Breaking Away

Well, that was educational.

After my run yesterday, my foot and ankle got angry with me. I was sore for the rest of the day - a hot, burning sensation that was hard to locate precisely. It might have been one of the peroneal tendons that wrap around the back of the lateral malleous (that bony thing on the outside of the ankle at the bottom of the fibula), or maybe the extensor digitorum longus, which runs in front of it. Maybe both. Maybe neither. It's hard to tell.



Anyway, lesson learned. I'm apparently not quite ready for workouts without a day of rest between. Well, I think that was the lesson... it may have been that runs on less hilly terrain caused more irritation than scampering up and down hills. Hm...

At any rate, I'm taking today off. We'll see about this weekend, based on when the burning sensation goes away.

Mark B wrote:Well, that was educational.

Anyway, lesson learned. I'm apparently not quite ready for workouts without a day of rest between. Well, I think that was the lesson... it may have been that runs on less hilly terrain caused more irritation than scampering up and down hills. Hm...

At any rate, I'm taking today off. We'll see about this weekend, based on when the burning sensation goes away.

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh..... OK, lesson learned - wait - what was the lesson?



Hope the rest day does the trick.

Glenn wrote:

Mark B wrote:Well, that was educational.

Anyway, lesson learned. I'm apparently not quite ready for workouts without a day of rest between. Well, I think that was the lesson... it may have been that runs on less hilly terrain caused more irritation than scampering up and down hills. Hm...

At any rate, I'm taking today off. We'll see about this weekend, based on when the burning sensation goes away.

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh..... OK, lesson learned - wait - what was the lesson?



Hope the rest day does the trick.

Don't be sorry, Glenn. It made me laugh when I wrote it, too!

Update: I was poking around in my lower leg muscles (yes, I have weird hobbies...) when I noticed a really tight muscle just to the outside of the ridge created by the shinbone. Turns out it's the extensor digitorum longus muscle. Hm. A tight muscle up here means extra pressure down in the foot where it attaches... and that's one of the places where it's been hurting... so I started doing one of those "oh gawd, this hurts so good" massages. It feels a little better now - both in the lower leg and the foot. I might be on to something.

But how could that muscle get so sore, so long after I rolled my ankle? Well, it's probably because I've probably been catching myself on the ball of my foot more as I've been trying to avoid crashing down on my ankle. What muscle does the catching? Yup. The extensor digitorum longus. I may have overworked it trying to compensate for the other problem. Typical. My physical therapist says I'm a "master compensator." I was disappointed to find out that it wasn't a compliment.

Ah, the good old extensor digitorum longus. Mine acts up from time to time, too. Generally on long, flat stretches, though. And I hear you on compensating. It appears that I'm not only learning from you regarding a relaxed approach to the Garmin, but also in the ways I cause myself problems. Thanks, Mark.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Ah, the good old extensor digitorum longus. Mine acts up from time to time, too. Generally on long, flat stretches, though. And I hear you on compensating. It appears that I'm not only learning from you regarding a relaxed approach to the Garmin, but also in the ways I cause myself problems. Thanks, Mark.

Hey, I'm here for ya, buddy. Just remember: Do as I say , not as I do.

Good that you identified that tight muscle, Mark.

Jim Lentz wrote:Good that you identified that tight muscle, Mark.

Thanks, Jim. Now, getting it to calm down might be another matter. It wants to be tight.

Makes sense. Mine always used to get tight in my first XC race of the year since I hadn't run in spikes in a while. More of a mid/forefoot strike than normal in spikes which sounds exactly like what you're dealing with.

mul21 wrote:Makes sense. Mine always used to get tight in my first XC race of the year since I hadn't run in spikes in a while. More of a mid/forefoot strike than normal in spikes which sounds exactly like what you're dealing with.

Yeah, that does sound like it. Well, except the spikes, of course. My peroneal muscle is pretty tight, too, so I guess I've just been asking that lower leg to do a little more than it could. I'm hoping to get onto a trail on Monday (I'm shifting my long run to that day, now that wife and child are both away at school for most of my day off.) and see how it goes on dirt.

I think I've said before how I'm trying to find the right trail shoe, and how frustrating the process has been.

Part of it is my own fault, I suppose. I'm accustomed to the sorta-minimal approach of the Free 5.0 concept, and it's hard to find something like that in trail shoes. They seem to be either tanks or minimalist slippers. Where's something in between?

I think I may have narrowed it down to shoes like the Saucony Perigrine, New Balance 101, Montrail Rogue Racer and maybe (if I want a tank), the Brooks Cascadia. But this has all been sheer guesswork on my part - I've never found any clerk at a running store or outdoor-oriented store who has a CLUE about these sorts of shoes. I even posted a question on irunfar.com forum - and the crickets are still chirping. Driving. Me. Crazy.

So today, I dropped in at the REI in Portland. Great news. They had a large selection of trail shoes. Bad news. The people there didn't have a clue. I had the Perigrine, Rogue Race and Cascadia IN MY HAND, and not only did they give sort of an "I don't think so" shrug when I tried to tell them what I wanted -- they didn't follow the MOST BASIC RULE in retail. Even more basic than asking for the sale. They never said: "Well, would you like to try some on and see how they feel?"

I have three pair of shoes in my hands, dude. You think I'm just a looky-loo?

It was as if I needed to beg them to help me. Maybe I'm just a grumpy guy who remembers what it's like to work in retail, but I'm sorry... if they don't want my business, they ain't getting it.

Rant over. (Well, for now.)

Okay. One last thing. The guy told me, "Well, I wear Salomons." And I think "Cool. Some input. This is good!" And I ask him how he likes them, how they work out, etc...

He stops, shrugs, and says: "Well, actually, the only reason I got them was because there was a used gear sale and they were really cheap..."

Sounds like REI fails, Mark. They're generally overpriced, anyway. At least in CA. Go support your local running shop and find someone who knows what they're talking about

Sorry about the REI experience Mark, but I would never buy shoes there unless I knew exactly what I wanted. Hopefully you can find a running store with some dedicated trail runners who know their stuff. Even a RW review would give you better info than that!

Mike MacLellan wrote:Sounds like REI fails, Mark. They're generally overpriced, anyway. At least in CA. Go support your local running shop and find someone who knows what they're talking about

Yes, it does. And is. It's startling, really. They have a wider selection than just about anyplace, but the knowledge is limited.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Sorry about the REI experience Mark, but I would never buy shoes there unless I knew exactly what I wanted. Hopefully you can find a running store with some dedicated trail runners who know their stuff. Even a RW review would give you better info than that!

Good point, Michele. I'll have to keep trying until I find a place with some trail runners on staff - and find out when the people who know what they're doing are in. Too many of them simply want to put you on a treadmill and pretend to be experts in kinetics. I don't need that. I need somebody with mud in their hair and scars from blackberry vines on their legs.

Trail Run: About 10.5 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, mild. About 63 degrees. Gear: FR2s, shorts, T. Fuel: Post-breakfast. Two Gu, carried water in Camelbak. Took two Endurolytes before, two during.

After all this pavement pounding, I had to try my longish run on the trails today. I've been pretty sore, so I didn't know how it'd go, so I decided to just run as much as I could and not worry about hitting some distance goal.

It actually went fairly well. I had a little discomfort, but it was worse walking than running. The outbound route climbed steadily and then ran high on a ridge in the forest. I ran and also practiced walking. The return leg was trickier, because it had a lot of downhills. I focused about 10 feet ahead and approached the trail like I was skiing - looking for the best line down. That was kinda fun!

The trickiest part comes at the end, when the relatively smooth trail of higher up gives way to trail with knobby rocks sticking out. My Free Runs handled the smooth part with ease, and the rocky parts, too - going uphill. Going downhill, after a long run, they were punishing.

I immediately stopped by a local running store that has a good selection of trail runners. I'll report on how that went, later.

Here's the chart. I wore my Garmin to see if I could get even the slightest sense of the elevation gain and distance (luckily, the trail has mile markers on it... the Garmin's distance was off. It said 10.1 (or 10.9, depending on what you look at), whereas my estimate is closer to 10.72. As for 4,520-foot the elevation gain.. well, I suspect that's a tad off, too. )



A few photos, too.

First, the trail, partway in:



And the shoes... which are (ahem) no longer snowy white.

Mark, do you get Running Times? The October issue just came in the mail today, and includes a Special Trail Section with articles such as "Own the Trail: How Trail Shoes Keep you on Track when Off-road", "Top Gear for Short and Long Adventures" and "Top Runners Tell How to Transition to Trails" May not have everything you want to know, but its definately a step up from your REI sales associate!

Glenn wrote:Mark, do you get Running Times? The October issue just came in the mail today, and includes a Special Trail Section with articles such as "Own the Trail: How Trail Shoes Keep you on Track when Off-road", "Top Gear for Short and Long Adventures" and "Top Runners Tell How to Transition to Trails" May not have everything you want to know, but its definately a step up from your REI sales associate!

Sounds interesting, Glenn. Thanks for the suggestion!

I am closer to a trail shoe purchase after my visit to a local running store today. I stopped by there after finishing up a trail run in the hills above Portland. My Free Run 2s did a decent job on the trails, until I got to a moderately steep, oddly-pitched section with knobby bits of rocks sticking out. That was less than fun... and it convinced me I need a little more protection.

At the running store, they actually helped me! I talked about what I think I need in a trail shoe, and the guy suggested four options - the ones I'd been thinking about all along (NB 101, Montrail Rogue Racer, Saucony Peregrine and a pair of Adidas.)

I tried them all on, and pretty quickly dispensed with the Adidas (too much shoe). Then I ruled out the New Balance MT101 when my foot slid all the way to the end of the toebox even with the shoes laced so tight the eyelets were kissing. Next shifted to the side were the Montrails. I could make my toes bump the end - even with lace locks - and the heel was swimming around in the heel cup, which would mean blister city during a run. No thank you.

Both shoes felt pretty good underfoot and would probably be great for some people... just not for me and my freaky feet. I remember one time when I was getting measured in a prototype shoe as a Nike tester when the analyst just started laughing and shaking her head. "These are SO wrong for you!" she said.

That was the case with the New Balance and Montrails, dangit.

The next up was the Saucony Peregrine. I've had a bias against Saucony for a while. I've found their road shoes to be dangerously (IMO) bouncy and cushy. The Peregrine wasn't cushy. It had a fairly aggressive tread that might help me on mud and snow and... my foot stayed where it was supposed to stay when I ran in it. They also felt pretty responsive. Best of the bunch.

I would have walked out the door with a pair, except the size I tried on (11s) were a little too long. It easy enough to catch a toe out there on a trail - no sense increasing the chances with a too-long pair of shoes. They special ordered a 10.5, and I'll try them out when they come in in a couple of weeks.



The interesting thing to me was that these have a lower drop than I thought: about 4 mm, according to this review from irunfar.com.

The man is hurting and then busts out a 10+ mile run - glutton for punishment I see . Good run and I like the map - how do you trail guys always come up with those? Good luck with the shoes - I don't have a shoe store around, so I end up buying them from roadrunnersports.

John Kilpatrick wrote:The man is hurting and then busts out a 10+ mile run - glutton for punishment I see . Good run and I like the map - how do you trail guys always come up with those? Good luck with the shoes - I don't have a shoe store around, so I end up buying them from roadrunnersports.

Well... I had a hypothesis that all the pavement pounding was aggravating my sore lower leg and foot, so I had to go out and test it, didn't I? Evidence suggests that I was right. The one thing about running on a surface as variable as a trail is that your body quickly goes back to its optimum mechanics. In other words, I didn't have time to experiment with landing more on the forefoot, and it appears that my original injury has healed to the point to where it doesn't mind taking some impact... at least on dirt.

See? Perfectly logical.

The trail map came from RunningAHEAD, the online service I use as a running log. When I use my Garmin like I did today, it creates a map and elevation chart based on the GPS readings along the way. Now, in the forest, on the side of big hills, the GPS isn't exactly perfectly accurate. If you look closely at the map, you'll see that I seem to have run on two different trails out and back (which would have had me tumbling down hillsides) at some points, AND I apparently did a little loop-de-loop on the way out. It's pretty comical, but at least it gives a rough idea of where I ran.


My erratic route, complete with the loop-de-loop. Neat trick, eh?

The other map/elevation chart I use is the USATF's Map It service, which lets you build your own running route online. That works best for roads - not so well for trails. Which is why I wore my Garmin today.

Another good place to get shoes online (at least it was the last time I used it) was Holabird sports. They have some decent prices. In this case, though, I'm going to need to buy the shoes in the store I visited today (Fit Right NW, if you're curious). I need to make sure the 10.5s are right... but I need to reward them for knowing how to treat a customer right.

Mark, you gotta stop running under the influence

Jim Lentz wrote:Mark, you gotta stop running under the influence

:Checking legs for scratches:

No... I don't remember going off-trail that much...

Nice loop the loop! You are more agile than I am!

My garmin tends to suddenly plunge me down a thousand feet or so, but somehow I survive the fall and it never affects my pace, either on the way down or the way up!

Michael Enright wrote:Nice loop the loop! You are more agile than I am!

My garmin tends to suddenly plunge me down a thousand feet or so, but somehow I survive the fall and it never affects my pace, either on the way down or the way up!

Thanks, Michael! There's one spot on one of my routes that goes about 40 feet below sea level, according to my Garmin. Who knew I ran through mine shafts?

You can see why the Garmin instruction book warns that you should never use a GPS device like that as a means of fixing altitude while flying an airplane.

Just wanted to stop in and say hello...I need to catch up on your blog but seeing that you are out doing 10 miles at a time is a good sign. So hi!!!

Joel H wrote:Just wanted to stop in and say hello...I need to catch up on your blog but seeing that you are out doing 10 miles at a time is a good sign. So hi!!!

Hi!

Now, go and catch up. There may be a quiz.

Cool stuff with the running maps. I love the fact that my Garmin is off elevation wise. I, then, can pretend that every once in a while, even I get to run a hill or two!