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Sliding toward my goals...

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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Sat May 09, 2020 1:51 pm

Cadence discussion was/is interesting as that is what happens when I ride - higher cadence, I go faster, lower (more natural) cadence slower.

However, when I run, my cadence is pretty steady at all paces.  Who knows - just probably proves that I've run for 40+ yrs.
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Post  nkrichards Mon May 11, 2020 9:28 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Cadence discussion was/is interesting as that is what happens when I ride - higher cadence, I go faster, lower (more natural) cadence slower.

However, when I run, my cadence is pretty steady at all paces.  Who knows - just probably proves that I've run for 40+ yrs.
It is interesting but I certainly don't understand it all.  It does make sense that your running cadence is high as you started running...faster...at a young age.  Who knows.

***
Wednesday - 10 Rounds was a boxing day.  Took the day off from running.

Thursday - 10 Rounds Upper body lifting day.  Decided to try and add some distance.
  
7 miles @ 11:45 HR 149/159 Cadence 157 Stride .88
11:26 HR 145 Cad 160 Stride .88
11:43 HR 146 Cad 159 Stride .87
11:50 HR 150 Cad 156 Stride .87
11:45 HR 150 Cad 155 Stride .88
11:55 HR 150 Cad 155 Stride .87
11:45 HR 150 Cad 155 Stride .88
11:46 HR 151 Cad 156 Stride .88

Not a fast or high cadence run but it was consistent.

Friday - 10 Rounds boxing day. 
MADras Runners challenge route with Janice.  3.05 miles @ 11:19 HR 140 Cadence 158
Bike 15.47 miles.  My shift cable broke so I had to limp home.  Can't get my bike in for repairs until the 28th.  Crying or Very sad

Saturday - Family stuff all day

Sunday - Planned on an easy effort 4 or 5 but I ran short of time. So...

3 miles @ 9:51 HR 150/171 Cadence 164 Stride .99
10:18 HR 138 Cad 163 Stride .96
  9:54 HR 152 Cad 165 Stride .99
  9:25 HR 161 Cad 166 Stride 1.03

Well that was fun.   Wink  Maybe not smart but it was fun.

Monday - 10 Rounds boxing day.  5 miles with no specific goals other than mileage and time on my feet.

5 miles @ 11:00 HR 147/160 Cadence 160 Stride .91
11:00 HR 138 Cad 160 Stride .91
11:32 HR 147 Cad 159 Stride .87
11:01 HR 149 Cad 159 Stride .92
10:45 HR 152 Cad 161 Stride .93
10:34 HR 152 Cad 162 Stride .94


It was a good fun week.  I ran more than 20 miles for the first time in weeks.  Also ran a faster 3 miler than I've been able to do recently.  

I had fun this week.  Isn't that the goal....
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Post  ounce Mon May 11, 2020 9:58 pm

Yeah, I'd say you had 3 very fine runs.  Looks like Cruise Control Carolyn is the Commander, right now.  Or maybe Goldilocks...not too fast, not too slow, but juuuuuuuuust right.

Gratz on your 20 miles for the week!  Well done!!
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Post  nkrichards Tue May 12, 2020 10:29 pm

ounce wrote:Yeah, I'd say you had 3 very fine runs.  Looks like Cruise Control Carolyn is the Commander, right now.  Or maybe Goldilocks...not too fast, not too slow, but juuuuuuuuust right.

Gratz on your 20 miles for the week!  Well done!!
Ride
Thanks Doug.  I'm feeling much more positive about my running.

***
So as much as I'm enjoying running a bit faster and farther, my body was telling me that I needed to take it easy today.

4:00 alarm signaled that the coffee was ready and 10 Rounds Upper Body Lift was waiting for us.  We both upped our weights a bit today and were extremely tired by the end of the workout.  We were both surprised that by noon we had recovered and weren't at all sore.  Will be interesting to see how we feel in the morning.  Shocked

I headed out for my run after breakfast.  I checked the locks on the closet and made sure that Fast Freddie and Cruise Control Carolyn were both securely locked away.  I wanted Easy Effort Eddie to accompany me on this run.  I'm sure you know that I have a tendency to start a bit to fast, settle down during the middle of my runs, and finish way to fast.  It took me a long time to learn to save something for the finish and a fast finish is ingrained in my running now.  So with an easy effort the priority off I went.

5 miles @ 11:46 HR 139/150 Cadence 157 Stride .87
11:21 HR 136 Cad 157 Stride .90
11:46 HR 136 Cad 158 Stride .87
11:40 HR 136 Cad 156 Stride .88
11:56 HR 141 Cad 156 Stride .86
12:12 HR 141 Cad 155 Stride .85

I'm pretty pleased with this run.  Pace and cadence both suffered but I'm pretty happy that the HR indicates an easy effort in spite of the slight HR drift.  This is the first run with a average HR under 140 since I returned to running in mid-March...and a lot of those runs were shorter and slower.  Easy Effort Eddie was a good running buddy today.  

Here's more info about how Eddie and I accomplished the easy effort.  First an explanation of my breathing pattern.  If you count each footfall here is how my breathing goes...


  • In 2 3 4, Out 2 3 4 (Warm up but usually not more than about the first half mile)
  • In 2 3, Out 2 3 (Preferred pattern since trying high cadence running)
  • In 2, Out 2 (Old way of breathing which I still fall into as needed...hills and faster/harder effort)


So my goal today was to stay in that first pattern longer and then try to maintain the 2nd pattern for the remainder of the run.  In other words no In 2, Out 2 breathing.  I will admit that I did give in a couple times on short steep sections but mostly I slowed to allow myself to stay in that 2nd pattern of breathing.  Seems like it worked.  I still don't get how people do an easy effort run like this while maintaining a high cadence.  I understand the physics...ie shorter stride...but I can not do it!!!

Just for fun I took a look at my HR zones

Z1      <117     :30
Z2 117-145  54:22
Z3 145-160    4:05
Z4 160-174
Z5     >174

And to add to the fun my Hansen pace zones

Easy(Active recovery)        >11:40  32:05 
Long Run(Endurance) 10:40-11:40  26:52

So maybe still slightly to fast for a true easy effort run?

Way to much analysis for an easy run...I'm off to bed.
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Post  ounce Wed May 13, 2020 10:58 pm

Mile 5 was affected across the board, while the other 4 were in good shape. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. And your HR zone was reflective of really nice and (dare I say it) in the zone.

We sure are coming up with names!

Thanks for posting your breathing method. I turned my gnome on to simulate your breathing. That's a lot of breaths!!!

I looked at mine, this morning. I figured that my inhale is one stride. Left foot take off to left foot land. Exhale is a half of a stride. No breathing (at least today) for one whole stride.

On Friday, I will look at it again.
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Post  nkrichards Thu May 14, 2020 3:52 pm

ounce wrote:Mile 5 was affected across the board, while the other 4 were in good shape.  I wouldn't beat yourself up over it.  And your HR zone was reflective of really nice and (dare I say it) in the zone.

We sure are coming up with names!

Thanks for posting your breathing method.  I turned my gnome on to simulate your breathing.  That's a lot of breaths!!!

I looked at mine, this morning.  I figured that my inhale is one stride.  Left foot take off to left foot land.  Exhale is a half of a stride.  No breathing (at least today) for one whole stride.

On Friday, I will look at it again.
Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing when we discuss breathing.  I've added the foot strike details and bolding to my patterns.

[*]In-L 2-R 3-L 4-R, Out-L 2-R 3-L 4-R (Warm up but usually not more than about the first half mile)
[*]In-L 2-R 3-L, Out-R 2-L 3-R (Preferred pattern since trying high cadence running)
[*]In-L 2-R, Out-L 2-R (Old way of breathing which I still fall into as needed...hills and faster/harder effort)


So if I'm completing one stride when my left foot strikes the ground then my first pattern (warm up) is two strides while inhaling and two strides while exhaling.  Four strides each breathing cycle.


And during my preferred pattern I'm getting 1 1/2 strides during my inhale and 1 1/2 during my exhale for a total of 3 strides each breathing cycle.


My old (faster) pattern is one stride on the inhale and one stride on the exhale for a total of two strides each breathing cycle. 


I played around with trying to mix things up and extend the exhale.  I inhaled on a 1,2 count and then exhaled on a 1,2,3 count but I got confused.  Breathing is hard!


Sounds like your breathing pattern is similar to pattern 2 with maybe a slightly shorter exhale time??


***
Wednesday was 10 Rounds Boxing and then I headed up town to meet Janice for the MADras Runners Challenge run.  It was a 1.8 mile route on flat terrain.  We both decided we wanted to go longer.  The turn around was at the M hill trailhead so up we went.  And down the other side.  And then we had to go back.   Shocked  We walked up the steep hills and she had to walk through a phone call.  It was definitely a social run.  Social Sally accompanied us.  5 miles @ 12:46 with the walking included.


This morning it was a lift day in 10 Rounds so the alarm sounded at 4 am.  It was a brutal leg day.  What a Face  But fun.  Then Marty headed off to ride his mule with a friend for a couple days.  I really struggled to get dressed and out the door for my run but I finally made it.   No real goals today.  Just decided to see what happened.


5 miles @ 10:57 HR 147/163 Cadence 162 Stride .91
10:57 HR 128 Cad 161 Stride .91
11:01 HR 146 Cad 162 Stride .90
10:52 HR 151 Cad 161 Stride .92
11:00 HR 156 Cad 161 Stride .91
10:52 HR 156 Cad 162 Stride .91


Well that was a pleasant surprise!  Apparently Cruise Control Carolyn was on duty today.  I think the HR for the first mile may not be accurate so the true average may have been a couple ticks higher.  But I'll take that run any day.  Especially when it's the 5th day of running in a row.   Running Running Running Running Running


I'm going to try and talk the boys into doing the MADras Runners challenge route with me tomorrow.  It's a shorter, level route designed more for kids.  It loops around the kids fishing pond in town.  


Ultreya 
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Post  ounce Thu May 14, 2020 7:44 pm

Gratz on your 5th consecutive day of running!  Running faster also makes the run take less time, too.

Very nice on your walk and run with Janice, too.

I will try to take another shot at my breathing.

Your running, today, was quite consistent.  You had the benefit in mile one of running for a 'cheap' HR.  I would imagine that your last quarter-mile was closer to the 2nd mile average than the 1st mile average.  Nothing surprising there.

Now, for your reading and dancing pleasure, I bring you March and April numbers:
Date  Miles  Pace    HR  Cadence  VO  GTC  Stride
3/18   3      12:48  151    150    10.2  318    .84
3/20   3      12:28  151    152     9.7   315    .85
3/23   3      11:56  146    154     9.9   304    .87
3/24   3      11:46  153    155    10.0  302    .89
3/25   3      11:34  155    155     9.4   300    .90
3/27   5      11:55  154    154     9.6   304    .87 <--------
3/28   3      10:58  150    160     9.9   286    .92
4/2     4      10:25  156    161    10.0  280    .95
4/4     5      10:52  159    163     9.4   277    .91 <--------------
4/5     3      11:14  148    162     9.7   283    .88

And today's run (May 14):
5 miles @ 10:57 HR 147/163 Cadence 162 Stride .91
10:57 HR 128 Cad 161 Stride .91
11:01 HR 146 Cad 162 Stride .90
10:52 HR 151 Cad 161 Stride .92
11:00 HR 156 Cad 161 Stride .91
10:52 HR 156 Cad 162 Stride .91


April 4's run---

But this morning...
5 miles @ 10:52 HR 159 Cadence 163 VO 9.4 GCT 277 Stride .91
10:46 HR 141 Cad 169 Stride .88
11:00 HR 156 Cad 164 Stride .89
10:44 HR 162 Cad 161 Stride .93
10:49 HR 166 Cad 161 Stride .92
11:00 HR 167 Cad 161 Stride .91

So my pace while not as fast as Thursday was still pretty darn good for me at this point in time.
Definitely not low HR.  Not sure if/how I can manage a low HR with a higher cadence.




Nuff said.
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Post  nkrichards Thu May 14, 2020 8:17 pm

ounce wrote:Gratz on your 5th consecutive day of running!  Running faster also makes the run take less time, too.

Very nice on your walk and run with Janice, too.

I will try to take another shot at my breathing.

Your running, today, was quite consistent.  You had the benefit in mile one of running for a 'cheap' HR.  I would imagine that your last quarter-mile was closer to the 2nd mile average than the 1st mile average.  Nothing surprising there.

Now, for your reading and dancing pleasure, I bring you March and April numbers:
Date  Miles  Pace    HR  Cadence  VO  GTC  Stride
3/18   3      12:48  151    150    10.2  318    .84
3/20   3      12:28  151    152     9.7   315    .85
3/23   3      11:56  146    154     9.9   304    .87
3/24   3      11:46  153    155    10.0  302    .89
3/25   3      11:34  155    155     9.4   300    .90
3/27   5      11:55  154    154     9.6   304    .87 <--------
3/28   3      10:58  150    160     9.9   286    .92
4/2     4      10:25  156    161    10.0  280    .95
4/4     5      10:52  159    163     9.4   277    .91 <--------------
4/5     3      11:14  148    162     9.7   283    .88

And today's run (May 14):
5 miles @ 10:57 HR 147/163 Cadence 162 Stride .91
10:57 HR 128 Cad 161 Stride .91
11:01 HR 146 Cad 162 Stride .90
10:52 HR 151 Cad 161 Stride .92
11:00 HR 156 Cad 161 Stride .91
10:52 HR 156 Cad 162 Stride .91


April 4's run---

But this morning...
5 miles @ 10:52 HR 159 Cadence 163 VO 9.4 GCT 277 Stride .91
10:46 HR 141 Cad 169 Stride .88
11:00 HR 156 Cad 164 Stride .89
10:44 HR 162 Cad 161 Stride .93
10:49 HR 166 Cad 161 Stride .92
11:00 HR 167 Cad 161 Stride .91

So my pace while not as fast as Thursday was still pretty darn good for me at this point in time.
Definitely not low HR.  Not sure if/how I can manage a low HR with a higher cadence.




Nuff said.
Fair enough.   Laughing   Running Running Running Running Running
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Post  nkrichards Fri May 15, 2020 8:46 pm

OK.  Now that Doug has me looking back at my numbers...and my comments...I have to admit that I think I made a huge breakthrough in the last few days.  I'd still like to be faster.  I'd still like to keep my HR a bit lower at this pace.  But I have to admit that I can see progress.  And I like it!

***

I was exhausted this morning and my buns were soooo sore from the 10 Rounds lifting yesterday.  I was enjoying my second cup of coffee and not looking forward to pressing play on the 10 Rounds workout when I looked up and realized the sun was shining and the wind was not blowing.  The view was gorgeous.  (I wish my bike was fixed but it isn't.)  So I laced up my shoes and headed out.  I wasn't sure what I should do but I wanted to do something.  I don't know what possessed me but I loaded the workout I did on May 5th...4 x .25 intervals.  What was I thinking?

This is mind blowing!

On May 5th my fast intervals were all over the place and averaged 9:27.  Cadence during those fast intervals was 162,163,164,163.  Not bad.  Cadence during my recovery intervals and WU and CD averaged 157 and was relatively consistent as well.

Today's intervals were

  1. Pace 8:48 Cadence 167
  2. Pace 8:56 Cadence 167
  3. Pace 8:44 Cadence 167
  4. Pace 8:48 Cadence 168

What???  That's a huge improvement in both pace and cadence in 10 days time.  Route was the same.  You can still pick out the downhill interval but it's not nearly as obvious.

Now here is the stunning part.  I took smaller steps during my WU, recovery intervals, and CD.  My pace was at or over 12:00 but my cadence was consistently 161.  That is not possible! unbelievable.  I think I figured it out.  I was just plain to exhausted to execute a longer stride during my slower splits.  Razz  My stride was between .84 and .80 for those slower intervals.

I'm still trying to make sense of all this.  I should be...and am...exhausted.  A run like this should not be possible under these conditions.  I do think that I need to settle down and take a rest day.  I'm going to get myself in trouble if I'm not careful.

BTW  I completed my 10 Rounds boxing workout after my run.  It was a challenging one today but a fun one.
  
Then I gathered up Natalie and all 5 kiddos and we "ran" the MADras Runners challenge loop around the fishing pond.  The boys were hilarious.  Natalie took the twins in one stroller.  I took another stroller and gathered up Conner...nearly 3...when he got tired.  On the way back the boys discovered HUGE bullfrog tadpoles in the pond...and then came upon friends who had nets and were catching them.  We all had fun...and finished the run eventually.

Hoping I can convince myself to take it easy this weekend.  Expected rain should help.
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Post  nkrichards Sun May 17, 2020 6:19 pm

Whoa did I crash this weekend!  I knew that I probably got a bit carried away when I ran fast intervals on my 6th day of running in a row.  You would think I would know better.  So no running on Saturday but apparently working in the yard and garden does not enhance recovery.  I was dying by days end.  I took a shower and pushed play on a 30 minute recovery/stretch workout and then soaked in the tub.  Still wasn't feeling great and as a result I didn't sleep well. Rolling Eyes

I was determined to make today an easy day.  I finally got dressed and walked down to get the paper (1 mile RT).  I actually felt much better afterwards so...I laced up my shoes and went for a run.  Razz  I got in 3 very easy miles and felt much better afterwards.

3 miles @ 12:32 HR 134/158 Cadence 158 Stride .81
12:17 HR 139 Cad 159 Stride .82
12:39 HR 131 Cad 158 Stride .80
12:41 HR 132 Cad 156 Stride .81

Pretty pleased that I was able to run at a nice easy pace for a change.  Technically easy pace for me is 12:00+ so I haven't been hitting that target very well lately.  HR has me a bit baffled.  It shot up quickly in that first mile and I could really feel it.  Glad that it settled down.  It was a bit disconcerting.

If I'm going to continue to run 5 or 6 days a week I'm going to have to make sure that I run easy in between my more intense runs or I'm going to get myself into trouble.

28 miles this week...30+ if I count my warm up walks and the jog with the boys.   Running
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Post  ounce Tue May 19, 2020 10:52 pm

nkrichards wrote:Whoa did I crash this weekend!  I knew that I probably got a bit carried away when I ran fast intervals on my 6th day of running in a row.  You would think I would know better.  So no running on Saturday but apparently working in the yard and garden does not enhance recovery.  I was dying by days end.  I took a shower and pushed play on a 30 minute recovery/stretch workout and then soaked in the tub.  Still wasn't feeling great and as a result I didn't sleep well. Rolling Eyes

I was determined to make today an easy day.  I finally got dressed and walked down to get the paper (1 mile RT).  I actually felt much better afterwards so...I laced up my shoes and went for a run.  Razz  I got in 3 very easy miles and felt much better afterwards.

3 miles @ 12:32 HR 134/158 Cadence 158 Stride .81
12:17 HR 139 Cad 159 Stride .82
12:39 HR 131 Cad 158 Stride .80
12:41 HR 132 Cad 156 Stride .81

Pretty pleased that I was able to run at a nice easy pace for a change.  Technically easy pace for me is 12:00+ so I haven't been hitting that target very well lately.  HR has me a bit baffled.  It shot up quickly in that first mile and I could really feel it.  Glad that it settled down.  It was a bit disconcerting.

If I'm going to continue to run 5 or 6 days a week I'm going to have to make sure that I run easy in between my more intense runs or I'm going to get myself into trouble.

28 miles this week...30+ if I count my warm up walks and the jog with the boys.   Running
I will guess that your mile 1 HR was a successful attempt at fooling your heart.  7 days of activity and the heart was not going to be left behind for another run, yet you fooled it with an easy run.  A surprise!  Twisted Evil Twisted Evil   Just a guess.

Being a decathlete, a rest day for you isn't a rest day for me.  Your little 3 miler above could be a rest day for you.  Yes, listen to your body.  Don't make it mad.  You won't like it when it's mad.
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Post  nkrichards Wed May 20, 2020 4:26 pm

Well today was interesting!  I was up on jiggle about something that was going on with the non-profit board I'm on when I went to bed last night.  I woke up...after a restless night...still frustrated.

10 Rounds boxing is getting fun but I just could not concentrate today and found myself losing the rhythm and having to totally stop and restart several times.  I just could not maintain the mental focus that was necessary.

So I had a drink and headed out for a slow, easy effort run in the hopes that would calm me down.  Didn't work!  I realized that I was at a 10:30 pace in the first half mile.  I decided what the heck...I'd see how long I could hold on.

5 miles @ 10:37 HR 150/169 Cadence 164 Stride .93
10:40 HR 133 Cad 164 Stride .92
10:58 HR 147 Cad 164 Stride .89
10:29 HR 153 Cad 164 Stride .94
10:36 HR 158 Cad 163 Stride .93
10:18 HR 161 Cad 163 Stride .96

So much for an easy effort relaxing run.  Rolling Eyes  But maybe I worked out some of my aggression.  Pleased with the HR considering the pace and surprised at the cadence.

So my next attempt at calming myself down is a shower followed by a haircut.  cheers  Finally...
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Post  nkrichards Thu May 21, 2020 8:05 pm

Well I did get my haircut.   cheers

Still up on jiggle a bit today...

Up early for 10 Rounds upper body lift with Marty.  It was a good one...I think I'm going to be sore tommorrow.

Headed out for an early run before the winds picked up to much.  Goal was that easy effort run I wasn't able to accomplish yesterday.  I did a bit better with my pace but my HR was just as high.  It was high before I even started.

5 miles @ 11:27 HR 150/162 Cadence 160 Stride .88
11:24 HR 142 Cad 161 Stride .88
11:37 HR 152 Cad 160 Stride .87
11:13 HR 152 Cad 158 Stride .90
11:18 HR 156 Cad 160 Stride .89
11:42 HR 149 Cad 161 Stride .86

Yesterday
5 miles @ 10:37 HR 150/169 Cadence 164 Stride .93
10:40 HR 133 Cad 164 Stride .92
10:58 HR 147 Cad 164 Stride .89
10:29 HR 153 Cad 164 Stride .94
10:36 HR 158 Cad 163 Stride .93
10:18 HR 161 Cad 163 Stride .96



I'm tired of trying to analyze the numbers. 5th day or running in a row.  I ran 6 days in a row last week.  I'm enjoying the increased mileage and the fact that I'm able to run as much as I am while I'm doing a 40-45 minute 10 Rounds workout everyday is quite satisfying.

I am quite pleased to report that my resting HR has dropped a point are two and is holding steady at 48.  My watch also tracks stress levels and that's down slightly as well.  These aren't huge improvements and in actual fact are a return to numbers from 12 months ago but they are an improvement over this winters numbers.  I view it as a positive. 

Ultreya...
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Post  nkrichards Fri May 22, 2020 8:40 pm

10 Rounds boxing this morning.  And then I headed out for what I hoped would be an easy effort run.  I've had a bit of success keeping a higher cadence during a slower, easier effort run.  That was the goal today.

5 miles @ 12:27 HR 142/159 Cadence 156 Stride .83
11:51 HR 144/158 Cad 159 Stride .85
12:33 HR 150/159 Cad 156 Stride .82
12:33 HR 138/146 Cad 155 Stride .83
12:38 HR 139/146 Cad 155 Stride .82
12:35 HR 138/146 Cad 154 Stride .83

It was obvious within the first half mile that I wasn't going to be able to pull off a slow, low HR run while maintaining a higher cadence.  I tried to ease off but the HR had already spiked.  I quickly realized this was going to be a tough run.  Not sure if it was the accumulation of lots of miles over the last couple weeks or the 10 Rounds leg work that I had done this morning but my legs started complaining bitterly.  I just tried to keep moving forward slowly and ignored the cadence.  The last mile I started to feel a couple niggles that made me nervous...I had on new shoes.   What a Face  Made it home.  

I have plans to meet Janice in the morning for a run.  I don't have a 10 Rounds workout tomorrow and Janice runs at a nice comfortable pace so I'm going to meet her as planned.  I'll wear my old shoes.  Wink  Then I'm going to do absolutely nothing on Sunday!!
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Post  nkrichards Sat May 23, 2020 4:00 pm

I thought I was done for the week but Janice called and asked if I would run with her this morning.

6.23 very hilly miles @ 11:56 HR 138/153 Cadence 157 Stride .86  We saw lots of the runners/walkers completing the last run of the MADras Runners Challenge (we ran it in the rain on Tuesday  Smile) Sounds like they are trying to figure out a way to continue this.  

It's been a fun...and challenging...week.  I ended up with 31.23 miles plus 5 days of 10 Rounds (40 minutes or so per day).

I'm ready for a rest day.
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Post  nkrichards Tue May 26, 2020 2:33 pm

No training on Sunday but I didn't wake up Monday feeling very rested!  I worked in the garden for a couple hours and walked down to get the paper (1 mile RT).  Marty and I decided to try and relax Sunday afternoon.  I packed sandwiches and we drove the antique pickup around and checked on all the neighbors crops...that's how farmers relax...and then stopped at the Lake Billy Chinook overlook and ate our sandwiches.  It was warm...we both noticed the sun.

Tired Monday morning but  they were predicting hot weather so I ran early and then did my 10 Rounds boxing.  We're in to the 6th and last week of 10 Rounds and it's getting hard...but it's still fun.

5 miles @ 11:51 HR 145/156 Cadence 157 Stride .86
11:43 HR 142 Cad 157 Stride .88
12:08 HR 143 Cad 157 Stride .84
12:01 HR 144 Cad 155 Stride .86
11:52 HR 147 Cad 156 Stride .87
11:35 HR 149 Cad 159 Stride .87

Pace, HR, and Cadence all indicate a tired body.  I guess the one bright spot is that I finished the run well.

Tuesday I woke up to our 4:00 am alarm so that I could lift with Marty.  I actually felt better this morning even though it was early.  Upper body today and boy did we lift.  Shocked

Headed out for my run shortly after breakfast as I had a Zoom meeting at 9:00.  Decided to concentrate on my breathing and try to focus a bit better than yesterday.

5 miles @ 11:16 HR 142/155 Cadence 161 Stride .89
11:18 HR 131 Cad 161 Stride .88
11:30 HR 141 Cad 162 Stride .86
11:11 HR 144 Cad 161 Stride .90
11:16 HR 146 Cad 160 Stride .89
11:08 HR 148 Cad 161 Stride .90

Well I won't earn any awards for pace, HR or Cadence but it was a much better run than yesterday.  

I'm wondering if/when I'll be capable of anything close to a BQ pace again.  I'm thinking that cumulative fatigue is setting in so I'm not terribly disappointed in runs at this pace.  I'm definitely running at "long run pace" but the distances aren't long yet.  I'm sneaking into "easy/recovery pace" range on my slower days and probably should actually try and run even slower some days.  I'm running more often and as a result running more often and more miles than I've ever run during a building phase.  The question will be, once I build my base, will I be able to add in those quality runs that are faster and/or longer and still maintain the 5-6 days a week of running.  I've always had rest days before those quality run days.   Question

The experiment continues...
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Post  nkrichards Thu May 28, 2020 6:09 pm

I realized that it had been nearly 2 weeks since I did an interval run so I figured I'd see how things went today (yesterday).

4 miles @ 11:09 HR 146/162 Stride 163

My quarter mile intervals were...

  1. @9:12 Cadence 167
  2. @9:08 Cadence 168
  3. @8:40 Cadence 167
  4. @8:56 Cadence 168


Average interval pace @ 8:59.  Two weeks ago I hit an average of 8:49.  My first attempt in early May averaged 9:24.
I am quite pleased with those paces.  Goal pace is actually 9:04 - 9:27  I'm trying to get closer to that goal pace and add more intervals. 

Liking the cadence as well.  Not 180 but not bad for me.  Even more interesting is WU cadence or 164 and rest/CD cadence of 160-162.

Pretty pooped afterwards but I did get my 10 Rounds boxing workout in.

***
Early alarm again today for our last 10 Rounds lift day.  Leg day.  It was a tough one.

Was ready to head out for my run after breakfast when Gary's horses and mules ran past the kitchen window.  Something had spooked them and they ran through the gate.  So an hour later with my HR already up on jiggle I headed out.  It was already quite warm.  Goal was to keep it easy today.

5 miles @ 12:08 HR 145/159 Cadence 160 Stride .83
11:50 HR 139 Cad 162
12:12 HR 141 Cad 161
12:03 HR 145 Cad 159
12:16 HR 147 Cad 159
12:20 HR 152 Cad 158

Happy with the pace and not surprised that the HR was high and the cadence low...  It was one of those days.

Life goes on...
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Post  ounce Thu May 28, 2020 10:33 pm

Nancy, I will look at your posts and comment. Been too busy.
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Post  ounce Sat May 30, 2020 2:52 pm

nkrichards wrote:Well today was interesting!  I was up on jiggle about something that was going on with the non-profit board I'm on when I went to bed last night.  I woke up...after a restless night...still frustrated.

10 Rounds boxing is getting fun but I just could not concentrate today and found myself losing the rhythm and having to totally stop and restart several times.  I just could not maintain the mental focus that was necessary.

So I had a drink and headed out for a slow, easy effort run in the hopes that would calm me down.  Didn't work!  I realized that I was at a 10:30 pace in the first half mile.  I decided what the heck...I'd see how long I could hold on.

5 miles @ 10:37 HR 150/169 Cadence 164 Stride .93
10:40 HR 133 Cad 164 Stride .92
10:58 HR 147 Cad 164 Stride .89
10:29 HR 153 Cad 164 Stride .94
10:36 HR 158 Cad 163 Stride .93
10:18 HR 161 Cad 163 Stride .96

So much for an easy effort relaxing run.  Rolling Eyes  But maybe I worked out some of my aggression.  Pleased with the HR considering the pace and surprised at the cadence.

So my next attempt at calming myself down is a shower followed by a haircut.  cheers  Finally...
Maybe I need to Shots before I Running  to get those times.

You should tag this run as a baseline for sub-11 runs.  Miles 3-5 were essentially the same HR. 
Or maybe as you lengthen your runs, you'll find that your times for 9 miles will be at what you did 5 miles, on this day.

That will happen!
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Post  ounce Sun May 31, 2020 9:30 am

nkrichards wrote:Well I did get my haircut.   cheers

Still up on jiggle a bit today...

Up early for 10 Rounds upper body lift with Marty.  It was a good one...I think I'm going to be sore tommorrow.

Headed out for an early run before the winds picked up to much.  Goal was that easy effort run I wasn't able to accomplish yesterday.  I did a bit better with my pace but my HR was just as high.  It was high before I even started.

5 miles @ 11:27 HR 150/162 Cadence 160 Stride .88
11:24 HR 142 Cad 161 Stride .88
11:37 HR 152 Cad 160 Stride .87
11:13 HR 152 Cad 158 Stride .90
11:18 HR 156 Cad 160 Stride .89
11:42 HR 149 Cad 161 Stride .86

Yesterday
5 miles @ 10:37 HR 150/169 Cadence 164 Stride .93
10:40 HR 133 Cad 164 Stride .92
10:58 HR 147 Cad 164 Stride .89
10:29 HR 153 Cad 164 Stride .94
10:36 HR 158 Cad 163 Stride .93
10:18 HR 161 Cad 163 Stride .96



I'm tired of trying to analyze the numbers. 5th day or running in a row.  I ran 6 days in a row last week.  I'm enjoying the increased mileage and the fact that I'm able to run as much as I am while I'm doing a 40-45 minute 10 Rounds workout everyday is quite satisfying.

I am quite pleased to report that my resting HR has dropped a point are two and is holding steady at 48.  My watch also tracks stress levels and that's down slightly as well.  These aren't huge improvements and in actual fact are a return to numbers from 12 months ago but they are an improvement over this winters numbers.  I view it as a positive. 

Ultreya...
48?  That's nice!  Your watch measures stress?  Could it be called a 'mood watch?'  Smile

So about your run.  Something looked odd to me. 
Miles 4 and 5
11:18 HR 156 Cad 160 Stride .89
11:42 HR 149 Cad 161 Stride .86

Usually, you wouldn't see a 7 bpm drop on the last mile.  It will drift upwards one or 2 beats.  The only thing I could think of, and specifically for you, not me, would be your heart could do that last mile without as much effort.  That's the only logical thing I could think of.  Sure your time was slower, but your heart evidently had exerted enough and was in rest or cool down mode, while you were running.  In spite of your elevated HR at the start.

Hmmm.
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Post  ounce Sun May 31, 2020 10:05 am

nkrichards wrote:10 Rounds boxing this morning.  And then I headed out for what I hoped would be an easy effort run.  I've had a bit of success keeping a higher cadence during a slower, easier effort run.  That was the goal today.

5 miles @ 12:27 HR 142/159 Cadence 156 Stride .83
11:51 HR 144/158 Cad 159 Stride .85
12:33 HR 150/159 Cad 156 Stride .82
12:33 HR 138/146 Cad 155 Stride .83
12:38 HR 139/146 Cad 155 Stride .82
12:35 HR 138/146 Cad 154 Stride .83

It was obvious within the first half mile that I wasn't going to be able to pull off a slow, low HR run while maintaining a higher cadence.  I tried to ease off but the HR had already spiked.  I quickly realized this was going to be a tough run.  Not sure if it was the accumulation of lots of miles over the last couple weeks or the 10 Rounds leg work that I had done this morning but my legs started complaining bitterly.  I just tried to keep moving forward slowly and ignored the cadence.  The last mile I started to feel a couple niggles that made me nervous...I had on new shoes.   What a Face  Made it home.  

I have plans to meet Janice in the morning for a run.  I don't have a 10 Rounds workout tomorrow and Janice runs at a nice comfortable pace so I'm going to meet her as planned.  I'll wear my old shoes.  Wink  Then I'm going to do absolutely nothing on Sunday!!
I think Maffetone would like your run.  Steady splits, declining HR.

From your paragraph below the splits, it's apparent to me that your heart is ahead of your legs in efficiency.  I hate it when that happens.  You're at the point where your heart is going to be the least of your troubles...when you have troubles.  You go fast, it's ready.  You go slow, it'll exert with 1 hand tied behind its back.

So, that means you need to get your cadence and stride length to catch up to the heart.  Relaxing on Sunday will (was) be enjoyed by your legs.  That's a good thing.

Keep it up!
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Post  ounce Sun May 31, 2020 10:09 am

nkrichards wrote:I thought I was done for the week but Janice called and asked if I would run with her this morning.

6.23 very hilly miles @ 11:56 HR 138/153 Cadence 157 Stride .86  We saw lots of the runners/walkers completing the last run of the MADras Runners Challenge (we ran it in the rain on Tuesday  Smile) Sounds like they are trying to figure out a way to continue this.  

It's been a fun...and challenging...week.  I ended up with 31.23 miles plus 5 days of 10 Rounds (40 minutes or so per day).

I'm ready for a rest day.
Your HR was lower for this run than the 5 you did earlier, that I commented on.

31.23 miles.  Slacker.
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Post  ounce Sun May 31, 2020 10:27 am

nkrichards wrote:No training on Sunday but I didn't wake up Monday feeling very rested!  I worked in the garden for a couple hours and walked down to get the paper (1 mile RT).  Marty and I decided to try and relax Sunday afternoon.  I packed sandwiches and we drove the antique pickup around and checked on all the neighbors crops...that's how farmers relax...and then stopped at the Lake Billy Chinook overlook and ate our sandwiches.  It was warm...we both noticed the sun.

Tired Monday morning but  they were predicting hot weather so I ran early and then did my 10 Rounds boxing.  We're in to the 6th and last week of 10 Rounds and it's getting hard...but it's still fun.

5 miles @ 11:51 HR 145/156 Cadence 157 Stride .86
11:43 HR 142 Cad 157 Stride .88
12:08 HR 143 Cad 157 Stride .84
12:01 HR 144 Cad 155 Stride .86
11:52 HR 147 Cad 156 Stride .87
11:35 HR 149 Cad 159 Stride .87

Pace, HR, and Cadence all indicate a tired body.  I guess the one bright spot is that I finished the run well.

Tuesday I woke up to our 4:00 am alarm so that I could lift with Marty.  I actually felt better this morning even though it was early.  Upper body today and boy did we lift.  Shocked

Headed out for my run shortly after breakfast as I had a Zoom meeting at 9:00.  Decided to concentrate on my breathing and try to focus a bit better than yesterday.

5 miles @ 11:16 HR 142/155 Cadence 161 Stride .89
11:18 HR 131 Cad 161 Stride .88
11:30 HR 141 Cad 162 Stride .86
11:11 HR 144 Cad 161 Stride .90
11:16 HR 146 Cad 160 Stride .89
11:08 HR 148 Cad 161 Stride .90

Well I won't earn any awards for pace, HR or Cadence but it was a much better run than yesterday.  

I'm wondering if/when I'll be capable of anything close to a BQ pace again.  I'm thinking that cumulative fatigue is setting in so I'm not terribly disappointed in runs at this pace.  I'm definitely running at "long run pace" but the distances aren't long yet.  I'm sneaking into "easy/recovery pace" range on my slower days and probably should actually try and run even slower some days.  I'm running more often and as a result running more often and more miles than I've ever run during a building phase.  The question will be, once I build my base, will I be able to add in those quality runs that are faster and/or longer and still maintain the 5-6 days a week of running.  I've always had rest days before those quality run days.   Question

The experiment continues...
Love antique trucks.

Time will tell if you can do another BQ, but you can't do it if you don't run.  Yes, deeeeeep thoughtsssssss.

As long as you don't depart from the type of runs you do, I think resting can be like you've been doing it, because your body, while somewhat fatigued, is used to what you're doing.

BUT your body will love the rest days.  It'll think you're going to the ice cream store again.  If you surprise it with an extra day or two, you can do something faster or tougher
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Post  ounce Sun May 31, 2020 10:41 am

nkrichards wrote:I realized that it had been nearly 2 weeks since I did an interval run so I figured I'd see how things went today (yesterday).

4 miles @ 11:09 HR 146/162 Stride 163

My quarter mile intervals were...

  1. @9:12 Cadence 167
  2. @9:08 Cadence 168
  3. @8:40 Cadence 167
  4. @8:56 Cadence 168


Average interval pace @ 8:59.  Two weeks ago I hit an average of 8:49.  My first attempt in early May averaged 9:24.
I am quite pleased with those paces.  Goal pace is actually 9:04 - 9:27  I'm trying to get closer to that goal pace and add more intervals. 

Liking the cadence as well.  Not 180 but not bad for me.  Even more interesting is WU cadence or 164 and rest/CD cadence of 160-162.

Pretty pooped afterwards but I did get my 10 Rounds boxing workout in.

***
Early alarm again today for our last 10 Rounds lift day.  Leg day.  It was a tough one.

Was ready to head out for my run after breakfast when Gary's horses and mules ran past the kitchen window.  Something had spooked them and they ran through the gate.  So an hour later with my HR already up on jiggle I headed out.  It was already quite warm.  Goal was to keep it easy today.

5 miles @ 12:08 HR 145/159 Cadence 160 Stride .83
11:50 HR 139 Cad 162
12:12 HR 141 Cad 161
12:03 HR 145 Cad 159
12:16 HR 147 Cad 159
12:20 HR 152 Cad 158

Happy with the pace and not surprised that the HR was high and the cadence low...  It was one of those days.

Life goes on...
Well, the 5 miler HR and times were more 'normal' for a normal person.  You're human, after all!!  Might be a subtle hint of a need to rest.

Good quarter times.  Nice being able to turn it loose, every now and then.  Glad you didn't have to chase down a horse or donkey.  Could've been interesting.

I'm caught up!
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Post  nkrichards Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Thanks for your comments Doug.  It helps to have a second opinion...and it's a good exercise for me to go back and look at previous runs through new eyes.  One thing that I've realized is how much my mental state affects my HR.  If I'm up on jiggle or frustrated I can see that manifested in a higher HR even when I do a good job of keeping my pace slow.  It seems to have a bigger affect than my physical recovery.

I won't reply to all your comments but I'll pick out a couple...

  • The stress reading on my Garmin is interesting. It doesn't give a lot of information about how it's calculated.  I'll have to dig deeper and see if I can find out more.  It does explain that while you are exercising you can expect the stress level to go up but that over time you should see a lower average stress level for the day.  I don't look at it much...just keep an eye on my weekly average.
  • We don't take the antique pickup out much.  It's a 51 Ford that my grandfather (Mom's father) bought new.  Dad restored it before he passed away and all his kids/grandkids helped.  We were quite pleased when we were chosen to store and care for it.  We drove it in the local 4th of July parade a couple years ago and brought Mom over to ride.  It was pretty special.  We've just restored an old 8N Ford tractor.  It's the same model that my grandfather owned but unfortunately his was stolen so this one is a replacement.  We hope to use it for our farm tours.
  • Running specific...I don't know.  I find it (the numbers) very interesting at times and at other times I just find it frustrating as there does not seem to be a pattern that explains why they are what they are.  I am definitely training differently than in the past.  I've never run this often or this many miles.  Part of the cause is the lack of the opportunity to swim and bike...my bike is repaired and I hope to ride this afternoon. But part of it is a desire to try something new and I've chosen to experiment with Hanson's cumulative fatigue model of training.  I'm not exactly sure what that is going to look like as I continue to build my base and then eventually transition into more race specific training but it will be a fun experiment.  That's why I'm trying to run more and keep things slower.  Not Maffetone slow but I'm trying.
  • BQ pace  is the goal at this point.  I haven't made the decision to try and run another marathon and it's way to early to put a BQ marathon on my list of goals.  The earliest I would attempt this would be Nov. 2021.  So I'll see how training goes before I make a commitment.  I need to be confident that I can start running tempo runs at BQ pace now and then.  I also need to stretch out my interval runs...both more intervals and also longer intervals and see what I'm able to do.  That will come with time.  I don't want to push things to quickly and end up injured.  This situation with no races available has given me an opportunity to work on my form and try some new things that I wouldn't take the time to do when I had a race on the horizon.  I want to be confident that I have the ability before I make a commitment to attempt another marathon.


***
So...with that summary out of the way, I'll move back to the present.  Our power, internet, and domestic water has all been restored.  The community has banded together to help those that were hit the hardest.  We sent our full crew (5 people) over to help all day Monday and Tuesday.  That meant we were short handed here so I had to help out more than normal.  I expected to have to help after my run today but may not be needed...which means I may have time for a bike ride after lunch.

I'm a bit behind so I'll just post a summary and not worry about lap info for now.

Friday - Last 10 Rounds Boxing workout.  5 miles @ 12:11 HR 137 Cadence 159 Stride .83  This was a nice evenly paced run with an appropriate HR for an easy effort.  Cadence was a bit low throughout but maybe that's necessary to keep the HR lower.

Saturday - Ran with Janice and she wanted to run a 10K.  We did the MADras Runners Challenge route and then extended it to get the mileage she wanted.  It was hilly!  We were actually on an 11:35 pace when Janice gave in and we walked the last big hill.  6.2 @ 11:51 HR 140 Cadence 158 Stride .86  All data affected by walking the hill.

Sunday - Family time and storm damage assessment.

Monday - 5 miles @ 11:37 HR 143 Cadence 161 Stride .86  HR was high (151) during the first mile but I was able to settle down and count my breathing and get into a better place for the remainder of the run...and I did it without sacrificing cadence!

Tuesday - Up early to lift with Marty.  Our new program is LIIFT4 (4 days a week) but we're only going to workout twice a week.  I can't get up at 4 am 4 days a week and survive the summer!  Natalie's new group is lifting 4 days a week and training for a 5K the off days...mostly new runners.  So we lifted early and then I headed out for my run after breakfast.  5 miles @ 11:35 HR 135 Cadence 163 Stride .85  I liked this run!  Cruise Control Caroline was obviously accompanying me.  It was faster than my goal but I think I found my sweet spot!!  Spent the rest of the day in the tractor.

Wednesday - We worked late last night so I didn't get much sleep.  I was struggling this morning and wasn't feeling ambitious when I meet Janice at the track.  The MADras Runners Challenge involved laps around the track, a loop through the hilly neighborhood and then a return to the track.  The total route was 2.5 miles but we were aiming for 4.  We both felt better after we got moving and ended up with 5.  5 miles @ 11:23 HR 140 Cadence 161 Stride .88  Numbers influenced by a bit of faster...not fast but faster...running on the track coupled with a couple killer hills.  Good way to celebrate Global Running Day!  Running Running Running Running Running

We'll see if I end up having time for a bike ride this afternoon...
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