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When should an injured Olympic athlete give up a spot to someone else?

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When should an injured Olympic athlete give up a spot to someone else? Empty When should an injured Olympic athlete give up a spot to someone else?

Post  Diego Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:21 pm

LaShawn Merritt injured his hamstring a two weeks ago, perhaps? in time for someone else to go to the Olympics. He chose to test it today and looked pretty pitiful and is also now out for the relay, although I'm sure we're stacked for that event.

I don't think I have ever seen a hamstring injury in track heal faster than 4-6 weeks and think he should have given up his spot.

Other thoughts?
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Post  Schuey Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:44 pm

Well Diego I would say the right answer to the question would be to step-down to allow someone else to take your place. With that being said a lot of track athletes have big egos and I think when it comes to possibly having just one chance to run in the olympics most will hold out till the last minute because they hope they will be able to run.

I really don't mind this due to the fact to what you said the US track team being so loaded. I'm sure there has been someone else training and knowing that they may be running due to this injury. For other countries they may not have this luxury so I would say that it would be better for the athlete come forward much sooner to give someone else the chance to run and represent their country.
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Post  Chris Coleman Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:43 am

I don't think it's realistic to leave the decision to the athlete. The athlete's only duty is to be honest and not try to hide his injury from the team.
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Post  Martin VW Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:23 pm

Do we even still have a viable USOC? Isn't our "team" in any sport comprised of individual athletes that met the qualifying requirements?

Given that even attending the Olympics is an extraordinary opportunity, one that they only get a shot at every 4 years, I don't think I blame an injured athlete for giving it a shot.


Last edited by Martin VW on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Michael Mitchell Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:34 pm

Did Desi even run? I have had conflicting reports...did she start?
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Post  fostever Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:41 pm

Michael Mitchell wrote:Did Desi even run? I have had conflicting reports...did she start?
Yes, running with a limp then dropped out.
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Post  Diego Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:28 pm

fostever wrote:
Michael Mitchell wrote:Did Desi even run? I have had conflicting reports...did she start?
Yes, running with a limp then dropped out.

I hope her injury doesn't knock her out for a year. It seems pretty serious.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:31 pm

Diego wrote:
fostever wrote:
Michael Mitchell wrote:Did Desi even run? I have had conflicting reports...did she start?
Yes, running with a limp then dropped out.

I hope her injury doesn't knock her out for a year. It seems pretty serious.

Agreed, I've had a hip flexor issue in the past and it cleared up in 2-3 wks. Apparently she has been somewhat sidelined for 3-4 wks and her gait was decidedly affected. Hope she can bounce back and give us another fine race like Boston in 2011.
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Post  Dave-O Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:03 pm

Diego wrote:
fostever wrote:
Michael Mitchell wrote:Did Desi even run? I have had conflicting reports...did she start?
Yes, running with a limp then dropped out.

I hope her injury doesn't knock her out for a year. It seems pretty serious.

My hip injury was nothing serious, and even still, I felt it took months to train again without a hitch in my stride. I gained a new found respect for hip injuries.

As the original topic, such a difficult position. I think it was clear that Desi wouldn't be finishing this race, but it was her life long dream to run in the Olympics. She earned it. That may be a situation where getting to start and taking the DNF is worth more than a healthy runner with little chance to medal anyway.
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Post  Chris M Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:07 pm

I think I agree with MVW's sentiments on this. In the US, there is a rigorous selection process done through Trials results. For better or worse, its not like the USOC is making decisions on who is on the team based on subjective criteria. You make the team through the trials, you are on the team. Period. I don't think the individual athletes think of or even should think of themselves being part of the "US 5,000 Meter Team". They went and got themselves on the team based on their own efforts and that position belongs to them alone. It was nice and even helpful for Shalene Flannigan to tell people that she was not going to run the 10,000 before the US Trials. But if she had wanted to run them both, even if she planned to just jog one in the Olympics themselves, I think there's nothing wrong with that. That's what the USOC has set up. Individuals own the slots based on their performance at Trials and nobody owes them anything or other "team" members. I've got no problem with what Desi did which was seemingly to plan right from the bat to cross the start line and run a bit and then drop out. In the interview before the race she said "you need to cross the start line to be an Olympian" so I highly doubt she had any intention of finishing that race. And there's nothing wrong with that or with Merritt keeping his spot. Davilla and Merritt earned those spots for themselves and should be under no real or implied pressure to give them up.
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Post  Dave-O Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:19 pm

Chris M wrote:I don't think the individual athletes think of or even should think of themselves being part of the "US 5,000 Meter Team". They went and got themselves on the team based on their own efforts and that position belongs to them alone.

Mostly true, but not 100%. For example, Rupp clearly wanted Ritz on the 10k team, or else he wouldn't have agreed to rabbit him to the "A" standard. Now, that's probably due more to the fact that they train together with AlSal, but still, I think its safe to say Rupp wanted Ritz on his 10k team.
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Post  Matt W Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:32 pm

Chris M wrote:I think I agree with MVW's sentiments on this. In the US, there is a rigorous selection process done through Trials results. For better or worse, its not like the USOC is making decisions on who is on the team based on subjective criteria. You make the team through the trials, you are on the team. Period. I don't think the individual athletes think of or even should think of themselves being part of the "US 5,000 Meter Team". They went and got themselves on the team based on their own efforts and that position belongs to them alone. It was nice and even helpful for Shalene Flannigan to tell people that she was not going to run the 10,000 before the US Trials. But if she had wanted to run them both, even if she planned to just jog one in the Olympics themselves, I think there's nothing wrong with that. That's what the USOC has set up. Individuals own the slots based on their performance at Trials and nobody owes them anything or other "team" members. I've got no problem with what Desi did which was seemingly to plan right from the bat to cross the start line and run a bit and then drop out. In the interview before the race she said "you need to cross the start line to be an Olympian" so I highly doubt she had any intention of finishing that race. And there's nothing wrong with that or with Merritt keeping his spot. Davilla and Merritt earned those spots for themselves and should be under no real or implied pressure to give them up.

I agree. Perhaps I would feel differently if there was a ready and waiting medal threat to take their place, but no one really knows the athlete's health better than they do. This is the pinnacle of opportunity for them, so I can't fault them for giving it a shot if they felt the risk was worth it. How many of us know Joe/Jane Runner who lined up for Boston at less than full health/fitness because they knew it could be their only chance to run it? This is the pro's Boston. They want that experience and have worked hard to earn the chance to line up with the world's best. It can't be easy to give that up, and I would think they would hold out for a health miracle and work through the pain. I know I've lined up for a marathon when I wasn't sure if I could finish, and I even PR'd in that race.

I can't fault them for trying. When you are at that level, you really do live for the chance to compete on the biggest stage. I don't think you can be a champion if you easily give up on your dreams. I'm sure they told themselves 'I can fight through this. I've dealt with pain before. I'll be okay.' I know if I was on the Olympic Team, as long as I could walk upright, someone would have to tackle me to keep me from the starting line.
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Post  Chris Coleman Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:35 pm

I suppose I did really know, but I forgot that the US and British selection systems are entirely different. Yours is (entirely?) objective, based on athletes competing for their places. It's reasonable, in those circumstances, to say that an athlete then has the right to participate. Our system is entirely team-based, with the overriding criterion being maximisation of the team's medal-winning capacity (though the selection methods can be subjective and sometimes secretive). This places a clear duty on a UK athlete, which would not apply to a US athlete.
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Post  mountandog Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:30 pm

inside scoop:

Desi has known for some time she wouldn't be able to race, however, if she withdrew before the race started, she would have had to leave the Olympic Village. Not exactly sure which USOC rule this falls under, but that was clearly the case. You can validate this by re-reading some of the press releases and articles. Hanson actually posted on their website that she was withdrawing a number of days ago and then retracted. If you see Desi's comments after the race she said that "now she was an Olympian" and that it was better to DNF than not start. Clearly the inference was that she would not be an Olympian had she withdrawn prior to the race.

Interesting how policies and rules can drive behavior.

I don't blame her in the least for hanging in there. I have a number of friends who have participated in the Olympics and being part of the event is almost more than competing in your event itself.

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Post  Diego Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:58 pm

Matt W wrote:
Chris M wrote:I think I agree with MVW's sentiments on this. In the US, there is a rigorous selection process done through Trials results. For better or worse, its not like the USOC is making decisions on who is on the team based on subjective criteria. You make the team through the trials, you are on the team. Period. I don't think the individual athletes think of or even should think of themselves being part of the "US 5,000 Meter Team". They went and got themselves on the team based on their own efforts and that position belongs to them alone. It was nice and even helpful for Shalene Flannigan to tell people that she was not going to run the 10,000 before the US Trials. But if she had wanted to run them both, even if she planned to just jog one in the Olympics themselves, I think there's nothing wrong with that. That's what the USOC has set up. Individuals own the slots based on their performance at Trials and nobody owes them anything or other "team" members. I've got no problem with what Desi did which was seemingly to plan right from the bat to cross the start line and run a bit and then drop out. In the interview before the race she said "you need to cross the start line to be an Olympian" so I highly doubt she had any intention of finishing that race. And there's nothing wrong with that or with Merritt keeping his spot. Davilla and Merritt earned those spots for themselves and should be under no real or implied pressure to give them up.

I agree. Perhaps I would feel differently if there was a ready and waiting medal threat to take their place, but no one really knows the athlete's health better than they do. This is the pinnacle of opportunity for them, so I can't fault them for giving it a shot if they felt the risk was worth it. How many of us know Joe/Jane Runner who lined up for Boston at less than full health/fitness because they knew it could be their only chance to run it? This is the pro's Boston. They want that experience and have worked hard to earn the chance to line up with the world's best. It can't be easy to give that up, and I would think they would hold out for a health miracle and work through the pain. I know I've lined up for a marathon when I wasn't sure if I could finish, and I even PR'd in that race.

I can't fault them for trying. When you are at that level, you really do live for the chance to compete on the biggest stage. I don't think you can be a champion if you easily give up on your dreams. I'm sure they told themselves 'I can fight through this. I've dealt with pain before. I'll be okay.' I know if I was on the Olympic Team, as long as I could walk upright, someone would have to tackle me to keep me from the starting line.

To play devil's advocate: Since so many feel that it should be the athlete's decision, then are you also saying that the goals and needs of the individual are more important than those of the US team?
And are those individuals representative of the ideals of the Olympics "Citius, fortius, altius"?
And do they truly represent the best (however you define that) of what we want in our US team?

I mention this last one because I saw that one of the US gymnasts had no interest whatsoever in watching her teammate Maroney perform the vault final, playing with her phone instead.
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Post  Chris M Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:08 pm

I guess I am saying that in this case, yes, the goals of the individual are a priority over "duty to team". I thought Chris Coleman's info about how the Team GB selects its team versus the US was very interesting and telling. The US athletes earn a right to that spot through an objectively measured performance. Right there at the Trials, those selected for the team get fitted for their jackets and USA-wear, they get special rings sized for them and they get all of the logistics started for travelling over there and being part of the Games. To my mind, they now have the spot and as long as they don't break a rule or do something to get kicked out, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with that spot. That includes going to the Games even if they know they have no intention of completing their event. Attending the Olympics, staying in the Village, wearing the USA uniform in the Opening and Closing Ceremonies are all experiences they should be allowed to have and I think that's more in line with "Olympic ideals" than being pressured to stay home, skip the Games, and watch on TV from their couch while someone else runs in their place. Its pretty clear that's what happened with Davillia. She knew she wasn't going to run the whole race. But if she annouced that and was a DNS, she would have to give up her spot to an alternate and stay home in the US and miss the entire Games. That does not seem fair to me at all and I'm 100% in favor of what she did. I'm not going to kid myself that she was just trying out the leg and might have been running the whole race - I think its pretty obvious from that interview she gave right before the start that she wanted to cross the line "to be an Olympian" but then had zero intention of running the whole race. And I'm totally on her side for that. Her run and finish at the Trials gives her the right to do what she wants with that US marathon spot. For Team GB, totally different. But for the way the US team fills out the squad, my view is that the athletes are in the right to take the spot they earned with their performance and shouldn't have to give it up.
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Post  healdgator Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:20 pm

It's an oversimplification, but if the athlete earned his or her way on to the team and they want to give it a shot, that's their prerogative.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:39 pm

mountandog wrote:inside scoop:

Desi has known for some time she wouldn't be able to race, however, if she withdrew before the race started, she would have had to leave the Olympic Village. Not exactly sure which USOC rule this falls under, but that was clearly the case. You can validate this by re-reading some of the press releases and articles. Hanson actually posted on their website that she was withdrawing a number of days ago and then retracted. If you see Desi's comments after the race she said that "now she was an Olympian" and that it was better to DNF than not start. Clearly the inference was that she would not be an Olympian had she withdrawn prior to the race.

Interesting how policies and rules can drive behavior.

I don't blame her in the least for hanging in there. I have a number of friends who have participated in the Olympics and being part of the event is almost more than competing in your event itself.


So true, Michael. Back in Seoul, Bruce Bickford (who had been ranked as high as world #1 in the 10K) had food poisoning as did many other US athletes. He ran the 10K, was lapped 2x by the winners, but hung in there so he could be an "Olympian". He knew his window was small and that he would probably never get the chance to return. Desi may have felt the same way - if you start, you are indeed an Olympian.

I don't fault either her or Merritt. They earned the right to be there.
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