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How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

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How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:04 am

How do you know if your peaking to early or if your peaking at the right
time?

I use HR monitor religiously and I am very in tune with my body
and purpose of each run. But peaking at right time still alludes me as I
just "trust" in the training schedule building up, doing step back weeks, tapering etc.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  mul21 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:10 am

I think you have a harder time than most because really, when was the last time you tried to peak for a single marathon? No matter what you say, I don't think you can run your best marathon when you haven't put in a "full" training cycle or when you're coming off running one 4-6 weeks previous. The body just doesn't work that way.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:31 am

@mul21 wrote:I think you have a harder time than most because really, when was the last time you tried to peak for a single marathon? No matter what you say, I don't think you can run your best marathon when you haven't put in a "full" training cycle or when you're coming off running one 4-6 weeks previous. The body just doesn't work that way.

2009 was the last year. 2010 was all about multiples and early 2011 while training for HM in May.

I agree. This cycle focus is only on hartford no other marathons during this training (Philly after as back up) and not since April (fun run marathon). So, training is going well and I should be in top condition compared to my 2010 multi quest and 2011 muilt quest stints. But still how do you know if your peaking there most be some signs maybe HR, pace, feeling in the body. Divine intervention.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  mul21 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:38 am

I think being nearly completely thrashed about 6 weeks before the marathon, then backing off a bit, then tapering is how it should feel. If you're getting through all your workouts easily and not ever struggling during an entire training cycle, you didn't push enough. Now, as to how to tell you're peaking at the right time, I really think you have to trust the science and how people have been successful before. You really don't know if you hit it right until you've done it a bunch of times.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:33 pm

@mul21 wrote:I think being nearly completely thrashed about 6 weeks before the marathon, then backing off a bit, then tapering is how it should feel. If you're getting through all your workouts easily and not ever struggling during an entire training cycle, you didn't push enough. Now, as to how to tell you're peaking at the right time, I really think you have to trust the science and how people have been successful before. You really don't know if you hit it right until you've done it a bunch of times.

Nearly thrashed 6 weeks before....For me that would be this week. Not sure I feel thrashed nor want to but I do have 21 miles Sunday and 75 for the week so there is room for that to happen. lol!

6 weeks out seems a bit early since one would still have a few weeks of some peak weeks of running. Would you not want to feel like ok I had enough come the start of taper and use taper to rejunivate while maintaining the fitness you have gained? scratch
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Jerry on Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:53 pm

I feel we may never know as we keep improving. Every cycle, the programs change, we feel different. The elites stay at a much narrow range and may have a better chance.

Now if you don't improve, why do you care about peaking?! lol!
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Chris M on Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:29 pm

This gets to one of the debates we had in the other forums where I suggested that if you don't "FAIL" a workout or two (or more) during a marathon cycle, you simply are not pushing it hard enough. If you are using the word and concept of "peak" that means to me that you are trying to run the best marathon time possible. And if best marathon time possible is the goal and not something like just finish or run a time that is quite a bit slower than your capabiltities, I think you are going to need to have the feeling of going right to the edge of the cliff and maybe a bit over 4-8 weeks out when you are in the meat of the cycle. 62 mile weeks with long runs done at MP+60 not leaving you like you want to sleep for 12 hours straight? Do 75 with the long run done at MP+30 and an MP fast finish. "Stress. Recover. Repeat" works best when the stress is very real so I think Jim is on to something when he says that you should feel pretty wiped during the 1-2 month out portion of your goal marathon cycle. If you don't feel wiped, go run another 10 mile GA. So to answer the original question of how do you know if you are peaking too early? If you feel really good and decent 4+ weeks out from the marathon, you should probably start pushing it harder in training.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:51 pm

@Chris M wrote:This gets to one of the debates we had in the other forums where I suggested that if you don't "FAIL" a workout or two (or more) during a marathon cycle, you simply are not pushing it hard enough. If you are using the word and concept of "peak" that means to me that you are trying to run the best marathon time possible. And if best marathon time possible is the goal and not something like just finish or run a time that is quite a bit slower than your capabiltities, I think you are going to need to have the feeling of going right to the edge of the cliff and maybe a bit over 4-8 weeks out when you are in the meat of the cycle. 62 mile weeks with long runs done at MP+60 not leaving you like you want to sleep for 12 hours straight? Do 75 with the long run done at MP+30 and an MP fast finish. "Stress. Recover. Repeat" works best when the stress is very real so I think Jim is on to something when he says that you should feel pretty wiped during the 1-2 month out portion of your goal marathon cycle. If you don't feel wiped, go run another 10 mile GA. So to answer the original question of how do you know if you are peaking too early? If you feel really good and decent 4+ weeks out from the marathon, you should probably start pushing it harder in training.

You have to take into affect that we have been running through some crazy heat this summer so it happens by 4-8 or at least 4-6 weeks out is now into cooler weather so I am running harder and longer but the nicer weather sort of makes up for it.

That said, I am 6 weeks out this week and this week is one of my hardest weeks actually these next 3 weeks are, so I have to think here is where i want to push it up a notch (which is in my schedule to do so) and feel a bit spent after some runs or at the end of a week.

Still not sure I want to feel wiped although it all depends on what that feels for the person. I know for me wiped means I am looking forward to less mileage or tapering.

Ok, I might turn tomorrows run into some type of MP run. Maybe LSD with 2x2 AT MP for 10 miles.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:54 pm

3 words: Trust your training.

Anyway, I think Chris' point is more than valid. I had a couple of bad runs this week, and he already made me feel better, and my race is not until 11/6.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:27 pm

@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:3 words: Trust your training.

Anyway, I think Chris' point is more than valid. I had a couple of bad runs this week, and he already made me feel better, and my race is not until 11/6.

Maybe you are all just trying to justify bad runs or feeling like crap. lol!

Of course I am kidding. I am going to take the advice of you guys and gals and keep on pushing as planned.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Jerry on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:33 am

Come to think about it, I did have the feeling Chris described weeks before my sub 3 marathon. I was worried I was over trained. lol!
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  T Miller on Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:55 am

I think you should press to the edge of the cliff but you shouldn't drive yourself on over the cliff. When you sense the edge coming you should ease back a little so that you can ride that crest until race day. I've gone over the edge before and have never been able to get back up.
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  ssilvert on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:11 pm

@Kenny B. wrote:How do you know if your peaking to early or if your peaking at the right
time?
My advice, for what it's worth:

If you trained so hard you got injured, you peaked too early.

If you feel like an injury is coming on, you're probably near a peak and you need to back off slightly. Keep up the injury-free effort level until it's time for the real taper.

If you are feeling strong enough to meet your goal and you still have extra training time left, don't get greedy and end up hurting yourself. Keep doing what you are doing. Maybe practice race pace a little more, but that's all.

Yes, I've messed up in all three situations.

Stan
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Ben Z on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:45 pm

I think you want to feel like you are improving every couple of weeks. You may have a bad workout or two, and consequently a bad week, but if you are not improving over a 2-3 week span you are probably overdoing it (or not doing enough) and not timing your peak appropriately. Based on experience, and how/when I push myself in training, I know I am going to feel like absolute crap until about 4-5 days before a marathon. And usually I don't feel good until 1-2 days before. It's just the way things work for me - I know it and I accept it.

For me it's all about putting in as many miles as my life can handle up until 3 weeks out from a goal race. If my times in training continually fall over the course of the previous 15-20 weeks I know I am peaking. It may not be the highest peak I can achieve, but goal workouts prove to me I am peaking. You want to feel like you are able to hit a few key workouts that prove you are able to run your goal race - knowing you will never really know until raceday.

Not sure if that made any sense...but it's Friday and I am about to run for the second time today. I'm tired Wink
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Re: How do you know if you're peaking to early for marathon!

Post  Kenny B. on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:55 pm

@Ben Z wrote:I think you want to feel like you are improving every couple of weeks. You may have a bad workout or two, and consequently a bad week, but if you are not improving over a 2-3 week span you are probably overdoing it (or not doing enough) and not timing your peak appropriately. Based on experience, and how/when I push myself in training, I know I am going to feel like absolute crap until about 4-5 days before a marathon. And usually I don't feel good until 1-2 days before. It's just the way things work for me - I know it and I accept it.

For me it's all about putting in as many miles as my life can handle up until 3 weeks out from a goal race. If my times in training continually fall over the course of the previous 15-20 weeks I know I am peaking. It may not be the highest peak I can achieve, but goal workouts prove to me I am peaking. You want to feel like you are able to hit a few key workouts that prove you are able to run your goal race - knowing you will never really know until raceday.

Not sure if that made any sense...but it's Friday and I am about to run for the second time today. I'm tired Wink

good stuff.
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