Stalking 50

Yurts in Oregon? Looks like an awesome place for a family vacation. How's the wait list thing? (Don't have time to try and scroll for the answer today).

Dave Wolfe wrote:Yurts in Oregon? Looks like an awesome place for a family vacation. How's the wait list thing? (Don't have time to try and scroll for the answer today).

Yup, yurts! They're actually manufactured in Oregon, too (Pacific Yurts). The one we stayed in was 24 feet in diameter, which gave us a chance to put the whole a=πr² formula to use to determine the area.

It was a nice getaway for all of us and a decent time for me to take a short break from running. I'll be back to it today.

The wait list is getting problematic. No one has dropped in a couple of months now, so I'm still at No. 17. It's still three months until the run, so anything could happen, but I'm starting to worry that I won't make it in. That leaves me grasping for something else to do this summer. I have a couple of possibilities, but I don't want to waste money signing up for anything else if I'm not committed to doing it.

Buckeye Trail comes to mind - but it will be very hot even in NE Ohio. You never know Mark, but don't stop now.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Buckeye Trail comes to mind - but it will be very hot even in NE Ohio. You never know Mark, but don't stop now.

No way I'm stopping now, Michele.

The most likely prospects are the White River 50, which is relatively close with good facilities but several thousand more feet of climb/descent, or the Siskiyou Out and Back 50k (the 50-miler is already sold out) in Southern Oregon. If all else fails, there's the "Haulin Apsen" trail marathon in Central Oregon. But I really want to do more than that. A hot-n-humid ultra in Ohio sounds delightful, but that's beyond my budget. (So is pacing/crewing at JFK. Living on the far edge of the continent has a few disadvantages.)

Guess Eugene is off my list (jk). I was really teasing Mark. Buckeye is a tough race in the middle of July, all single track, and the history is that it either rains or is 90F.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Guess Eugene is off my list (jk). I was really teasing Mark. Buckeye is a tough race in the middle of July, all single track, and the history is that it either rains or is 90F.

I figured you were teasing. (But you'd really like Eugene!)

That Buckeye race sounds challenging. Temperatures of 90F and 90% humidity make climbing mountains sound easy in comparison.

What is a Buckeye, anyway? Some sort of acorn-like thing? Odd college mascot, don't you think? (As if an Oregon alumnus can point feathers, er, fingers.)

I will probably put Eugene on my schedule one of these years - either that or Newport for my Oregon race.

And I didn't really know what a buckeye was either, not being from Ohio, but it is actually a tree/shrub indigenous to Ohio with a distinctive nut (see picture). When you look carefully at The OSU logo, there is a branch and nut in it, and when they famously "dot" the "i", that represents a buckeye.



There is also a chocolate candy filled with peanut butter to famously look like the nut. Imagine that picture as chocolate filled with PB - now those are the buckeyes that I love.

I've dug up more than a few buckeye starts that the squirrels plant in the fall as well as eaten quite a few chocolate/peanut butter buckeyes over the years too. I prefer the chocolate/pb ones. Less work, more yum!

I love the vacation pics...especially the wind blown one!

Trail Run: 24.1 miles in 5:38

Weather: Cool, mostly cloudy, a few showers. Muggy. Low 40s-about 50. Gear: Altra Superiors, shorts, T, with jacket and hat briefly used and stowed in my pack. Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee for breakfast. 65 ounces of nuun in Camelbak, S-caps before and on every hour. Waited until 2:38 for first fuel (Picky Bar), then about 4:00 (PB Granola Bar) then about 4:40 for a Gu. Probably wasn't enough.

Most of my trail runs feel like fun outings into the woods. Not this one. It felt like Training with a capital T. In fact, it felt a lot like Tecumseh. Ow, ow, ow.

It didn't help that this was my longest trail run ever. I also picked a more difficult route with more hills at the start, and more technical, rocky terrain. It was also full of slippery muddy spots. I almost did a double loop on that section but realized it'd be too much and "treated" myself to the miles-long climb that is my usual route. I waited as long as possible before fueling... and maybe waited too long. I noticed my HR jumping up to unusual levels, which was frustrating.

I was feeling pretty good with a couple of miles left when I hit the rocky, technical part again and soon had my feet an ankles screaming at me. They were already strained from lots of micro-slips in the mud, and they'd had enough, thank you very much. Also, they were getting tired of seeing other (fresher) runners bounding over these potato-sized rocks like they weren't there. I still don't understand how they can do that; every step jerked my foot one way or the other, no matter how gently I landed. Grr.

Which, of course, made for dark gloomy thoughts. I'm in this much pain after 24 miles? How in the heck could I carry on for another 26? Who am I kidding to think I could ever do a 50 miler? Etc., etc. I told the dark gloomy thoughts to shut up and pointed out to them that despite my cringing and occasional grunt of pain, I WAS still going. So there.

I actually broke out the hose and gave myself a sorta-ice bath from the calves down when I got home. It also helped get the mud off.

Average HR for the entire experience: 141. Walked first 5 last 5ish.

Map and elevation chart:



Is the total elevation change (10,888 up/10,882 down) correct? I have no idea, though the profile is right. (My Garmin program says it was more 14K). And no, there really isn't much of a flat spot on the whole run.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I will probably put Eugene on my schedule one of these years - either that or Newport for my Oregon race.

And I didn't really know what a buckeye was either, not being from Ohio, but it is actually a tree/shrub indigenous to Ohio with a distinctive nut (see picture). When you look carefully at The OSU logo, there is a branch and nut in it, and when they famously "dot" the "i", that represents a buckeye.



There is also a chocolate candy filled with peanut butter to famously look like the nut. Imagine that picture as chocolate filled with PB - now those are the buckeyes that I love.

That helps, especially when I consider this fellah with a head full of peanut butter.



Oh, wait. No. He got fired, right? Here's who I mean.



Oops. Gator Boy Urban Meyer has the job now, but he's the wrong guy again. (But really, who'd argue with the peanut butter for brains observation?)

THIS is the guy I was thinking about:


Which really is an unfair thing to say, compared to:





You would LOVE running in Eugene, Michele. Heck, I might even be persuaded to do it again at some point if you decide to add it to your list. Newport would be interesting, too.

dot520 wrote:I've dug up more than a few buckeye starts that the squirrels plant in the fall as well as eaten quite a few chocolate/peanut butter buckeyes over the years too. I prefer the chocolate/pb ones. Less work, more yum!

I love the vacation pics...especially the wind blown one!

Silly college fun notwithstanding, chocolate/pb "buckeyes" sound pretty tasty.

Thanks on the pix. The windblown shot was fun to take. I don't think we had much sand in our teeth afterward. We would have stayed out a lot longer, even with the wind, had it not started raining again when we were out there. We got drenched!

PM me your address and I'ii send out NE Ohio's finest buckeyes from Malleys. Alex will love them. Seriously

Never seen a buckeye before. Was thinking it was the eye of a deer, then when I saw that picture, I thought it was a plum with a chunk bitten off.

Since Chicago is so flat, I think you should run it barefoot. THAT would be interesting going over that grated bridge that goes over the Chicago River twice.

I admire you for handling all that humidity in your runs.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:PM me your address and I'ii send out NE Ohio's finest buckeyes from Malleys. Alex will love them. Seriously

Mmm. Sounds tasty. Thank you!

ounce wrote:Never seen a buckeye before. Was thinking it was the eye of a deer, then when I saw that picture, I thought it was a plum with a chunk bitten off.

Since Chicago is so flat, I think you should run it barefoot. THAT would be interesting going over that grated bridge that goes over the Chicago River twice.

I admire you for handling all that humidity in your runs.

A barefoot marathon would be interesting; a steel bridge grate might be a little *too* interesting.

And hey... humidity matters! At cool temperatures, it's easy to get dehydrated when it's muggy because you sweat more (and lose more electrolytes) than you think you would.

Still feeling yesterday's run in all sorts of ways. If you asked my body, I bet it'd think I just ran a marathon! Crazy how 22 miles was fine, but 24 was pushing the limits - of course, the terrain probably had something to do with it. My feet kept having to grab for secure traction in muddy patches, almost like running on ice, and that added a whole new level of difficulty.

I'll try for an easy walk to day at lunch for active recovery, as long as it doesn't feel like I've replaced my feet with pegs.

About 2 years ago, I learned that I recovered quicker after a marathon or a very long run if I walked or just stood up until the bottoms of my feet ached, that my recovery was quicker than if I laid on the couch or went to bed. It was counter-intuitive to what I wanted to do or read, but for me it worked.

I agree that the hills did you in, too.

ounce wrote:About 2 years ago, I learned that I recovered quicker after a marathon or a very long run if I walked or just stood up until the bottoms of my feet ached, that my recovery was quicker than if I laid on the couch or went to bed. It was counter-intuitive to what I wanted to do or read, but for me it worked.

I agree that the hills did you in, too.

That "active recovery" helps for me, too, Doug. It seems like I always end up more sore after "resting" or sitting at my desk, etc. I even noticed it on my run yesterday. I'd stop and notice my HR wasn't falling while standing still, no matter how I wiggled the strap. I'd start moving again, and *poof!* the HR would drop. Weird.

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Speaking of active recovery...

Walk: 2.3 miles (at about a 20/mi pace)

Weather: Overcast, 52 degrees

A recovery walk during lunchtime at work. Moving slow was not a problem. My leg muscles are recovering nicely, though my ankles and feet are still a little cranky. Still, it was better than sitting at my desk.

Barefoot Run: 3.1 miles on mostly dry asphalt

Weather: Cloudy and blustery with rain developing. 54 degrees, gusts to 19 mph. Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T.

I wasn't too stiff and sore this morning, so I decided to do my normal barefoot run before work. My HR hovered in the mid-60s before I started - suggesting I'm still recovering from Monday - and had a few challenges keeping my HR down on the mini hill in my neighborhood. Still, I kept the effort level easy, and running felt easier at the end than at the beginning.

Average HR for entire run: 137

Low HR Run: 6.3 miles

Weather: Overcast, cool, cloudy, a brief sprinkle. 48 degrees. Gear: Altra Instincts, shorts, T, jacket. Fuel: Post-breakfast. Carried water.

My legs are feeling better today, and my pre-run heart rate was back in the mid-50s - which was nice to see so relatively soon after that extra-hard workout on Monday.

I went out into the country on relatively flat roads for an easy cruise at a steady pace and low heart rate. My paces were fine, considering, and my effort level was nice and even throughout the run.

Walked first 5, last 6 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 131

Looking for some wise thoughts here....

It's increasingly likely that not enough people will drop out before the Mount Hood 50 in July to allow me to make it my first ultra. My spot on the wait list hasn't budged in a couple of months now, even though the RD sent out an email reminding people to let him know if they've decided they aren't going to run it. There's still time, of course, but I'm getting the feeling that it's not going to happen.

At this point, I'm looking to two back-up races that are still open a couple of weeks later, a 50K and a 50 miler. But I'm wondering which would be the best choice.

The 50K race is the Siskiyou Out and Back 50k (the 50-miler is already sold out). I think it has (based on a race report) about 4,200 feet of climbing over those 31 miles. By comparison, the Mount Hood 50 has about 5,600 feet over 50 miles.

The second is the White River 50 Mile Endurance Run in the shadow of Mount Rainier. It boasts "a staggering" 8,700 feet of climbing and bills itself as "an ultimate test of mental character and physical endurance," but I've read race reports from 50-mile first timers who make it sound not all *that* bad.

Maybe it's the machismo of the course description, but the Mount Hood 50 seems positively tame compared with White River. It seems like a HUGE step up in difficulty. But is it within my capabilities? Maybe? My Garmin told me I did 10,000 feet of climbing in my 24-miler in Forest Park on Monday. I suspect that elevation amount is exaggerated, but it did record twice as much climbing as it recorded at Tecumseh. So... who knows?

Part of me thinks it'd be smarter to do a 50k this year and save a 50-miler (the American River 50) next spring. BUT part of me (my ego) still really wants to do a 50-miler sooner rather than later. And at some level, additional climbing just means additional walking and slower finish time (as if I'm really concerned about time in something like this). But needless suffering and humiliation holds no intrinsic appeal to me, either.

So I'm conflicted, and I'd like to hear what more experienced folk think.

I say you find a nice flat marathon in about a month and take advantage of all this endurance you've built up to drop the hammer on it.....but that's just me, and we all know how insane I think it is to subject yourself to more than 26.2 at a time!

mul21 wrote:I say you find a nice flat marathon in about a month and take advantage of all this endurance you've built up to drop the hammer on it.....but that's just me, and we all know how insane I think it is to subject yourself to more than 26.2 at a time!

Well, I have been wondering what this additional endurance base and hill work would mean in a road marathon... except that I've done absolutely ZERO running at what I'd consider an MP level of effort. So dropping the hammer in a marathon is actually a more scary prospect that cruising through an ultra. Crazy, huh?

Mark B wrote:

mul21 wrote:I say you find a nice flat marathon in about a month and take advantage of all this endurance you've built up to drop the hammer on it.....but that's just me, and we all know how insane I think it is to subject yourself to more than 26.2 at a time!

Well, I have been wondering what this additional endurance base and hill work would mean in a road marathon... except that I've done absolutely ZERO running at what I'd consider an MP level of effort. So dropping the hammer in a marathon is actually a more scary prospect that cruising through an ultra. Crazy, huh?

That's the way I feel too. I could probably get myself ready to race a marathon in 6 weeks or so, though.

Mark B wrote:

mul21 wrote:I say you find a nice flat marathon in about a month and take advantage of all this endurance you've built up to drop the hammer on it.....but that's just me, and we all know how insane I think it is to subject yourself to more than 26.2 at a time!

Well, I have been wondering what this additional endurance base and hill work would mean in a road marathon... except that I've done absolutely ZERO running at what I'd consider an MP level of effort. So dropping the hammer in a marathon is actually a more scary prospect that cruising through an ultra. Crazy, huh?

Well, just for reference, I'd look at Matt M's performance in the heat in Chicago in 2010 after not hardly running any miles faster than 8:00 pace and then going sub 3:00. It's possible without a doubt.

Do the 50-miler.

Go for the 50 miler - but then again, i'd run the 50k and save the 50 miler for spring.