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McMillan on Tempo Runs

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McMillan on Tempo Runs Empty McMillan on Tempo Runs

Post  Dave Wolfe on Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:33 pm

Thought I would share this link to a Running Times article Greg McMillan wrote concerning the the "range" of tempo runs. Very similar to the Brad Hudson idea about training at different thresholds:

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=21403

Any thoughts?
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Post  Ben Z on Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:49 pm

Great advice. I've found all three types of workouts to be beneficial, particularly the 20-40 min at ~HMP.
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Post  Seth Harrison on Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:45 pm

For the marathon training cycle that I'm just now finishing (Philly marathon this Sunday), my coach saw to it that it included all three of these workouts in a pretty regular schedule. The high end and middle zone LT workouts were done roughly on alternating weeks.The low end LT workouts were obviously incorporated into a lot of the long runs in form of miles at MP or slightly faster than MP. The one thing I'm sure is that I'm faster than I've ever been. I'm just hoping that the endurance at that pace is where it needs to be. Check back for my upcoming race report to see how successful this regimen turned out to be.
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Post  Chris M on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:20 pm

@Ben Z wrote:Great advice. I've found all three types of workouts to be beneficial, particularly the 20-40 min at ~HMP.

I read the article first and was going to say exactly what Ben just did. "8 miles with 4 at HMP" is, in my mind, the near perfect workout to fit into a daily run. Controlled hard. As much fun as repeats at the track? Heck, no. Better for your distance running training? I sure think so. I need to do more of them.
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Post  Jerry on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:05 am

@Chris M wrote:
@Ben Z wrote:Great advice. I've found all three types of workouts to be beneficial, particularly the 20-40 min at ~HMP.

I read the article first and was going to say exactly what Ben just did. "8 miles with 4 at HMP" is, in my mind, the near perfect workout to fit into a daily run. Controlled hard. As much fun as repeats at the track? Heck, no. Better for your distance running training? I sure think so. I need to do more of them.

Crap, when I did 10x800@6:00 pace, you didn't comment good training by running controlled hard, instead lazy was the chosen word. scratch
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Post  Diego on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:58 am

@Chris M wrote:
@Ben Z wrote:Great advice. I've found all three types of workouts to be beneficial, particularly the 20-40 min at ~HMP.

I read the article first and was going to say exactly what Ben just did. "8 miles with 4 at HMP" is, in my mind, the near perfect workout to fit into a daily run. Controlled hard. As much fun as repeats at the track? Heck, no. Better for your distance running training? I sure think so. I need to do more of them.

The workouts I hated most were Pfitz's 12 with 7 at tempo. I always ran those too fast(close to HMP) and they sucked. My favorites are 6-8 x 1000 @ 5k pace and 6 x 600 @ 3k pace with short intervals. You feel like you are flying.

You can get the best of both worlds by doing enough repeats and shortening the intervals to make it the same as a 20-40 minute run @ HMP.
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Post  Chris M on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:52 am

@Jerry wrote:
@Chris M wrote:
@Ben Z wrote:Great advice. I've found all three types of workouts to be beneficial, particularly the 20-40 min at ~HMP.

I read the article first and was going to say exactly what Ben just did. "8 miles with 4 at HMP" is, in my mind, the near perfect workout to fit into a daily run. Controlled hard. As much fun as repeats at the track? Heck, no. Better for your distance running training? I sure think so. I need to do more of them.

Crap, when I did 10x800@6:00 pace, you didn't comment good training by running controlled hard, instead lazy was the chosen word. scratch

Indeed, 800s done at half marathon pace are very lazy....

A 1:21 half guy does 800s at 2:40-2:50 (5:20-5:40 pace) or he shouldn't bother doing them at all. In fact, if Lazy Jerry did his 800s at the pace he was supposed to do them at instead of running them so slowly, he would be a 1:19 half guy.

Wait, how did this thread become a bust on Jerry thread. We were talking about tempos, right?
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Post  Admin on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:16 pm

@Chris M wrote:
@Jerry wrote:
@Chris M wrote:
@Ben Z wrote:Great advice. I've found all three types of workouts to be beneficial, particularly the 20-40 min at ~HMP.

I read the article first and was going to say exactly what Ben just did. "8 miles with 4 at HMP" is, in my mind, the near perfect workout to fit into a daily run. Controlled hard. As much fun as repeats at the track? Heck, no. Better for your distance running training? I sure think so. I need to do more of them.

Crap, when I did 10x800@6:00 pace, you didn't comment good training by running controlled hard, instead lazy was the chosen word. scratch

Indeed, 800s done at half marathon pace are very lazy....

A 1:21 half guy does 800s at 2:40-2:50 (5:20-5:40 pace) or he shouldn't bother doing them at all. In fact, if Lazy Jerry did his 800s at the pace he was supposed to do them at instead of running them so slowly, he would be a 1:19 half guy.

Wait, how did this thread become a bust on Jerry thread. We were talking about tempos, right?

If a 1:21 half guy does 10x800s as TEMPO INTERVALS then 6:00 pace is fine as long as the recovery interval is limited to about 30 seconds. Using 800s as a pure speed workout I would expect the pace to be in line with 5:20-5:40, and the recovery intervals quite a bit longer.

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Post  Mike MacLellan on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:42 pm

"The "tough" of the workout should come from the duration of the workout, not the speed." I like that, especially since speed notoriously leads to injuries, for me.
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Post  Jerry on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:54 pm

@Mr MattM wrote:
@Chris M wrote:
@Jerry wrote:
@Chris M wrote:
@Ben Z wrote:Great advice. I've found all three types of workouts to be beneficial, particularly the 20-40 min at ~HMP.

I read the article first and was going to say exactly what Ben just did. "8 miles with 4 at HMP" is, in my mind, the near perfect workout to fit into a daily run. Controlled hard. As much fun as repeats at the track? Heck, no. Better for your distance running training? I sure think so. I need to do more of them.

Crap, when I did 10x800@6:00 pace, you didn't comment good training by running controlled hard, instead lazy was the chosen word. scratch

Indeed, 800s done at half marathon pace are very lazy....

A 1:21 half guy does 800s at 2:40-2:50 (5:20-5:40 pace) or he shouldn't bother doing them at all. In fact, if Lazy Jerry did his 800s at the pace he was supposed to do them at instead of running them so slowly, he would be a 1:19 half guy.

Wait, how did this thread become a bust on Jerry thread. We were talking about tempos, right?

If a 1:21 half guy does 10x800s as TEMPO INTERVALS then 6:00 pace is fine as long as the recovery interval is limited to about 30 seconds. Using 800s as a pure speed workout I would expect the pace to be in line with 5:20-5:40, and the recovery intervals quite a bit longer.

For full disclosure, I was doing it as a VO2Max. lol!

But McMillian was suggesting Tempo at HMP and Chris couldn't wait to shout out Yeah.

For another full disclosure, I did produce a 10x800 with 2:50 on the 800 later to shut Chris up.
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Post  Chris M on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:22 pm

Matt's answer is, of course, right and the length of the Rest Interval (RI) is crucial for deciding what speed the repeat or Hard Work part of the workout should be. I was assuming that when Jerry said 10x800 that he was doing 2+ minute recoveries between each. If so, then he is indeed lazy and running them way too slow at 6:00 pace. I just prefer the blanket statement without all that important nuance about RI times that Jerry is lazy at training. Fast in races; lazy in training.
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Post  mountandog on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:34 pm

Ha. Just did a 9 with 4 @ 15k pace tonight before I read this article. Doing these workouts by yourself in training is certainly a lot tougher than in a race. I think this is a great workout. Extending it to 12 + 6 or 7 is better yet but even less fun. Mad
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