Stalking 50

charles.moman wrote:I am not planning on a 3 mile barefoot run next week with you! At least I won't be doing that! I will do a run, but with my Hoka Bondi Bs on. Still at the Denver airport and soon will be heading to Spokane. Hopefully our family addition will be less jaundiced and out of the hospital today.

Hope the grandbaby pinks up quickly! They usually do, if I remember right.

As to the barefoot-v-hoka bit? We'll see...

Have a good flight, Charles!

Low HR Run: 60 minutes (5.25 miles)

Weather: Overcast, mild and muggy. 60 degrees, 91% humidity. Gear: Altras, shorts, T. Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee. Carried nuun in handheld.

I went back to a small pre-run snack this morning, though I still felt a little creaky for the first mile. I kept the effort level low, and was fairly pleased with the result. Not fast, but not dogging it, either. I slowed a bit, but not horribly so, and I felt a little smoother and stronger as the run progressed.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 131

---

I was looking around at ultra calendars yesterday, and I might have found an alternative race that meets the basic criteria: coinciding with the last Saturday of spring vacation, and close to home or a relative's house. It's the Lake Sonoma 50. Seems like a smallish race when you look at the site, except if you look closer, you see that it tends to draw the best ultrarunners in the country! Good thing I don't go all fanboy or anything.

Not decided on it, but it's a definite possibility. It offers 50 miles on nontechnical single track trail in the prettiest time of the year in Northern California, on a course that is pretty much never flat. There's 10,000+ feet of elevation gain overall.  

Hmm...that sounds like a pretty decent run.  Plus, it must be a decent course if it brings in some of the elite ultras.  Although, in my opinion all ultra runners are elite

Nick Morris wrote:Hmm...that sounds like a pretty decent run.  Plus, it must be a decent course if it brings in some of the elite ultras.  Although, in my opinion all ultra runners are elite

Aw... you say the sweetest things, Nick!

The race is organized by the publisher of UltraRUNNING magazine, and from what I've read, the race wins rave reviews for its organization. They note that, while it's 50 miles of relentless hills, there are few rocky areas and virtually no roots. My ankles went *squee!* at the mention of that.

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:Hmm...that sounds like a pretty decent run.  Plus, it must be a decent course if it brings in some of the elite ultras.  Although, in my opinion all ultra runners are elite

Aw... you say the sweetest things, Nick!

The race is organized by the publisher of UltraRUNNING magazine, and from what I've read, the race wins rave reviews for its organization. They note that, while it's 50 miles of relentless hills, there are few rocky areas and virtually no roots. My ankles went *squee!* at the mention of that.

I say do it!!!!

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:Hmm...that sounds like a pretty decent run.  Plus, it must be a decent course if it brings in some of the elite ultras.  Although, in my opinion all ultra runners are elite

Aw... you say the sweetest things, Nick!

The race is organized by the publisher of UltraRUNNING magazine, and from what I've read, the race wins rave reviews for its organization. They note that, while it's 50 miles of relentless hills, there are few rocky areas and virtually no roots. My ankles went *squee!* at the mention of that.

I say do it!!!!

I'd say it's at the top of my list at this point, Nick, especially after watching this video. (It's an ad for Injinji socks, but it was shot at the race and shows the trails and the terrain. Goregous!)

It looks like registration doesn't begin until early December. I'll have to keep a close watch, because it sold out in 8 hours last year.

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:Hmm...that sounds like a pretty decent run.  Plus, it must be a decent course if it brings in some of the elite ultras.  Although, in my opinion all ultra runners are elite

Aw... you say the sweetest things, Nick!

The race is organized by the publisher of UltraRUNNING magazine, and from what I've read, the race wins rave reviews for its organization. They note that, while it's 50 miles of relentless hills, there are few rocky areas and virtually no roots. My ankles went *squee!* at the mention of that.

I say do it!!!!

I'd say it's at the top of my list at this point, Nick, especially after watching this video. (It's an ad for Injinji socks, but it was shot at the race and shows the trails and the terrain. Goregous!)

It looks like registration doesn't begin until early December. I'll have to keep a close watch, because it sold out in 8 hours last year.

Eeek!!  Sounds like a popular race!!!  I say do it!!

Nick Morris wrote:Eeek!!  Sounds like a popular race!!!  I say do it!!

Heh. I love how much you want to encourage me to get out there and keep doing races, Nick! I think I could say I was planning on a race that took me through the gates of Hell (and back, hopefully), and you'd still say, "Do it!!"

The odds are good that I'll make a play for this. It's 33 weeks from now, which gives me plenty of time to master the sort of up-and-down-and-up-and-down terrain that course seems to offer. Some of those hills in the video look STEEP. I'd be nice to get to the point to where I could float up them rather than plow along like I do now.

If I did it, I'd probably see if I could find a local 50K to do as a training run during the build-up.

Okay, I think I found an ultra that even Nick wouldn't want me to enter!



Ye cats. That's beyond-category insanity.

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:Eeek!!  Sounds like a popular race!!!  I say do it!!

Heh. I love how much you want to encourage me to get out there and keep doing races, Nick! I think I could say I was planning on a race that took me through the gates of Hell (and back, hopefully), and you'd still say, "Do it!!"

The odds are good that I'll make a play for this. It's 33 weeks from now, which gives me plenty of time to master the sort of up-and-down-and-up-and-down terrain that course seems to offer. Some of those hills in the video look STEEP. I'd be nice to get to the point to where I could float up them rather than plow along like I do now.

If I did it, I'd probably see if I could find a local 50K to do as a training run during the build-up.

Sure, just knock off a little 50K for fun!

Show off!
 

Michael Enright wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Nick Morris wrote:Eeek!!  Sounds like a popular race!!!  I say do it!!

Heh. I love how much you want to encourage me to get out there and keep doing races, Nick! I think I could say I was planning on a race that took me through the gates of Hell (and back, hopefully), and you'd still say, "Do it!!"

The odds are good that I'll make a play for this. It's 33 weeks from now, which gives me plenty of time to master the sort of up-and-down-and-up-and-down terrain that course seems to offer. Some of those hills in the video look STEEP. I'd be nice to get to the point to where I could float up them rather than plow along like I do now.

If I did it, I'd probably see if I could find a local 50K to do as a training run during the build-up.

Sure, just knock off a little 50K for fun!

Show off!
 

Fun? You've read my race reports. Who ever said anything about fun?

Long Run: 10.27 miles, with 2 miles on trails!

Weather: Overcast, mild, muggy. 57 degrees, 91% humidity. Gear: Altras, shorts, T. Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee. Nuun in handheld. (Had S-Cap but forgot to take it.)

My training partner and I were on what promised to be a routine 10-miler this morning (we weren't sharing the greenway bike path with racers, like last week) when he decided to explore a dirt path that plunged into the woods along a marshy field. I've ran past it for years and never really used it. I tried it once when it was wet and found parts of it flooded and impassable -- but it hasn't rained here in months, so this was a good time to go exploring.

The trail was primitive in spots, and wet around a couple of springs, but it was otherwise pretty nice. It's my first time running on trails in a while, so I could feel the trail muscles kicking in. And I could feel them get disappointed when we emerged from the woods on the return trip and went back onto the asphalt.

I did a better job reining in our effort level, though we did drift up a few times. But it was nothing like the impromptu tempo session in the middle of our last Sunday run.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 135

Barefoot Run: 3 miles with Charles! (who was about as far from barefoot as you could get)

Weather: Overcast, muggy. 62 degrees, 97% humidity. Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T. Fuel: Nada.

Charles Moman and his wife, Susie, were here to visit for a day and a half, so Charles and I just had to head out for at least a brief run. We made a great pair: me barefoot, him with Hokas.



We took it easy (Charles uses a 5/1 run/walk system) as we chatted and enjoyed the morning. We wrapped it up at about 3 miles, which was good for getting the kinks out.

Later in the day, up on Mount Hood, I got Charles to ditch his shoes and try a little barefooting on the Pacific Crest Trail. He handled it well, of course.

And, of course, we captured it on video.



Don't worry. Everybody survived.

Charles also interviewed me later in the day for one of his 365 Runner interviews. Not sure when he intended to post that. I apologize in advance for rambling, but hey, what else would you expect?

Charles and Susie are already in Southern California now. It was a nice visit.

Any home video that ends with an impact is a terrific home video - nice!

Looking forward to the interview. Looks like a fun surface to barefoot on.

I will post it next week after we get home. It was dangerous having two talkers and a writer to boot doing an interview! But is a good one and you will enjoy "meeting" Mark.

Michael Enright wrote:Any home video that ends with an impact is a terrific home video - nice!

Looking forward to the interview. Looks like a fun surface to barefoot on.

Thanks, Michael! One thing I will say about barefooting: Especially when you're running downhill, it's not like you're going to be able to stop on a dime.  

Like I said above everybody (and the iPhone) survived the crash.  

charles.moman wrote:I will post it next week after we get home. It was dangerous having two talkers and a writer to boot doing an interview! But is a good one and you will enjoy "meeting" Mark.

It was great spending some time with you and Susie, Charles. Perhaps we'll hook up again at some far-flung ultra someday.

Hilly Run: 6.27 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, warm and humid. 66 degrees, 64-degree dew point. Gear: Instincts, shorts, T. Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee before. Carried nuun in handheld.

I skipped my run yesterday, so I decided to do something a little more vigorous today: my first hill run since Mount Hood. I went out into the hills north of where I live and tried to granny-gear it up one side while relaxing down the other. I could tell it'd been a while since I ran hills, but it went pretty well. I only had to walk on a couple of the steepest bits on the return trip.



If I end up doing the Lake Sonoma ultra next spring, I'll be spending a lot of time on these up-and-down routes. With practice and some luck, I'll get to the point to where I can spend more time running uphill than walking.

One thing of note: It was warm (we keep setting records for highest low temperatures this summer) and extra muggy. I wore my super-whiz-bang cooling shirt and it worked fine - though I think it's meant more for super hot and dry conditions than warm and humid. No matter. It was comfy and well worth the purchase. (It's moisture-trapping properties would be a poor choice, however, as a base layer during winter running.)

Walked first and last 5 minutes or so. Average HR for entire run: 132

Here's a bit of shoe weirdness for you...

My Instincts came with two different types of insoles: a standard "contour" insole that resembles what  you see in most shoes, and a thinner "strengthen" insole that lays flat in the bottom of  the shoe with no hint of arch support. 

I wore the contour insole in my last pair of Instincts, and squashed the insoles as flat as a piece of paper over 700 miles. So I figured I might as well try the flatter ones, which are also about 2 mm thinner than the "contour" version. 

Except here's the thing: They wouldn't stay put! Every time I wore them, the insoles would migrate to the back of the shoe like some cheap throw rug. I'd develop a quarter inch of insole-free space in the toe as the heel end of the insole slowly crept up the back of my heel. It was very strange. 

I chatted online with Altra. They said it had to be some sort of defect, and they said I should take it back to the running store. I brought it back and wasn't surprised when they looked at me like I was crazy. The manager said he's had that trouble with a different model and suggested just gluing it down. I thought about it, and also about using some sort of double-sided tape, but with my luck, my super-sensitive feet would complain about having something under the insole. 

The inside of the shoe has a perforated rubbery surface, so going insole-free wasn't really an option.

Soo.... I gave up and put in the thicker insoles. Maybe they're resilient enough to hold their position in the shoe. At any rate, I'm sure I'll smash them down soon enough. 

One thing I am wondering, though. (Other than if those super-floppy thin insoles work for anybody.) I have had some extra creakiness in my feet and lower legs. I can't imagine there was that much difference in the insoles, but if that goes away, I may change my mind. Very weird.

---

Running update: It's been seven weeks since Mount Hood, and I've been keeping the mileage low and generally easy, running when time allows. That'll change next week when Alec and Alita go back to school and I find myself with a lot more unsupervised time. My plan is to slowly build the miles and see what happens. I'm still thinking about the Lake Sonoma 50 next April, so I have plenty of time to get ready.

I'm also planning on a MAF test tomorrow morning. I'd like to see where my fitness is after my race and recovery period.

Are there any bookies with odds on the MAF for tomorrow?

Weird shoes for weird feet...I mean UNIQUE shoes for UNIQUE feet.  Maybe velcro them in.

ounce wrote:Are there any bookies with odds on the MAF for tomorrow?

Weird shoes for weird feet...I mean UNIQUE shoes for UNIQUE feet.  Maybe velcro them in.

Thought about something like velcro, but I'd feel the different surface underfoot and go completely, utterly, insane. I'm the sort of guy who has to stop and pull out a piece of grit the size of a grain of salt when it sneaks into my sock. 

The over-under on the MAF is that it'll be over, not under, my times from shortly before the ultra.

I hope the MAF test goes well and you keep recovering safely. Enjoy the less supervised time!

Weird about the shoes.

MAF Test: 6.25 miles

Weather: Sunny, humid, a slight breeze. 60-64 degrees, 91% humidity. Gear: Instincts, shorts, T (shed). Fuel: Grape Nuts and coffee. Water in handheld. Took one Endurolyte before.

I went out for a MAF test this morning to see how my body is doing seven weeks after the Mount Hood 50. I was wondering how much fitness I've lost in the recovery period as I healed up and eased back into running.

It was a beautiful morning but not the the perfect day for a test (sunny and muggy), and I'd done hills a couple of days ago... so I wasn't expecting anything spectacular. It was a little challenging keeping my HR in the right spot, and my legs felt a bit creaky throughout.

I had some company on the track for the first couple of miles, but I was glad when they left - I ditched my shirt and circled the track, probably reflecting enough light to be seen from space.  

The first MAF mile came in at 9:45 - 14 seconds slower than two months ago - and my pace fell off in subsequent miles, falling to 10:32 in Mile 5.



Not great, but not surprising. I'll take this and build from here.

Walked first 5 minutes in the warm-up mile, then another 5 minutes after I was done. Average HR for the entire run: 132.

Julie wrote:I hope the MAF test goes well and you keep recovering safely. Enjoy the less supervised time!

So far, so good, Julie! After seeing my MAF times (look above), I know I need to slowly extend my easy low HR mileage and not jump into crazed hill-climbing mode until I'm ready. The less supervised time will be a weird transition, but it always is. I end up seeing my family a lot less during the school year.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Weird about the shoes.  

Totally weird! I checked the less-flacid insoles I swapped in today, and they're exactly where they're supposed to be. I'm guessing the thinner insoles aren't rigid enough to resist whatever backward forces get applied inside the shoe. That, or their underside is too smooth and just slides on the top of the midsole. I can't imagine this isn't a problem for others, but you never know.

So, Julie wrote something that's gotten me thinking.

Julie wrote: ... keep recovering safely ...

I'm all for recovering safely. I came back too soon after a BQ attempt in 2010 and burned myself out for a startlingly long time. It wasn't until this year that I felt I was making real progress again. So the last thing I want to do is push it over the line and screw up years of slow rebuilding now.

But since we're all an experiment of one, I have to admit that I'm not sure where that line is.

My runs seem to have been going well, though I'm more sore and creaky between runs than usual. That might be due to running/walking less and sitting on my backside more, but it's similar to how it felt when I was careening toward a cliff three years ago. And that's got me a little nervous. It didn't help that I checked my MAF test results from yesterday against my pre/during burnout MAF tests in 2010... and found the numbers to be quite similar. That could mean nothing, of course, but it might be something, too.

Part of me says that I didn't really push myself that hard during my 50-miler - at least compared with letting it all hang out in a BQ attempt - but what do I know? My legs were screaming at me pretty loudly that day, and that night, so maybe there's still trauma to be healed. I don't know. But I'd like to.

The only thing I can do, I suppose, is to be cautious going forward. Stay in the low-HR range. Keep the runs short for now. Walk. And for heaven's sake, don't try to "fix" whatever deficiencies I discovered on the trail in the next two weeks!

Thanks for listening. Any thoughts or suggestions? I'd be interested to learn about how long it took others who went ultra-long to recover before they were ready to get back to it again.