No Longer a Fool

Quick question for you Dave...when you run on the 'mill, do you fiddle with the incline at all or just leave it at 0% for the duration? For a number of reasons, I've shifted my weekday runs to the treadmill, and just wonder about 'best practice'.
Thanks!

KathyK wrote:Quick question for you Dave...when you run on the 'mill, do you fiddle with the incline at all or just leave it at 0% for the duration? For a number of reasons, I've shifted my weekday runs to the treadmill, and just wonder about 'best practice'.
Thanks!

When training for a flat marathon, I typically do not. Sometimes I'll up it to .5 or 1.0 if my hips are feeling tight, but generally I just play with the speed throughout treadmill runs.

I wonder what the preseason odds were for both Baltimore and Oakland making the AL playoffs/World Series.



For those 800's, were the 45 second intervals jogging or another pace? I may have to try that one soon.

Diego wrote:I wonder what the preseason odds were for both Baltimore and Oakland making the AL playoffs/World Series.



For those 800's, were the 45 second intervals jogging or another pace? I may have to try that one soon.

I saw Baltimore was 80-1 to win the WS at the start of the season...

Standing rests. It was a different workout. For the first 6-8, I was thinking to myself, "this feels too easy to be a great workout." But the volume and quick recovery periods get to you in the last 4.

Goal pace was marathon pace (5:40ish) divided by 2 (so 2:50 ish) minus 10-12 seconds, which is how I got to 2:40.

Week 11 of Chicago Training: August 27 – September 2

Monday: 14 miles – 1:24:22, 6:02 pace with the 3 x (400, 800, 2400, 800, 400). Now here’s a workout I’ve never seen before. It’s essentially 3 x 3 mile, with specific goal changes as listed. The 400’s are 5k pace, the 800’s half-marathon pace, and the 2400’s marathon pace. It was definitely different starting a segment at 5k pace and slowing from there, but the result was that marathon kind of felt like a recover pace. Then you get to hammer the last three-quarters of a mile. I took splits at the mile markers for each set:

Set 1 – 5:28, 5:50, 5:26
Set 2 – 5:23, 5:46, 5:23
Set 3 – 5:32, 5:45, 5:14

The first two went well, but man, the last was dig-deep mileage. I guess when you consider I had logged 9 miles at faster than marathon pace that makes sense.

Tuesday: 16 miles 1:47:16, 6:42 pace. I unexpectedly got off work early today, and was home by 3:00 pm. That makes fitting in 16 miles midweek a helluva lot easier. I ran to Humboldt Park (1.5 miles from my condo), did five 2.2 mile loops, then tacked on some extra mileage to get to 16.

Wednesday: 4 miles – 30:12, 7:33 pace. 8 miles – 58:11, 7:16 pace.
Thursday: 4 miles – 31:06, 7:46 pace. 8 miles - untimed. I lumped these two days together because work completely dominated these 48 hours – with 4 depositions and another tomorrow I had to prepare for. That meant back to back 14 hour days. I literally fit in these runs wherever I had an open window. Not ideal, but I was able to cram enough in to save 100 miles for the week, I think.

Friday: 12 miles – 1:08:27, with 12 x 800, 45 second rest. Though 800’s, this was not your standard Yasso workout. Instead, the goal pace was 2:40 (MP/2 minus 10-12 secs) and I was only afforded a 45 second standing interval. After another 12 hour workday, I started this one at 8:00 pm. I was close to skipping it but mustered up some discipline. As I started, the pace felt too slow, but I quickly realized that those 45 second rests pass by quickly. Like I said, it wasn’t a normal Vo2Max workout, but resulted in a lot of volume at slightly faster than HMP.

Saturday: 14 miles – 1:32:25, 6:36 pace. Ah, my last weekend of the summer in Lake Delavan. No complaints, though; it’s been a great one, and the only issue with the pontoon was one dead battery. After a nice day on the water I put in a loop around the lake on lonely country roads. My legs were surprisingly spry.

Sunday: 20 miles – 2:15:00, 6:45 pace. This one damn near killed me. The humidity was over 80% - for a dew point of 73 – which just isn’t weather I can log a long run in. So I went to my gym. The only problem is that they had the front door open, to apparently, appear more welcoming to potential new members. After the first 10 miles in the now-as-humid-as-outside gym, I had it out with the sole employee on the clock. “So you’re telling me basically that you value your potential members over the paying ones? Good job air conditioning the outside.” There may have been a profanity or two in there as well (I'm grumpy when a run isn't going well).

I finished the 20, but was incredibly dehydrated afterwards – as in didn’t pee for 8 hours dehydrated. This one is going to take some time to recover from, and I’m not happy about it.

Week: 104
YTD: 2,740

So the entire series of pictures from the Nike photo shoot I did have been released by the photographer, but I'm still unclear on whether I can post them or not (issue with Nike licensing for 90 days). I have to share this one, though....my Tat is famous.

Sounds like some cool workouts - might be good to have so much "new" running with your extensive experience.

Also, your razor burn is famous now, too. Glad I'm not the only one.

Week 12 of Chicago Training: September 3 – 9

Monday: 8 miles – 58:14, 7:17 pace. As I suspected, yesterday’s 20 miler in the humid-as-hell gym drained me. 8 easy miles was all I could muster today. #Fatigued

Tuesday: 16 miles – 1:39:39, 6:14 pace. Tonight’s workout was a big one: 3-2-3 tempo intervals with a 400m recovery, then a full recovery and 1 mile all-out. That’s 9 hard miles for those scoring at home. Mother Nature didn’t cooperate, instead blanketing the city with 90% humidity. I didn’t want to log this one on the treadmill, so I called upon my last resort – the indoor track at East Bank Club (the $165 per month gym). With the marathon now only a month away, I really wanted to nail this one.

Set 1 – 5:36, 5:37, 5:34
Set 2 – 5:32, 5:30
Set 3 – 5:35, 5:36, 5:30

Sets 1 and 2 were relatively smooth, other than the narrow turns on the two-lane track. I had to really focus on Set 3 and dig in a bit. If the workout ended there, it would have been a good one. Nope, one more har0d mile left. When I started I had sub-5:00 in the back of my mind, which for the 13th mile of the workout, would have been sweet. I pushed – HARD – but couldn’t make it happen. 5:05. After a 3 mile cool-down, the ice bath I took when I got home was more than earned.

Wednesday: 6 miles – 46:13, 7:42 pace. 8 miles – 59:39, 7:27 pace. My instructions today were to take it easy and recover. I didn’t have to be convinced.

Thursday: 14 miles – 1:38:55, 7:04 pace. Damn…my first failed workout of the training cycle. I was scheduled to run 20 today, but I realized early on that I just didn’t have it. So I backed off the pace – making a conscious effort to run slower than 7:00 pace – and cut it short. Could I have sucked it up and ran 20? Yeah, probably, but I felt like I was teetering too close to the edge for comfort. Given all my long runs in the last 2 months, I am okay with only running 14 today.

Friday: 4 miles – untimed. 8 miles – 57:57, 7:15 pace.
Saturday: 6 miles – 43:44, 7:17 pace. Two days of easy mileage to get ready for…

Sunday: Chicago Half Marathon – 1:15:32, 25th place. 20 miles total. Now, this was not an all-out race. Akita and I talked it over, and given where I’m at in training, the plan was to run goal MP minus 5-10 seconds for first 10 miles and then hammer the last 5k. Working the numbers, I figured that should bring me home in the high 1:13 range.

For now, I’m calling 5:50 my goal MP (no, that’s not sub-2:30, but it would be a PR). So for the first 10, my target was 5:40-5:45. I nailed that part of the workout: 5:45, 5:44, 5:40, 5:38, 5:40, 5:40, 5:43, 5:45, 5:40 and 5:39.

My legs didn’t feel the freshest (duh), but aerobically the pace felt smooth. I was actually looking forward to opening it up a bit and seeing how many guys I could catch in the final 3 miles. When I looked at my watch at about 10.5, I was at a 5:28 pace. Then, out of nowhere, my lame ass sissy stupid stomach turned on me again. I spent a few minutes debating whether to pull over and vomit or to keep swallowing whatever it was I was regurgitating. That’s pretty much how the last 3 miles went, and it resulted in splits of 5:46, 5:56, and 5:53.

I need to get the stomach issues worked out. My fitness was there to execute this plan, I just wasn’t allowed to finish on the strong note that I know I could have.

Week: 90
YTD: 2,830

Good week despite the sour stomach issues. Smart of you to turn that 20 into 14 as we are allowed to bomb some workouts and as long as we cope with it (and I know it is very hard), it will serve to make us stronger both mentally and physically. I wouldn't worry too much about Sunday, but I will venture to ask if you are putting a bit too much pressure on yourself and it results in the stomach issues (I know that this isn't all in your head and that is not what I want to imply). Try to visualize and take it easy and enjoy.

I can tell you that when I was at my peak (seems so long ago as it was 1991-1992), I could easily arrive at a race and make myself sick before I even started just by looking at who showed up. I actually talked back then with a great runner and psychologist, Any Palmer (RIP, Andy) and he really helped me calm down. After the only control I had was over myself and I wasn't going to run my best if I didn't enjoy it. I find even today that I can put too much pressure on myself (this past year's Cherry Blossom comes to mind) and never settle into a pace in a race. Just some thoughts, Dave-O as I always want to see you do your best.

Michele covered the mental aspects. What about physical? Have you been monitoring what you eat before a hard workout or race to see if there is something that could be causing this? Can you eat early the night before one of these workouts, keep the meal to mostly easy carbs, and see if you have the issue?

JohnP wrote:Michele covered the mental aspects. What about physical? Have you been monitoring what you eat before a hard workout or race to see if there is something that could be causing this? Can you eat early the night before one of these workouts, keep the meal to mostly easy carbs, and see if you have the issue?

I'm betting that caffeine plays a role in hard effort emesis(vomiting). It causes reflux by relaxing the duodenal and esophageal sphincters. If that doesn't help, two other options are zantac an hour or so before the race or prilosec the night before to reduce reflux. Reglan(need an Rx) helps gastric emptying and can also be used.

The good news, though, is that it doesn't seem to happen in marathons.

Speaking of emesis, how the heck did the A's get so good? They've only lost 3 games in the last month.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about Sunday, but I will venture to ask if you are putting a bit too much pressure on yourself and it results in the stomach issues (I know that this isn't all in your head and that is not what I want to imply). Try to visualize and take it easy and enjoy.

In the past, I have probably been guilty of this, including a few of the past Chicago Marathons. I was very relaxed last weekend, though, and in general don't think I've been stressing myself out about training and races. Having a coach has helped because it outsources the thinking aspect of it all. I just run what I'm told.

JohnP wrote:Michele covered the mental aspects. What about physical? Have you been monitoring what you eat before a hard workout or race to see if there is something that could be causing this? Can you eat early the night before one of these workouts, keep the meal to mostly easy carbs, and see if you have the issue?

I do think I need to move my bigger meal up the day before a race, and then just snack on smaller portions for the rest of the day. Also, get my butt out of bed earlier to allow 3 hours to digest before start time.

Diego wrote: I'm betting that caffeine plays a role in hard effort emesis(vomiting). It causes reflux by relaxing the duodenal and esophageal sphincters. If that doesn't help, two other options are zantac an hour or so before the race or prilosec the night before to reduce reflux. Reglan(need an Rx) helps gastric emptying and can also be used.

I take Aciphex every morning. So I am addressing the reflex issues, but its not 100% effective when I have to really dig deep. Like you said though, I think marathon pace is comfortable enough where its not an issue.

Diego wrote:
Speaking of emesis, how the heck did the A's get so good? They've only lost 3 games in the last month.

I have no idea. I look at their roster and have no clue how they're so good. A friendly reminder that you can't predict baseball!

You're right about the baseball thing - Go Braves! Who would have thunk they would be this good and sweep the Nationals this late in the season with their Cy Young candidate on the mound.

Some pics from the Chicago Half, though I think Marathonfoto has gone a little overboard with its watermarks

Sorry to hear the 1/2 marathon didn't go as planned. I really hope you are able to figure out what is wrong and can fix it before your next race. I know this has been an issue for you in the past.

Glad to see you were able to get into the race as well. See you in January!

FYI...if you email me your log I will update it for you.

Joel H wrote:Sorry to hear the 1/2 marathon didn't go as planned. I really hope you are able to figure out what is wrong and can fix it before your next race. I know this has been an issue for you in the past.

Glad to see you were able to get into the race as well. See you in January!

FYI...if you email me your log I will update it for you.

Thankfully it was just a workout, so no harm done.

I'm excited for January as well. For those that don't know, I signed up for the Houston Half, with the help of Joel in securing an entry through a local contact. Its 14 weeks after Chicago, so it gives me time to recover and ease back into training for 4 weeks, followed by a focused 10 week block.

Thanks again.

(Log has been emailed...)

Week 13 of Chicago Training: September 19 – 16

Monday: 8 miles – untimed. The sole goal today was to ensure proper recovery from the half-marathon workout. Hence why I left the watch at home. I didn’t feel fresh, but I didn’t feel anything close to post-race soreness.

Tuesday: 4 miles – 30:22, 7:35 pace. 12 miles – 1:23:35, 6:58 pace. While we’re not to taper yet, we are at what coach is calling the “sharpening phase.” That means the triple digit weeks are behind me. It’s weird having only logged 5 weeks over 100 during the course of a marathon buildup, but I’ve trusted the program thus far. I’m not going to stop now.

Wednesday: 12 miles – 1:17:39, 6:28 pace. And given how I felt on tonight’s progression run, I have no reason not to trust the training I’ve done in the last 12 weeks. After 4 miles at a 7:00 pace and 4 miles at a 6:30 pace, I dropped down to goal marathon pace. I closed with 5:59, 5:57, 5:51 and 5:49. It felt like nothing. I may not be fast right now, but I have aerobic endurance for days.

Thursday: 14 miles – 1:29:28, with 8 x 800. Speaking of not being fast, today was my first real interval workout – traditional Yassos. I was off work (heading to Lambeau for the Bears-Packers game) so I was up early at Humboldt Park to log the half mile repeats. They went exactly as I thought they would, which is to say I wasn’t working hard aerobically but my legs didn’t have a quick turnover. My splits: 2:34, 2:33, 2:31, 2:32, 2:32, 2:33, 2:32, and 2:30. I view Yassos as a negative predictor – meaning if I can’t run them in goal pace I don’t have the speed for the goal marathon pace – so it’s nice to have this workout in the books.

Friday: 8 miles – 57:58, 7:15. Let me just say that despite the Bears not showing up, Lambeau field was an incredible experience. The fans were welcoming and fun, not at all hostile as I feared; an unforgettable night with 11 great friends. This 8 mile run, sandwiched between a hangover and golf, was not as fun.

Saturday: 20 miles – 2:11:58, 6:36 pace. Counting last weekend’s half-marathon as 20 miles cumulative, this is week No. 9 in a row with a 20 mile long run. Yikes. But thanks to slightly reduced mileage and less doubles, it hasn’t burned me out at all. In fact, I’ve gotten stronger and stronger as the week’s pass by. I knocked this one out on the lakefront in pretty favorable conditions, and ran the second half a little more aggressively than the first.

Sunday: 6 miles – untimed. 6 miles – 44:43, 7:27 pace. Nothing more than two easy recovery runs to hit 90 for the week. While I’ve resisted comparing this cycle to previous cycles I will say this: whereas I’m usually staggering to get to taper, this year I’m getting stronger and wanting to take on more each week. I think that’s a good thing. We’ll know for sure in 21 short days.

Week: 90
YTD: 2,920

Week 14 of Chicago Training: September 17 – 23

Monday: 10 miles – 1:11:46, 7:11 pace. Less than 90 miles. No doubles. Three hard efforts. No, we’re not at taper yet, but this is clearly a sharpening week. I’m excited.

Tuesday: 12 miles – 1:12:42, 6:03 pace, with 3 miles in/out. Up first is moderate aerobic run with 3 miles of in/out, every 200m, with targets of 35 seconds and 45 seconds. I started with 5 miles at a 6:15 pace and felt smooth. I had a feeling I was in for a strong 3 miles, and I nailed it. My splits were almost perfect for the 12 laps on the track:

45-35
46-35
45-35
45-34
46-35
46-34
45-36
45-33
45-33
46-34
46-34
45-32

That’s a cumulative time of 16:02. It didn’t feel like it. I had a lot more in the tank.

Wednesday: 10 miles – 1:11:37, 7:10 pace. Running 10 miles midweek is so much better than 16.

Thursday: 12 miles – 1:13:31, 6:08 pace, with 3 x 2 mile. Workout #2 is a continuation of the series of tempo intervals I’ve run throughout the cycle, today in the form of 3 x 2 miles with the goal pace MP minus 10-15 seconds. Most importantly, I had permission to hammer the last mile. Much like Tuesday, I felt great and crushed it.

Set 1 – 5:39, 5:33
Set 2 – 5:34, 5:32
Set 3 – 5:33, 5:10

Not gonna lie, I really wanted to run a 4:5X last mile, but it was my 10th mile of the day. My legs had too much muscular fatigue to generate a quick enough turnover. Even still, running 5:10 that deep into a workout left a good taste in my mouth.

Friday: 6 miles – 44:50, 7:28 pace. Just an easy 6 mile treadmill run to get ready for a high volume weekend.

Saturday: 18 miles – 2:10:59, Dances With Dirt. First up is Dances with Dirt. It’s hard to believe this is Urine Spandex’s 6th year at this event. Yet, it hasn’t lost its luster. This year I got to Chelsea, Michigan late Friday night, and (surprise, surprise) my team had assigned me the 2 longest legs (6.1 and 7.1) and an additional 4.2 miler. My plan to not trash myself was ruined before I even woke up. Also making things interesting is that by the time my first leg was up (#4), we had a slight lead on Greg, Bobby, and Schuey's team - our main rivals - and Greg was running the same legs as I was. I most certainly didn’t want to get passed by him, though I know he’s a beast on the trails. I was lucky enough to hold him off, and thanks to a gradually increasing lead, did the same on legs 7 and 12. As a team, we finished with our best time of 8:56, and grabbed a prize for finishing in the top 30.




Sunday: 20 miles – 2:11:17, 6:34 pace. Scheduling a 20 miler the day after DWD may not have been the smartest thing I’ve ever done. But I wanted to at least give it a few miles to see how I felt because I didn’t want to push the 10th and final 20 any closer to race day. To give my legs a break, I ran this on the treadmill on Sunday night – with the Patriots-Ravens game providing the entertainment. I wasn’t as sore as I expected; or at a minimum, my soreness from the trails didn’t affect my flat running. After taking it easy for 10 miles (1:09 and change), I gradually picked up the pace in for the last miles. It ended up as a really strong progression run, with the last 10 miles coming in 1:02 and change.

Now taper can start.

Week: 88
YTD: 3,008

Congrats on the DWD finish! I remember the year we (4taap) went under 9 hrs - we were ecstatic! I think we placed in the top 25 but we had old people handicap points (we were all over 40, but Farnk) as well as my female handicap points. I kind of miss DWD, but the last year I ran was tough since I ended up being you and running all the long legs and I nearly died on the last 6 (no one was at the exchange so I had to keep going and I had no water). Thanks to Jim Kuiper, I survived.

Training looks like it is going well, Dave. Keep up the good work.

Taper time - man, that went by quick! Now if the stomach can just decide to get with the plan... Love the tat.

You guys ran great, Saturday. We just couldn't catch you.

And it obviously was chilly out there.

Bob wrote: And it obviously was chilly out there.

Classic Bob!

Week 15 of Chicago Training: September 24 – 30

Mon: 6 easy (7:18)
Tues: 10 easy (6:55)
Wed: 12 with 3 miles (5:37, 5:38, 5:37), 400m easy, 2 miles (5:31, 5:27), 400m easy, 1 mile all-out (4:50)
Thurs: 6 easy (7:15)
Fri: 10 easy (6:55)
Sat: 6 easy (7:05) + 4 easy (7:45)
Sun: 16 at 6:22 pace with miles 11-14 in 5:52, 5:53, 5:48, and 5:51

Week: 70
YTD: 3,078

You would think that by only running 70 miles I’d have more time on my hands to write a thorough weekly update. And I do. The problem, though, is that I don’t have anything particularly interesting to write about. With 14 solid, hard weeks in the bag, this week was about restoring the spring back into my stride. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday consisted of 42 easy, boring miles.

That leaves Tuesday and Sunday. Tuesday’s planned workout of 3 x 2 x 1 mile, with instructions to go “All-Out” on the last mile had me salivating. I love running an all-out mile. It’s simple; it’s fun. But first I had to knock out those pesky 3 mile and 2 mile intervals, which I did in 5:37, 5:38, 5:37 and 5:31, 5:27. After an easy 400m, I busted loose. The goal was sub-5:00, which based on how I felt I assumed was in the bag, it was just a question of how much. I hit the 800m point in 2:28. I wasn’t breathing too hard, but as with other speedwork, I still lack great turnover. From there I emptied the tanks, split 2:22, and finished in 4:50. Sweet.

Sunday’s long run was to include 4 miles at goal pace. I planned on doing them from 11 to 14. Because my legs were fresh, the first 10 turned into a nice progression run: 7:20, 7:01, 6:43, 6:35, 6:31, 6:21, 6:16, 6:15, 6:12 and 6:06. Then I hit my planned MP: 5:52, 5:53, 5:48 and 5:51. I ended with two easier miles, 6:28 and 6:26, to cap off the final long run of the training cycle.

So the waiting game begins.

Dave running 7:45s? Nice to see you among us mortals.

Is the 3-2-1 workout reserved for sharpening? Looks fun.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Dave running 7:45s? Nice to see you among us mortals.

Is the 3-2-1 workout reserved for sharpening? Looks fun.

And in the next month, I expect a lot more runs at that pace.

The 3-2-1 was the last in a weekly progression of similar workouts. Started at 2-2-2 and gradually got harder, peaking with 3-2-3-1. This one tailed off to allow me to really hammer the last mile.