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Less Is Best? Fueling

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charles.moman
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Post  Schuey Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:56 pm

Thought some of you would like to read the below article. Just something to think about when it comes to fueling during exercise.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/less-is-best-the-right-way-to-fuel.8691.html
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Post  John Kilpatrick Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:56 pm

Interesting article - I had sort of blamed a recent race/bonk on bad nutrition, but this makes it sound like I was somewhat on track (maybe a little light on the calories though). I've read the same stuff about trying to replace the water weight that you lose, which is basically impossible during a hot summer workout. Have you ever used Enduralytes/Nuun/etc? I never have and wonder if that would be a good thing or more of a gimmick. Thanks for posting and great read. I'm saving this for future reference...

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Post  healdgator Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:55 pm

That's great, but how do endurolytes compare to Gu gels or other?
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Post  ounce Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:55 pm

I agree with their article. It takes alot of blood to process food in the gut, which takes away oxygen from the legs, et al.

My preference would be the capsules because I can just pop one or 2 and swallow with water without concern of taste or mess. But part of my re-fueling during a race is to get some sugar in my system so it'll go to the brain and give me a clear mind to analyze my run. That's why I carry Fig Newtons.

I appreciate the article, Schuey. Thanks.
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Post  Gobbles Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:45 pm

I ran the razors edge of too many calories at Savannah.

My Nutrition Plan: 5-7 Gels (1st: 15 mins before, 2nd: 5 miles, 3rd: 10 miles, 4th: 14.5 miles, 5th: 19 miles) (the 2 additional Gels are Just In Case)
Combination of water and sports drink for hydration.

I took in ~700 calories in ~2:20, processed over ~3:05 (15 mins+Race time (2:50)), I think I was within 200 calories digestive issues (closer at mile 19).

At mile 19 I was definitely done with Gu Gels for the day. drunken
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Post  Diego Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:58 am

Gobbles wrote:I ran the razors edge of too many calories at Savannah.

My Nutrition Plan: 5-7 Gels (1st: 15 mins before, 2nd: 5 miles, 3rd: 10 miles, 4th: 14.5 miles, 5th: 19 miles) (the 2 additional Gels are Just In Case)
Combination of water and sports drink for hydration.

I took in ~700 calories in ~2:20, processed over ~3:05 (15 mins+Race time (2:50)), I think I was within 200 calories digestive issues (closer at mile 19).

At mile 19 I was definitely done with Gu Gels for the day. drunken

I have always wondered how much of the gels we really consume. I know I have rarely been able to get more than 3/4 out of the package--kind of like toothpaste. Anyone have a cure to avoid sticky hands? I have to use some of the water to fix that.

On the other side, I usually only consume 4-6 oz of gatorade every 3-4 miles averaged over the course of the marathon. I guess that's why I usually fall into that 2-3% weight loss category.
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Post  healdgator Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:19 am

I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets the sticky hands from eating the Gu gels. I thought I was just an idiot or something.
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Post  Nick Morris Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:01 am

Gobbles wrote:I ran the razors edge of too many calories at Savannah.

My Nutrition Plan: 5-7 Gels (1st: 15 mins before, 2nd: 5 miles, 3rd: 10 miles, 4th: 14.5 miles, 5th: 19 miles) (the 2 additional Gels are Just In Case)
Combination of water and sports drink for hydration.

I took in ~700 calories in ~2:20, processed over ~3:05 (15 mins+Race time (2:50)), I think I was within 200 calories digestive issues (closer at mile 19).

At mile 19 I was definitely done with Gu Gels for the day. drunken

That happened to me, as well. My plan was to take a gel every 45 minutes with beans mixed in between, but ended up skipping the last gel and last bean.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:40 am

I keep my Gu's (I actually use ClifShots) on the inside of my shorts, pinned there, which keeps them warm enough to be thinner. Especially near the end of the race, they're more like (real) maple syrup than toothpaste. Either way, not sure how everyone's getting such sticky hands? I can't think of a way to describe how I eat a gel without it sounding raunchy. But less hand action, more lips and teeth action What a Face
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Post  ounce Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:48 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:I keep my Gu's (I actually use ClifShots) on the inside of my shorts, pinned there, which keeps them warm enough to be thinner. Especially near the end of the race, they're more like (real) maple syrup than toothpaste. Either way, not sure how everyone's getting such sticky hands? I can't think of a way to describe how I eat a gel without it sounding raunchy. But less hand action, more lips and teeth action What a Face

Well, it's like honey in a single-serve wrapper. Tear off the end, put the wrapper in your mouth, bite down on the wrapper and with the pulling motion of your hand, you strip the product into your mouth.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:12 pm

Ounce managed to make that as clean as possible. Yes. You do that.

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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:44 pm

Hmm, I always thought I was erring on the light side, but maybe not. For NY, I had a plain bagel and coffee when I got the the Athlete's Village at 7:30 along with 2 Succeed tablets about 1 hr before the race and some water. During the race, I consumed three gels (6, 13, and 19 miles) and I drank either water or Gatorade at every other water stop (every 2 miles). After the race, I immediately drank the bottle of water given to us and ate a bag of pretzels. I felt great after that, completely recovered. If the weather had been warmer, I would have taken two more Succeed tablets after about 2 1/2 hrs of running, but it wasn't. Once I adopted this Succeed tablet strategy in training (long runs) and racing (marathons), I have not had any cramping issues. Now my training has changed a little in that I've been more consistent and run more mileage over the past 1.5 yrs, but that is also because I have been mostly injury free.
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Post  healdgator Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:11 pm

What are succeed tablets?
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Post  Mark B Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:19 pm

healdgator wrote:What are succeed tablets?

Succeed S!Caps are an electrolyte replacement capsule, much like Endurolytes, but with more sodium - so you need to take fewer of them per hour to get what you need to keep your electrolytes in balance. They're cheaper, too.

I've been experimenting with Endurolytes and S!Caps since I started doing more runs on trails, and I've found that they've made a big difference in how easy it is to keep running for hours on end. Maybe, just maybe, what I've always assumed was the feeling of tired, sore, legs during a race or long runs was actually cramping due to low electrolytes. Now, when my legs start to hurt about an hour in, I take two Endurolytes or an S!Cap and within five or ten minutes, the soreness goes away. (Edited to add that most of my experience has been with Endurolytes, not S-Caps.)

I've read that ultra runners pay a lot more attention to electrolyte management than marathon runners... and that they manage fuel intake as much as anything to keep their mind clear and focused as they run.


Last edited by Mark B on Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To clarify that most of my experience has been with Endurolytes, not S-Caps. S-Caps seem to work, also. But I haven't used them enough to say for sure which is best for me. Your mileage may vary.)
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Post  healdgator Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:33 pm

Mark B wrote:
healdgator wrote:What are succeed tablets?

Succeed S!Caps are an electrolyte replacement capsule, much like Endurolytes, but with more sodium - so you need to take fewer of them per hour to get what you need to keep your electrolytes in balance. They're cheaper, too.

I've been experimenting with Endurolytes and S!Caps since I started doing more runs on trails, and I've found that they've made a big difference in how easy it is to keep running for hours on end. Maybe, just maybe, what I've always assumed was the feeling of tired, sore, legs during a race or long runs was actually cramping due to low electrolytes. Now, when my legs start to hurt about an hour in, I take an S!Cap and within five or ten minutes, the soreness goes away.

I've read that ultra runners pay a lot more attention to electrolyte management than marathon runners... and that they manage fuel intake as much as anything to keep their mind clear and focused as they run.

I'm going to pick some these up at the running store if they have them. I have a half marathon on Sunday, so I'll give it a try.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:31 pm

I think you can only get Succeed caps on line, but I beleive you can get the Endurolytes at most running stores. An ultra friend turned me on to the S!Caps.
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Post  Julie Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:21 pm

I think I go too light. I usually eat a bowl of oatmeal and possibly a banana a couple of hrs before a marathon and then maybe 20 gummy bears the entire race with water. If someone hands me another kind of candy maybe I'll eat that on the course. I have taken GU in the past and I really need to work on my eating strategy especially if I'm going to finish a 50 miler.
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Post  charles.moman Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:39 pm

Yep, on a 50 miler eating is the only way to survive.
At my 8 hour ultra I would grab a little something at every table.
Maybe a few pretzels, some M & Ms, an orange slice - not too much.
I was not worried about getting sick because I had practiced in earlier runs.
Even with practice, on any given day you could still get sick, I know. Sad
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Post  healdgator Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:36 pm

Just ordered a bottle of those S! Caps. I expect to be shaving 1-2 minutes per mile off of all my runs. Thanks in advance!
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Post  Ben Z Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:05 pm

Thanks for the info. I just ordered a bottle of the SUCCEED! tablets.

Cheers.
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Post  Schuey Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:19 pm

Ben Z wrote:Thanks for the info. I just ordered a bottle of the SUCCEED! tablets.

Cheers.

Ben the SUCCEED tablets are good but you might also want to look into the Endurolytes or their Endurolytes Fizz. I find that both of these products are more well balanced vs the Succeed tablets. I used the Fizz tablets in my water along with a protein drink during the JFK 50 miler and didn't deal with any cramping issues during or even after the race.
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Post  Ben Z Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:21 am

Cool. I'll pick up the Hammer tablets tomorrow from Moving Shoes.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:21 pm

I love the Moving Shoes store in Encinitas - sigh.
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Post  Ben Z Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:27 am

Tried Endurolytes yesterday on a two hour long run. Took two at 40 minute intervals. Not sure if it was the capsules or the Cytocarb/Muscle Milk Light shake I took down Pre-run but I felt very good the second half. My first good run in a couple of weeks. I'll stick with Endurolytes.
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Post  jon c Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:47 pm

Finally got around to reading this article. It is indeed very insightful. I have rarely encountered fluid related issues in distance racing up to this point. I have never tried to keep up with loss as the article mentioned. It seems our bodies intuitively know this.

Now, in my first ultra I bonked due to too few calories but that was largely fixed in my fall 50 miler. Still had some stomach related issues, but these should be fixable with time.

As for pre-race fueling, I changed in the past few years to eating three hard boiled eggs one to two hours before starting. One of the best changes I ever made. Got the idea from the Paleo Diet for Athletes book.

Thanks Schuey for the article.
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