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Training with Flies

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Training with Flies - Page 2 Empty Re: Training with Flies

Post  ounce Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:30 pm

nkrichards wrote:I can't believe it's been nearly 3 years since your cardiac event.  Time flies.  Very Happy  I passed my 7 year anniversary in April.  Dr. B says the more distance you put between your event the less likely you are to have another.  5 years is the magic number.  They stopped doing an annual ECG after 5 years.  I just have to chat every year and can choose video if I want.  Good to hear that you're now pushing through and doing some things you haven't done since your event.

I also have trouble finding shorts I like.  Like you, I prefer a longer inseam and a loose fit.  I can't imagine wearing tight short shorts.   What a Face  And I like 2 in 1 shorts with a more significant liner.  I often choose men's shorts.

Your mileage progression is coming along nicely.  You seem to be handling the gradual increase in mileage well and are able to still get some lifting in.  I'm interested to see how much your pace improves as the weather moderates.  I think the cadence work will pay off.  bounce

Stay safe out there.
Re:  the heart attack and the magic number.  Gosh, I hope so.
Re:  handling the gradual increase well.  Gosh, I hope so.
Re:  the cadence work paying off.  Gosh, I hope so.

Strokes run in my family, so I'll have to consider that possibility with stopping the plavix and aspirin.  Aspirin exacerbates a hemorrhagic stroke (bleeder) in the brain because it won't (or slow to) clot.  Being an active runner for as long as I am able to run may be the best prophylaxis.  I'm good for a half marathon and its training every year.

As I progress, this month, to a 16 mile long run, I have to formulate a plan or two with flies for the 11 weeks after Labor Day until that possible Thanksgiving marathon in Dallas PLUS another 7 weeks to the January 15 Houston.

September weather will be still warm in the low 90s and low 70s.  So, the cadence can be increased much like I'm doing now.

I can tell you that my bias is towards running long runs no less than 16 up to 24 miles.  I think I need to tell the body to expect a high level of mileage (relative to what MY mileage is per week) until Houston.  I can envision between Halloween and New Years to alternate running 18 one week and 24 the next.  Running 24 miles at a pace to finish 26 in 6 hours has always given me tremendous confidence for the race.  After all, if I can run 24, I can run a stinkin' 2.6 miles (we always run longer than 26.2 in a race).

A buildup from September 12 to Halloween (7 weeks) to around 22 miles I think is doable by doing over 7 weeks (18-16-19-17-20-18-21).  I've only ever done 1 24 mile long run, but I remember one year I did 3 20s.  Then do a 24 around mid-November.

Nancy, I'm curious what long run day distances you've done during the 3 week TAPER MADNESS time period.  I don't think you do a full 3 week taper, but I'm curious how you have been doing your's.  Thoughts on the above are welcomed.

-30-
Lifted this morning.  That went well.  Dozing a bit at the moment, so I reckon a nap after work will be nice.  7 miles for tomorrow.  That will give me 23 miles for the week (12, 4, 7).  Monday will be 13.

moochus graceeus.
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Post  Mark B Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:44 am

Looking good, Doug. You're putting in the work, and it should pay off. 

Alternating 18 and 24 mile long runs seems like a lot to me. Be sure to give your body enough time to recover. Maybe throw in a 12 every once in a while?

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Post  ounce Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:46 pm

Mark B wrote:Looking good, Doug. You're putting in the work, and it should pay off. 

Alternating 18 and 24 mile long runs seems like a lot to me. Be sure to give your body enough time to recover. Maybe throw in a 12 every once in a while?
Thanks, Mark.

I, originally, had 22 or 20 as an alternate.  Then I thought (rare occasion), that's only an hour or a 30 minute break from a 24 mile run.  So, 18 became the figure because that'll be 90 minutes shorter than a 24.  

I want the body to get used to doing 24's.  If I can do a 24 at a 5 hr 15 minute pace, then I'll be fine on race day.  That's where the Dallas race might come in handy.  If I can do that race in less than 6 hours, then I ought to be able to do Houston the next January.  I need to come close to finishing that race in 6 hours.  I'm not looking forward to doing their course, which is 8 loops of 3.1 plus another amount at the start to fill in the difference.  Their cutoff is however long it takes you.

So, there's plenty of time and choices over the next 5 months.
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Post  nkrichards Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:30 pm

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:Looking good, Doug. You're putting in the work, and it should pay off. 

Alternating 18 and 24 mile long runs seems like a lot to me. Be sure to give your body enough time to recover. Maybe throw in a 12 every once in a while?
Thanks, Mark.

I, originally, had 22 or 20 as an alternate.  Then I thought (rare occasion), that's only an hour or a 30 minute break from a 24 mile run.  So, 18 became the figure because that'll be 90 minutes shorter than a 24.  

I want the body to get used to doing 24's.  If I can do a 24 at a 5 hr 15 minute pace, then I'll be fine on race day.  That's where the Dallas race might come in handy.  If I can do that race in less than 6 hours, then I ought to be able to do Houston the next January.  I need to come close to finishing that race in 6 hours.  I'm not looking forward to doing their course, which is 8 loops of 3.1 plus another amount at the start to fill in the difference.  Their cutoff is however long it takes you.

So, there's plenty of time and choices over the next 5 months.
I agree with Mark...that schedule may leave you to worn out to race well.  But everyone is different and there are lots of philosophies out there...all good ones.

I do want to take time to answer your questions but I need to find some of my old training data to give you good answers.  I'll try and do so over the weekend.

I did see your run on Strava this morning.  I know it was slower than you had hoped but "they" say those slow miles are actually quite productive.  Question Don't get discouraged.  You're progressing.
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Post  ounce Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:35 pm

I didn't finish 13 miles, this morning.  I got to 7.22 miles and had to stop.  Just ran out of gas.  I had been maintaining a 142 cadence for the entire run.  Could be cumulative fatigue, but I didn't do a long run on July 25 (2 weeks ago), so that just kinda muddies the water on fatigue.  Nothing hurt, but it was a long 5.5 mile walk back home.

So, I will count this as a step back LR and try 13, next week.
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Post  ounce Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:39 pm

Oddly, yesterday, I didn't have any niggles or troubles.  A couple of times, though, I wasn't tracking straight in a walk.  Nothing that 7 miles of plodding and 6 miles of walking couldn't explain.  This morning, there wasn't any feeling nor hint that I even plodded 7 & walked 6.

This morning, I lifted.  In the short time that I have to workout, I've been working on doing different things with the bicep curl.  I saw a video from the guy that teaches different things to do on different parts of the body.  This is the simple thing of concentric (shortening the muscle) and eccentric (lengthening the muscle).  I used to do just concentric on bicep curls.  Slow up, fast down.  Now, it's slow up, slow down with the same weight that I had mastered concentrically months ago.

At some point, I'll do it on the lat/trap pull down machine, once I master the concentric weight.  I would love to do more machines, but not now.  Under the present weekly mileage, lifting isn't doing too much.  But ask me, once I get to 15 or 16 miles on a long run (I'll probably say 'no.)
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Post  nkrichards Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:47 pm

ounce wrote:

Nancy, I'm curious what long run day distances you've done during the 3 week TAPER MADNESS time period.  I don't think you do a full 3 week taper, but I'm curious how you have been doing your's.  Thoughts on the above are welcomed.

I'm probably going to give you more information than you asked for but I think it's needed to understand the bigger picture.

When I started training for my first marathon in 2019 I downloaded Hal's Novice 3 program.  Even Hal admitted that it was a program designed for experienced runners who for some reason wanted to only run 3 days a week.  One day was an easy day.  One day alternated between MP runs, Tempo runs, and easy runs.  The third day was long runs.  It was a 24 week program.  This is actually pretty close to what you're doing I think.  Long runs were as follows;6,7,5,9,10,8,12,13,5K race,15,16,10K race, 17,18,13,Half, 20,14,20,10K race, 20,12,8,Marathon.  The races make it complicated and a tough plan but it essentially includes 3 20 mile runs.  It schedules a step back week every three weeks.  Taper includes long runs of 12, 8, marathon.

After the first training cycle I got interested in the "run less run faster" method.  I essentially took Hal's Novice 3 and adjusted it for my schedule and gradually added faster stuff.  Eventually I was running one day of speed intervals, one day at MP, and my long runs.  I continued to step back every 3 weeks.  I added more 20 milers (up to 5) and/or snuck in a 22.  I found it difficult to complete the program as scheduled.  It was a tough schedule.

When it came time to train for my 2013 marathon which eventually became my BQ race, I contacted a local coach on the advice of a friend.  I met with her twice.  She tweaked my schedule adding warmup and cooldown miles but essentially leaving the schedule intact.  She encouraged 22 and 24 mile runs.  She also got me started doing strength work on a regular basis.  Her plan called for long runs as follows;7,11,12,9,13,7,10K race,15,16,12,17,18,14,20,taper for triathlon,triathlon,22,15,24,15,Half,12,8,marathon.  It was a tough program and I wasn't able to complete it as planned.  I wasn't able to handle the longer runs.  I completed 20,21,20.  It did enable me to run my BQ.  It also introduced me to easy running miles (warmup and cooldown) and strength.  

As I trained for Boston and continued training after my cardiac event I just kept tweaking my training but stuck with 3 days a week and pretty much a "run less run faster" methodology.  As you know, eventually I got frustrated.  At about that time Desi won Boston using the Hanson Marathon Method, Michele started training with Melissa, and COVID introduced me to the pleasure of easy pace running and running with friends.  That's when I started working with Melissa.  I'm not going to pretend that I can train like Desi or Michele but maybe there is something to this method.

Not sure how much you've read about the Hanson Marathon Method. Luke Humphrey has a couple really good books out and I read them and incorporated some of the ideas into my training before I started working with Melissa.  I didn't buy in completely.  I still only ran 3 days a week and ran 20 mile runs.  I don't need to cover all the reasons for Hanson's method here.  To summarize they believe runners need more mileage than you can accumulate by running 3 or even 4 days a week.  A lot of that mileage is easy miles.  The other "rules" are that the long run should be no more than 25-30% of your weekly mileage and should not last more than 2:30-3:00.  Long runs as a general rule are limited to 16 miles but I'm pretty sure the elites...and maybe even Michele don't adhere entirely to that.  They also admit that it's tough for slower runners to stay within those guidelines so they do compromise some.

So...when I signed on with Melissa I was already running more days per week, more mileage, and more easy miles.  She doesn't have me running the Hanson advanced training plan or even the beginner training plan.  They require 6 days per week with 3 SOS runs.  She limits my running to 5 days a week with only 2 SOS (something of substance) days instead of 3.  My peak mileage week was 47 and I averaged in the low 40s the last 8 weeks of training.  I'm going to list my long runs starting at 14 weeks out as prior to that they were complicated by races.  8,10,9 w/5@MP, 12,12 w/6@MP, 14,13 w/3-2-3@MP,16,12 w/8@MP, 16 w/3@MP, 14 w/10@MP,16,10,marathon.  As you can see...nothing longer than 16 but believe me those long runs with a good portion at MP were tough runs!!  She gives me a short taper.  42.5 miles with a 16 mile long run 3 weeks out.  30 miles with a 10 mile long run 2 weeks out.  Race week is pretty light.

Not sure how much help all that is.  I know we're all different and as such we have different training needs/wants.  So far this seems to be working for me.  I wasn't successful in running my BQ last year so I won't swear by the method yet.  I will say that I wasn't able to complete the training that I had planned when I was trying to do 20 mile long runs and only running 3 days a week.  It just didn't allow me to recover.  Running more miles and more days has actually been easier in some ways...although it does take time.

Sorry...probably more than you wanted to know.  The answer to your taper question is buried in there somewhere.  Question
ounce wrote:I didn't finish 13 miles, this morning.  I got to 7.22 miles and had to stop.  Just ran out of gas.  I had been maintaining a 142 cadence for the entire run.  Could be cumulative fatigue, but I didn't do a long run on July 25 (2 weeks ago), so that just kinda muddies the water on fatigue.  Nothing hurt, but it was a long 5.5 mile walk back home.

So, I will count this as a step back LR and try 13, next week.
We all have tough days.  Probably good that you listened to your body.  Are you fueling well enough before and during your runs.  I've struggled with that during training with similar results.

Good luck next week!
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Post  ounce Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:03 am

Thanks, Nancy.  Yes, the answer is in there somewhere.  I'll parse it out and I appreciate the time it took to type all that.

As far as fueling prior to Monday's flop, I don't believe I changed anything from prior weeks.  But since it wasn't lack of sleep or a change in feeding and I had my Fig Newtons, I was curious if Friday's run of 7 might have been a bit long and/or higher cadence.  Initially, I was thinking it was the week's total of 23 miles.  And it still could be.  It was just odd how sudden it came on.  I hadn't even jacked with the cadence.  Set at 142.  Could be the body is adjusting to the elevation 'gain' because the route east of Memorial Park takes you by a body of water (Buffalo Bayou) and where the elevation isn't flat in Houston, there's a body of water nearby.

Oh, well.  I'll try again on Monday.  I might just plod 2 laps at Memorial Park, which would be 6 miles.  That would pretty much take care of the 3 miles east of Memorial Park that has the elevation change.

-30-

This morning it was 80 degrees with a dew point of 78.  Not bad, compared to 82.  I made the executive decision to breach 150 cadence level and increase it all the way to 151 for a 4 mile run.  The Polar was not awake for the event, so I had no HR data, but including a little dip off the pier, the avg cadence for the run was 150.  The nice thing about those little dips within the last 3/4ths of a mile is that I can tell myself, "you're just about done.  Don't screw it up."  I was concentrating on doing 151 and for the Garmin to record a 150 overall is terribly normal.

Avg pace was 15:32.

Tomorrow shall be lifting.
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Post  ounce Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:55 am

Went and lifted, this morning.  Good times.  I was a little tired, when I got up, but that abated, once I got to the gym.

Regarding my Polar not working on Wednesday, I figured out what the problem was.  The battery is dead.  The battery is replaceable, but I don't have the Torx bit small enough to remove the back.  I know a watch repair place that might can fix it.

Odd story about determining what was wrong with the watch.  I sought out YouTube for help on the diagnosis.  After I determined the battery was dead, I changed the search to 'replace battery on Polar M430."  Got a hit for a 3 minute 18 second video.  Cool.  I saw the guy show how to remove the pins that held the band to the watch, then saw the guy unscrew the 4 screws on the back.  Cool.  2 minutes, 30 seconds had gone by.

He removed the back and you could see the circuit board inside the watch.  NOW to see how to get to the battery and what type it was.

Annnnnnnnd the video ended.  That was it!  Oh, well, figure it out on your own!!

Tomorrow, I think I'll run 6.  Last Friday, it was 7.  Maybe that will help for another attempt at 13.

Oh, I have received rain for the past two days.  1.8" on Tuesday (in 90 minutes) and 0.4" yesterday in an hour.

Thanks.
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Post  nkrichards Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:34 pm

ounce wrote:Went and lifted, this morning.  Good times.  I was a little tired, when I got up, but that abated, once I got to the gym.

Regarding my Polar not working on Wednesday, I figured out what the problem was.  The battery is dead.  The battery is replaceable, but I don't have the Torx bit small enough to remove the back.  I know a watch repair place that might can fix it.

Odd story about determining what was wrong with the watch.  I sought out YouTube for help on the diagnosis.  After I determined the battery was dead, I changed the search to 'replace battery on Polar M430."  Got a hit for a 3 minute 18 second video.  Cool.  I saw the guy show how to remove the pins that held the band to the watch, then saw the guy unscrew the 4 screws on the back.  Cool.  2 minutes, 30 seconds had gone by.

He removed the back and you could see the circuit board inside the watch.  NOW to see how to get to the battery and what type it was.

Annnnnnnnd the video ended.  That was it!  Oh, well, figure it out on your own!!

Tomorrow, I think I'll run 6.  Last Friday, it was 7.  Maybe that will help for another attempt at 13.

Oh, I have received rain for the past two days.  1.8" on Tuesday (in 90 minutes) and 0.4" yesterday in an hour.

Thanks.
Good luck with the battery replacement.  We gave up replacing the batteries in Marty's everyday watches.  The cost of the battery and the hassle finding someone to replace them exceeded the cost of a new watch.  So wasteful and so frustrating!  Hope you can get it figured out.

We could use the rain here if you have extra but not sure I want it to come as quickly as it did there.  It would wash away all our soil!

Enjoy your run tomorrow.
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Post  ounce Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:19 pm

nkrichards wrote:
ounce wrote:Went and lifted, this morning.  Good times.  I was a little tired, when I got up, but that abated, once I got to the gym.

Regarding my Polar not working on Wednesday, I figured out what the problem was.  The battery is dead.  The battery is replaceable, but I don't have the Torx bit small enough to remove the back.  I know a watch repair place that might can fix it.

Odd story about determining what was wrong with the watch.  I sought out YouTube for help on the diagnosis.  After I determined the battery was dead, I changed the search to 'replace battery on Polar M430."  Got a hit for a 3 minute 18 second video.  Cool.  I saw the guy show how to remove the pins that held the band to the watch, then saw the guy unscrew the 4 screws on the back.  Cool.  2 minutes, 30 seconds had gone by.

He removed the back and you could see the circuit board inside the watch.  NOW to see how to get to the battery and what type it was.

Annnnnnnnd the video ended.  That was it!  Oh, well, figure it out on your own!!

Tomorrow, I think I'll run 6.  Last Friday, it was 7.  Maybe that will help for another attempt at 13.

Oh, I have received rain for the past two days.  1.8" on Tuesday (in 90 minutes) and 0.4" yesterday in an hour.

Thanks.
Good luck with the battery replacement.  We gave up replacing the batteries in Marty's everyday watches.  The cost of the battery and the hassle finding someone to replace them exceeded the cost of a new watch.  So wasteful and so frustrating!  Hope you can get it figured out.

We could use the rain here if you have extra but not sure I want it to come as quickly as it did there.  It would wash away all our soil!

Enjoy your run tomorrow.
Turns out the watch place doesn't have the battery to change.  Polar has authorized service centers in the US.  Replacing the battery is $45, plus the cost of shipping to and fro.  So ~$60 and a couple of weeks.  The 2 weeks was what I was trying to shorten to 2 days.  No such luck.

I wish I knew you needed the water, but it wouldn't have mattered.  While it was pouring, you could hear this giant sucking sound that turned out to be the ground absorbing the water. No

I will enjoy my run!  Thanks, Nancy.
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Post  Mark B Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:31 am

Too bad about the Polar battery. Are you going to go without for a couple of weeks or just get something else? It's a shame how the system makes it difficult to not just chuck something and buy something else. Keeps the economy going, I suppose, but still. 

These midweek runs are looking good. But 1.8 inches of rain in 90 minutes sounds positively Biblical. When they had something like that in Death Valley, it stranded more than 1,000 people due to widespread flash floods. I suspect you had standing water on the ground for a bit, but not long.

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Post  ounce Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:15 am

Mark B wrote:Too bad about the Polar battery. Are you going to go without for a couple of weeks or just get something else? It's a shame how the system makes it difficult to not just chuck something and buy something else. Keeps the economy going, I suppose, but still. 

These midweek runs are looking good. But 1.8 inches of rain in 90 minutes sounds positively Biblical. When they had something like that in Death Valley, it stranded more than 1,000 people due to widespread flash floods. I suspect you had standing water on the ground for a bit, but not long.
Yup, I mailed the watch, cable, and HR strap on Friday to some place on Long Island.  Do expect a couple of weeks without it.

Your 1.8" and Biblical brought a chuckle because it reminded me of my & your snow-pocalypse and snow-mageddon comments in the past, where anything greater than a 1/4 inch is mind boggling to me.  So, 1.8" of rain in context to SE Texas doesn't raise an eyebrow, down here.  We have seen an inch in 10 minutes, which DOES raise an eyebrow.  This all goes back to Hurricane Harvey that generated an average of 35-40".  I got 22 inches.  There was one gauge that was monitored by the Flood Control District that measured just over 60", which is a record for a tropical system.  That surpassed a storm in Hawaii many years ago.
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Post  ounce Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:01 am

This morning, it was 82 degrees, clear, and Venus was playing the part of a moon with our moon.

I was looking forward to this run to determine if I was going to do another shorter-than-planned long run or 13 or 14 miles.  Last Friday was a bust, as was last Monday at 7.22 miles.  Having the short-life Garmin watch, I didn't start the official time until I got to Memorial Park running loop.  
I committed a math error.  13 was the target.  But during the run, I figured out that I was on track for 14 miles.  That wasn't so bad as it would put me back on schedule.  BUT, I then figured I would be close to around 14.4-14.5 miles at the end.  Soooooo, could I do 15?  Let's see.  

I had probably 4 miles to ponder the subject.  By the time I hit 10 recorded miles or 13.5 miles total, I was not capable of doing anything past 10.5 miles, which got me 14 miles.  I would have to walk about 3/4ths of a mile.

So, 14 is in the books.  The really nice thing is the cadence.  I set the gnome at 142 spm.  The way the cadence shakes out between the Garmin and the gnome is that 141 would be the cadence the Garmin would record.  Out of the 10 and a half splits recorded, 2 splits were at 142, the other 8 were at 141.  So, no matter how tired I was, my legs were doing 141's, even at the end.

I'm getting better at timing when I need a Fig Newton.  I'm going to have to place a bottle of water during the last 3 miles.  Water is plentiful at the Park, especially when ran counter-clockwise.

One thing I need to figure out is sleeping after a run.  I lay down on the floor to allow the sweat to evaporate.  Then I go and take a shower.  Then I hop in the bed.  Trying to fall asleep after a long run takes longer than at nighttime.  After a couple of tries, I wait until my body is finished sweating before I shower, now.  My HR is already back to normal, but the is not ready to sleep.  It evidently is still hyped up some.  So, as the distances become longer and longer, I think I'll sit in a chair and watch the news, post-shower, until I start yawning or dozing off.

At least now, I know how to plod a 15 mile plod for next week.  Good start to the week!  Thanks for getting this far.

Oh...one more thing.  About mile 2.3, I fell down and landed on my right, upper, forearm.  I have a bump, destined to be a moderate (for me) bruise.  I will stop taking my aspirin and Plavix for 3 days, so the platelets have a better chance at clotting.  Dr. Ounce has spoken cyclops
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Post  ounce Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:44 pm

This boy was so tired, during the day.  I finished things up at 8 p.m. and was in bed at 8:30.  I turned the alarm off and turned to my body clock as to when I would wake up rested...or 6:30 a.m., whichever happens last.  I woke up a few times during the night, then turned over and went back to sleep.  6:20 came around and that was close enough to 6:30.  I could probably have slept some more, but no more than an hour, probably.

10 hours for the night. Approval  No lifting, today.

I woke up with no niggles, which was nice, although later in the morning after sitting about 3 hours, there was some tightness in the upper quad on both legs.  So, I imagine tomorrow when I go for a run that clearing the trash out of the fibers will be the main objective.  I'm more alert today, than yesterday.

My bruise on my right, upper forearm is stable in size, which is good.  I will re-start the aspirin and Plavix on Thursday.  For me, it's the quickest way to stop internal bleeding at the impact site.

I think that's about it.
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Post  ounce Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:59 pm

Regarding the Polar, I got an estimate of $60 for a new HR strap and strap battery, and shipping.  No mention of the watch not working.  So, I wrote them back and asked them to send to me a photo of the watch in its working state and how it was fixed.  I got a reply that basically said the watch and the charging cable were not making a connection, so cleaning the contact points on both did the trick and it charged right up.  Plus, I got a photo of the watch with the time of day.

So, it's on its way back to me.

-30-

Wednesday had me running 4 miles at a cadence of 153, which is the highest since I was running those 1 or 2 mile runs in March.  15:33 pace and I was able to hold that cadence for the run, even though it seemed to me that I wasn't doing a 153 for the whole time.  I was pleased with the performance.

-30-  

Thursday, I went to the gym.  Only visit for the week, so instead of 30-35 minutes, I was there 45 minutes.  Lifting for 30-35 minutes 2x/week seems to not be a problem with the running 3x/week.  It's true that I didn't lift on Tuesday, after the 14 on Monday.  All I can say is that sleep trumps everything, most of the time.  Truly does.  Buuuuuut, doing long runs in the upper teens and low 20s, as the year runs along, might make me not lift on Tuesdays.

-30-

Friday, I had an idea to try.  Friday runs have been 'sorta long runs' where I'll run 6 or 7 at a mid-140s cadence.  I wondered if the sorta long run was keeping my body from fully re-charging by Monday's long run.

This past Monday's long run was at 142 cadence and I was holding that throughout the whole run, which for me means that I can advance the cadence.  Soooo, I ran Friday's 5 mile run at a 143 cadence.  I could've done it at 145 or 146, but I wanted to run it at the cadence for the coming long run to prep the mind and legs for 143 and maybe not tax the legs as much.

Guess I'll find out.

Finally, my right upper forearm hematoma is nearly gone.  I re-started the blood thinners on Thursday morning.  So, that's a therapy to follow.

That's all for me, y'all.  Have a good Sunday.
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Post  nkrichards Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:37 pm

ounce wrote:Regarding the Polar, I got an estimate of $60 for a new HR strap and strap battery, and shipping.  No mention of the watch not working.  So, I wrote them back and asked them to send to me a photo of the watch in its working state and how it was fixed.  I got a reply that basically said the watch and the charging cable were not making a connection, so cleaning the contact points on both did the trick and it charged right up.  Plus, I got a photo of the watch with the time of day.

So, it's on its way back to me.

-30-

Wednesday had me running 4 miles at a cadence of 153, which is the highest since I was running those 1 or 2 mile runs in March.  15:33 pace and I was able to hold that cadence for the run, even though it seemed to me that I wasn't doing a 153 for the whole time.  I was pleased with the performance.

-30-  

Thursday, I went to the gym.  Only visit for the week, so instead of 30-35 minutes, I was there 45 minutes.  Lifting for 30-35 minutes 2x/week seems to not be a problem with the running 3x/week.  It's true that I didn't lift on Tuesday, after the 14 on Monday.  All I can say is that sleep trumps everything, most of the time.  Truly does.  Buuuuuut, doing long runs in the upper teens and low 20s, as the year runs along, might make me not lift on Tuesdays.

-30-

Friday, I had an idea to try.  Friday runs have been 'sorta long runs' where I'll run 6 or 7 at a mid-140s cadence.  I wondered if the sorta long run was keeping my body from fully re-charging by Monday's long run.

This past Monday's long run was at 142 cadence and I was holding that throughout the whole run, which for me means that I can advance the cadence.  Soooo, I ran Friday's 5 mile run at a 143 cadence.  I could've done it at 145 or 146, but I wanted to run it at the cadence for the coming long run to prep the mind and legs for 143 and maybe not tax the legs as much.

Guess I'll find out.

Finally, my right upper forearm hematoma is nearly gone.  I re-started the blood thinners on Thursday morning.  So, that's a therapy to follow.

That's all for me, y'all.  Have a good Sunday.
Looks like it was a good decision to send the watch in for repair rather than just replacing it.

I saw your run on Strava this morning.  I can't disagree that maybe longer long runs every other week might work well for you.  Your cadence seems to be progressing/holding up pretty well especially on your shorter runs where you concentrate on cadence.  It's really tough to know how much/when to push yourself and when to listen to your body and rest.  You seem to be struggling between wanting to push a bit more but realizing that your body just isn't cooperating fully yet.  It's good to see you're flexible with training goals and also that you're still working at it!

Glad the forearm bruise didn't get to bad.  Doesn't sound like it changed much of our training routine...just required you to drop the blood thinners for a few days.

Be careful out there...the cooler weather has to arrive some day.
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Post  ounce Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:35 pm

I had to try something different for January Houston.  Overweight and pretty much starting training from zero in March.  Increasing the running through hot, mornings in the Summer.  Truly unconventional or not used by Hal.  But I had to get up to mid-teens early, pace be damned, by relying on the idea that stamina makes a faster pace possible, eventually.  

I did almost accomplish being in the mid-teens, last week at 14.  Not sure if, next Monday, I will do 11, 13, or 15 because I won't run the week of Labor Day.  Yeah, 15 maybe.  13 would be a respectful distance.  A sort of taper.  From September 12 (Monday after Labor Day) to Dallas is 12 weeks (the marathon to see how close to a 6 hour marathon I can do).  Houston is another 6 weeks.  I have to decide by early December if I'm doing the half or full.

I am in a better position to continue advancing the LR mileage, right now, than I thought I would be back in April.  It wouldn't have happened if I didn't throw the training manual out the window in favor of a clean sheet of paper.  Lots and lots of flies.

Ice hockey is not one of those sports that is emulated, down here.  However, I've divided my training into 3 periods (like a hockey game).  Labor Day is the end of the 1st period.  Dallas is the end of the 2nd period.  Houston, the 3rd.

Tomorrow, I'll run 5 or 6.

Oh, that huge rain up in Dallas and Fort Worth?  That's unheard of, up there.  Reminds me of some of the rains we have down here.  Hopefully, the Metroplex will now understand what Houston goes through on a flooding rain.  The inches they got that one day was just one day.  When Hurricane Harvey hit today, 5 years ago, Houston received that one day's number of inches in each of the 4 days Harvey was around.

One last passing thought.  Three years ago today, I was discharged from the hospital.  I had thought that I was at around mile 10-12 during training for the 2020 Houston, when the MI occurred.  I was wrong.  From the Term Limits page on August 12, 2019 with a symptom of what was to happen 8 days later:

7 miles, 1:47:38, 15:22 pace, 149 avg cadence, 0.70 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 15:19, 2nd half pace 15:25
1.  15:12, 156 spm, 68 sl
2.  15:28, 146 spm, 71 sl
3.  15:19, 146 spm, 72 sl
4.  15:22, 147 spm, 71 sl
5.  16:00, 146 spm, 69 sl
6.  15:16, 149 spm, 71 sl
7.  14:59, 151 spm, 71 sl


It was at that point of the warm air hitting me in the face, just outside the door, that I felt like I wouldn't be able to maintain the 163 cadence.  But I tried for a little while.  Then I just let the legs do as they wished, since the idea is to run a whole 7.

I stopped at 1/3rd of a mile to assess why the body wasn't doing too good.  Then, I carried on and ran.  The legs were compliant, as long as let them do their thing.  This was the right choice because I never seriously thought about stopping, once I got past mile 2.  I was disappointed about not going faster, but the goal of 7 was the priority.
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Post  ounce Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:34 pm

I didn't lift, yesterday.  Too tired.  This morning, it was 79 degrees.  Radar was showing a patch of rain headed towards me, but if I hurried to get dressed, I could beat it.  The plan was 5, but the potential rain knocked it back to 4.  But during mile 4 and headed back home, I looked up at the sky to the west and noticed the altitude of the clouds were not part of the impending rain on radar.  Rain clouds are lower.  So maybe, just maybe, I could run 5.  I quickly figured out a mile 5 route and executed it.

I had set the gnome at 154 (Monday's LR was 143).

I finished the 5 at a 14:44 pace at a cadence of 154 (4-155's and a 153).  Average HR was 130, with the last 2 miles at 136.  My heart was out of the hammock!  So nice to see that.

The legs were 95% of normal, which was higher than usual.  A good run was had by me.  Thanks for your time.
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Post  ounce Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:15 pm

Back on August 5, which was a Friday run of 7 miles, my cadence was 143.  On this past Monday, the 22nd, the plodding part of my run was done at 143 for many miles.  So, there is progress on cadence.  Since I maintained a 155 cadence on my 5 mile run on Wednesday, I think it's time to bump up the cadence for tomorrow's run of 7.

A 162 or better cadence is my target cadence at MP of around 12:30-13:00. Shocked  Now don't THAT pace seem quite the improvement from today's 17 and all in 17 weeks!  And it'll be Thanksgiving, if I'm doing REALLY well in 12 weeks to where I think that I can run a 6 hour marathon.  If I can do that, then the weeks to mid-January are fine tuning.  But I'm not doing a lot of strategic thinking during the weeks.  It's all tactical.  That's what all of these 'flies' are.  Pivoting and attacking.

Tomorrow's run of 7 or 8 miles will be somewhere in the 150's because the sorta long run has to be close to the short run, when I'm not trying a new fly.

-30-

Lifted, today.  Did fine.  Wasn't tired.  That's all.
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Post  nkrichards Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:22 pm

Congrats on making it to and through your 3 year heart attack anniversary.  They say that every year you put between your cardiac event and today reduces your risk of a second event.  And apparently 5 years is a magic number.  You're over half way there!!

You've got a plan and you're flexible as needed so you're in a good place.  I think that when you/we/runners get into trouble it's when we don't have a plan or when we have a plan but aren't willing to be flexible when it isn't working.  Tweaking and experimenting are very appropriate.

I liked what I saw on your Strava run this morning.  The cadence graph was a bit odd but once it started working you held on pretty well.  No prolonged swimming.  Your mileage and cadence are both increasing at a modest (appropriate) rate.  I see progress.  And the cooler weather will help.

Glad to hear lifting went well and that you're still feeling well enough to lift even with the increased mileage.  That's probably good for you and also a good gauge to help you recognize if you're putting in to many miles.  If you can run and still lift comfortably a couple times a week you're golden.

Have a great weekend.  I'll be watching for that next run on Strava.  Running
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Post  ounce Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:13 pm

nkrichards wrote:Congrats on making it to and through your 3 year heart attack anniversary.  They say that every year you put between your cardiac event and today reduces your risk of a second event.  And apparently 5 years is a magic number.  You're over half way there!!

You've got a plan and you're flexible as needed so you're in a good place.  I think that when you/we/runners get into trouble it's when we don't have a plan or when we have a plan but aren't willing to be flexible when it isn't working.  Tweaking and experimenting are very appropriate.

I liked what I saw on your Strava run this morning.  The cadence graph was a bit odd but once it started working you held on pretty well.  No prolonged swimming.  Your mileage and cadence are both increasing at a modest (appropriate) rate.  I see progress.  And the cooler weather will help.

Glad to hear lifting went well and that you're still feeling well enough to lift even with the increased mileage.  That's probably good for you and also a good gauge to help you recognize if you're putting in to many miles.  If you can run and still lift comfortably a couple times a week you're golden.

Have a great weekend.  I'll be watching for that next run on Strava.  Running
I'm afraid (metaphorically) I'm not at the same altitude of analysis that you are, Nancy.  Maybe I'll get there.  Prior to 'there,' I work on the right now, making changes, assessing me right now for the goal in January, a 6 hour official finish.

Friday's run was not what I was looking for.  I wanted something similar to Wednesday's run of a 155 cadence and a 14-ish pace.  I set the gnome at 153 and maintained that for the first 5 miles of the 8, but I was running in the 16's.  I don't know if it was lifting on Thursday or if the energy bucket for the week did not allow for a Wednesday-style run on a Friday.

For miles 6-8, the cadence cratered because the gnome suddenly stopped beeping loud enough for me to hear.  I ran next to a light pole and I popped the gnome against the pole.  That stopped it altogether.  As a result, my cadence dropped into the 130's.  I ordered another one on Friday.  I did tinker with the gnome some on Friday.  Dried the battery.  Blew into the battery-less cavity.  Stuck the battery back in.  Nothing.  Guess tomorrow's run won't be any kind of good without the gnome to pace my tootsies.

This morning, I pulled the gnome out of the drawer JUST to see if it would work.  Well, it works!  I think I figured out why.  On Friday during the run, I stopped at one of the water fountains at Memorial Park.  This water stop also has a shower head to rinse yourself, of which I took advantage.  I forgot to take the gnome off the neck of my shirt because it doesn't like water.  So, that's why the beep was suppressed and I gave it a concussion on the pole.

I had the same situation a few years ago, as well.  

Tomorrow morning, I'll do a step back long run of 10 or 11 miles.  10 seems reasonable and 11 is, well, reasonable + 1.  I've set the gnome at 146.  Last Monday, it was 143.  

Nighty night.  Thanks, Nancy.
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Post  ounce Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:17 pm

This morning, it was 80 degrees with a dew point of 78.  Radar was showing some rain coming off the Gulf.  It was one, rather broad, cell but it didn't appear to track over me during the run.  I aimed for 11 miles at 147 cadence.  I won't be running on Labor Day, so I wanted to bump the cadence up from 143.  Plus, 147 is a cadence I need to make happen.  I packed 4 Fig Newtons and a pint of water.  The water gets placed at 2 miles to go, which is roughly 1-1/2 from the last water fountain at Memorial Park.  The Garmin watch can't go the whole distance, so I started it at mile 3.

Once up at Memorial Park (mile 3.5), a strange thing happened.  A steady, cool breeze came from the south.  A.  cool.  breeze.  Then some mist and a light shower.  That lasted about 3 miles and was very, very welcome.  It pretty much took all of the heat out of the air and I was spending less effort cooling the body.  One thing I didn't know until I looked at the data from the Garmin.  My cadence for miles 3-7 was 153 spm.  The gnome was set at 147, after all.  Maybe it was the cool air.  The time splits were wacky, compared to the Polar.

Both watches had an average cadence of 146. All 11 miles for the Polar and 8 for the Garmin.  That is wonderful.  Really great. 
Then there were the splits.  Polar had 1 split as 16:04, the other 10 were all various high 15's.  Garmin had one sub-16 split.  Even having a split of 5 sub 16 and 6 above 15 would be a good run, these days.

Average HR was 123 bpm.  Never got above 125 until the last two splits of 131 and 138, respectively.

Overall, I am super pleased with this run.  For me, when I can run a whole distance at the cadence on the gnome (+/- 1), that means I'm ready to advance the cadence.  So, 11 was the proper distance for today. 12 would have broken the all 146 cadence, but that would've been okay.

This week is the end of period 1.  I think I've done well getting up to 14 miles during the Summer.  Back in late April, 5 miles was the long run.  I'll put that run's summary at the bottom.

Period 2 is 11 weeks beginning September 12 and ending Thanksgiving.  This period should be faster and longer.  Has to be both, if I can believe I can finish Houston in 6 hours.  I just have to watch what I'm doing and catch the right flies.

Thanks for stopping by.

5.01 miles, 1:14:12, 14:49 pace, 127 avg bpm, 148 avg spm.  April 26.
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Post  nkrichards Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:03 am


 Overall, I am super pleased with this run.  For me, when I can run a whole distance at the cadence on the gnome (+/- 1), that means I'm ready to advance the cadence.  So, 11 was the proper distance for today. 12 would have broken the all 146 cadence, but that would've been okay.


This week is the end of period 1.  I think I've done well getting up to 14 miles during the Summer.  Back in late April, 5 miles was the long run.



I couldn't agree more.  Glad you enjoyed a cooler run.  Anxious to see how period 2 goes.  Enjoy your holiday break and I'll be watching for your Strava runs.
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Post  ounce Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:46 pm

Period 2 should have a make or break theme song.  I'll have to think about it.

This week and next will be normal Wednesday and Friday runs with lifting on TTh.

I did wake up this morning with the intent of lifting, if the body was accommodating.  It was because I wasn't stiff, draggy, nor wanting to go back to sleep.  I tweaked my routing, there, to include the incline bench press (one of the 3 laying bench press machines).  Last week, when I lifted all three versions (flat, incline, and decline), I noticed the incline bench press was not able to lift the same reps as the other two.  So, today, I did some remedial lifting.  The incline works the Clavicular Head of the Pectoralis Major.  I can certainly confirm the incline press works that muscle.

The other two benches I can do 3 sets of 6 at 90 pounds.  The incline is 3 wobbly sets of 4 at 90.  Below is your picture aid of two of the three muscles.

Training with Flies - Page 2 Pectoralis-major-2
Tomorrow is 5 or 6 at a 'high' cadence.  Something around 157, maybe even testing 160.  Certainly a hammock emptying number.  That coupled with lifting today ought to be awfully interesting as to energy stores.

Thanks, Nancy.
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