running without various body parts falling off. Boy, does what they told you sound familiar.

Aside from the hills, did you change anything in the past couple of weeks -- shoes, other exercises, pulling weeds, etc.? If it is something like that, you can make adjustments and help it get better.

Either way, taking it easier at this point might make you a little crazy, but it'll get you to the start line in Hopkinton.

nkrichards Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:12 pm

Tom...I remember that you had some issues after your half in preparation for CIM. I'll try and read back through your blog. Thanks for the encouragement.

Mark...the only other thing that I've changed at all is increasing my cadence but only very slightly. Maura has been encouraging me to really increase it but I've stubbornly stuck to maybe just a tad faster and no more. If it's not the hills I would imagine that due to the holidays, weather earlier this year etc I started training with a bit less of a base to build off of. Maybe just pushed a bit to hard to quickly. Other than that things look just like past training cycles. Same shoes. Same core/strength. Same pool workouts. Less biking.

I'm still feeling some discomfort on occasion but it's pretty minimal. Even though I have the OK to test it I think I'm going to rest it for another day. It's odd that it hurts just before my foot touches down...not when I'm actively pushing off. The PT explained that is when the muscle elongates.

If necessary I'll just use this...and the fact that my body is just not constructed properly...as an excuse come race day. Wink

In all seriousness...yes I'm concerned and yes I'm frustrated but it's better now than when I was trying to BQ. My goal all along as been to be prepared to enjoy Boston not race it. It's all about setting appropriate goals...and then remembering what they are when I pin on that race number.

nkrichards Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:57 pm

Held off running till Saturday morning. Kept the pace easy (11:15) and the run short (3 miles). Not really any pain but was slightly more uncomfortable the last mile. It also seemed to tighten up over night.

Sunday- Decided that another run was pushing my luck so opted for a brisk 2 mile walk. It was pretty tight at the start but loosened up nicely and felt pretty good the second half of the walk. Started to tighten up once I got back home but I was able to move around a bit and so far it seems OK. We'll see how it feels tomorrow. I'm hoping to keep the pace very easy but go a bit longer...cautiously.

Pleasant distraction. The grandsons spent the night last night. They are here often but don't usually stay all night. Royce (9 months) slept like a baby should. Smile

Owen (2 1/2) was a different story. He woke up scared...4 times. The third time as I laid down with him for a couple minutes he turned to me and whispered "I love you Nanie".

Life is good!

nkrichards Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:47 pm

Hammie felt good yesterday so I headed out for a run. Took the first mile pretty easy and then speed up slightly. Just getting down to a 10 minute pace seemed hard for some reason. I got in about 3.5 miles at just under a 10 minute pace and then backed off to cool down. It felt pretty good the entire time. I felt a bit of a twinge at the start of a hill which reminded me that I needed to take it easy and make sure I cooled down well. I walked the hill and then slowly jogged home. 5 miles total.

The good news is that it felt good afterwards and still felt good this morning. I cautiously added back some of the leg work when I did my core/strength workout this morning. It felt surprisingly good!

I'm going to try another short, easy run this afternoon. I'm not game to run to long or to hard on it yet. I'm hoping that I can cautiously add distance and intensity this week and be back on track...or close to it by next week.

I still don't feel like it's 100% healed but I'm being a bit more conservative...maybe paranoid is the word...than the PT suggested. I'd rather miss a couple more days now than reinjure it and start all over again!

Nick Morris Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:28 pm

Way to be smart with your hammy. I am glad that it seems to be healing well and that you are able to get some work in. Continue to take it eases and ease back into more mileage and pace. I am sure that you will be back to full strength in no time.

Mark B Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:31 am

Easy does it, Nancy! Though it'd be awfully tempting to head out, given the weather we're having lately.

nkrichards Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:45 pm

Whoa things got busy on the farm this week!

Thanks for stopping by Nick and Mark. I held back a bit longer than the PT recommended but yes this weather is/was tempting.

So far so good!

Tues. Wanted to try a bit of speed...only a mile...I was careful. 3 miles total. Felt good.

Wed. 2100 yds in the pool

Thurs. PT wanted me to give it a good test. 10 miles with 8@ MP (9:27) Felt good

Fri. 1325 yds in the pool

Sat. 5K with two of my granddaughters. Abby (age 7) and I ran together and finished 1n 35:01. Emma (age 10) was right with us for the first half but got discouraged when her little sister took off. 45:00 She said she hurt her ankle but I think she gave up. It's a very fun event for kids. Oddly enough on the drive home Emma was all excited about doing it next year and Abby said she only liked the candy they gave away. It was a fun day!

Sun. 15 mi @ 10:29. I was overdressed but the run went well. I started pretty conservative and ended up running each 1/3 slightly faster than the previous. Legs were tired and I was a bit sunburnt but no hammie discomfort at all. Very Happy

Off to get a few more farm jobs done...I'll check back when I have more time.

nkrichards Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:52 pm

The day started with bills to pay and then two bus loads of 8th grade students arrived at the farm. Our son Kevin agreed to participate in Adopt a Farmer and this was field trip day. Farmer Kevin as he was called had organized community members to speak to the kids in the morning. My session was scheduled for after lunch and I was assigned the task of explaining our irrigation system. It went well. We have another group scheduled for tomorrow and then we can go back to work.

Finished the day with a nice run. 9.25 mi with 6x1 mi repeats. I was a bit nervous about how they would go. They went fine....maybe a bit to fine. Averaged 9:06 and the last two were the fastest. I do them on the road with some modest hills so I'm pretty happy with those times.

My hammy was fine during the run but I felt a couple very slight twinges after I stopped. Tomorrow is a swim day. I'll cut back the distance and intensity of my Thursday run if it bothers me at all. I have a really fun group run scheduled for Saturday and I want to be able to enjoy that.

We're planting wheat...is it spring time already!!

Mark B Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:23 pm

Looking good, Nancy! It seems like you're right where you should be in getting ready for Boston. Just keep at it!

Were those kids from Central Oregon schools? I'd be nice to get some city kids, who might have less exposure to farm life. I would have liked to have seen the presentations myself. Bet it was interesting.

nkrichards Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:28 pm

Mark B wrote:Looking good, Nancy! It seems like you're right where you should be in getting ready for Boston. Just keep at it!

Were those kids from Central Oregon schools? I'd be nice to get some city kids, who might have less exposure to farm life. I would have liked to have seen the presentations myself. Bet it was interesting.

We were supposed to work with one of the Bend schools which is pretty urban but they backed out and so they paired us with Prineville. There were some kids with farm experience but many without.

Our son, Kevin, was the lead person on this. He was an Oregon state FFA officer for a year between high school and college. He put himself through school working as a presenter. He's really good at it. My part was pretty small which was perfectly fine with me.

nkrichards Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:52 pm

I have some catching up to do!

In addition to preparing for Boston we're planting peppermint, preparing ground for carrot planting, and Auntie Pat passed away on Friday and I'm her trustee/personal representative. I did not need more on my plate right now!

But...I'm getting the miles in and the hammie is holding up well.

Wednesday - Nice hard swim. 2750 yds with some nice 100yd intervals. Fun!

Thursday - I did the full 12 w/10 @ MP but I intentionally ran the MP portion a bit slower (@ 9:44). Still within my goal of a 4:15 finish but a bit slower than the 9:30 I've been trying for to be nice to the hammie. It was warm and the run was tough but I got it done and finished strong. Also got my core/strength work done.

Friday - Swim day 1325 yds Mostly easy with a few 50 yd sprints thrown in there.

Saturday - Group run/walk. This was a community event. We signed up to run/walk 7 miles down the Willow Creek Trail to Lake Simtustus where lunch and a bus ride home would be waiting for us. I needed to get a longer run in so I parked at the designated area armed with my new Nathan race vest filled with water and energy and headed the other direction on the trail. Ran 7 miles...this had more elevation gain than I remembered. Turned around and ran back and then started the 7 mile community group event. I was late getting back to the designated parking area to head down to the lake but passed the walkers so arrived in the middle of the pack. Finished with 21 mi @ 10:59...a bit slower than my long runs have been but considering it was on the trail I was OK with that. It was a really fun day/event! Good news is I got in some nice down hill running and the legs held up well.

Sunday - Rest day & family stuff in Vancouver

Monday- 1775 yds at the pool...it's encouraging to see my times improve.

Not sure what the plan for today is. Tues is normally speed work. I was intending to sneak in a few hill days. It's a step back week and I don't want to push my luck with the hamstring...I think the hills may have contributed to the strain. We'll see how much time I have and how I feel once I get caught up enough to head out. I'm a bit stressed with everything that's going on and haven't felt the greatest...may just make it an easier day.

Oh...Bib #24829 Wave 4 Corral 1. Am I really doing this??

nkrichards Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:31 pm

Sorry for the long absence the last few days have been rough. Very long hours on the tractor and multiple meetings with attorney's and financial advisors (to fulfill my duties as Auntie Pat's trustee and personal representative). The one bright spot has been that I have managed to get my runs in and most have gone well. Very high stress level, not great nutrition, and not sleeping well but I'm coping.

Tuesday (17th) It was late when I finally got off the tractor. I was hungry, tired and the clouds were blowing in. I almost decided not to run but convinced myself that an easy 5 would help loosen up the legs. They loosened up nicely and I ended up running a 6.25 mile progression run. Very happy with this run.

Wed - Swim 2300 yds with the group.

Thurs - 10 mi w/8 @ MP (9:27) Quite happy with this run also.

Fri - Swim 1525 yds. Sprints...nice times.

Sat - 15 @ 10:13 Each 1/3rd was a few seconds faster. Things are looking good.

Sun - Rest

Mon - Swim 1250 yds Short swim but hard.

Tues - 9.25 mi w/ 6x1 mi repeats @ 8:46 average. Each one was a bit faster...last was 8:34...and it felt good.

Wed - Swim with group 2200 yds

Thur - 12 mi w/10 @ MP (9:41) Still respectable but I think I paid for those fast repeats on Tues and a hard swim on Wed. I think I waited a bit to long to fuel and paid for it in miles 7 & 8 but I was able to get back down to MP for the last couple miles. It was warm and my nose started to bleed just as I was starting my cool down. Good timing. I think my time in the tractor and poor eating this week are catching up with me as well.

Fri- Swim 1025 yds. Very easy swim today. Need to recover for the 20 miler I have planned for tomorrow. Hope my stomach is feeling better by then!

Feeling better about where I'm at. I'm not trained for a BQ but my times are looking better and feeling easier.

Interesting notes...the tractor I've been driving in equipped with auto steer. I have to turn around...it doesn't know where the end of the field is but it drives straight and the correct distance apart. Kind of fun.

Fun story...the grand kids are amazed that Nanie is allowed to keep chocolate milk in her fridge. I informed them it was only for refueling after running so off for a run we went.

Dave P Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:00 pm

nkrichards wrote:...

Feeling better about where I'm at. I'm not trained for a BQ but my times are looking better and feeling easier.

... I informed them it was only for refueling after running so off for a run we went.

nkrichards Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:11 pm

Dave P wrote:
nkrichards wrote:...

Feeling better about where I'm at. I'm not trained for a BQ but my times are looking better and feeling easier.

... I informed them it was only for refueling after running so off for a run we went.

Dave...I think you picked out the two most important lines in that post! I do need to remember that I started this adventure in an effort to be more fit and able to enjoy my grandchildren and to set a good example for them. I also need to remember that for me Boston is not about the finish time but the experience. If I can remember that on April 20th I'll have a good race and a good day.

20 mi @ 10:37 Still not the times I was running when I trained for my BQ but this was a nice solid improvement. I felt better this morning but still not 100% and haven't been sleeping well at all. I was quite apprehensive going into this run. I started at what felt like a very easy pace and was surprised to see that I was hanging in right at a 10:35-10:40 pace. I struggled a bit in the later miles when the wind picked up and wasn't able to speed up but I did maintain that pace. On looking at the data the 5 mile sections of this run were all within a couple seconds of each other. I don't think I've ever done that! Not fast by any means but definitely fast enough. I'm not as beat up as I often am after a 20 miler so that's also a good thing. All things considered this run was quite successful.

The bad news...everyone around me is getting sick! Coughs, fevers, vomiting you name it! I guess if I do get sick now is a better time than during peak training or during the race. I did stock up on Emergen-C and will be adding that to my daily routine!

I normally schedule a 3 week taper...since the race is on a Monday I may try and get in one more quality workout before tapering. We'll see how I'm feeling on Monday.

This still doesn't quite seem real. I keep getting emails from BAA and I got my race info in the mail...am I really doing this...so soon????

ounce Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:45 pm

YES, the big day is coming!

I'm pleased your hamstring is behaving itself. When my hamstring strained 60 days before Houston, I changed my goal from a PR to an official finish. Lately, it sounds like your issue has resolved itself.

Post-Boston, and if the hamstring is tight, a chiropractor recommended to me to do backwards running on a football field 50 yards, then walk forward the 50 yards, then repeat. For me, it seems my right hamstring has developed scar tissue as the thing doesn't hurt during any run, but if I sit still for 30 or 40 minutes, it aches.

As far as the left side being shorter, I would think that your body has adapted but I would wonder if something happens to either side what would happen? I'm curious what the fix would be.

Hang in there, Nancy. I hope the farm doesn't whine while you're gone.

nkrichards Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:35 am

ounce wrote:YES, the big day is coming!

I'm pleased your hamstring is behaving itself. When my hamstring strained 60 days before Houston, I changed my goal from a PR to an official finish. Lately, it sounds like your issue has resolved itself.

Post-Boston, and if the hamstring is tight, a chiropractor recommended to me to do backwards running on a football field 50 yards, then walk forward the 50 yards, then repeat. For me, it seems my right hamstring has developed scar tissue as the thing doesn't hurt during any run, but if I sit still for 30 or 40 minutes, it aches.

As far as the left side being shorter, I would think that your body has adapted but I would wonder if something happens to either side what would happen? I'm curious what the fix would be.

Hang in there, Nancy. I hope the farm doesn't whine while you're gone.

Thanks for the hamstring suggestions Doug. It seems to be doing well but I am keeping an eye on it. I read where sitting for long periods is hard on the hamstring as it tends to shorten...that would explain why I seem to have more trouble when I do a lot of tractor work. I'll have to make a point of stretching it and warming up well in the future if I've been sitting for extended periods.

Not sure why I'm sooooo nervous about Boston. I don't really have a time goal but I'm really stressing. It doesn't help that the local running club has organized a send off get together for me and another local runner. I'm having trouble convincing myself that the finish time doesn't matter...I know I won't be able to convince everyone who will be tracking my progress.

Taper has unofficially started but I may squeeze in one more quality run since Boston is on a Monday...

Michele "1L" Keane Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:39 am

The best approach for Boston (especially your first and maybe your one and only) is to relax and just take it all in. You might even want to just run by feel and forget about the watch. I'm actually considering that approach since I know I can run by effort and I might be smarter. I just don't like to hurt (anymore) and that is probably why I can still run a sort of fast half and a much slower (than my halves indicate) marathon. I ran in 2012 without a watch (it was wicked hot) and ended up running a 4 hr race without even thinking about it.

Just relax and enjoy, Nancy. Start now.

Julie Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:39 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:The best approach for Boston (especially your first and maybe your one and only) is to relax and just take it all in. You might even want to just run by feel and forget about the watch. I'm actually considering that approach since I know I can run by effort and I might be smarter. I just don't like to hurt (anymore) and that is probably why I can still run a sort of fast half and a much slower (than my halves indicate) marathon. I ran in 2012 without a watch (it was wicked hot) and ended up running a 4 hr race without even thinking about it.

Just relax and enjoy, Nancy. Start now.

I don't think I'll ever get to Boston, but I really like that advice. It has to be such an amazing experience, I wouldn't worry about time, then again, I always run by feel (it works for me and gets me even splits). I wish you a great time! Take lots of pictures!

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