365Runners
Welcome to 365Runners! We are here because we all share a running addiction. Whether training for a first marathon, a new PR, a new race distance, or anything else... welcome!

To stop the banner ads, please register and login. Otherwise, please enjoy browsing as a guest.

Join the forum, it's quick and easy

365Runners
Welcome to 365Runners! We are here because we all share a running addiction. Whether training for a first marathon, a new PR, a new race distance, or anything else... welcome!

To stop the banner ads, please register and login. Otherwise, please enjoy browsing as a guest.
365Runners
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

+6
Nick Morris
Ben Z
Kenny B.
Jerry
Jim Lentz
Alex Kubacki
10 posters

Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Alex Kubacki Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:55 pm

I was thinking of doing a fast finish two weeks before my marathon. I'd be doing 16-17 and finishing about 4 at MP. Is that too close to finish like that? Or should I do the fast finish on the 20 this weekend three weeks out? Thanks.



Two weeks ago I did 18 with 14 at MP as part of Phitz's schedule.
Alex Kubacki
Alex Kubacki
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1252
Points : 6276
Join date : 2011-06-23

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Jim Lentz Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:13 pm

I would do the 16-17 with 4 miles at MP 2 weeks before the marathon.
Jim Lentz
Jim Lentz
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1171
Points : 6664
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 62
Location : Downers Grove

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Jerry Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:49 pm

2 or 3 weeks out, it depends on your recovery time and past experience. As to the fast finish @MP, I always leave it to the moment.
Jerry
Jerry
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2712
Points : 1006505
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Where I'm Loved

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Kenny B. Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:25 pm

Jerry wrote:2 or 3 weeks out, it depends on your recovery time and past experience. As to the fast finish @MP, I always leave it to the moment.

Agree with Jerry! but I have done it exactly that 2 weeks out. I see no problem with 2 weeks out or even incorporated into a mid week long run instead. During taper it is all about maintaining while giving the legs some rest.
Kenny B.
Kenny B.
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2042
Points : 7119
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 51
Location : Jersey Shore!

http://www.365Competitors.com

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Ben Z Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:43 pm

I typically do 20 easy 2 weeks out. Or a harder 20 w/ 10-14 @ marathon pace (or a half-marathon race) 3 weeks out.

So I think you are safe either way as long as you don't do much more than what you describe 2 weeks out. You still have plenty of time to recover IMO. Plus, I'm a bigger fan of the higher-mileage taper compared to the old 75%/50%/25% rule. I much prefer something closer to 80%, 60%, 40% (in the last 6 days).
Ben Z
Ben Z
Regular
Regular

Posts : 698
Points : 5703
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Bay Area

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Nick Morris Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:27 pm

I think that it depends on how your body recovers. For me, 2 weeks would be enough time to recover. How long did it take you to fully recover from your last fast finish run? You may want to use that as a gauge.
Nick Morris
Nick Morris
Talking To Myself
Talking To Myself

Posts : 5109
Points : 14240
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 43
Location : Madison, WI

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Schuey Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:05 pm

Ben Z wrote:I typically do 20 easy 2 weeks out. Or a harder 20 w/ 10-14 @ marathon pace (or a half-marathon race) 3 weeks out.

So I think you are safe either way as long as you don't do much more than what you describe 2 weeks out. You still have plenty of time to recover IMO. Plus, I'm a bigger fan of the higher-mileage taper compared to the old 75%/50%/25% rule. I much prefer something closer to 80%, 60%, 40% (in the last 6 days).

I have done both of the workouts Ben has listed. These days I tend to do the easy/steady long run 2 weeks out. I feel that I have enough confidence in myself that on race day that I will hit my race day pace.

Although I will add this that I have learned that when I get to taper (which I really call it Sharpening), I will reduce the mileage but keep the intensity in my workouts. I believe to many people make the mistake that taper is all about running easy and recovery. It is but really it is about bring the mileage down which will reduce the stress on the body but keeping your training the same.

My key workout these days that tells me if I'm ready for race day is my last hard run the week of the race. So for a Sunday marathon I will go out and do 9 miles with 4 miles @ MP -10 to -12 seconds. If I can nail this workout feeling go and not feeling like it took a lot of me I know I'm ready for my goals on race day.

Example of this would be this past spring I went out and nailed this workout with my 4 miles being 6:18 down to 6:10. I know right after that workout that if everything else feel into place I could run my 6:28 pace at Boston.

Now last fall I did the same workout before Chicago and I had a hard time with it the first 3 miles where 6:55 down to 6:19 w/ .50 @ 6:17. And it was tough, I remember coming home and telling Lisa I was not ready to break 2:50 yet. Although I tried durning the race, I know after 14 miles it was not in the cards and backed off. Ended up avg. 6:32 for a 2:53.

So back to what you were talking about I find that I like to put the work into during the training cycle and feel that my gains are made from week 10 down to week 5 left to marathon. After that everything seems to be maintenance although I believe in keeping the intensity as for the long runs once I get to 4 weeks out they become more of a steady run with a fartlek style. And when I do my 9 w/4 @ MP -10 to -14 feeling good then I know the work I put in during training is going to pay off or at least gives me the idea if I can hit my goal marathon pace and time.
Schuey
Schuey
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2172
Points : 7774
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 52
Location : So Many Roads To Ease My Soul

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Diego Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:20 pm

You have already done the 18 with 14 at MP. Now you need to refine things a bit. I would actually run the long run 2 weeks out with the last 3-4 close to HMP or MP minus 10-20 seconds to mimic what you'll feel in the marathon in the last 10k.



It only takes 1 day recovery for each mile run MP or faster. That fine tuning will also have a beneficial training effect 4-5 days later that you can carry in to the marathon.
Diego
Diego
Regular
Regular

Posts : 599
Points : 5434
Join date : 2011-06-17
Age : 60
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Mike MacLellan Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:09 am

jimd wrote:You have already done the 18 with 14 at MP. Now you need to refine things a bit. I would actually run the long run 2 weeks out with the last 3-4 close to HMP or MP minus 10-20 seconds to mimic what you'll feel in the marathon in the last 10k.



It only takes 1 day recovery for each mile run MP or faster. That fine tuning will also have a beneficial training effect 4-5 days later that you can carry in to the marathon.

But are you suggesting that this last long run (2 weeks out) is a 20? I think 20s are a lot more on the body than even 16s...
Mike MacLellan
Mike MacLellan
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 3191
Points : 10048
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 37
Location : Arlington, VA

https://www.facebook.com/mike.a.maclellan

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  mul21 Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:39 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:
jimd wrote:You have already done the 18 with 14 at MP. Now you need to refine things a bit. I would actually run the long run 2 weeks out with the last 3-4 close to HMP or MP minus 10-20 seconds to mimic what you'll feel in the marathon in the last 10k.



It only takes 1 day recovery for each mile run MP or faster. That fine tuning will also have a beneficial training effect 4-5 days later that you can carry in to the marathon.

But are you suggesting that this last long run (2 weeks out) is a 20? I think 20s are a lot more on the body than even 16s...

No, he's suggesting the 16-17 that Alex was planning on with the last 4 or so at MP-10-20 or HMP. I tend to agree with that theory. I think more than 16 or so 2 weeks out is pushing the limits (for me anyway) and there's a lot more risk to doing it than any benefit you might gain.
mul21
mul21
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1481
Points : 6912
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 47
Location : St. Louis

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Mike MacLellan Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:02 am

Ah, clear now. I agree.
Mike MacLellan
Mike MacLellan
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 3191
Points : 10048
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 37
Location : Arlington, VA

https://www.facebook.com/mike.a.maclellan

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Alex Kubacki Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:04 pm

Thanks everyone. I like the idea of going a little sub MP. I usually recover pretty well.



Martin, in the last week how many days out do you do that 9M 4 sub MP test?
Alex Kubacki
Alex Kubacki
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 1252
Points : 6276
Join date : 2011-06-23

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Diego Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:31 pm

mul21 wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:
jimd wrote:You have already done the 18 with 14 at MP. Now you need to refine things a bit. I would actually run the long run 2 weeks out with the last 3-4 close to HMP or MP minus 10-20 seconds to mimic what you'll feel in the marathon in the last 10k.



It only takes 1 day recovery for each mile run MP or faster. That fine tuning will also have a beneficial training effect 4-5 days later that you can carry in to the marathon.

But are you suggesting that this last long run (2 weeks out) is a 20? I think 20s are a lot more on the body than even 16s...

No, he's suggesting the 16-17 that Alex was planning on with the last 4 or so at MP-10-20 or HMP. I tend to agree with that theory. I think more than 16 or so 2 weeks out is pushing the limits (for me anyway) and there's a lot more risk to doing it than any benefit you might gain.





Correct--16 miles. There's no point running the last 4 at MP because you have already done 18 with 14 at MP. Run them a bit faster.
Diego
Diego
Regular
Regular

Posts : 599
Points : 5434
Join date : 2011-06-17
Age : 60
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Schuey Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:59 am

Alex Kubacki wrote:Thanks everyone. I like the idea of going a little sub MP. I usually recover pretty well.



Martin, in the last week how many days out do you do that 9M 4 sub MP test?

Alex I do that workout 4 days out from my race. So for a Sunday Marathon I will do it on Wednesday. This then allows for any recovery I need from it. So from Wed to race day my week would look like this:

Wed: 9 w 4@MP -10 to -14
Thu: Recovery
Fri: Recovery/Off ( I have made it a habit to take this day off before a race)
Sat: Shakeout run with some pick-ups
Sun: Race

For a Saturday race (like Bayshore) everything would move back a day and for a Monday race (like Boston) everything would move up a day.
Schuey
Schuey
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2172
Points : 7774
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 52
Location : So Many Roads To Ease My Soul

Back to top Go down

Fast Finish Two Weeks Out Empty Re: Fast Finish Two Weeks Out

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum