Felt a Hundred Different Demons

Jeff F wrote:Martin, great blog.

I know you will be successful at the ultra distances, as I believe ultras are more about mental toughness than anything else and you definitely have that. While I am not an expert, I did complete my first 50 miler last month. One difference between marathons and ultras is that most ultra runners focus more on the long runs on the weekends, and primarily doing the back to back long runs. You will also find it important to train on similar terrain as you are going to run for the ultra, you already have the road training, so you will need to begin incorporating more trails and hills into your training program. The last and probably most important, is that for ultras at the 50+ miles distances, fueling and hydration are critical. Do a google search and you will find a lot of advice on this. For what it is worth for my 50 miler; I drank only water with electrolyte tablets, took a gel about every 45 minutes, and ate some real food (pretzels, trail mix, cookies) as much as my stomach would handle. I lucked out and had no hydration/fueling issues for my first 50 miler, my stomach actually felt better than I do after most marathons. Sometimes we are lucky, as I have read other ultra runners reports, each ultra is a different experience so you need to be flexible and be able to adjust to what is working for that ultra.

Just my 2 cents.

Looking forward to following your blog. I have heard good things about JFK and thought about registering, but there is a unique marathon down in Tennesee that same weekend I am hoping to run.

Jeff F wrote:Check out the pictures from the Hardrock 100. I could see you doing this some day.

http://www.klaseklof.com/runs/HR06/06.HTML

It only has about 67,000' of elevation change.

Jeff thanks so much for your in put and experience on running a 50 miler all the personal experiences and information I can get from others will be of a huge help and benefit to me.

As for the Hardrock 100 that is on the to do list along with many other great races. I love the pictures and speaking of the Hardrock this years race starts tomorrow morning!

you are one of the reasons why if I feel like I want to quit running, I don't. Proof that if you want something badly enough and are willing to work for it, we can achieve more than we think. If you keep your head down and get after it I would like to think the sky is the limit for ultras as well. I look forward to reading your endeavors!

OK, all this JFK50 talk is making me worry about how my #1 pick is going to PR in Chicago! Come on Schuey, let's focus here man!

You certainly do have an interesting tale to tell! I don't think you'll need a new nickname for ultras, I think "The Bull" will apply just as much if not even more for those.

Hi Schuey! Best of luck on the 50 mile training! I think that after a certain number of miles, which is probably a little different for each of us, it becomes more mental than it does physical. If you can run 26.2, no reason to doubt that you can also run 50, and do it just as well. I've always admired your positive attitude, which is so important for long-distance running. Best of luck with the training!

Schuey wrote:I thought I was done with going through hell, I have decided to test the fires again and give it my best shot!

Awesome, dude!

Matt W wrote:

Schuey wrote: As for the nickname ..., will have to keep the Bull for the roads and come up with something new for the trails!

If you were the Bear on the trails you'd have both markets covered.

Da Bear ... I like!

Chris M wrote:Definitely you'll be staying with us for that whole weekend. I've wanted to crew for Kevin when he has run it but had a conflict with a girls soccer tournament I coach. We'll see if it is a conflict again. If not, I'm 100% out there as part of the crew! But no matter, your room in Vienna is reserved for you and the family.

You're 100% 'out there' anyway. It's a good idea for the Schueys to put up at your place, because it then becomes race-central for pre- and post-race festivities. So, you're an integral part of the crew whether or not you can make it out to Boonsboro on race day. Actual crew duties will likely be light (shoe change, time check, moral support, etc.) since the JFK50 is one of the better supported ultras. But if Da Bear is feeling good at Antietam and thinks he can nail a good time, pacing could be helpful. I'm sure we'll be ready to handle just about any contingency. Let's see how the soccer tourney schedule lines up and take it from there.

John Kilpatrick wrote:you are one of the reasons why if I feel like I want to quit running, I don't. Proof that if you want something badly enough and are willing to work for it, we can achieve more than we think. If you keep your head down and get after it I would like to think the sky is the limit for ultras as well. I look forward to reading your endeavors!

Thanks so much for those kind words John. I have always believed in giving it a 100% and if I do that the end results will always be positive not matter.

mul21 wrote:OK, all this JFK50 talk is making me worry about how my #1 pick is going to PR in Chicago! Come on Schuey, let's focus here man!

You certainly do have an interesting tale to tell! I don't think you'll need a new nickname for ultras, I think "The Bull" will apply just as much if not even more for those.

Jim Jim Jim don't you worry the Bull won't leave you hanging out to dry. Yes the JFK is a big focus for me but my whole plan and focus as been on racing Chicago. The only way I will not race Chicago is if I don't feel my training goes as well as I like. I'm really looking at stepping it up when I get home from Florida.

The only thing that will be changing in my training is doing more long runs and do some of them back to back which by the way I had done before for Boston 2010. I also believe I will have enough time to recovery from Chicago to do what I want to achieve at JFK. So don't start worrying just yet. I just have to get over this little last bit of PS and I think I should be fine.

You do know I could always help pace Chris to a huge PR in Chicago which would bring in a lot of points. It's not like I haven't scored a lot of points for us already.

Schuey wrote:
You do know I could always help pace Chris to a huge PR in Chicago which would bring in a lot of points. It's not like I haven't scored a lot of points for us already.

The bug has really taken hold, and this is proof. The Bull officially is - at least temporarily - beyond marathon status.

This is going to be awesome! I agree, you're an inspiration.

You always see the positive and I remember the big PR and your excitement. Very proud of you for turning your life around and finding love. Sweet story. Sounds familiar

Hugs to you and Lisa!

Schuey, I'm so glad you finally started up a new blog, and with the blink of an eye, it's already on page 2...no surprise there.
I loved the recap of your marathon history. I knew you had a foot stress fracture, but two? I don't feel quite so bad after reading that!
Your story is inspirational for all of us, as is the support you give so freely.
I'm excited to follow your ultra training, and I have no doubt that you'll have the same success as this distance as you have in the "shorter" distances.

Da Bull (or is it now Da Bear?) going after a big goal again...am I surprised? Nope, not at all...I know you will give it 110% as you always do. I can't wait to see what happens on this journey.

When are you coming up to run the Ice Age Trail??

I blame you for putting the idea back in my head to run a 50 miler...and I have at least one friend who is crazy enough to train with me for it!

I hope you're having a good time with your family in FL and enjoy some cooler temps when you're back in IL.

I'm so excited a new blog from Schuey. Your story inspires me and thanks so much for all your help. It just shows that even a "new" runner can help an "old dog" like me.

I hope that we can meet up soon (and Lisa too of course). I'm sure that once I'm in Cleveland again, I'll come over to run a few Chicago races like I did when I lived there in the mid 2000s. I even ran an 8K masters PR at the Shamrock Shuffle in 2005.

Looking forward to following along on your JFK adventure. I wish I lived a bit closer to come up and help Chris with the crew duties.

Thanks everyone for your post. I will respond later, right now we are at a tiki hut drinking bloody mary's.
Vacation has been great a lot of drink and a little running! Will get back into the routine when we get home! Just trying to put some miles in to stay happy.
Going fishing out on the gulf tomorrow.

Julie wrote:I blame you for putting the idea back in my head to run a 50 miler...

Don't worry Martin... your plans have no such similar effect on me!

Schuey wrote:Thanks everyone for your post. I will respond later, right now we are at a tiki hut drinking bloody mary's.
Vacation has been great a lot of drink and a little running! Will get back into the routine when we get home! Just trying to put some miles in to stay happy.
Going fishing out on the gulf tomorrow.

Enjoy!

Natalie Wolf wrote:

Julie wrote:I blame you for putting the idea back in my head to run a 50 miler...

Don't worry Martin... your plans have no such similar effect on me!

Darn I thought for sure if I did this you would follow along Natalie! I guess I will have to come up with something else now

Two pages of entries and not a single run posted? Well, I did see you did quite well in Florida in a race. Looking forward to reading about this journey. Since you already train at such a high level, I am not sure what more you need to do for the 50 miler. I am guessing less speed work and some longer runs? The problem is you already do back to back 20s, and 26 mile workouts. Have you considered a target pace, and looked at results in the past JFK races to see where you might finish?

Schuey wrote:

Natalie Wolf wrote:

Julie wrote:I blame you for putting the idea back in my head to run a 50 miler...

Don't worry Martin... your plans have no such similar effect on me!

Darn I thought for sure if I did this you would follow along Natalie! I guess I will have to come up with something else now

Well, your vacation looked like a good idea. I might like to do that!

ChasMcG wrote:This is going to be awesome! I agree, you're an inspiration.

You always see the positive and I remember the big PR and your excitement. Very proud of you for turning your life around and finding love. Sweet story. Sounds familiar

Hugs to you and Lisa!

Thanks Chas and yes the Fall October day was a lot of fun, to bad Tim didn't feel all that great. The pizza sure was good later on! I'm proud of myself for turning it around but mad at myself for allowing myself to get that way. It's all good thought because if I didn't go down that path I won't be who I am today and I'm dam glad to have Lisa in my life. She is such a kind, caring and loving person. I don't know if people really know how awesome and giving she really is.

Seth Harrison wrote:Schuey, I'm so glad you finally started up a new blog, and with the blink of an eye, it's already on page 2...no surprise there.
I loved the recap of your marathon history. I knew you had a foot stress fracture, but two? I don't feel quite so bad after reading that!
Your story is inspirational for all of us, as is the support you give so freely.
I'm excited to follow your ultra training, and I have no doubt that you'll have the same success as this distance as you have in the "shorter" distances.

Yep Seth I had two stress fractures that year not fun buddy! When I ran Boston the one in my right foot was still bugging me just like you. I look forward to the doing the Ultras but also have to remember that it is going to be a new learning curve. When I say that I mean more of a learning curve in how to run and race them. It is a different deal running 50 miles compared to 26.2 and then going from 50 to 100 miles. So it will be like starting over as far as running the races. As for training there will be some changes but not all that many just some tweaks here and there.

Joel H wrote:Da Bull (or is it now Da Bear?) going after a big goal again...am I surprised? Nope, not at all...I know you will give it 110% as you always do. I can't wait to see what happens on this journey.

Thanks Joel, you know me always looking for something new to challenge myself. I'm still going to race marathons but I feel that it is time to mix it up some and fine something new to do and again challenge myself. Sure I could do shorter distance races but I did that when I ran track in H.S.. There is something about the longer distances that have caught my eye. And well I want to see if I have the right stuff to do it.

Nick Morris wrote:When are you coming up to run the Ice Age Trail??

Looking to come up there soon Nick. I will get in touch with you at least a week ahead of time before we come up. Have to still do some reach search and looking into camping. It will be like a little journey bringing our dog or maybe putting her in boarding for a weekend. I would like to camp and be able to run on the trail for two days.

Julie wrote:I blame you for putting the idea back in my head to run a 50 miler...and I have at least one friend who is crazy enough to train with me for it!

I hope you're having a good time with your family in FL and enjoy some cooler temps when you're back in IL.

Hey don't blame me! If you are thinking of doing a 50 miler that tells me you are as nuts as me! It's good to have some one to train with, the one thing I like about moving to do some ultras it gives me a chance to run more with Lisa.

We had an awesome time in FL maybe to much fun. Paying the price this week with the runs!!

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I'm so excited a new blog from Schuey. Your story inspires me and thanks so much for all your help. It just shows that even a "new" runner can help an "old dog" like me.

I hope that we can meet up soon (and Lisa too of course). I'm sure that once I'm in Cleveland again, I'll come over to run a few Chicago races like I did when I lived there in the mid 2000s. I even ran an 8K masters PR at the Shamrock Shuffle in 2005.

Looking forward to following along on your JFK adventure. I wish I lived a bit closer to come up and help Chris with the crew duties.

Thanks Michele I'm glad you are excited, let's hope now I can keep the blog as excited as you and others are about it. It would be great to see you at some Chicago races once your back in the Midwest.

I wish you lived closer also it would be great to have you as part of the crew also. I'm so flattered by all the help I'm getting for this race. Kevin, Chris, Lisa and then you offering your help if you could do it. Thanks a lot the thought means a lot to me!

JohnP wrote:Two pages of entries and not a single run posted? Well, I did see you did quite well in Florida in a race. Looking forward to reading about this journey. Since you already train at such a high level, I am not sure what more you need to do for the 50 miler. I am guessing less speed work and some longer runs? The problem is you already do back to back 20s, and 26 mile workouts. Have you considered a target pace, and looked at results in the past JFK races to see where you might finish?

Well John I will make sure to get around to posting some runs from this past week. I did have some good runs when down in FL but more time was spend on being on vacation. To be honest even with the running I did do down there, I am paying the price this week. I'm having a good week but I just don't have any zip in my legs and I feel off. I'm sure I shouldn't be to hard on myself running 7:17 to 7:25 paces in this heat, humidity and dew point is nothing to shake my head at. I guess I was just expecting more out of myself this past week. Just have to have patiences and it will all come together.

As for your question about training, I never really did a lot of speed work when training for the marathon but I'm pretty sure I you won't find me doing any 400m or 800m intervals this training cycle. Although I will most likely have some of those intervals thrown into my longer fartlek runs. I do plan on still doing my tempo runs again this training cycle. For the most part training for the 50 miler is a lot like training for a marathon. The biggest change would be doing the back to back long runs, which as you have pointed out I have done that before. the only thing here is that I would be doing that more then one time during this cycle.

It's funny that you ask if I have picked a target pace or looked up results from past JFK races. I'm still not sure on what pace I will be targeting yet. I think a lot will depend on what I decide to do at Chicago this year, another words it depends on if I race Chicago or use it as a training run. As for results yes I have looked at them and for the most part I don't think I have a chance to win it this year. Winning times seem to be sub 6 hours and I know I'm not ready for that yet. I might have a shot at finishing in the Top 10. The last two years 10th place finisher has been around 6:29 (7:46-7:49 pace). The two years before then 10th place was around 6:40 (7:59-8:00 pace). As for my age group 40-49 it depends on the year times have been from 6:06 to 6:45 ( 7:21-8:06 pace) So it really depends on who shows up on what time will place me you in the top ten or when an age group.

Now don't get me wrong I think it would be great to go for a AG win or even place in the top 10. When I look at those paces one can say "hey I can do that" but I have to remind myself this is over 50 miles not 20 or 30 miles. There is a big big difference there, plus I'm not sure how my body is going to react to running this distance. Like I said earlier I have a lot to learn about running a 50 miler. This is a whole new ballgame but I'm looking forward to learning about it and learning to come up with a strategy that will work for me. Again I look at doing this as running my first marathon. I guess you could say my main goal right now is to put in the training and keep an open mind on race day and let whatever happens happen. I would love to put up a great time but at the same time I want to get one under my belt and get some experience in doing these races and I just want to finish. I also look forward to soaking up as much knowledge from Kevin and putting that in my bank for future races.

Now if I ended up liking this as much as I think I will, I believe the sky is the limit for me and that I have a great chance of doing some great things at the Ultra distances. At the same time it won't be easy there are some stud runners doing these events. So nothing is a given and yes I will say it again I want a shoot at being a top dog in the Ultra world. At the same time again I understand that there are some amazing runners out there, so my approach will be the same at the Ultra distance as it was at the marathon distance. And that is to give it 100% in my training and then come race day give it 120% and let the cards fall were they may. If I do this no matter what the clock says I will be happy with my performance. Again I'm doing this stuff because I want to push myself and I want enjoy myself doing it. If you can't have fun doing it then it is not worth doing!

I'm not blaming you, you just bring something up I've thought about in the past and remind me that maybe it should go back on my goal list in the near future.

Have you run other ultras before? I tried telling myself a 50 miler is just 5 10 milers but that wasn't as comforting as it sounded since I know how tired I am after many 20s.

I'm looking forward to reading about your training and know you will do great in your 50 miler! Running with your wife is always a plus, my husband and I ran together quite a bit till I got pregnant and it got colder outside and he kind of quit running. Now he stays home and watches our daughter while I run...not like having kids means one parent can't run, though. Just how it works for us right now.

I wouldn't be too upset about paces ranging from 7:17 to 7:25. Especially coming off of vacation and the humid summer that we have been having so far. Then again, those paces are faster than mine. So, of course I would take them...

Welcome back to your blog...I hope that you had a great relaxing vacation.

I can't wait to see where your ultra training takes you - I think you would have a pretty big support team if you ever need one!