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Term Limits?

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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:11 pm

Speaking of 4'11", I used to have a girlfriend that was 5' tall.  When someone asked how tall she was, I would butt in and say "She's 4 feet 12."  WHACK.  "I'M 5 FEET TALL!"  Ah, yes.

-30-

It was 54 degrees, this morning.  Felt nice, especially when it was 74, yesterday morning.  Today's high was 75.

Today I was considering doing 4 miles, but ended up doing 3 because I determined the effort I had been doing for 3 won't work for 4 miles.  Cadence was set at 164, up from the usual 163.

3 miles, 41:22, 13:46 pace, 136 avg HR, 147 Max HR, 82 cadence (164 +/- 2 spm), 1st half pace 14:00, 2nd half pace 13:32
1.  14:04, 127 bpm, 82
2.  13:49, 137 bpm, 82
3.  13:12, 143 bpm, 81

HR zone
0 bpm - 119 bpm     -    1:30
120 bpm - 139 bpm  -  22:03  53%
140 bpm - 147 bpm  -  17:31  42%

Ooooh....look at this sports fans.  Sunday's run at 54 degrees.
3 miles, 41:11, 13:43 pace, 135 avg HR, 143 Max HR, 81 avg cadence
1.  13:55, 128 bpm
2.  13:40, 138 bpm, 79
3.  13:29, 140 bpm, 81

So, the amount of time in HR zones
060-119 bpm - 1:08     3.0%
120-139 bpm - 27:16  66.5%
140-143 bpm - 12:32  30.5%



Big difference in HR % for only 11 seconds slower, today.  I guess that's why I thought I could run 4 today, but only ran 3.  Oh, well.

Nancy, the Polar doesn't give stride length.  I usually stride in the 70s.

I remember seeing Mark's x-ray or the picture of his last, when Nike was using him as a guinea pig.  Can't say it would make him a chick magnet.


Thanks for the comments!
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  Mark B on Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:35 pm

@ounce wrote:Speaking of 4'11", I used to have a girlfriend that was 5' tall.  When someone asked how tall she was, I would butt in and say "She's 4 feet 12."  WHACK.  "I'M 5 FEET TALL!"  Ah, yes.

-30-

It was 54 degrees, this morning.  Felt nice, especially when it was 74, yesterday morning.  Today's high was 75.

Today I was considering doing 4 miles, but ended up doing 3 because I determined the effort I had been doing for 3 won't work for 4 miles.  Cadence was set at 164, up from the usual 163.

3 miles, 41:22, 13:46 pace, 136 avg HR, 147 Max HR, 82 cadence (164 +/- 2 spm), 1st half pace 14:00, 2nd half pace 13:32
1.  14:04, 127 bpm, 82
2.  13:49, 137 bpm, 82
3.  13:12, 143 bpm, 81

HR zone
0 bpm - 119 bpm     -    1:30
120 bpm - 139 bpm  -  22:03  53%
140 bpm - 147 bpm  -  17:31  42%

Ooooh....look at this sports fans.  Sunday's run at 54 degrees.
3 miles, 41:11, 13:43 pace, 135 avg HR, 143 Max HR, 81 avg cadence
1.  13:55, 128 bpm
2.  13:40, 138 bpm, 79
3.  13:29, 140 bpm, 81

So, the amount of time in HR zones
060-119 bpm - 1:08     3.0%
120-139 bpm - 27:16  66.5%
140-143 bpm - 12:32  30.5%



Big difference in HR % for only 11 seconds slower, today.  I guess that's why I thought I could run 4 today, but only ran 3.  Oh, well.

Nancy, the Polar doesn't give stride length.  I usually stride in the 70s.

I remember seeing Mark's x-ray or the picture of his last, when Nike was using him as a guinea pig.  Can't say it would make him a chick magnet.


Thanks for the comments!

Nice running, Tex. 

Pretty sure it wasn't the feet that lured her in.

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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:58 pm

I can't think of anything else that it would be. Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question 

-30-

Well, I went out to run, but the legs weren't feeling it.  one of those days and I'm probably out of ketosis.


Today's Covid update as of 9:42 a.m. CT
#10 - Washington - 6,395
#12 - Texas           5,253
#31 - Oregon            826

In Texas:
Harris County - 955
Dallas County - 831
Travis County - 351 (Austin)

I think Texas will pass Washington on Saturday.
Edit at 5:17, the governor said Texas has 800 Covid patients in hospitals out of a total of 19,000 available.  He seems to think we have more than enough to cover everyone that needs a bed.  Time will tell.
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:03 pm

Hope you're more successful convincing your body that it's a good day to run today.

Jefferson County still doesn't have an official Covid-19 case.  
Deschutes County (Bend) is up to 36.  They are more urban and that's where the "big" hospital is.
Crook County now has 1 case.  They are next door and rural like us.
Oregon is up to 899 cases with 22 deaths.

I saw the Houston mayor on TV last night.  The host was laughing at him as he was urging the criminals to stay home and "chill" and help keep everyone save.  Implied his consent that it was OK to loot and vandalize again once the pandemic was under control.   Laughing

Stay well.
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:56 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Hope you're more successful convincing your body that it's a good day to run today.

Jefferson County still doesn't have an official Covid-19 case.  
Deschutes County (Bend) is up to 36.  They are more urban and that's where the "big" hospital is.
Crook County now has 1 case.  They are next door and rural like us.
Oregon is up to 899 cases with 22 deaths.

I saw the Houston mayor on TV last night.  The host was laughing at him as he was urging the criminals to stay home and "chill" and help keep everyone save.  Implied his consent that it was OK to loot and vandalize again once the pandemic was under control.   Laughing

Stay well.
It was raining, so I waited until today.  Also, I can't get back into ketosis in a day.  Two days isn't enough, but I imagine that I'm trending towards it.

A third of the Texas counties (about 80) have zero.

About the mayor, yeah, business burglaries and crimes are up 19%, since the 'stay at home' started.  Domestic calls are up, too.  Business crime will go down after 'get to work' begins.

-30-

This morning, it was 59 degrees with fog.  It rained a good amount yesterday, which was needed because the part of Texas from San Antonio to Houston and south are needing it.

The idea was 4 miles as easy as I could.  Not trying to set the world on fire, at this point.  Cadence at 164.  I wore the Garmin, too, for the 3 digit cadence and stride length

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl

Splits were good and bpm wasn't as high as I would expect for the pace.  I so knew that cadence was not hitting the mark, starting during mile 2 and the rest of the way.  Part of that was lack of ketosis.  Doing 2 miles shouldn't have caused the issue, even though both 1 and 2 had cadence of 162.  BUT, I finished 4 miles.

It'll take some work to smooth things out.  If history is an indicator, with each 3 or 4 mile run, the cadence will slowly increase with the first mile, then the 2nd, etc. for a similar pace.  Hope it works out that way, but it'll be getting warmer as the week moves along.  Supposed to be 90 again, mid-week.  Then get cooler by the weekend.  Soon, the 'cooler' will be gone.  That'll affect all of the figures.

Y'all have a good week.  Thanks, Nancy.
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:06 pm

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:Hope you're more successful convincing your body that it's a good day to run today.

Jefferson County still doesn't have an official Covid-19 case.  
Deschutes County (Bend) is up to 36.  They are more urban and that's where the "big" hospital is.
Crook County now has 1 case.  They are next door and rural like us.
Oregon is up to 899 cases with 22 deaths.

I saw the Houston mayor on TV last night.  The host was laughing at him as he was urging the criminals to stay home and "chill" and help keep everyone save.  Implied his consent that it was OK to loot and vandalize again once the pandemic was under control.   Laughing

Stay well.
It was raining, so I waited until today.  Also, I can't get back into ketosis in a day.  Two days isn't enough, but I imagine that I'm trending towards it.

A third of the Texas counties (about 80) have zero.

About the mayor, yeah, business burglaries and crimes are up 19%, since the 'stay at home' started.  Domestic calls are up, too.  Business crime will go down after 'get to work' begins.

-30-

This morning, it was 59 degrees with fog.  It rained a good amount yesterday, which was needed because the part of Texas from San Antonio to Houston and south are needing it.

The idea was 4 miles as easy as I could.  Not trying to set the world on fire, at this point.  Cadence at 164.  I wore the Garmin, too, for the 3 digit cadence and stride length

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl

Splits were good and bpm wasn't as high as I would expect for the pace.  I so knew that cadence was not hitting the mark, starting during mile 2 and the rest of the way.  Part of that was lack of ketosis.  Doing 2 miles shouldn't have caused the issue, even though both 1 and 2 had cadence of 162.  BUT, I finished 4 miles.

It'll take some work to smooth things out.  If history is an indicator, with each 3 or 4 mile run, the cadence will slowly increase with the first mile, then the 2nd, etc. for a similar pace.  Hope it works out that way, but it'll be getting warmer as the week moves along.  Supposed to be 90 again, mid-week.  Then get cooler by the weekend.  Soon, the 'cooler' will be gone.  That'll affect all of the figures.

Y'all have a good week.  Thanks, Nancy.
I guess I didn't realize that you tried to stay in ketosis all the time.  Did the fudge create problems maintaining ketosis?

It's interesting to see the relationship between pace, cadence and stride.  Obvious but still interesting.  That last mile your stride increased just enough to allow for a faster pace even though your cadence was falling off.  The adjustments were very small but the affect on pace was obvious.  Nice HR btw!

Glad you got the rain you needed...and the cooler running weather.
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:19 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:Hope you're more successful convincing your body that it's a good day to run today.

Jefferson County still doesn't have an official Covid-19 case.  
Deschutes County (Bend) is up to 36.  They are more urban and that's where the "big" hospital is.
Crook County now has 1 case.  They are next door and rural like us.
Oregon is up to 899 cases with 22 deaths.

I saw the Houston mayor on TV last night.  The host was laughing at him as he was urging the criminals to stay home and "chill" and help keep everyone save.  Implied his consent that it was OK to loot and vandalize again once the pandemic was under control.   Laughing

Stay well.
It was raining, so I waited until today.  Also, I can't get back into ketosis in a day.  Two days isn't enough, but I imagine that I'm trending towards it.

A third of the Texas counties (about 80) have zero.

About the mayor, yeah, business burglaries and crimes are up 19%, since the 'stay at home' started.  Domestic calls are up, too.  Business crime will go down after 'get to work' begins.

-30-

This morning, it was 59 degrees with fog.  It rained a good amount yesterday, which was needed because the part of Texas from San Antonio to Houston and south are needing it.

The idea was 4 miles as easy as I could.  Not trying to set the world on fire, at this point.  Cadence at 164.  I wore the Garmin, too, for the 3 digit cadence and stride length

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl

Splits were good and bpm wasn't as high as I would expect for the pace.  I so knew that cadence was not hitting the mark, starting during mile 2 and the rest of the way.  Part of that was lack of ketosis.  Doing 2 miles shouldn't have caused the issue, even though both 1 and 2 had cadence of 162.  BUT, I finished 4 miles.

It'll take some work to smooth things out.  If history is an indicator, with each 3 or 4 mile run, the cadence will slowly increase with the first mile, then the 2nd, etc. for a similar pace.  Hope it works out that way, but it'll be getting warmer as the week moves along.  Supposed to be 90 again, mid-week.  Then get cooler by the weekend.  Soon, the 'cooler' will be gone.  That'll affect all of the figures.

Y'all have a good week.  Thanks, Nancy.
I guess I didn't realize that you tried to stay in ketosis all the time.  Did the fudge create problems maintaining ketosis?

It's interesting to see the relationship between pace, cadence and stride.  Obvious but still interesting.  That last mile your stride increased just enough to allow for a faster pace even though your cadence was falling off.  The adjustments were very small but the affect on pace was obvious.  Nice HR btw!

Glad you got the rain you needed...and the cooler running weather.
It does.  But it's my choice.  I've made many batches of fudge in the past 6 weeks.  I've made 3, just this week.  Aaaaaaand each batch, unless I make 2 in one bowl, has a bowl to scrape and consume.  Scrape and consume.  Scrape and consume. Cool Cool Cool Cool   QC is SUCH a big thing, in this line of work. cheers

I'll try to suffer through it. Sweaty But I have a thought that I can run like I'm in ketosis, when I'm really not in ketosis.  It's not feasible for losing weight, but it could be a way for me to run and eat fudge.  I really don't want to do that, but my sweet teeth are ALL for it.

As far as your stride length comment, YES!  Boy, if I could get a longer stride length, I could get a pace decrease.  I know my stride length is partially caused by my short Chi Running style of running.  But like I wrote in your blog, if I can get my cadence to be 2nd nature, then I can stretch the stride a little and get some economy of cadence.  Sort of like a tailwind.

Thanks.

-30-

Let's take the April 7, Tuesday, run.  Still maintaining the new 164 cadence.  3 miles is the idea.  It was 73 degrees.

3 miles, 42:27, 14:07 pace, 141 avg bpm, 149 Max bpm, 157 avg cadence, 0.72 avg stride length
1.  14:07, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:54, 145 bpm, 157 spm, 73 sl
3.  14:14, 144 bpm, 152 spm, 73 sl

Heart zone time
0-119       0:43
120-139    8:16
140-149  33:06

Not my finest run.

So, let's look at today's 3 miles.  It was 73 degrees.

3 miles, 13:45 pace, 41:20, 143 avg bpm, 155 max bpm, 161 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length
1.  14:11, 135 bpm, 161 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:23, 145 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:05, 150 bpm, 160 spm, 76 sl

I hit 140 bpm in the first mile.  THAT is not usual, but I've been having to do more on less sleep and I think it's the heart's way of saying that I'm burning the candle at both ends for 10 days and this is the effect.

For as fast as my heart was going, I was still able to maintain the higher cadence over the 3 miles.  That, I think, is a first at this cadence, which is very nice.

Heart zone time
0-119 -      0:40
120-139 -   9:20
140-155 - 30:58

This was a minute and 7 seconds faster than Tuesday's run.  What got me to thinking that my HR was an anomaly was that my legs were doing the cadence +/- 3 steps, today AND cadence was not as tired as the heart.  Never happens, but it did.  So, the legs 'carried' the day.  I hit 140 at a half mile!  Well, it's interesting that it happened.

There was fall off on Tuesday's cadence.  So, the test is going to be running on Saturday for 3 miles.  I'm encouraged the cadence didn't fall off.  Wasn't the combination of stride length and cadence neat on mile 3!  That's why stride length affects time.

thanks for stopping by.  Nancy, I think we're closed to breaking the code.
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:14 am

@ounce wrote:It does.  But it's my choice.  I've made many batches of fudge in the past 6 weeks.  I've made 3, just this week.  Aaaaaaand each batch, unless I make 2 in one bowl, has a bowl to scrape and consume.  Scrape and consume.  Scrape and consume. Cool Cool Cool Cool   QC is SUCH a big thing, in this line of work. cheers

I'll try to suffer through it. Sweaty But I have a thought that I can run like I'm in ketosis, when I'm really not in ketosis.  It's not feasible for losing weight, but it could be a way for me to run and eat fudge.  I really don't want to do that, but my sweet teeth are ALL for it.

As far as your stride length comment, YES!  Boy, if I could get a longer stride length, I could get a pace decrease.  I know my stride length is partially caused by my short Chi Running style of running.  But like I wrote in your blog, if I can get my cadence to be 2nd nature, then I can stretch the stride a little and get some economy of cadence.  Sort of like a tailwind.

Thanks.

-30-

Let's take the April 7, Tuesday, run.  Still maintaining the new 164 cadence.  3 miles is the idea.  It was 73 degrees.

3 miles, 42:27, 14:07 pace, 141 avg bpm, 149 Max bpm, 157 avg cadence, 0.72 avg stride length
1.  14:07, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:54, 145 bpm, 157 spm, 73 sl
3.  14:14, 144 bpm, 152 spm, 73 sl

Heart zone time
0-119       0:43
120-139    8:16
140-149  33:06

Not my finest run.

So, let's look at today's 3 miles.  It was 73 degrees.

3 miles, 13:45 pace, 41:20, 143 avg bpm, 155 max bpm, 161 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length
1.  14:11, 135 bpm, 161 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:23, 145 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:05, 150 bpm, 160 spm, 76 sl

I hit 140 bpm in the first mile.  THAT is not usual, but I've been having to do more on less sleep and I think it's the heart's way of saying that I'm burning the candle at both ends for 10 days and this is the effect.

For as fast as my heart was going, I was still able to maintain the higher cadence over the 3 miles.  That, I think, is a first at this cadence, which is very nice.

Heart zone time
0-119 -      0:40
120-139 -   9:20
140-155 - 30:58

This was a minute and 7 seconds faster than Tuesday's run.  What got me to thinking that my HR was an anomaly was that my legs were doing the cadence +/- 3 steps, today AND cadence was not as tired as the heart.  Never happens, but it did.  So, the legs 'carried' the day.  I hit 140 at a half mile!  Well, it's interesting that it happened.

There was fall off on Tuesday's cadence.  So, the test is going to be running on Saturday for 3 miles.  I'm encouraged the cadence didn't fall off.  Wasn't the combination of stride length and cadence neat on mile 3!  That's why stride length affects time.

thanks for stopping by.  Nancy, I think we're closed to breaking the code.
Yes, my nutrition hasn't been great lately either.  Janice made hot cross buns and cinnamon bread for us.  It's delicious.  I know I'm eating to many carbs and it's probably affecting how I feel but I still eat...and enjoy...it.

Boy that last mile in yesterday's run was nice!  Held on to the cadence pretty well while increasing your stride and not much affect on HR.   Very Happy

So many factors that affect our running...
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:26 pm

SO many factors.  Yeah, that last mile was interesting from the viewpoint of it being 73 degrees and had an avg HR of 150. 

The weight gain is being tagged as "Quarantine 15" or "Covid-15" akin to the Freshman 15.

-30-

Saturday night, I had typed up a nice report on the Saturday morning run, yet my computer didn't like it and crashed.  So, let me see if I can figure out what happened.

This was a 3 mile run with a cooler temp of 65 degrees.  I think I wanted to see how the run would go, being 8 degrees cooler, on effort (HR) and cadence.  164 cadence on the gnome.  Further, Thursday's run had an unusually high HR.  That was another thing, after typing the numbers below. 

Thursday night, I slept 7 hours solid, then 2 more hours.  The boy was tired.

3 miles, 41:35, 13:49 pace, 133 avg bpm, 149 Max HR, 161 avg cadence, 0.72 m avg stride length
1.  14:19, 127 bpm, 163 spm, 70 sl
2.  13:36, 134 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:33, 138 bpm, 159 spm, 75 sl

Now THESE are some good HR splits. But to start, I was hitting 140 again in the first half mile.  In fact, the 149 HR max was in the same first half mile.  I grabbed the HR strap, pulled it out some, then let it snap back.  I guess that fixed it.

Heart zone numbers:
0-119        1:14
120-139   35:10
140-149     4:46

It's conceivable that most of the heart zone numbers outside of 120-139 bpm were in the first half mile.  Anyway, good splits and good HR.  The cadence is coming around, too, with the 1st and 2nd splits within the margin of error for 164 spm.  The 3rd split will come, as the legs are comfortable doing it.

Here are Thursday's numbers.

3 miles, 13:45 pace, 41:20, 143 avg bpm, 155 max bpm, 161 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length
1.  14:11, 135 bpm, 161 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:23, 145 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:05, 150 bpm, 160 spm, 76 sl



Heart zone time
0-119 -      0:40
120-139 -   9:20
140-155 - 30:58



The sleep was able to give me a higher gear to make it easier on the heart.
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Post  ounce on Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:03 pm

Annnnnnd to catch me up, here's today's run.  I'm trying to get back to the Monday-is-the-long-run run.  The cold front came through and dropped the temps this morning to 50 degrees and a dew point of 30 degrees.  On Easter morning, it was 76 degrees.  Roller coaster.  This week, the morning temps to Thursday are to be between 46-52 degrees.  Most likely the last cold spell until December.

Going out the door, I was content with running 3 miles as a comparison to last week's 3s.  But the weather was nice and the HR at a 1/3 mile was 124 bpm, instead of pushing 140.  Hmmm.  Let's see how 4 miles looks in a bit.  I changed my mindset to 2 miles, then turnaround.  Check.

Gnome was set at 164.  Check.  Both watches.  Check.  Back on April 5, I ran a 56:02

4 miles, 54:34, 13:39 pace, 131 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length.
1.  13:50, 124 bpm, 163 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:36, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:37, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:27, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl

Heart rate zone:
0-119      0:43
120-139  53:13
140         0:15

April 5, 59 degrees and foggy, so 100% humidity

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl



Heart rate zone:
0-119       0:55
120-139  22:18

140-150  32:29




Wowwwwwwww.  I mean, Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.  I've never (to memory) seen a drop in most dropable metrics like this.  8 days apart.  Look at the two Heart Rate Zone figures.  I almost completely wiped out all of the 140hr> on this morning's run.  15 seconds was it and THAT was because I had to speed up to clear an oncoming car!

Still.  Wowwwwwwww. Shocked 

On cadence, today I did not feel like my cadence was fluctuating at any point.  I was almost just cruising along.  So, uh, let's see.  What's the next step?  Um.  3 choices.  Increase cadence in a week to 165 or begin running 4s or run faster which allows the HR to go up, then become comfortable with my pace faster.

I'm at the apex of this piece.  Have to change something now.

Wow.
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Post  nkrichards on Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:12 pm

I'm not even going to comment on that run Doug.  Well maybe just one comment... WOW is right!

No advice from me except to keep at it.  You seem to be dialed in on what works for you.

I'm beginning to think that maybe this was a belated birthday/Easter run sent down by the running Gods.  I actually checked the post to make sure it was run on the 13th and not the 12th.   Razz  Hope you took it easy and figured out a way to enjoy your birthday in these times of social distancing.

Waiting for the data from the next run...
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Post  Mark B on Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:31 pm

Wow, indeed! It takes some time for beneficial adaptations to kick in, but it sounds like that's happening to you.

Very Happy

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Post  ounce on Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:40 pm

@nkrichards wrote:I'm not even going to comment on that run Doug.  Well maybe just one comment... WOW is right!

No advice from me except to keep at it.  You seem to be dialed in on what works for you.

I'm beginning to think that maybe this was a belated birthday/Easter run sent down by the running Gods.  I actually checked the post to make sure it was run on the 13th and not the 12th.   Razz  Hope you took it easy and figured out a way to enjoy your birthday in these times of social distancing.

Waiting for the data from the next run...
Thanks.  That still marvels me. 

Birfday was fine.  I had the idea to binge a few of Season 2 of Star Trek Discovery and then watch the 2nd "The Lord of the Rings" movie.  Didn't quite do it, but it was fine nonetheless.
@Mark B wrote:Wow, indeed! It takes some time for beneficial adaptations to kick in, but it sounds like that's happening to you.

Very Happy
Guess the mitochondria are not on quarantine.  Weather is part of the equation.

Peru doesn't sound like a good place to be, this summer.  The specimens will be there, next year.

I wonder how many different usually scheduled events and occasions will be affected in the future by this pandemic, now.  4 years of college takes 5 or 4-1/2.  Weddings, reunions, maintenance on any big or complicated thing, etc.  Will any kid in public schools be advanced to the next grade, even though they may not have passed, so they can still be with their friends?  Tons of possible stories and alternatives for many years to come.  "Oh, yeah, but the pandemic affected that, so that's why X didn't happen in the Spring of '20."


Last edited by ounce on Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  ounce on Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:59 pm

It was 50 degrees, this morning, and clear with not much breeze.  This is the last morning, more than likely, of cooler temps until Thanksgiving or so.  Tomorrow, 66 degrees in the morning and for the next 5 days.  Then, warmer still.

Cadence was set for 164 and I had the idea of 4 miles, just to see what happens.  I last ran on Monday.  Wednesday was the scheduled day, but I woke up a bit tired.  I slept for 2 more hours, so sleep was a good move.

Feeling rested, I thought it might help running 4 miles, rather than 3.  Being the last cool morning for months, I pushed some, but hopefully not enough for a +10 HR increase on splits.


4 miles, 52:26, 13:06 pace, 134 avg bpm, 146 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:16, 2nd half pace 12:54
1.  13:34, 125 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  12:58, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:06, 137 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  12:41, 140 bpm, 162 spm, 78 sl

Heart Rate times
0-119       1:30
120-130  40:55
140-146    9:36

The last 2 runs:
April 13 Wow run

4 miles, 54:34, 13:39 pace, 131 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length.
1.  13:50, 124 bpm, 163 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:36, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:37, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:27, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl

Heart rate zone:
0-119      0:43
120-139  53:13
140         0:15


April 5, 59 degrees and foggy, so 100% humidity

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl



Heart rate zone:
0-119       0:55
120-139  22:18
140-150  32:29

Today's run had it's own niceties.  Some speed, twice.  Really good average HR for the pace.  And I lengthened the stride a couple of times during the last mile, too, which showed up.  The mind was leading this run for the whole time.  Seeing the mile 2 split, I backed off a bit, so I could save something for the final mile.  The last quarter mile of mile 3, I was starting to drag my heel some.  This indicates the legs were getting tired.  It was the only time the legs whined.

I leaned forward a little bit to where I felt like I was hitting mid-foot on the shoe, instead of the heel.  No more drag.  I was a little surprised at the HR during the run.  I thought, "this is going to be a good run, if HR and time is any indication."  I didn't want to run without concern for HR, because this was a weather swan song.  I wanted to run good.  I didn't want to run hard.

I didn't breach 130 bpm until after 10 minutes into the run.  The 146 max bpm happened during mile 3.  At the end of the run with 2 minutes to run, I was beating 140-144 bpm.  Nothing like the April 5 'the boy needs sleep' run.  Cadence for the past 2 runs were identical, so the legs are content with 164, but they request a little slower.

No pain or whining, afterwards.  Thanks for reading.  I'll run Saturday or Sunday.  Same morning temps.

Good run, though, and a fitting end of Spring in Houston.
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Post  nkrichards on Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:25 pm

@ounce wrote:It was 50 degrees, this morning, and clear with not much breeze.  This is the last morning, more than likely, of cooler temps until Thanksgiving or so.  Tomorrow, 66 degrees in the morning and for the next 5 days.  Then, warmer still.

Cadence was set for 164 and I had the idea of 4 miles, just to see what happens.  I last ran on Monday.  Wednesday was the scheduled day, but I woke up a bit tired.  I slept for 2 more hours, so sleep was a good move.

Feeling rested, I thought it might help running 4 miles, rather than 3.  Being the last cool morning for months, I pushed some, but hopefully not enough for a +10 HR increase on splits.


4 miles, 52:26, 13:06 pace, 134 avg bpm, 146 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:16, 2nd half pace 12:54
1.  13:34, 125 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  12:58, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:06, 137 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  12:41, 140 bpm, 162 spm, 78 sl

Heart Rate times
0-119       1:30
120-130  40:55
140-146    9:36

The last 2 runs:
April 13 Wow run

4 miles, 54:34, 13:39 pace, 131 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length.
1.  13:50, 124 bpm, 163 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:36, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:37, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:27, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl

Heart rate zone:
0-119      0:43
120-139  53:13
140         0:15


April 5, 59 degrees and foggy, so 100% humidity

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl



Heart rate zone:
0-119       0:55
120-139  22:18
140-150  32:29

Today's run had it's own niceties.  Some speed, twice.  Really good average HR for the pace.  And I lengthened the stride a couple of times during the last mile, too, which showed up.  The mind was leading this run for the whole time.  Seeing the mile 2 split, I backed off a bit, so I could save something for the final mile.  The last quarter mile of mile 3, I was starting to drag my heel some.  This indicates the legs were getting tired.  It was the only time the legs whined.

I leaned forward a little bit to where I felt like I was hitting mid-foot on the shoe, instead of the heel.  No more drag.  I was a little surprised at the HR during the run.  I thought, "this is going to be a good run, if HR and time is any indication."  I didn't want to run without concern for HR, because this was a weather swan song.  I wanted to run good.  I didn't want to run hard.

I didn't breach 130 bpm until after 10 minutes into the run.  The 146 max bpm happened during mile 3.  At the end of the run with 2 minutes to run, I was beating 140-144 bpm.  Nothing like the April 5 'the boy needs sleep' run.  Cadence for the past 2 runs were identical, so the legs are content with 164, but they request a little slower.

No pain or whining, afterwards.  Thanks for reading.  I'll run Saturday or Sunday.  Same morning temps.

Good run, though, and a fitting end of Spring in Houston.
This looks like another WOW run to me!  Minimal increase in HR for a significant improvement in pace.  Nice!
Temperature...maybe.  Extra sleep...maybe.  I'd take credit for well executed training and improvement as a result if I were you.

Hope the weather doesn't impact your running to severely...you're making great gains.

btw...I heard that Houston was a hot spot for Covid.  Stay safe!
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Post  ounce on Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:02 pm

I happened to look back a year to see what i was doing.  8 miles was an average long run for Mondays in April.  One day a week was the 6-880's with a 440 recovery totaling 4.5 miles.  I had been doing them for at least 3 weeks in April and was getting into the 11's for pace.  I liked that method.  On May 2nd, I did this in 65 degree weather.


5 miles, 1:03:06, 12:37 pace, 163 avg cadence, 0.78 m avg stride length
1.  12:53, 163 spm, 77 sl
2.  12:35, 163 spm, 79 sl
3.  12:23, 162 spm, 80 sl
4.  12:34, 163 spm, 79 sl
5.  12:40, 163 spm, 78 sl


Got a ways to go to get back to this.  Didn't have a working HR, last year.  Three and a half months until my MI, which I'm not going to do a countdown, this year.  No need.
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Post  nkrichards on Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:40 am

@ounce wrote:  Three and a half months until my MI, which I'm not going to do a countdown, this year.  No need.
I nearly forgot that Monday is the 5th anniversary of my MI.  With no Boston Marathon hype it hasn't been on my mind I guess.  The IronHeart post with the Boston bib a couple days ago reminded me though.
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Post  ounce on Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:02 am

Well, mine is easy to remember, as my best friend's birfday is that day.

As far as Houston being a hotspot, I haven't heard that. I saw a trend graph which appeared to show an apex. Of the known virus cases, we are only doubling cases every 7 days. Of course, that can be asterisked out the wazoo for not adequately testing, etc.

The whine of the week has been whether to follow Dallas and San Antonio mandatory face mask rule or win a ticket for a $1,000 fine.

I don't doubt your source, but it doesn't seem to really be that way.

Have a good weekend.
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Post  ounce on Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:25 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:It was 50 degrees, this morning, and clear with not much breeze.  This is the last morning, more than likely, of cooler temps until Thanksgiving or so.  Tomorrow, 66 degrees in the morning and for the next 5 days.  Then, warmer still.

Cadence was set for 164 and I had the idea of 4 miles, just to see what happens.  I last ran on Monday.  Wednesday was the scheduled day, but I woke up a bit tired.  I slept for 2 more hours, so sleep was a good move.

Feeling rested, I thought it might help running 4 miles, rather than 3.  Being the last cool morning for months, I pushed some, but hopefully not enough for a +10 HR increase on splits.


4 miles, 52:26, 13:06 pace, 134 avg bpm, 146 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:16, 2nd half pace 12:54
1.  13:34, 125 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  12:58, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:06, 137 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  12:41, 140 bpm, 162 spm, 78 sl

Heart Rate times
0-119       1:30
120-130  40:55
140-146    9:36

The last 2 runs:
April 13 Wow run

4 miles, 54:34, 13:39 pace, 131 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length.
1.  13:50, 124 bpm, 163 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:36, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:37, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:27, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl

Heart rate zone:
0-119      0:43
120-139  53:13
140         0:15


April 5, 59 degrees and foggy, so 100% humidity

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl



Heart rate zone:
0-119       0:55
120-139  22:18
140-150  32:29

Today's run had it's own niceties.  Some speed, twice.  Really good average HR for the pace.  And I lengthened the stride a couple of times during the last mile, too, which showed up.  The mind was leading this run for the whole time.  Seeing the mile 2 split, I backed off a bit, so I could save something for the final mile.  The last quarter mile of mile 3, I was starting to drag my heel some.  This indicates the legs were getting tired.  It was the only time the legs whined.

I leaned forward a little bit to where I felt like I was hitting mid-foot on the shoe, instead of the heel.  No more drag.  I was a little surprised at the HR during the run.  I thought, "this is going to be a good run, if HR and time is any indication."  I didn't want to run without concern for HR, because this was a weather swan song.  I wanted to run good.  I didn't want to run hard.

I didn't breach 130 bpm until after 10 minutes into the run.  The 146 max bpm happened during mile 3.  At the end of the run with 2 minutes to run, I was beating 140-144 bpm.  Nothing like the April 5 'the boy needs sleep' run.  Cadence for the past 2 runs were identical, so the legs are content with 164, but they request a little slower.

No pain or whining, afterwards.  Thanks for reading.  I'll run Saturday or Sunday.  Same morning temps.

Good run, though, and a fitting end of Spring in Houston.
This looks like another WOW run to me!  Minimal increase in HR for a significant improvement in pace.  Nice!
Temperature...maybe.  Extra sleep...maybe.  I'd take credit for well executed training and improvement as a result if I were you.

Hope the weather doesn't impact your running to severely...you're making great gains.

btw...I heard that Houston was a hot spot for Covid.  Stay safe!
The only thing that, to me, doesn't make it a WOW is that I spent 9 minutes in the 140 HR zone.

When I first saw the HR zone numbers, I thought the 9 minutes was in the 0-119 bpm zone.  THAT would've made that run a Holy S CRAP! run.  But that didn't happen.

I am pleased with the run.  The lower HR says quite emphatically that I could go faster or increase cadence.  Maybe both!  Maybe re-start the weekly 880s w/440 recovery again.

I'm not going to try to make excuses for the morning temperatures as a reason for not going as fast.  While there's no such thing as 'junk miles,' I will work on controlling what I can control, except for when it's really nice and cool!


I haven't decided what I'm running, tomorrow.  Forecasted low of 64.  Thanks.
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Post  ounce on Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:45 pm

Forecasted low of 64, I said yesterday.  A small wind shift line came through and it was 58 degrees, this morning.  Nice surprise, but will be short lived as the wind shift line is supposed to back up like a warm front.  Until that happens, we're in the 60's.

I ran 4 miles at a slower intention because I felt Thursday's run was more intense.  cadence of 164, again.

4 miles, 54:37, 13:39 pace, 130 avg HR, 146 Max HR, 160 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:30, 2nd half pace 13:44
1.  13:42, 118 bpm, 163 spm, 72 sl
2.  13:19, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:50, 134 bpm, 157 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:38, 134 bpm, 157 spm, 75 sl

Heart rate zone times
0-119        0:21
120-139   53:59
140-146     0:29

I figured out why Thursday's run of 52:26 went so well.  2 days rest.  Today's 4 miler was going fine for the first 2 miles, as evidenced by the cadence.  But the last two miles were exhibiting a general protest from the legs, as evidenced by the cadence. 

The BEST thing about the run was the HR.  I didn't breach 130 bpm until about mile 1.15. Only 50 seconds were not within 120-139 bpm.

Yet the legs were telling me that I'm not ready for running hard, rest 1 day, run hard.  So, I guess the legs aren't ready to go up a step, or go faster, yet.  I could go faster and let the cadence suffer in  the last 2 miles again.  Then recover to a good cadence in a few runs.  Then advance.

That's fine.  The legs have to carry me, so they get a say.

Pacing below 14 minutes is always a nice thing.  Three 4 mile runs, this week, and this was the slowest.  I can handle that.  It's been a very good week for running.
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Post  nkrichards on Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:02 pm

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:It was 50 degrees, this morning, and clear with not much breeze.  This is the last morning, more than likely, of cooler temps until Thanksgiving or so.  Tomorrow, 66 degrees in the morning and for the next 5 days.  Then, warmer still.

Cadence was set for 164 and I had the idea of 4 miles, just to see what happens.  I last ran on Monday.  Wednesday was the scheduled day, but I woke up a bit tired.  I slept for 2 more hours, so sleep was a good move.

Feeling rested, I thought it might help running 4 miles, rather than 3.  Being the last cool morning for months, I pushed some, but hopefully not enough for a +10 HR increase on splits.


4 miles, 52:26, 13:06 pace, 134 avg bpm, 146 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:16, 2nd half pace 12:54
1.  13:34, 125 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  12:58, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:06, 137 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  12:41, 140 bpm, 162 spm, 78 sl

Heart Rate times
0-119       1:30
120-130  40:55
140-146    9:36

The last 2 runs:
April 13 Wow run

4 miles, 54:34, 13:39 pace, 131 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length.
1.  13:50, 124 bpm, 163 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:36, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:37, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:27, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl

Heart rate zone:
0-119      0:43
120-139  53:13
140         0:15


April 5, 59 degrees and foggy, so 100% humidity

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl



Heart rate zone:
0-119       0:55
120-139  22:18
140-150  32:29

Today's run had it's own niceties.  Some speed, twice.  Really good average HR for the pace.  And I lengthened the stride a couple of times during the last mile, too, which showed up.  The mind was leading this run for the whole time.  Seeing the mile 2 split, I backed off a bit, so I could save something for the final mile.  The last quarter mile of mile 3, I was starting to drag my heel some.  This indicates the legs were getting tired.  It was the only time the legs whined.

I leaned forward a little bit to where I felt like I was hitting mid-foot on the shoe, instead of the heel.  No more drag.  I was a little surprised at the HR during the run.  I thought, "this is going to be a good run, if HR and time is any indication."  I didn't want to run without concern for HR, because this was a weather swan song.  I wanted to run good.  I didn't want to run hard.

I didn't breach 130 bpm until after 10 minutes into the run.  The 146 max bpm happened during mile 3.  At the end of the run with 2 minutes to run, I was beating 140-144 bpm.  Nothing like the April 5 'the boy needs sleep' run.  Cadence for the past 2 runs were identical, so the legs are content with 164, but they request a little slower.

No pain or whining, afterwards.  Thanks for reading.  I'll run Saturday or Sunday.  Same morning temps.

Good run, though, and a fitting end of Spring in Houston.
This looks like another WOW run to me!  Minimal increase in HR for a significant improvement in pace.  Nice!
Temperature...maybe.  Extra sleep...maybe.  I'd take credit for well executed training and improvement as a result if I were you.

Hope the weather doesn't impact your running to severely...you're making great gains.

btw...I heard that Houston was a hot spot for Covid.  Stay safe!
The only thing that, to me, doesn't make it a WOW is that I spent 9 minutes in the 140 HR zone.
Come on.  Let's be honest.  Look at your pace in the last mile!  It's significantly faster and even so your average HR was only 140 and your Max was 146.  That was a WOW run...just in a different way.  It was a WOW speedy run.
@ounce wrote:Forecasted low of 64, I said yesterday.  A small wind shift line came through and it was 58 degrees, this morning.  Nice surprise, but will be short lived as the wind shift line is supposed to back up like a warm front.  Until that happens, we're in the 60's.

I ran 4 miles at a slower intention because I felt Thursday's run was more intense.  cadence of 164, again.

4 miles, 54:37, 13:39 pace, 130 avg HR, 146 Max HR, 160 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:30, 2nd half pace 13:44
1.  13:42, 118 bpm, 163 spm, 72 sl
2.  13:19, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:50, 134 bpm, 157 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:38, 134 bpm, 157 spm, 75 sl

Heart rate zone times
0-119        0:21
120-139   53:59
140-146     0:29

I figured out why Thursday's run of 52:26 went so well.  2 days rest.  Today's 4 miler was going fine for the first 2 miles, as evidenced by the cadence.  But the last two miles were exhibiting a general protest from the legs, as evidenced by the cadence. 

The BEST thing about the run was the HR.  I didn't breach 130 bpm until about mile 1.15. Only 50 seconds were not within 120-139 bpm.

Yet the legs were telling me that I'm not ready for running hard, rest 1 day, run hard.  So, I guess the legs aren't ready to go up a step, or go faster, yet.  I could go faster and let the cadence suffer in  the last 2 miles again.  Then recover to a good cadence in a few runs.  Then advance.

That's fine.  The legs have to carry me, so they get a say.

Pacing below 14 minutes is always a nice thing.  Three 4 mile runs, this week, and this was the slowest.  I can handle that.  It's been a very good week for running.
You are doing a great job of managing your HR.  You have much better control than I do!

What are you using for your Maximum Heart Rate?  I assume that you input a number and that's how the watch is determining your zones.  Does your watch just do the three zones or are you just staying in those lower three zones?

I agree that rest days do really have a big effect on your runs and that needs to be considered when evaluating the numbers.  But I don't think it's a bad thing to run on tired legs...it's just a different form of training.

It has been a good week of running!  Nice job.
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:09 pm

@ounce wrote:I am determined to figure out a way to not let the HR be the prime determinant in going faster.  It's long been my complaint about Maffetone that I can't get faster at the lower HR rate.  It's a good method, but I can't wait as long as Maffetone takes.  So with Nancy's help and data (I'm asking) and my data, I'm going to come up with a method to accelerate Maffetone's method.

It could be as easy (on paper) of mastering a certain HR (HR 1) at a certain pace (pace 1).  Then increase pace a bit and hold the pace (pace 2) until the HR returns to HR 1 or close to HR 1.  Then, allow a bit of time to establish the new pace point.  Because HR is first to adapt, the pace doesn't necessarily have to be second fiddle to faster times.  The HR just has to catch up.  While that's happening, the legs can get used to the motion, turnover and the lungs adaptation.

I don't know if this is some other form of running exercise (like McMillan or the other bunch up north), but it's a thought that I've come up with as I type, tonight.  It can change and get better.  And it could help Nancy with her times.  If nothing else, having a man and woman of similar age, but dissimilar abilities and activities, working on a new method might could be useful and interesting.

The above is from February 10 and is the 'plan' for running faster pace and let the HR reduce, but maintain the new pace at a static cadence.

I was trying to find the graphs I used for the HR zone and found this.  I wanted to pull it to now, so I wouldn't have to go back so far.
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Term Limits? - Page 36 Empty Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:18 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:It was 50 degrees, this morning, and clear with not much breeze.  This is the last morning, more than likely, of cooler temps until Thanksgiving or so.  Tomorrow, 66 degrees in the morning and for the next 5 days.  Then, warmer still.

Cadence was set for 164 and I had the idea of 4 miles, just to see what happens.  I last ran on Monday.  Wednesday was the scheduled day, but I woke up a bit tired.  I slept for 2 more hours, so sleep was a good move.

Feeling rested, I thought it might help running 4 miles, rather than 3.  Being the last cool morning for months, I pushed some, but hopefully not enough for a +10 HR increase on splits.


4 miles, 52:26, 13:06 pace, 134 avg bpm, 146 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:16, 2nd half pace 12:54
1.  13:34, 125 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  12:58, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
3.  13:06, 137 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  12:41, 140 bpm, 162 spm, 78 sl

Heart Rate times
0-119       1:30
120-130  40:55
140-146    9:36

The last 2 runs:
April 13 Wow run

4 miles, 54:34, 13:39 pace, 131 avg bpm, 140 Max bpm, 163 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length.
1.  13:50, 124 bpm, 163 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:36, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:37, 135 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:27, 135 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl

Heart rate zone:
0-119      0:43
120-139  53:13
140         0:15


April 5, 59 degrees and foggy, so 100% humidity

4 miles, 56:02, 14:00 avg pace, 139 avg bpm, 150 Max bpm, 81 cadence average, 1st half pace 14:19, 2nd half pace 13:41
1.  14:30, 127 bpm, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:52, 138 bpm, 162 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:53, 143 bpm, 159 spm, 72 sl
4.  13:38, 146 bpm, 158 spm, 73 sl



Heart rate zone:
0-119       0:55
120-139  22:18
140-150  32:29

Today's run had it's own niceties.  Some speed, twice.  Really good average HR for the pace.  And I lengthened the stride a couple of times during the last mile, too, which showed up.  The mind was leading this run for the whole time.  Seeing the mile 2 split, I backed off a bit, so I could save something for the final mile.  The last quarter mile of mile 3, I was starting to drag my heel some.  This indicates the legs were getting tired.  It was the only time the legs whined.

I leaned forward a little bit to where I felt like I was hitting mid-foot on the shoe, instead of the heel.  No more drag.  I was a little surprised at the HR during the run.  I thought, "this is going to be a good run, if HR and time is any indication."  I didn't want to run without concern for HR, because this was a weather swan song.  I wanted to run good.  I didn't want to run hard.

I didn't breach 130 bpm until after 10 minutes into the run.  The 146 max bpm happened during mile 3.  At the end of the run with 2 minutes to run, I was beating 140-144 bpm.  Nothing like the April 5 'the boy needs sleep' run.  Cadence for the past 2 runs were identical, so the legs are content with 164, but they request a little slower.

No pain or whining, afterwards.  Thanks for reading.  I'll run Saturday or Sunday.  Same morning temps.

Good run, though, and a fitting end of Spring in Houston.
This looks like another WOW run to me!  Minimal increase in HR for a significant improvement in pace.  Nice!
Temperature...maybe.  Extra sleep...maybe.  I'd take credit for well executed training and improvement as a result if I were you.

Hope the weather doesn't impact your running to severely...you're making great gains.

btw...I heard that Houston was a hot spot for Covid.  Stay safe!
The only thing that, to me, doesn't make it a WOW is that I spent 9 minutes in the 140 HR zone.
Come on.  Let's be honest.  Look at your pace in the last mile!  It's significantly faster and even so your average HR was only 140 and your Max was 146.  That was a WOW run...just in a different way.  It was a WOW speedy run.
@ounce wrote:Forecasted low of 64, I said yesterday.  A small wind shift line came through and it was 58 degrees, this morning.  Nice surprise, but will be short lived as the wind shift line is supposed to back up like a warm front.  Until that happens, we're in the 60's.

I ran 4 miles at a slower intention because I felt Thursday's run was more intense.  cadence of 164, again.

4 miles, 54:37, 13:39 pace, 130 avg HR, 146 Max HR, 160 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:30, 2nd half pace 13:44
1.  13:42, 118 bpm, 163 spm, 72 sl
2.  13:19, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:50, 134 bpm, 157 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:38, 134 bpm, 157 spm, 75 sl

Heart rate zone times
0-119        0:21
120-139   53:59
140-146     0:29

I figured out why Thursday's run of 52:26 went so well.  2 days rest.  Today's 4 miler was going fine for the first 2 miles, as evidenced by the cadence.  But the last two miles were exhibiting a general protest from the legs, as evidenced by the cadence. 

The BEST thing about the run was the HR.  I didn't breach 130 bpm until about mile 1.15. Only 50 seconds were not within 120-139 bpm.

Yet the legs were telling me that I'm not ready for running hard, rest 1 day, run hard.  So, I guess the legs aren't ready to go up a step, or go faster, yet.  I could go faster and let the cadence suffer in  the last 2 miles again.  Then recover to a good cadence in a few runs.  Then advance.

That's fine.  The legs have to carry me, so they get a say.

Pacing below 14 minutes is always a nice thing.  Three 4 mile runs, this week, and this was the slowest.  I can handle that.  It's been a very good week for running.
You are doing a great job of managing your HR.  You have much better control than I do!

What are you using for your Maximum Heart Rate?  I assume that you input a number and that's how the watch is determining your zones.  Does your watch just do the three zones or are you just staying in those lower three zones?

I agree that rest days do really have a big effect on your runs and that needs to be considered when evaluating the numbers.  But I don't think it's a bad thing to run on tired legs...it's just a different form of training.

It has been a good week of running!  Nice job.
Okay, the run is a WOW! run...2 WOW!'s for the week.  Uh, wow!

As far as managing HR, I don't have the speed you have so that helps the control. 

The watch reports 5 zones.  The other 2 zones are 160-179 and 180-200.  I think I set it up to have 200 as the max

No, it's not bad to run on tired legs, but without a race, I don't see the need, right now.

Thanks, Nancy.
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Post  ounce on Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:24 pm

63 degrees, today.  Started out but began to fizzle about 3/4ths of a mile and shut it down at 1.25 miles.  Walked back.  It happens.
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Post  nkrichards on Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:27 pm

@ounce wrote:63 degrees, today.  Started out but began to fizzle about 3/4ths of a mile and shut it down at 1.25 miles.  Walked back.  It happens.
Yup....it happens.  Tomorrow is another day.

Stay well.
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