Half a Mile From Tucson, By The Morning Light

Michael Enright wrote:I tended to have leg cramps in marathons until I started taking salt tabs at the start and periodically during races. Has not been a problem since. I take one or two in the chute, and then one every time I eat a gel.

Glad Sandy spared the MCM, and a late happy birthday!

Inquiring minds want to know....brand? And how do you carry them? Schuey gave me some elctrolyte tablets before Boston 2012 and I just put em in my pocket. By Mile 2 they were a gross sweaty mess of mushed up powder!

I never did get that nap so I will sleep like a champ tonight. Might even get out of work tomorrow if this storm ever arrives.....crossing fingers for enough storm to make that happen but not enough to cut the power here. Its a fine line! But we went without power for 3 days this Summer and it sucked!

Nice easy run, Chris and Kev! Belated Happy Birthday as well.

Be careful of the AG thing. The 40-44 age group was much easier than has been the 45-50 AG. In one 10k race, the 3rd place 45-49 male ran 34 minutes. And some of these guys are still breaking 53 minutes in a 10 miler.

Chris M wrote:

Michael Enright wrote:I tended to have leg cramps in marathons until I started taking salt tabs at the start and periodically during races. Has not been a problem since. I take one or two in the chute, and then one every time I eat a gel.

Glad Sandy spared the MCM, and a late happy birthday!

Inquiring minds want to know ...brand? And how do you carry them? Schuey gave me some elctrolyte tablets before Boston 2012 and I just put em in my pocket. By Mile 2 they were a gross sweaty mess of mushed up powder!

I use Thermotabs, which are basically just NaCl with buffers. Probably would make more sense to use Endurolytes, or something that has other electrolytes in it as well, but this has worked for me.
Carrying them is tricky. In once race (Cape Cod, during last year's awful October storm!), I tried something different, putting about 6 of them in a small plastic cylindrical vial. Seemed like it would be great, but after running 5 miles and opening it up, the motion of running had somehow vibrated them all into a fine powder. So scratch that. Instead, I have just kept them in a small plastic bag in the pocket of my shorts, along with my gels. It's tricky to pull it out, grab one, and get it back in my pocket reliably, but generally it works. Not optimal, but adequate.

Thanks Mike E! Dave-O suggested Nuun tabs and I'm going to start with trying those. I had done some long runs with just salt tabs in addition to GU and that seemed fine. Sunday was the first cramping I've had in some time. But I was only doing GUs. I'm thinking I may up the frequency (every 5 miles seems like a lot but I seem to handle them fine so maybe more often?) AND add something along the lines of what you and/or Dave are suggesting. I'll start some testing this week although in general I seem to be like a garbage can that can take in stuff so I should throw some more down. My final full mile with the cramps was 8:06 so it wasn't like I blew up completely. Still, I wouldn't have expected any cramps at all on a 8-paced run in not hot conditions but I guess 26.2 ends up taking it out of you. Time to work on improvements to the in-race fueling plan.

What kind of fueling did you do during the training run? Same as you would do during a race?

As for carrying the electrolytes, I would suggest getting the snack sized Ziploc bags. They're about half the size of a normal sandwich bag and wouldn't be near as bulky as anything else.

Chris M wrote:Thanks Mike E! Dave-O suggested Nuun tabs and I'm going to start with trying those. I had done some long runs with just salt tabs in addition to GU and that seemed fine. Sunday was the first cramping I've had in some time. But I was only doing GUs. I'm thinking I may up the frequency (every 5 miles seems like a lot but I seem to handle them fine so maybe more often?) AND add something along the lines of what you and/or Dave are suggesting. I'll start some testing this week although in general I seem to be like a garbage can that can take in stuff so I should throw some more down. My final full mile with the cramps was 8:06 so it wasn't like I blew up completely. Still, I wouldn't have expected any cramps at all on a 8-paced run in not hot conditions but I guess 26.2 ends up taking it out of you. Time to work on improvements to the in-race fueling plan.

Chris,

When you had your sweat tested, what were the results again? Mostly sodium or also potassium?

I also thought they had new gels that had both sodium and potasisum in them.

Test out more GUs. I always had strong stomach, but recent years, it changed, not sure if it was because I was getting faster or older.

I use Succeed tablets during marathons (especially if it is humid and even if it is cold). I carry two small plastic bags each with two tablets that I take at 10 and 20 miles. I use small ziploc plastic bags that I bought from Zombie runner. I used to try and collect the bags of sweaters and such that would house buttons, but I ran out after a while (so raid your wife's closet first), but then I realized that I needed to get some small one myself. According to a DA friend of mine, they are the perfect size for concealing drugs - not sure if you should google their size in that manner.

The week before a marathon that I am planning on racing, I also add salt to my foods and even to my water as i have had cramping issues in the past. This seems to have worked well for me even in the heat fest that was Boston.

Diego wrote:

Chris M wrote:Thanks Mike E! Dave-O suggested Nuun tabs and I'm going to start with trying those. I had done some long runs with just salt tabs in addition to GU and that seemed fine. Sunday was the first cramping I've had in some time. But I was only doing GUs. I'm thinking I may up the frequency (every 5 miles seems like a lot but I seem to handle them fine so maybe more often?) AND add something along the lines of what you and/or Dave are suggesting. I'll start some testing this week although in general I seem to be like a garbage can that can take in stuff so I should throw some more down. My final full mile with the cramps was 8:06 so it wasn't like I blew up completely. Still, I wouldn't have expected any cramps at all on a 8-paced run in not hot conditions but I guess 26.2 ends up taking it out of you. Time to work on improvements to the in-race fueling plan.

Chris,

When you had your sweat tested, what were the results again? Mostly sodium or also potassium?

I also thought they had new gels that had both sodium and potasisum in them.

Insanely high levels of sodium in my sweat. Not much potassium loss versus normal loss but I apparantly sweat almost complete salt water. In fact two weeks post marathon and despite a diet that is very high in salt, the doctor said my blood tests basically showed no salt in my system. Weird.

In training, I don't do do a ton of GUs. On 20s, I might have 2. That's why I wasn't expecting cramps yesterday. I took 5 total GUs, had some sport drink and water on the course and still cramped a bit in my calfs (mostly) and hammies (just a litte) at the very end.

I remember laughing reading about Lance doing 1 GU every mile in the NYC marathon. Maybe I should be doing something closer to that than my normal racing mode of every 5 miles? 26 GUs by Lance seemed so over the top but the guy did run sub3! Ok, maybe those were EPO doses in a GU packet?!

Our office is closed today and tomorrow. Working from home although I'm not doing much working. Just hanging with the family and relaxing. All is good so long as we have power. My legs feel good post MCM and I think I'll do a very easy/slow recovery run on the mill tonight (again, please stay on power!) watching some Dexter. 6 weeks out from Tucson and everything feels pretty good.

From these pictures on Sunday, you would think all Kevin and I were doing is goofing around out there. Mostly true!

Nice pix! And it does look like you two were having altogether too much fun out there.

Interesting about the sodium loss. Maybe you ought to plan another "training" race just to play mad scientist and experiment with different fueling strategies. Or at least in your longest runs. It couldn't hurt, and maybe you'll find the formula that works for you.

Oh, one extra thought about your sodium loss. Do you drink a lot of water, either in the race or in day-to-day living?

How in the heck do you take such great pics...the both of you?? In all the races I've done not a one of them is noteworthy! I usually just spam the email telling me to buy them. ugh!

Love the pictures!!!!

Happy Haloween, everyone. Back at work after having the office closed for 2 days. I like "working" from home a heck of a lot more! Today is real work. Did get in a run with some Goal MP miles thrown in at the end yesterday so it looks like I'm fine post-MCM. I'd like to do double digits on the mill tonight while Jennifer covers the door for trick or treaters. 10-12 is the goal. Hmmm.....Dexter or Walking Dead? I think I have 2 new episodes of both so its pick one of those shows and watch both. Gametime decision.

I had originally planned on a big stepback week this week but I missed so many runs due to my chest muscle injury earlier, I'm going with the pour it on approach instead. I'm going to do a one way run from my house to National Airport this weekend. I like to do that particular route once before each goal marathon. Kind of a tradition! Its a net downhill run but quite hilly with lots of rollers the whole 19 miles. Seems silly but it really helps mentally going just one direction and not having to do yet another out-and-back. Plus I cover parts of the W&OD I rarely get to and so that holds my interest more than covering the same ground I always cover.

To iPod or not at Tucson is something I will think about on that run. Typically, I do not race with an iPod. But anytime I run solo, I wear it. Hmmmm. I'm leaning towards wearing it for the race. I've done....thinking....two marathons with an iPod. And those were fine. I wouldn't for a mega one like Chicago, Boston or MCM but these little regional ones are very different.

What the hell sort of old, beat-up shoes are you wearing in the MCM pics?

Dave-O wrote:What the hell sort of old, beat-up shoes are you wearing in the MCM pics?

Old Brooks Launch. A discontinued shoe and I used the run to say goodbye to that particular beat up pair. Threw em out after. I am thinking of using (a new pair of) Brooks Launch for the goal marathon. I've usually run my marathons in Lunar Racers and I'm thinking its not enough shoe for me for 26.2.

Hey Chris instead of the pills Hammer has a tablet called FIZZ something. The cool thing is that you can get them in single wrappers. I will bring you some when I headed your way in a couple of weeks.

Oh you and Kevin look like you are having way to much fun! What the heck!!!

Hope you went with Dex. This week's episode of Walking Dead was complete crap.

I have a new shoe I like. Nike Pegasus 29. At 10 ounces, its heavier than the now discontinued 9.3 ounce Brooks Launch I like so much. But similar in fit and feel to me. Heavily cushioned which is what I want for many days. I'll continue to do my speed work and races in real lightweight shoes but I like these new Nike ones and the Launch for my every day easy runs and some of the long runs. Anyone else have a shoe in that 9 - 10 ounce range they like a lot. Many people like the Kinerva and I have a pair. It just doesnt seem as cushioned and comfortable to me. I only like that pair OK. Any other suggestions? Remember, I'm basically opposed to the minimalist thing except for cutting shoe weight to race or train fast. I have zero interest in a "feel" shoe for regular training. But I also can't really run in anything more than 10 ounces without feeling like i have bricks strapped to my feet.

I was going to say Brooks Ghost which I use a lot but in looking it up, it is 11.9 oz so way too heavy. I will probably try the ones you listed as they seem s good fit for me as far as weight, cushioning, etc. I also have a pair of the Brooks Launch but thought they had minimal cushioning. Maybe I just haven't gotten used to them at all, or the other shoes I use are super-cushioned.

Chris,

The Mizuno Wave Precision is 9.6 oz and is what the Wave Rider used to be. Rather than focus on weight, I also look at the forefoot heel height difference. I like the Kinvara but it doesn't have much of a heel drop(it actually has more forefoot cushioning and less heel cushioning). So if you are accustomed to a higher drop maybe that's why you don't like the Kinvara for longer races.

I think the MWP has just slightly more heel drop than the Brooks Launch, a shoe I also love(d). Maybe take it for a test spin. It has been a Runners World Favorite.

I would suggest the Wave Precision and Adidas Boston or Tempo (they might be too light). I ran in the Pegasus for years, but I do not care for the latest version, so I ended up buying a billion pairs of Launch and a pair of Brooks Defyance that I alternate. I have found that I don't really notice that the Defyance is "heavier" than the Launch in training, but I do prefer the Launch for tempo runs. Funny that Brooks still has the Launch on their website and that you can still buy them.

Have you tried on the Flyknit Trainers? They're about 9 ounces.

Dave-O wrote:Have you tried on the Flyknit Trainers? They're about 9 ounces.

No - but I did get a pair of Flyknit Racers for my birthday! Wore them for that 5K I did the day before the Marine Corps. Sooo light! I think I'm scared to use them in anything but a 5K but I love them.

I'll take a look at the Flyknit Trainers and the MWPs Diego suggests. Michele is right about the Launch still being widely available. It seems kind of nuts but I'm thinking I should just go buy like 6 pair. I've already decided that's what I'm wearing for Tucson.

Cassidy's All Star soccer season started yesterday with our first practice. I have 4 girls I've had before but a lot of new faces. We'll practice twice this week, have a scrimmage, practice twice next week and then the All Star Tournament is the following weekend. Only downside to that is that its the weekend that the Schueys are here for the JFK50. So unless I get some kind of tournament scheduling miracle with the first game being late late morning, I likely won't be able to be out at the course to run some of it with Schuey and KB Fitz. But we'll host them at our house before and afterwards and I'll have to get the race stories afterwards. Bummer because I would love to go out and run parts of the race with them and serve as their crew/support.