Stalking 50

Nick Morris wrote:For starters...I think you need a new pair of running shoes!!!  Also, I think that you are definitely a heal striker

I love the trophy and yes...It does look like you

Lastly, it looks like you are not completely healed up yet from the pounding you put it through.  The doctor prescribes more rest, followed by taking it easy for a while.

*Sigh* I suppose the doctor is right. Dang it, though. It ticks me off. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the creaky places are the same ones that gave me trouble in the race, but at rest they don't bother me at all. I know it takes time for all the little micro-tears to heal, and I should be glad I didn't do more significant damage, but still. Hurry up, already!

The bigger question, I guess, is how can I strengthen those areas long-term so they don't cause me problems? I'll have to figure that out.

(Thanks on the trophy. Charles is a funny guy! And yes, replacement shoes are on my list fairly soon. Or I could just go barefoot full-time.)

How long does it take to recover from a marathon?

How far did you run?

How long ago did you run that far?

I think the math should work itself out for you and prevent any anxiety you may be having about healing up and being able/ready to run again.

mul21 wrote:How long does it take to recover from a marathon?

How far did you run?

How long ago did you run that far?

I think the math should work itself out for you and prevent any anxiety you may be having about healing up and being able/ready to run again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... whatever.

I'm not anxious. I'm twitchy. Restless. Bored. I want to go-go-GO!!!

So wait... I'm getting taper madness not before, but after the race? Hmph. Typical.

(And yes, I know I have to figure out how to recover from an ultra. Not much advice out there on the topic, oddly enough. I clearly have a little tendinitis and some at least slightly irritated ligaments -- which is actually pretty minimal damage, considering what I did. Best to let those tendons and ligaments recover gently than do too much and snap 'em in two, I suppose.)

The things I do to distract myself from running...

So I saw Ben's HR chart, and that got me wondering what mine looked like in my 50. I pulled up the chart, and added in elevation:



Overall, not bad...

It doesn't take much analysis to see the effect of that first climb up to Red Wolf Pass and the should-be-screaming-but-actually-was-crawling descent down the other side (the distance axis is a little off due to GPS error, but close enough). I was walking, s-l-o-w-l-y, and my heart rate plummeted. It popped back up as I was heading to the Warm Springs aid station (the turnaround point), possibly because that was about where the sweeper caught up with me.

The HR got even more wacky at about the time I gave up in disgust but it came back up after I changed my mind (and got stung by the bee) and remained pretty consistent to the end. The only big drop off in that last section came after I had to go over a downed tree and stupidly jumped down from the top of the log rather than gingerly eased my way down. Ow-ow-ow! Idiot. Anyway, I had to walk a bit until my ankles settled down enough for me to get moving again. I still had a kick left at the end of the race, which was fun.

Despite that -- and the understanding that everything went wacky at about the same point where I'd exceeded my longest distance run to date --  I'd say the big trendline looks pretty good overall, especially in that I had it in me to push the intensity back up (albeit at a slower pace) in those last 5 miles.

Now, does that mean I could I have targeted a higher HR/speed and *maybe* finished a little sooner? Maybe, though I'd never trained at a higher HR target, so it would have been a big gamble. Besides, if my ankles had held up, I would have finished a lot sooner this time, anyway, so talking about adjusting overall intensity is a fun diversion, but probably irrelevant.

But, if I try something like this in the future, it might be worth a little experimentation. Once I fix my ankle issue, anyway.

Love the "trophy"!!!  Charles is a creative dude!  What I want to know is how the hell do you wear out the backs of your shoes more than the actual heel?  That is a new one to me...

John Kilpatrick wrote:Love the "trophy"!!!  Charles is a creative dude!  What I want to know is how the hell do you wear out the backs of your shoes more than the actual heel?  That is a new one to me...

That's a great question, John. And how can you erode that part of the shoe on a zero drop model, anyway? There's no cushion, really. It should jar me to the core! But how do you argue with wear patterns?

Also, I found this photo from the race that catches me red-handed, er, heeled.



Now, it's possible that I was on a slight downhill here, and that my ankle relaxes after this point and lands more mid- to forefoot, but it seems pretty clear that the muscles of my lower leg really want to dorsiflex that ankle. (I also notice that I'm kind of leaning back, which ain't exactly perfect form, either.)

The amazing thing is, this is *after* lots of work barefooting and in zero drop shoes to improve my landing! Clearly, this self-improvement project is going to take a while. Maybe if I go barefoot on a nice, fresh, gravel road somewhere ...

Trophy is awesome! You need to use that as your profile picture...

As for the ankle - easy, easy, easy.

Michael Enright wrote:Trophy is awesome! You need to use that as your profile picture...

As for the ankle - easy, easy, easy.

Hi, Michael! Yep. Easy does it. I have no immediate goals, so there's no reason to push my luck. So that means more rest and shorter distances for a while.

Barefoot Run: 3.1 miles

Weather: Overcast, mild, muggy. 57 degrees, 90% humidity. Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T. Fuel: Coffee only

I was only slightly creaky this morning, so I decided it was time to give the body a little stimulation. I went out for barefoot laps around the block, aiming for rougher patches of asphalt to make sure I was landing as light as possible.

I warmed up pretty quickly and didn't really have any problems. I did feel a little soreness in my right foot toward the end of the run, but that just helped convince me to not extend the run another mile.

I kept my HR at about my target, and was happy to see that I was sub-10 when I did. Another nice sign: Before the run, standing by the street, my HR dipped down to 53. Nice.

Average HR for entire run: 135

That HR chart is pretty amazing with the elevation - nice work there!  And just more words to the wise to keep it easy.  I think in reading Wendy's stuff it took here a while to feel normal again after her 50 miler (and she is younger than us) - so no worries!

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:That HR chart is pretty amazing with the elevation - nice work there!  And just more words to the wise to keep it easy.  I think in reading Wendy's stuff it took here a while to feel normal again after her 50 miler (and she is younger than us) - so no worries!

Thanks, Michele! I'd had practice leading up to the 50 in balancing my effort on uphills and downhills. It would be interesting to have seen what would have happened if my ankles hadn't have rebelled when they did. Oh well, maybe next time. (Oops! Did I just think that?)

Anyway, I'm trying to behave myself and allow everything to recover from the experience. It really is just as well. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. I suppose it's a good sign that part of me still wants a goal, eh?

And, just for giggles, I took a video of part of my barefoot run this morning. I'm trying to get a sense of what my feet do before, during and after landing. And while it looks like I'm shuffling fast, I actually am running. Honest!

I don't know how you barefoot runners do that.  Are the bottoms of each foot just one huge callus??

Nick Morris wrote:I don't know how you barefoot runners do that.  Are the bottoms of each foot just one huge callus??

You'd think, wouldn't you? Actually, I think I have less callus than when I ran only in shoes. Remember: friction causes callus,  and the last thing you want when you're landing on rough asphalt is friction. The force is applied directly down and lifted directly up. Sliding hurts, so you immediately learn to not do it.

Now, there are important changes to the soles of the foot through barefoot running, but it's mostly through the development of the fatty pads under the forefoot. Everybody has them, but they fade away to nearly nothing on the feet of people who wear shoes all the time. Those are probably the same people who have trouble even walking to the end of their concrete driveway barefoot. 

I always chucked my shoes the instant I got home, so I might have had a head start over the perpetually shod when it comes to barefoot running. Still, it took a while to build up to be able to go for miles and miles - and that's a good thing, because it also gave the rest of my body time to adapt to the new technique without injury.

Still taking it easy, with a slightly longer run planned for tomorrow.

Which has given me plenty of time to watch that barefooting video over and over and over again. It's kind of fascinating, in a morbid sort of way.

I have this image of me landing lightly and gracefully on my forefoot and with a bent knee, and gently lowering my heel and toes as I spring forward effortlessly.

What I see is my ankle cocked like I'm ready to drive a hole in the pavement with my heel... until my ankle pivots at the last possible instant and I come down nearly flat-footed. I looks less like a gazelle than a hyperactive duck, with my feet flapping down like that.  

The crazy thing is, it doesn't FEEL like that. If anything, it feels like I'm painting the ground with the soles of my feet. To see it in motion is wildly different.

Ah well, at least I bend my knees properly...

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. After all, it is physically impossible for me to go up on my tiptoes. (Really! A PT tried to get me to do it and was amazed that my ankle doesn't extend far enough to make a straight line.) What I think of as "tip toe" prompts giggles from those who can do it.

I'm going to try to strengthen my lower legs (gastroc, soleus - any suggestions for exercises?), but part of me wonders if this is as good as it gets. My feet are put together so oddly anyway that they might not be able to support that much strain on my forefoot. The last thing I'd want to do is to "improve" myself to injury.

Mark...catching up on your blog and race report was sure fun.  

Your race report really shows how connected and supportive the running community is.

LOVE the trophy and the barefoot video.

I almost forgot to mention...the local physical therapist hosted a free running clinic one evening last week.  One of the things he talked about was how important that big toe was.  He talked about range of motion and pushing off correctly so that the rest of the body all worked like it was supposed to.

nkrichards wrote:Mark...catching up on your blog and race report was sure fun.  

Your race report really shows how connected and supportive the running community is.

LOVE the trophy and the barefoot video.

I almost forgot to mention...the local physical therapist hosted a free running clinic one evening last week.  One of the things he talked about was how important that big toe was.  He talked about range of motion and pushing off correctly so that the rest of the body all worked like it was supposed to.

Hey, Nancy! Thanks for stopping by.

I always through the running community was populated by many cool, considerate people... but my experience at Mount Hood and in the weeks that followed have blown me away. These sorts of surprises, I like.

Interesting thought on the importance of the big toe. I can see the PT's point. So much of our natural springiness relies on the big toe, so releasing that "spring" the right way can make a huge difference.

Barefoot: 5.29 miles

Weather: Sunny, mild, a little muggy. 61 degrees, 90% humidity. Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T. Fuel: Coffee

Met up with my training partner at the Salmon Creek Greenway Trail. I've been diligently trying to outsmart myself, keeping myself from running too far, too soon, so I met him at the trailhead rather than starting at my house (a couple of miles away), and I ran barefoot. Ha!

Barefoot? As rehab/recovery? Absolutely. You see, the soles of my feet will complain long before the tendons and connective tissue in my ankles start having problems, so it's a great way to limit the duration of the stimulus. And stimulus I got -- there are some pretty rough bits on that bike path, with lots of pointy little rocks, and I was going "yi-yi-yi!" a few times.

The run was good, as was the conversation. I did discover one disadvantage of going barefoot when you're running with someone: talking makes it easier to become distracted and scuff your foot. Let me tell you, THAT gets your attention very effectively. No damage, though.

We ended up doing about 5.3 miles, at a pace well below my HR target, so I'd say my primary mission was accomplished. The soles of my feet feel quite awake now, which is another side benefit.

Average HR for entire run: 129

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:I don't know how you barefoot runners do that.  Are the bottoms of each foot just one huge callus??

Now, there are important changes to the soles of the foot through barefoot running, but it's mostly through the development of the fatty pads under the forefoot. Everybody has them, but they fade away to nearly nothing on the feet of people who wear shoes all the time. Those are probably the same people who have trouble even walking to the end of their concrete driveway barefoot. 

 That's me.  Maybe once a week, I make the mistake of walking out along the driveway barefoot to get the paper.  YEEOWTCH!  Even the littlest pebbles hurt.  I have no pads at all on my feet I guess because I NEVER walk around without shoes.

I guess you forgot to pay the city to sweep the roads for you before running barefoot.

question.  On your training schedule for MH50, what's the theory behind doing long runs on consecutive days?  I think it's to train the body for the stress (both muscles and brain) of the race distance.  thanks.

Chris M wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:I don't know how you barefoot runners do that.  Are the bottoms of each foot just one huge callus??

Now, there are important changes to the soles of the foot through barefoot running, but it's mostly through the development of the fatty pads under the forefoot. Everybody has them, but they fade away to nearly nothing on the feet of people who wear shoes all the time. Those are probably the same people who have trouble even walking to the end of their concrete driveway barefoot. 

 That's me.  Maybe once a week, I make the mistake of walking out along the driveway barefoot to get the paper.  YEEOWTCH!  Even the littlest pebbles hurt.  I have no pads at all on my feet I guess because I NEVER walk around without shoes.

Give it a chance, Chris. You may like it! I do it because no shoes really fit my freaky feet, but still.

ounce wrote:I guess you forgot to pay the city to sweep the roads for you before running barefoot.

question.  On your training schedule for MH50, what's the theory behind doing long runs on consecutive days?  I think it's to train the body for the stress (both muscles and brain) of the race distance.  thanks.

Sweeping has nothing to do with it. This is just some seriously rugged asphalt - almost chip seal, but not quite. 

Answer: the idea was quality over quantity. Building cumulative fatigue gives you the ability to press on when the tanks might otherwise be dry. That strength never failed me out there at the MH50. Even though my ankles were screaming in pain, the rest of my legs were ready to go. Not quickly, but go nonetheless.

Mark B wrote:

I guess you forgot to pay the city to sweep the roads for you before running barefoot.

question.  On your training schedule for MH50, what's the theory behind doing long runs on consecutive days?  I think it's to train the body for the stress (both muscles and brain) of the race distance.  thanks.

Sweeping has nothing to do with it. This is just some seriously rugged asphalt - almost chip seal, but not quite. 

Answer: the idea was quality over quantity. Building cumulative fatigue gives you the ability to press on when the tanks might otherwise be dry. That strength never failed me out there at the MH50. Even though my ankles were screaming in pain, the rest of my legs were ready to go. Not quickly, but go nonetheless.

 So was the 2nd run a recovery run or was it at the same pace as the 1st run?  Thanks.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

I guess you forgot to pay the city to sweep the roads for you before running barefoot.

question.  On your training schedule for MH50, what's the theory behind doing long runs on consecutive days?  I think it's to train the body for the stress (both muscles and brain) of the race distance.  thanks.

Sweeping has nothing to do with it. This is just some seriously rugged asphalt - almost chip seal, but not quite. 

Answer: the idea was quality over quantity. Building cumulative fatigue gives you the ability to press on when the tanks might otherwise be dry. That strength never failed me out there at the MH50. Even though my ankles were screaming in pain, the rest of my legs were ready to go. Not quickly, but go nonetheless.

 So was the 2nd run a recovery run or was it at the same pace as the 1st run?  Thanks.

Usually, the second run was the long run. The runs were both at long run paces. I could feel it as the miles built up on the second day. I flipped the runs once, doing long-sortalong instead of sortalong-long,  and that was a big challenge even getting out the door!

Rest day today. Everything feels pretty good this morning after my longer barefoot escapade, so I'm taking that as a good sign.

My poor family. I'm not sure if it's the loss of a big, hairy audacious goal, or the enforced reduction in activity, or what, but I've been extremely restless lately. Twitchy. Easily bored. I'm hoping the feeling passes soon, because if it's not driving my family crazy, it's making me nuts.

You're getting the itch to re-start running.  And I'm getting the itch to start training for mine.