Stalking 50

ounce wrote:

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Nice to meet Joel - he is a great guy and his family is wonderful. Glad to hear that Callie might be ok!

+1. Gosh, you just might have to come to Houston or something.

Does your training plan suggest running any races or just to build up on your own?

From how Joel describes Houston, I think if I ever went there, I'd better practice running in a sauna while breathing through a snorkel. That anyone can run there at all is fairly amazing.

The Ultraladies plan does not specifically recommend running races, but it doesn't rule them out, either. It does caution that one would need to treat those events as training runs and resist the urge to race. "When it comes to 50-Mile training, go for 'time on your feet' over fast races," the plan says. "The more time you spend on your feet, the better prepared you will be."

It also strongly advises against running distances greater than 30 miles in the last 16 weeks before the race, out of concern of developing injuries that might interfere with the last parts of training or won't heal by race day. "When toeing the 50-Mile start line," they say, "it is better to be a little more under-trained than over-injured!" Hence the plan topping out at 28 miles for the longest run (though it's paired with a 12-miler in a back-to-back).

I've toyed with the idea of doing the Vancouver USA Marathon (on June 16) as a training run, but I probably won't. It's kind of an extravagant thing to do for a training run ... and I know me: I'd be tempted to run it faster than I should.

Mark B wrote:Barefoot Run: About 4 miles

Weather: Sunny, mild. 59 degrees.

Met up with Joel Hare, who is visiting the Portland area on business, and went for a run on a bike path next to Marine Drive, a road that stretches for miles on the Oregon side of the Columbia River. I decided to do the run barefoot.

It was a nice run, but a better chat. Joel and I have corresponded online for years now, but have never met until today. Those sorts of meetings are always fun. We did about four miles (I don't have exact numbers because I left my Garmin at home) at a relatively easy pace. I tried to use my iPhone's Nike app, but accidentally turned it off partway into the run and lost chunk. Ah, technology. Joel (who was better prepared) had his Garmin, and it said 3.97 miles. I think the universe will forgive me for rounding up.

Joel, used to slogging through gawdawful heat and humidity in Houston, very much enjoyed the cooler weather.



A nice way to spend part of a sunny morning. Thanks, Joel!

Recognized Marine Drive! I grew up in Sandy and we used to drive down Marine Drive to take cattle to the stockyards to sell them. Dad would stop on the way home and we would watch the airplanes take off and land. He always bought us a snack. It was better than the movies and cheaper to! Of course that was nearly 50 years ago and they didn't have the bike/run trail then but it still looks the same. Great place to run!

nkrichards wrote:Recognized Marine Drive! I grew up in Sandy and we used to drive down Marine Drive to take cattle to the stockyards to sell them. Dad would stop on the way home and we would watch the airplanes take off and land. He always bought us a snack. It was better than the movies and cheaper to! Of course that was nearly 50 years ago and they didn't have the bike/run trail then but it still looks the same. Great place to run!

It IS nice. I hadn't ever run there before, but friends training for marathons have used that long, flat bike trail for training. The path stretches from the Greshman/Troutdale area all the way west past PDX. We had a few jetliners pass over on final approach, which was cool, and I saw a couple of Oregon Air National Guard F-15s coming in as we left. A great place if you're an aviation buff.

What you couldn't see in the photo, thanks to haze and poor framing, was a pretty nice view of Mount Hood. You could also see Mount St. Helens peeking over trees to the north. Nice!

Hill Run: 6.31 miles

Weather: Spectacular. Sunny, mild and breezy. 55-59 degrees. Gear: Altra Instincts, shorts*, T. Fuel: Post breakfast. Carried nuun in handheld.

A gorgeous day out for my hill run in this stepback week. I used it also as an experiment to test some new running shorts - the "Better Than Naked" short by North Face that's been getting so many props. A treadmill run earlier this week left them dripping with sweat, so I wondered what'd happen outdoors.

The run was on the hills in the country near my house. I ran by effort, keeping my HR at or below my target rate -- I usually let it creep up to 143 while climbing -- while letting the terrain set my pace. It went well, and felt pretty easy most of the time. That's a nice way to feel in a stepback week, especially on this sort of terrain:



Walked first 5, last 6 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 132.

Note: Got on the scale afterwards, and oopsie -- I've gained a couple of pounds. Need to get that fueling need vs. snacking urge balance figured out...

Note 2: The shorts were fine, though they kept wanting to bunch up in front, which makes me worry about chafing on longer runs. Maybe my expectations were too high, but the "flash dry" technology was not as quick drying as I'd hoped.

I enjoyed having lunch with Joel a few years back when I did the Houston (half) marathon. Great guy!

So at this point since you are summarizing...which races are currently going to fit into your schedule by the time you complete your 'peak' phase? Is the waiting list for the original race just that,,,a waiting list or is there actual hope?

dot520 wrote:I enjoyed having lunch with Joel a few years back when I did the Houston (half) marathon. Great guy!

So at this point since you are summarizing...which races are currently going to fit into your schedule by the time you complete your 'peak' phase? Is the waiting list for the original race just that,,,a waiting list or is there actual hope?

Hi Dot! Joel and I didn't have much time to get together, so it was fun that we were able to do it as a run.

I'm still hoping that I can make it in to the Mount Hood 50 on July 13. I'm still 17th on the wait list, but I'm operating on the assumptions that 1) there will be a bunch of drops in the month or so before the race, and 2) many people on the list ahead of me will have given up hope and signed up (and paid for) other races - effectively moving me up the list. It's sort of like playing chicken, but it feels right.

Options 2 and 3 are the Siskiyou Out Back 50k in Southern Oregon and the White River 50-mile Endurance Run near Mount Rainier in Washington state. They're both on July 27, and they still have slots available. I'm leaning toward White River at the moment because, well, if you're going to do something crazy, there's not much point in doing it in half measures.

But my first choice remains Mount Hood. I'm crossing everything and hoping my instincts are right.

Low HR Run: 6.46 miles

Weather: Sunny and mild. 50 degrees. Gear: Altra Instincts, shorts, T. Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee before. No fluids during run.

The step-back in this step-back week really kicks in today and tomorrow. I went out with my training partner for an easy six miles today, on a flatter route that might be kinder to my buddy's knee. We cruised along at an easy pace, with my HR several beats below my target. Even so, the pace wasn't horrible at all, and it was consistent through four miles then slowed a little in the last two miles - but my HR dropped, too. Interesting. If I could manage a low-effort, extra-long-distance run at this sort of pace, I'd be thrilled. (Trails and mountains, of course, tend to throw that sort of consistency out the window, but hey... it's a nice thought.)

Only 10 miles tomorrow, not sure exactly where yet.

Walked at the start and end. Average HR for the entire run: 129.

Mark B wrote:

dot520 wrote:I enjoyed having lunch with Joel a few years back when I did the Houston (half) marathon. Great guy!

So at this point since you are summarizing...which races are currently going to fit into your schedule by the time you complete your 'peak' phase? Is the waiting list for the original race just that,,,a waiting list or is there actual hope?

Hi Dot! Joel and I didn't have much time to get together, so it was fun that we were able to do it as a run.

I'm still hoping that I can make it in to the Mount Hood 50 on July 13. I'm still 17th on the wait list, but I'm operating on the assumptions that 1) there will be a bunch of drops in the month or so before the race, and 2) many people on the list ahead of me will have given up hope and signed up (and paid for) other races - effectively moving me up the list. It's sort of like playing chicken, but it feels right.

Options 2 and 3 are the Siskiyou Out Back 50k in Southern Oregon and the White River 50-mile Endurance Run near Mount Rainier in Washington state. They're both on July 27, and they still have slots available. I'm leaning toward White River at the moment because, well, if you're going to do something crazy, there's not much point in doing it in half measures.

But my first choice remains Mount Hood. I'm crossing everything and hoping my instincts are right.

Do White River!

Ben Z wrote:

Mark B wrote:

dot520 wrote:I enjoyed having lunch with Joel a few years back when I did the Houston (half) marathon. Great guy!

So at this point since you are summarizing...which races are currently going to fit into your schedule by the time you complete your 'peak' phase? Is the waiting list for the original race just that,,,a waiting list or is there actual hope?

Hi Dot! Joel and I didn't have much time to get together, so it was fun that we were able to do it as a run.

I'm still hoping that I can make it in to the Mount Hood 50 on July 13. I'm still 17th on the wait list, but I'm operating on the assumptions that 1) there will be a bunch of drops in the month or so before the race, and 2) many people on the list ahead of me will have given up hope and signed up (and paid for) other races - effectively moving me up the list. It's sort of like playing chicken, but it feels right.

Options 2 and 3 are the Siskiyou Out Back 50k in Southern Oregon and the White River 50-mile Endurance Run near Mount Rainier in Washington state. They're both on July 27, and they still have slots available. I'm leaning toward White River at the moment because, well, if you're going to do something crazy, there's not much point in doing it in half measures.

But my first choice remains Mount Hood. I'm crossing everything and hoping my instincts are right.

Do White River!

Heh. I'll take it under advisement. It would be cool to see you ... for the 4.02 seconds before you leave me in the dust.

Ha. Yeah right. I'd say 50% chance you pass me the second half of the race

Ben Z wrote:Ha. Yeah right. I'd say 50% chance you pass me the second half of the race

One hopes it won't be while falling of the mountain....

Falling off a mountain. Sheesh. Talk about foreshadowing...

Trail: 8.47 miles

Weather: Sunny, beautiful, warm. 68-77 degrees. Gear: Altra Superiors, shorts, T. Fuel: Post breakfast. Ate Picky Bar in two parts, granola bars later. S-Cap before, and at one hour, but probably forgot to take one in my post-summit adventure. Camelback with nuun in it; didn't drink enough.

So, it's a stepback day. 10 miles on the schedule. I considered a nice run in Forest Park, but this mountain that dominates our eastern horizon has been calling to me for months. It's Silver Star Mountain (elevation 4,364), and it's the biggest vertical I can get to from home (2,700 feet, not counting the ups and downs). It was a beautiful day, I'd just read a trail report about a supposed snow-free trail, and I felt like having an adventure.

Adventure, I forgot to remember, often involves danger and mishaps.


The starting point, elevation 1,664 feet.

The climb up wasn't too difficult. My legs settled into a good climbing rhythym, and my shoes handled the *very* rocky jeep trail I was following.



I'd wondered if I'd be able to run at all on this trail (and I barely did) even on the downhills. Now I know why they don't do trail races here.



It'd be quite pretty, and challenging with the elevation change...



Trail surfaces like that may have something to do with it...

It turns out the person who wrote the trail report must have taken a different trail once he got above 3,000 feet, because I hit snow. A lot of snow.



I was able to follow the tracks of others, and the Altra Superiors did a good job on that surface (they did less well when it got slushy).


The final push

I made it to the top in 1 hour, 50 minutes and enjoyed the view of FIVE volcanoes and was pretty satisfied with myself.





Then I got ambitious. There's a feature on a different ridge on the mountain called the Indian Pits. They were created many years ago for vision quests, apparently. Since I was up there, I might as well see them, right? Besides, it let me go on the top of a ridge and avoid the extended snow scrambling and downed trees that had irritated me on the way up.



I was rewarded with some gorgeous views.



Except the trail kept disappearing on me. I doubled back at one point and encountered a hiker who said that I'd just need to bushwhack through a stand of trees, and I'd be fine. I made it through the trees, then scrambled up a snowy ridge line and saw nice andesidic rock formations and the aforementioned pits. They looked like, well, pits.



Then, I had to figure out how to get down. The hiker made it sound easy. Either I missed the trail, or he has a totally different sense of easy. I ended up heading down a boulder field that dropped at least a hundred feet in several hundred yards.



I got myself through that, then still couldn't find the trail that was supposed to angle back to the trail I'd taken up. I mean, I could see the trail from where I was. I just had to get there. I tracked toward it, through grass, glad to be out of the boulders.



Glad to have that behind me.

Then the grass turned into brush. And vines. With thorns. And it got thicker. I was forcing my way through, unable to see my footing, almost getting tripped by a vine a few times, and scratching up my legs.

Well, this sucks. I didn't have much choice but to press on (climbing back up that boulder field wasn't a good option) and was happy to see the brush open up... into an even steeper boulder field that was really more of a stable rockslide/scree slope. Oh, boy.



On the boulders, I could step from boulder to boulder. On this, the rocks were no bigger than softballs. And they were unstable. And sharp. More scrapes, more blood, much anxiety. Then, with the actual trail finally in sight 50 feet or so away, I felt a muscle spasm in my leg. Oh no, really? Here? Now?

I sat down for a minute, and it passed, and I did much of the rest of the descent on my butt, crab-walking my way down. And the last 8 feet or so was a mini rockslide with me as the biggest object heading down.



The aftermath. Well, a small part of it, anyway.

Finally, on the trail. Which, I forgot to mention, was a flattened-out section of rockfall. So I picked my way back down, down, down until I got to the rocky road, then eventually to my car.

Lots of lessons learned here.

1) Don't be an idiot.

2) Don't go off the trail unless you've been there before and know *exactly* where everything is, including a safe way out.

3) When in doubt, backtrack.

There's an old saying that God looks after drunks and little children. I think trail runners must be on that list somewhere, because I was lucky to get away with such foolishness today. If my leg had really locked up on that rock field, or if I'd caught a toe and fell?

That said, it was very pretty, and it was a great confidence builder for my climbing ability, if not my common sense.

So I figured I'd save it for posterity in a video:


And when I showed Alita that video when I got home, she noted that I missed showing off the actual injuries, so she took it upon herself to catalogue them.




Here's the map.

Please just show the videos where you're going "Ouch, crap, dammit" for the slide when you're the biggest pebble.

I guess I just get to go splat, when I fall down on our flat topography. Be sure to contact your congressman to get those boulders flattened and proper signage installed.

ounce wrote:Please just show the videos where you're going "Ouch, crap, dammit" for the slide when you're the biggest pebble.

I guess I just get to go splat, when I fall down on our flat topography. Be sure to contact your congressWOman to get those boulders flattened and proper signage installed.

Y'see, Doug, that's just another benefit of having somebody *with* you when you're doing dumb, risky things: they can record it while you're doing it. When I was going down that last bit, taking a video was the last thing on my mind. Though I have to admit, it would have been pretty funny, in a sadistic sort of way.

Trail improvements would be great on Silver Star - and there are probably better trails than the one I took. (It's one of the lesser-used routes, at least partly due to the fact that the trail is long and - I think - starts at the lowest elevation.) But it's pretty out-of-the-way and used mostly by hikers. A good number are like the guy I met up on top: they hike in, camp a day or two, and head back. The trail running community isn't likely to be seen out there, what with somewhat better options more easily available. Too bad. It's a challenging climb, with gorgeous views. The wildflowers are supposed to be spectacular, too. I was too early in the season for that.

Walk: 2.6 miles

Weather: Sunny and warm. 68 degrees.

Out for a walk at lunch during work. My various scratches and scrapes are going okay, and that mysterious leg seizure from yesterday has yet to reappear. I think something in my quad or ITB cramped with all the strange steps I was taking on snow, rocks and crashing through brush Godzilla-style. It's a little touchy today but not bad.

I was going to go farther than I did, but I felt extra soreness in my ankles (no surprise there) and decided to err on the conservative side. I've got a 24 scheduled for next Monday, and I want to be ready for it.

Well at least you experienced snow - that is about all I can share with you other than yes, that probably did in the ITB and hips. Start doing those exercises that John P posted now! Unbelieveable terrain, I doubt I could run one step on that - I know I would surely be hiking. With snow like that I guess you are not experiencing the hot weather that they have in some areas out there.

Stay safe!

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Well at least you experienced snow - that is about all I can share with you other than yes, that probably did in the ITB and hips. Start doing those exercises that John P posted now! Unbelieveable terrain, I doubt I could run one step on that - I know I would surely be hiking. With snow like that I guess you are not experiencing the hot weather that they have in some areas out there.

Stay safe!

Thanks, Michele! I'll try to behave myself.

Hip exercises are always a good idea, though I suspect the muscle that went crazy on me was my sartorius. It's given me trouble before, and I must have been working it a lot as I duck-walked up snow-covered mountainsides, digging in the inside edge of my shoes to ensure traction. Then, stepping this-way-and-that as I worked my way down the boulder field, then crashing through brush... when I hit the scree slope, my legs were done with the adventure.

It was actually pretty warm up there - and unusually warm down here (in the 80s in the afternoon). It's just that last winter's snow hasn't fully melted from higher elevations. It's often not fully snow-free at 4,000 feet until late June or July, just in time for mosquito (and ultra) season.

---

Edit to add: I forgot to mention earlier that I am sore in all sorts of interesting places today: especially my upper body, which I was using to bend trees - and then hang on to them for stability - as I bushwhacked through a thicket while heading down a steep slope. And my core definitely felt all that balance work I did as I picked my way down the boulder field.

Did I mention it took me 56 minutes to cover a single mile? I was thinking (other than wondering what sort of snakes we have around here) as I blundered my way downslope that what I was doing must be something like the Barkley Marathons, if I did it for 60 hours nonstop, for 100 miles. Yipes.

Barefoot Run: 3.11 miles

Weather: Overcast, mild, a little muggy. Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T.

A cool, cloudy morning. I did my regular barefoot run recovery style, not wanting to overdo the intensity or push my luck on various leg muscles that got a huge workout on Monday.

The run went well. My HR stayed down below my target for nearly the entire run, and it felt relaxing and easy. Tightness in my ankles eased up after a few laps around the block, and I had to fight the urge to pick up the pace a bit as I progressed. No point in pushing my luck.

Average HR for entire run: 133

Mark...I can't believe some of the places you run! You're going to have to try and get over to Central Oregon for a trail run. They have some good ones. I want to run Haulin' Aspen for the shirt.

Sorry to take so long responding to your question on Michele's blog...my computer died over the weekend. We raise specialty crops on 600 irrigated acres near Madras. Our highest value crop is carrot seed. We also raise Kentucky bluegrass seed and peppermint oil. We usually have some hay and grain in our crop rotation as well. We don't have a big place but it's pretty labor and capital intensive farming. Our youngest son just moved home to farm with us so I'm hoping he'll take over some of my responsibilities and give me more time to concentrate on running and maybe even blogging...

Nancy

nkrichards wrote:Mark...I can't believe some of the places you run! You're going to have to try and get over to Central Oregon for a trail run. They have some good ones. I want to run Haulin' Aspen for the shirt.

Sorry to take so long responding to your question on Michele's blog...my computer died over the weekend. We raise specialty crops on 600 irrigated acres near Madras. Our highest value crop is carrot seed. We also raise Kentucky bluegrass seed and peppermint oil. We usually have some hay and grain in our crop rotation as well. We don't have a big place but it's pretty labor and capital intensive farming. Our youngest son just moved home to farm with us so I'm hoping he'll take over some of my responsibilities and give me more time to concentrate on running and maybe even blogging...

Nancy

Hey, Nancy! I love running in Central Oregon. My best run ever was at Sunriver many years ago (it was one of those angels singing on high types of moments), and I've had a lot of fun running the trails at La Pine State Park - some of them barefoot! Hauling Aspen sounds like a fun run, with a very fun race shirt.

Funny that you mention Madras. When I was kid growing up in Eugene, we'd usually spent several days at Cove Palisades State Park. On the drive there, after getting a dipped ice cream cone in Redmond) and get this overwhelming aroma of growing mint as we passed through Culver. It's a beautiful area. I can imagine, what with the irrigated nature of your land, that you'd be cultivating it as intensely as you can. Really, it's amazing that you find any time at all to run. The great thing is, you've got a beautiful place to do it.

Low HR Run: 8.27 miles

Weather: Clearing morning clouds, mild, a breeze. 55-59 degrees. Gear: Altra Instincts, shorts, T. Fuel: Small snack before. Carried water in handheld during.

My schedule is a little jumbled this week, so I ran my sorta-long midweek run today instead of tomorrow. I briefly debated going for a pure hilly route before deciding to run my Llama Ridge route. I did a lot of climbing on Monday, and I didn't want to push my luck. Besides, I wanted to actually run a bit.

The run went pretty well. My HR dipped to 52 before I started (a good sign) and remained pretty steady. My pace was not speedy, but not glacial, either. Pretty much what I've been training for - slightly slower, but for a longer distance - so I guess that's good. I decided to not pause like I usually do at my turnaround, so I could let the fatigue build in my legs without a break. I slowed a little in the second half of the run, but that's okay, too. It's still one of the fastest runs I've done at this distance, at this low an average HR. So it's all good.

I saw both Larry and Moe the llamas, and the alpaca posse next door, which makes it even better.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 133

Barefoot Run: 3.1 miles on dry asphalt

Weather: Sunny, mild and a little muggy. 54 degrees (89% humidity) Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T.

A quick barefoot run before work this morning. My HR was a little elevated (not surprising, considering yesterday's run and my late shift last night), so I kept it easy and didn't worry about the time. I paid more attention to how my left foot was landing - I've been abrading a spot on that foot lately, and I need to figure out what it is I'm doing wrong, because that hasn't been a problem before.

The run felt pretty easy, after warming up, and my splits and HR for miles 2 and 3 were nearly identical, which is always fun to see. As for the foot, I still shredded a bit of callus, but not as much. I think I may be unconsciously pulling with my left foot a bit rather than simply setting it down and picking it up.

Average HR for entire run: 136

Mark B wrote:
Weather: Sunny, mild and a little muggy. 54 degrees (89% humidity) Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T.

Not trying to diss you, but down here, if the temperature is below 60 degrees, we don't care what the humidity is. We're just happy it's under 60!

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:
Weather: Sunny, mild and a little muggy. 54 degrees (89% humidity) Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T.

Not trying to diss you, but down here, if the temperature is below 60 degrees, we don't care what the humidity is. We're just happy it's under 60!

No dissing taken. It's all about acclimatization. Trust me, you can sweat plenty even at 58 degrees, if you're accustomed to it being cooler.

But I fully admit, if you put me someplace tropical or worse, I'd look like I'd just been hit with a bucket of water.

Low HR Run: 10.25 miles

Weather: Overcast, warm, muggy. 61-64 degrees, 85% humidity (dewpoint 59). Gear: Altra Instincts, shorts, T. Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee before. Carried water in handheld. Took S-Cap at 90 minutes in, just because.

My lower right leg has been grumpy for the past couple of days (not sure why; I may have overstretched it), so I took off very gingerly this morning, hoping it'd work itself out. It did, a little, and I was able to do my planned 10 miles. Met up with my training partner about 2.25 miles in and cruised the Salmon Creek Greenway. Saw a few bunnies, ducks and even a beaver busily doing whatever it is beavers do in a swampy area by the bike path.

Though those who live in real swamps might disagree, it was somewhat muggy this morning. Not horrible, mind you, and I'm not complaining; but I could definitely tell the difference.

Pretty uneventful run, though I was happy to be able to make the climb out of the greenway without even having to think about walking to keep my HR down. I chugged up with no problem whatsoever. Very encouraging.

Walked first and last 5 minutes (walking is more uncomfortable than running). Average HR for entire run: 133