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Fracking the system

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Julie
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Dave Wolfe
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Michele "1L" Keane
Mark B
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Post  Mark B Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:10 pm

ounce wrote:So, due to some issues, I haven't been able to exercise since Monday.  This morning, I was able to run the 9 mile loop.  And I wanted to run it as a LSD at a HR of around 135 bpm to see what pace I could do.  I was expecting to pace in the 13's.

It was 68 degrees with a dewpoint of 66 with a south wind of 5-10.  Seems we went straight from lows in the 30's to lows in the 60's in the past week.

1:52:40, 8.84 miles, 12:44 pace, 136 avg bpm, 149 max bpm during miles 4 and 7, 1st half pace 12:39 and 2nd half pace 12:44.


  1. 12:53, 128 bpm
  2. 12:26, 136 bpm
  3. 12:38, 136 bpm
  4. 12:37, 138 bpm
  5. 12:43, 138 bpm
  6. 12:44, 138 bpm
  7. 12:57, 136 bpm
  8. 12:48, 138 bpm
  9. 12:53 pace, 137 bpm


I'm pretty sure this is the fastest sub-13, sub-70% aerobic run that I've ever done.  But I'll check the 35, 5, and 2 blog.  It felt good.  I wasn't hurried.  No pain.  Leaning a bit forward and striking mid-foot.   Approval

Here's a comparison from July 12, 2013 for the same distance.  My weight was 192 then and 188 now.  July 12 was a Friday, so I should have been rested enough (CrossFit was M-T-W) that these two runs are pretty comparable:

It was 71 degrees, this morning, with a dewpoint of the same and no wind.

8.79 miles, 1:58:41, 13:30 pace, 138 avg HR, 154 max HR during the last mile, 1st half pace 13:35, 2nd half pace 13:25.


  1. 13.34, 133 bpm
  2. 13:30, 133 bpm
  3. 13:36, 134 bpm
  4. 13:41, 137 bpm
  5. 13:32, 138 bpm
  6. 13:32, 137 bpm
  7. 13:30, 141 bpm
  8. 13:17, 145 bpm
  9. 13:16 pace, 148 bpm


Woot! That is some real improvement there, Ounce. Many congratulations. Keep doing those, and you should see continued improvement over time. (Nice 1-mile run to blow the gunk out, too.)

So. Cross-fit. What's your goal in this: functional strength, or great guns and rock-hard abs?

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Post  ounce Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:44 pm

Much obliged, Mark.  It's resetting the starting point.

As far as CrossFit, my goal is like it was the past two years, which is to increase the strength of my body's muscles to balance out my muscles, let the running muscles reduce their duty on moving me around on a daily basis, and to get hard as crusty bread abs.  I'd like to be able to do a chin up.  I have 6 months.

This morning and all day, my quads and gluteus minimus are sore, sore, sore from the back squat and the 60 weighted lunges.  The foam roller is getting a work out today.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:15 am

Great to see such improvement, Doug! And I can do 7 chin-ups, so,it is on. (Of course, I'm only lifting 123lbs)
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Post  fostever Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:11 pm

Sore means progress! Props
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Post  ounce Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:43 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Great to see such improvement, Doug!  And I can do 7 chin-ups, so,it is on.  (Of course, I'm only lifting 123lbs)
Thanks, Michele, and gratz on your 7.  7 is 7, no matter how you do it.
fostever wrote:Sore means progress! Props

Thanks.  If sore means progress, then I'm still progressing, this morning from Friday.  And what did we do this morning?  That's next.

*30*

So, I didn't get to run this morning, but my body woke me up at that time anyway.  I went back to sleep for an hour, THEN got up for the 5 a.m. CrossFit workout.

Strength: 5 Rounds
3 Front Squats + 2 Push Press (got to 75 lbs and was fine with that)
*15 sec Hollow Hold after each round
Conditioning: 3 Rounds for Time
400m Run
12 Heavy Goblet Squats  (a 35 pound kettlebell held under the chin with both hands, do a front squat)
9 Strict Pull-Ups  (no wiggling or 'kipping' up - I used a 2" wide rubber band strap to assist.)
6 HSPU’s (or Pike Push-Ups or sitting dumb bell strict press)  I had 20 pounds in each hand.
Time was 13:18

Nothing wears out worn out quads from 60 weighted lunges like front squats and goblet squats. 

Usually, I have troubles with the front squats because my wrists can't stretch as far as necessary, when holding the bar against my collarbone.  Today, it wasn't quite so bad.  I'd have to think it was the time in the 2nd half of the year, when I went to 24 Hour Fitness once a week to work on my grip and forearm strength.  It's the only different thing I have done.

A buddy in the class that doesn't like the running part, but enjoys the strength part, and I tried to convince the owner that my buddy would do all of the weights part of the conditioning in return for me running the whole time that he's doing the weights part.  Didn't work.   Crying or Very sad 

This Saturday is the ConocoPhillips Rodeo Run 10K (and 5K) that benefits the scholarship fund for the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo.  The run is the opening event for Rodeo season, followed immediately by the Rodeo Parade.  Both events are downtown.  The race starts at 9:20 or so.  It was this race (maybe 5 years ago) where I got my max HR of 201 that I use today.
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Post  ounce Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:42 am

Today, I ran the 9 mile course again with a HR avg of the low 140's (70%-72%) to see what kind of paces occur.  I didn't do CrossFit, this morning, as I just didn't want to do 2 'named' (i.e. tougher) wods.  That was a good choice.

The weather was foggy, 61 degrees with a calm to light south breeze and the 100% humidity that comes with fog.  Things for me to keep in mind are the cumulative damage to my legs since Friday's CrossFit and holding down the pace for the whole distance.  I wore the orange Kinvaras, this morning, which are the oldest of the 3 pairs that I own.

8.83 miles, 1:47:43, 12:12 pace, 142 avg bpm, 155 max bpm during miles 3 and 4, 1st half pace 11:55, 2nd half pace 12:29.


  1. 12:05, 134 bpm
  2. 11:30, 143 bpm
  3. 11:50, 144 bpm
  4. 12:07, 148 bpm
  5. 12:14, 145 bpm
  6. 12:24, 143 bpm
  7. 12:37, 142 bpm
  8. 12:29, 142 bpm
  9. 12:31 pace, 141 bpm


My legs are tired.  And since I have that 10K race on Saturday, I'm not going to do any CrossFit for the rest of the week.  This will be my only race until October and I want to have a really good time.  My legs were tired the whole second half of the run.  On Thursday, I'll probably do some speedy kind of running, just so the legs know it's not all peaches 'n cream.

Below are last Thursday's splits (Feb 20) for the same course, but at a 65-68% HR pace.  So for 6 more average bpm, I was 32 seconds per mile faster (12:44 vs 12:12) and the 12:44 pace was on fresher legs.

February 20, 2013
1:52:40, 8.84 miles, 12:44 pace, 136 avg bpm, 149 max bpm during miles 4 and 7, 1st half pace 12:39 and 2nd half pace 12:44.


  1. 12:53, 128 bpm
  2. 12:26, 136 bpm
  3. 12:38, 136 bpm
  4. 12:37, 138 bpm
  5. 12:43, 138 bpm
  6. 12:44, 138 bpm
  7. 12:57, 136 bpm
  8. 12:48, 138 bpm
  9. 12:53 pace, 137 bpm
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Post  ounce Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:23 am

On Sunday, I got back on the LC/HF wagon.  I've enjoyed my time deviating to the Standard American Diet (SAD) in spots, but it's time to revert to LC/HF.  And since I don't have any races planned after the Rodeo Run on Saturday, the blood ketone level is not critical to fueling my legs, as long as I have a positive number for five or six days a week.

My legs have really enjoyed the past two mornings off from any form of exercise.  So in the morning, I'll loosen up my legs for a bit before doing some sprints or fast running ahead of Saturday's race.  The weather for Saturday's race will be around 68 degrees at the start of the race, so the 62 minute goal may not occur.

I did take my blood ketone level this morning for the first time since Houston and it came in at 0.2.  I knew it was the right time because yesterday I was having an interesting time keeping my balance while walking.  This occurs when my sodium level is below what it should be.  And one thing that LC/HF is famous for is a decreased sodium level because you're not eating any processed foods that has a lot of sodium in it.  Last night, I took a 1/8th teaspoon of salt and took another 1/4 teaspoon of salt this morning.  This morning, I'm stable.

2 grams (2,000 mg or 1/4 teaspoon) of sodium is the amount the LC/HF book recommends taking on a daily basis.  And when it's not summertime, that amount works for me.  In the summer, it's 4 grams.  For me, there must be something special about the ingestion being not added to food.  A few times this past year, I would add a 1/4 teaspoon to something I was going to eat all that I fixed in one sitting and I was still unbalanced.  But only when I take it either straight or with water is when the symptom does not occur.

Other people may be different or the piece of the salt that keeps the symptoms away dissolves in cooking.  I use pink himalayan salt, not Morton's.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:49 am

Exactly why I drank Nuun on my log run last weekend, Doug.  The idea was to fuel with only water and Nuun which is a sugar free (5 calories) electrolyte supplement.  I could have drank salt water, but it is too gross.   (I do often put salt in my water the week before a marathon to make sure my sodium stores are up and loaded.)
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Post  ounce Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:53 am

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Exactly why I drank Nuun on my log run last weekend, Doug.  The idea was to fuel with only water and Nuun which is a sugar free (5 calories) electrolyte supplement.  I could have drank salt water, but it is too gross.   (I do often put salt in my water the week before a marathon to make sure my sodium stores are up and loaded.)

Regarding your low carb idea, I look forward to seeing how it works out.  I might be able to modify what I do based on what works for you.  Ah, n=1 experiments!

Last year, I tried Nuun before running and I wasn't keen on the delivery system.  I didn't need the flavor, nor the Fizzy-style effervescence.  So, I just bought me a bottle of S!Caps and took the capsules whenever I felt like I needed them.

I did find that as long as I kept my salt intake consistent, that I didn't need any sodium additives during a run, nor a race.

For me, I don't understand why a quarter teaspoon of salt included during cooking did nothing for my dizzyness.  Only when taking it with a liquid or straight did it mitigate the dizzyness.
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Post  mul21 Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:59 am

I'd be willing to bet it gets metabolized quite differently when it's being digested with food as opposed to on it's own or with just water. There's a whole lot of extra enzymes and stomach acid working when there's food involved and those probably broke down the salt to a different compound and greatly reduced the amount actually available for absorption by your body. Just an amateur physiologist guess, but probably pretty close.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:21 pm

I did not recover as well as I would have liked Doug and that kind of bothered me.  However, I don't think it was due to the "no fueling" on the run, but more to the fact that after I drank my recovery drink and had breakfast (eggs and toast), I wasn't really that hungry and I didn't really consume enough base-line calories for the rest of the day.  Still experimenting...............and will try it again on Saturday since I'm putting another 18-20 on the schedule given that winter will be returning on Saturday evening through Monday.  Bet there is no school again on Monday.
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Post  ounce Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:16 pm

mul21 wrote:I'd be willing to bet it gets metabolized quite differently when it's being digested with food as opposed to on it's own or with just water.  There's a whole lot of extra enzymes and stomach acid working when there's food involved and those probably broke down the salt to a different compound and greatly reduced the amount actually available for absorption by your body.  Just an amateur physiologist guess, but probably pretty close.
Logical.  And with the salt having been broken down in the cooking process, the stomach acid finished what was left.
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I did not recover as well as I would have liked Doug and that kind of bothered me.  However, I don't think it was due to the "no fueling" on the run, but more to the fact that after I drank my recovery drink and had breakfast (eggs and toast), I wasn't really that hungry and I didn't really consume enough base-line calories for the rest of the day.  Still experimenting...............and will try it again on Saturday since I'm putting another 18-20 on the schedule given that winter will be returning on Saturday evening through Monday.  Bet there is no school again on Monday.

I would recommend some salt or electrolytes post-run.  Even if it's 1/4 teaspoon (2 grams) of salt in 6 ounces of tepid water (stirred or shaken) and chugged.

At Houston, I had nothing but water for the whole race.  Post-race, I took 3 S!Caps, which seemed to help my clarity, because I was foggy after getting inside the GRB.  Pre-race I had 2 scrambled eggs and a sausage patty. 

I didn't have any clarity issues during the race.

To me, it's fun experimenting.  Can you imagine how much Hal would've freaked out, if we were writing about this on his forum boards?   Shocked
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Post  Mark B Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:53 pm

ounce wrote:
mul21 wrote:I'd be willing to bet it gets metabolized quite differently when it's being digested with food as opposed to on it's own or with just water.  There's a whole lot of extra enzymes and stomach acid working when there's food involved and those probably broke down the salt to a different compound and greatly reduced the amount actually available for absorption by your body.  Just an amateur physiologist guess, but probably pretty close.
Logical.  And with the salt having been broken down in the cooking process, the stomach acid finished what was left.
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I did not recover as well as I would have liked Doug and that kind of bothered me.  However, I don't think it was due to the "no fueling" on the run, but more to the fact that after I drank my recovery drink and had breakfast (eggs and toast), I wasn't really that hungry and I didn't really consume enough base-line calories for the rest of the day.  Still experimenting...............and will try it again on Saturday since I'm putting another 18-20 on the schedule given that winter will be returning on Saturday evening through Monday.  Bet there is no school again on Monday.

I would recommend some salt or electrolytes post-run.  Even if it's 1/4 teaspoon (2 grams) of salt in 6 ounces of tepid water (stirred or shaken) and chugged.

At Houston, I had nothing but water for the whole race.  Post-race, I took 3 S!Caps, which seemed to help my clarity, because I was foggy after getting inside the GRB.  Pre-race I had 2 scrambled eggs and a sausage patty. 

I didn't have any clarity issues during the race.

To me, it's fun experimenting.  Can you imagine how much Hal would've freaked out, if we were writing about this on his forum boards?   Shocked

Well, could you imagine how much our experiments would confuse/confound/concern newbie runners who are still trying to understand why they don't run every single run as hard as they possibly can? They'd write us all off as a bunch of loons!

Which we are, of course. But still.  geek 
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Post  ounce Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:51 am

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:
mul21 wrote:I'd be willing to bet it gets metabolized quite differently when it's being digested with food as opposed to on it's own or with just water.  There's a whole lot of extra enzymes and stomach acid working when there's food involved and those probably broke down the salt to a different compound and greatly reduced the amount actually available for absorption by your body.  Just an amateur physiologist guess, but probably pretty close.
Logical.  And with the salt having been broken down in the cooking process, the stomach acid finished what was left.
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I did not recover as well as I would have liked Doug and that kind of bothered me.  However, I don't think it was due to the "no fueling" on the run, but more to the fact that after I drank my recovery drink and had breakfast (eggs and toast), I wasn't really that hungry and I didn't really consume enough base-line calories for the rest of the day.  Still experimenting...............and will try it again on Saturday since I'm putting another 18-20 on the schedule given that winter will be returning on Saturday evening through Monday.  Bet there is no school again on Monday.

I would recommend some salt or electrolytes post-run.  Even if it's 1/4 teaspoon (2 grams) of salt in 6 ounces of tepid water (stirred or shaken) and chugged.

At Houston, I had nothing but water for the whole race.  Post-race, I took 3 S!Caps, which seemed to help my clarity, because I was foggy after getting inside the GRB.  Pre-race I had 2 scrambled eggs and a sausage patty. 

I didn't have any clarity issues during the race.

To me, it's fun experimenting.  Can you imagine how much Hal would've freaked out, if we were writing about this on his forum boards?   Shocked

Well, could you imagine how much our experiments would confuse/confound/concern newbie runners who are still trying to understand why they don't run every single run as hard as they possibly can? They'd write us all off as a bunch of loons!

Which we are, of course. But still.  geek 
Just goes without saying.
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Post  ounce Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:00 am

This morning was the warm up or loosening up for tomorrow's Rodeo Run 10K.  Blood ketone level was 0.2, the same as yesterday.  This was a 3 mile run at Memorial Park.  For the Rodeo Parade, Memorial Park is the hub of all the trail riders that are riding their horses into Houston from all around.  So, the south side of the park is roped off for them.

3.00 miles, 32:07, 10:41 pace, 157 avg bpm, 172 max HR

  1. 10:55, 147 bpm
  2. 9:48, 168 bpm
  3. 11:19, 156 bpm


Don't think 62 minute run is in the cards for tomorrow, but I'll do the best that I can.
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Post  nkrichards Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:10 pm

Best of luck for your race tomorrow.  Very Happy
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Post  Mark B Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:59 pm

Giddyup, Ounce! Have a great race.
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Post  ounce Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:41 am

New PR of 1:05:44, eclipsing the 2007 PR of 1:12:41.  10:39 pace in 70 degree, partly cloudy weather.  splits later.  avg hr of 173 (86%) and max HR of 187 (93%)
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Post  nkrichards Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:03 am

Nice job!  Nice PR...again.  Smile
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Post  Mark B Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:02 pm

Another race, another awesome PR. Yawn. Bo-ring! Wink

(Congrats!)
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:48 pm

Nice work, Doug!
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Post  Dave Wolfe Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:51 pm

Congrats on the PR.
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Post  ounce Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:23 pm

Yeah, I need to give others a chance at a PR.  Four PR's out of five races.  Or, put another way, my last 4 races were all PR's.  OR...nah, not going to rub it in.  (LOL)

The goal was a PR and a time of 66 minutes. or a 5 1/2 minute PR.

It was 66 degrees when I woke up at 5:30, this morning, and the race wasn't going to start until 9:20 with 13,000 people signed up for the 10K and the 5K.  It's the ConocoPhillips Rodeo Run, a popular race in Houston.  The 10K runners were released before the 5K runners (20 minutes later) and it still took 6 minutes to get to the start line from the sound of the gun.  I didn't remember this race being that big, but it's good for the scholarships given as part of the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo.  I had warmed up by running a half mile or so, with some faster strides, doing some yoga hip stretches like warrior 1 and laying deep into a lunge, along with some calf stretches.  I will usually have some hip socket discomfort in the latter stages of a race, but I didn't this time.  Maybe the hip stretches helped?

6.18 miles, 1:05:44 (officially), 10:35 pace (officially), 173 avg HR (86%), 187 max HR during mile 5 and the last .18 (93%), 1st half 32:29, 2nd half split 33:15.


  1. 11:08, 161 bpm
  2. 10:21, 165 bpm
  3. 10:32, 172 bpm
  4. 10:43, 175 bpm
  5. 10:30, 180 bpm
  6. 10:46, 183 bpm


So, I've never strung together 6 miles like this before, so I don't really know how to interpret it.  I would appreciate it if y'all could interpret it for me.

I can say that at mile 2, both of my shoe laces got loose.  But I remember some people on this board have let things like that go, until the shoe comes off or you step on the loose lace.  Thus, I ran the race with loose laces and about 6 people pointing it out to me.  This course is about 1.8 miles downtown and the other 4.4 miles is on the roughest part of the Houston marathon course (miles 23 & 24), the double under pass on Allen Parkway ran twice on this course.

On that stretch, it helped my ego (for lack of a better word) that I was running the underpasses, when most were walking them, especially on the way back.  The favorable glances at my pace helped my pace, even though most of the time I was watching my HR, so I wouldn't worry about the pace.  I also loaded about 10 fast-pace songs on my Shuffle to help with pace.  I left Freebird for the last 9 minutes of the race.

I knew my effort and sustained effort was more than I had done for that long a distance, but I WAS pleased that I could keep the pace up.  And looking at the splits, I think those are pretty consistent splits.  Let me know, if I'm wrong.

A humorous to me observation in the last 100 yards, just about everyone when they hit a similar point on the course, floored it.  I didn't pass anyone in the last 100 yards, because we were all sprinting the last 100 yards.  It was so odd looking.

I would appreciate some analysis.  This is my last race until the Fall.  Last night, my muscles were tired, but not aching.  This morning, no anything.  Thanks for your time.


Last edited by ounce on Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  ounce Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:51 am

Again yesterday morning, it was in the upper 60's.  This morning, it was 26 with a wind chill of 12, but dry.  Had I not watched the Oscars, I would've ran and done CrossFit.  So, I just did CrossFit.  CrossFit boxes are not air conditioned, nor heated as they are in light industrial warehouses.  But I'd rather be there at 5 a.m. when it's cold, than there at 6:30 p.m. when it's hot.

Strength: Barbell Complex
2 Clean Pulls + 1 Power Clean + 2 Front Squats
*12 minutes to Work to a heavy weight I did it with 85 pounds.
Conditioning: 5 Rounds for Reps
In 90 seconds, complete the following:
20 Wall Ball Shots (20/14 lbs)  I used a 10 pound wall ball.
Burpees x AMRAP
–Rest 90 sec between rounds–
I was able to do 39 burpees over the five rounds.
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Post  ounce Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:38 am

Last night, I ran 9 miles because it was going to be rainy this morning and possibly icy.  It was 32 degrees at 7 p.m. with a 5-10 mph north wind.

I don't have the splits because when I popped the quarter panel of a BMW who was in the pedestrian crosswalk, my 305 also popped off my wrist band.  I noticed it wasn't around about 50 yards later.  I returned to the intersection seeing my 305 in 3 pieces.  I rounded up the usual suspects.

After taping the street for the outline of the now-dismembered 305, I determined cause of death to probably be crushed by a rubber compound of some sorts.  There was not a big enough amount of a tire print to determine who the culprit was.  The investigation continues and the usual suspects are down at the county lockup, pending more forensic data.

Funeral arrangements are pending. 
But I was not so distraught that I couldn't finish my run!  Priorities. Crying or Very sad  Dead
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