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Sliding toward my goals...

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Sliding toward my goals... - Page 2 Empty Re: Sliding toward my goals...

Post  KBFitz on Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:30 am

Your sliding appears to be even more intense than my routine weekly effort. So keep on sliding!
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Post  nkrichards on Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:39 am

@KBFitz wrote:Your sliding appears to be even more intense than my routine weekly effort. So keep on sliding!
Thanks Kevin...  I'm enjoying the challenge of learning to ski but struggling to find time for it along with all my other commitments.

***

Speaking of finding time...taking a week out of my busy schedule for bootcamp in Puerto Vallarta didn't help.  The gym where Katie works out organizes a retreat every year.  I tagged along to the one in Hawaii 5 years ago.  (Katie's gym is a small privately owned facility.  They don't have machines etc.  Just do Bootcamp, Pound, Yoga classes...  It's a good fit for Katie.) They booked a villa south of PV for a week.  We did a Bootcamp or Pound workout on the beach every morning before breakfast.  Also did yoga every night before bed.  Pound was a new and fun challenge...it's choreographed...and I struggled to stay on the beat!  The workouts were challenging but not terribly hard.  I'm not a yoga person but I think it's good for me.  Very fun, inclusive group of ladies!  We snuck in a couple fun activities as well.  4 of us took off one day and spent the day on a catamaran...whale watching, snorkeling, walk on an island...  Katie and I planned a hike at a remote village which required a taxi ride and then a water taxi ride. A waterfall was the goal destination.  Most of the group decided to leave the pool and join us for the day.  It was a huge culture shock for them!  We also planned a group outing on the last night...dinner and a Cirque du Soleil type show on the beach.  It was a fun way to finish the trip.

I'm home.  Tired and very busy!  My ribs are still giving me trouble.  I'm perplexed as they seem to get better and then regress and some things hurt them one time and then not the next.  I'm wondering if it's actually ribs or ???  Diaphragm maybe?  Sometimes just breathing hurts.  May have to find time to have it looked at...it's been a month now.

I had hoped to squeeze in a couple runs while in Mexico but it didn't happen.  We were south of PV on a very narrow, windy road so it wasn't safe to run on the road.  The beach wasn't long enough to actually run on although I did jog a bit before/during our morning workouts.  The daily workouts were pretty much all I was able to do.

I did take the time to meet Janice at the pool later in the morning yesterday.  I got in 1500 yards with some relatively faster stuff at the end.  It felt good.

I have an appointment this morning but the plan is to run this afternoon.

Back to my list of chores...
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Post  ounce on Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:43 pm

Welcome back to the anti-Puerto Vallarta weather!

Ribs.  Weren't you x-rayed for that?  If so, they heal slow, even for pups like Mark.  So, you may be healing some, then an activity might erase the healing.  You also may have irritated the cartilage or other material in between the ribs, as well.

I'd recommend not playing as if you're a 59 year old.  That time has passed!  Wink 

Lord knows if you're not doubled over in pain, that you're probably okay.

So, get back to work.
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Post  nkrichards on Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:33 pm

@ounce wrote:Welcome back to the anti-Puerto Vallarta weather!

Ribs.  Weren't you x-rayed for that?  If so, they heal slow, even for pups like Mark.  So, you may be healing some, then an activity might erase the healing.  You also may have irritated the cartilage or other material in between the ribs, as well.

I'd recommend not playing as if you're a 59 year old.  That time has passed!  Wink 

Lord knows if you're not doubled over in pain, that you're probably okay.

So, get back to work.
Not excruciating pain and no x-rays.  Didn't seem that serious...just annoying.

So I got a bit of an answer today while skiing.  While trying to get up after a fall I had to really engage my core and I felt a muscle spasm...kind of felt like the beginning of a cramp...in the exact area that is sore.  AND I remember feeling it the first day that I was skiing.  So I have a bit more knowledge but still don't know how to prevent/fix the problem...

***

Now more interesting stats and more questions...


  • Tuesday 5.0 @ 11:58 HR 148  About what I expected after a week of no running.


  1. 11:45 HR 142
  2. 12:12 HR 144
  3. 11:58 HR 147
  4. 12:03 HR 152
  5. 11:50 HR 152



  • Wednesday 3.0 @ 10:47 (I think Fast Freddy escaped as this was supposed to be an easy recovery run.  ShockedHR 145  What??  Maybe I just didn't run long enough for the HR drift to kick in completely.


  1. 10:47 HR 136
  2. 10:49 HR 148
  3. 10:49 HR 151



  • Thursday 7.0 @ 12:19 HR 143  Now I'm really confused!!  I definitely ran long enough for the HR drift to kick in but it didn't.  My legs were struggling to cooperate after the previous two days of running but the cardio/breathing effort was manageable.  


  1. 11:37 HR 133
  2. 12:23 HR 142
  3. 12:19 HR 145
  4. 12:28 HR 147
  5. 12:39 HR 146
  6. 12:20 HR 145
  7. 12:25 HR 144


Not that I'm very happy with a 12 minute plus pace but it's what I'm able to do today so I'm going to have to accept it.  Don't tell Mark but I'm beginning to wonder if this slow running is going to transition into something better in the future...will I be able to eventually speed up a bit and keep the HR at a reasonable level.  My days of finishing a long run with an average HR of 165 are probably over. 

Question Question Question
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Post  nkrichards on Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:20 pm

Boy did I wake up stiff and sore...and tired this morning.  I moved to the longer lift at skiing yesterday so fell more...and hard a couple times.  I'm feeling it today.  Nothing serious but I located a couple bruises. 

I promised Marty that we'd get back into doing our workout together each morning so we did.  I actually loosened up and felt better after we worked out.  But I was still tired.  Then I took the time to watch Owen's basketball game.  Pretty comical.

Then it was time for a long run even though I wasn't feeling great.  I knew that my opportunities to get a longer run in and practice my refueling before the half were fast slipping away.  I convinced myself that no matter how slow it was I needed to do it.  I was pleasantly surprised.

10 miles @ 12:01 HR 146

  1. 11:53 HR 138
  2. 12:19 HR 140
  3. 12:08 HR 144
  4. 12:16 HR 146
  5. 12:27 HR 146
  6. 12:16 HR 150 Loop around the house to refuel and hydrate.
  7. 12:08 HT 147  Repeat of mile 1
  8. 12:17 HR 148  Repeat of mile 2
  9. 11:43 HR 149  Repeat of mile 4
  10. 10:44 HR 156  Repeat of mile 5


Not that I'm proud of a 12 minute pace but all things considered I didn't expect it today.  I'm pleased.  Mile 5 was tough.  Not sure if it was because I ran low on fuel or if it was because this is normally my final mile and I knew today that I was only half done.  Was it a physical struggle or a mental struggle...or both?  Anyway once I took the GU and water and headed back out I felt much better.  I was quite surprised that I had the ability to speed up the last couple miles.  I'm assuming it's because I fueled today.  During my 7 miler on Thursday and my 8 miler a couple weeks ago I ran without fuel or water. 

So today's lesson as I prepare for my half next weekend...Start off conservatively and make sure to refuel and hydrate early and often.  I know that my biggest struggle is going to be making sure that I run this event within my current abilities and don't try to race it!!

Sore and tired but feeling better about the event after today's run.
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Post  nkrichards on Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 pm

Whoa was I stiff, sore, and tired on Sunday morning!   What a Face

We did our workout Sunday morning...40 minutes of Cardio and Core.  Then we headed off to church.  The boys came down to fill the wood room for us...and have snacks.  We all had dinner together and the two big boys stayed to watch "Where the Red Fern Grows".  It turned out to be a busier day than I expected but I was able to take it pretty easy.

Still tired this morning but not quite as sore.  We did 35 minutes of Isometrics and then I headed to the pool.  Janice and I got a mile in.  It's a gorgeous day and I'd love to head out for a run....but I'm behind in the office (still)...and also not sure I need an additional activity today.  I'll see how the rest of the day unfolds...

And life goes on...
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Post  ounce on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:23 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:Welcome back to the anti-Puerto Vallarta weather!

Ribs.  Weren't you x-rayed for that?  If so, they heal slow, even for pups like Mark.  So, you may be healing some, then an activity might erase the healing.  You also may have irritated the cartilage or other material in between the ribs, as well.

I'd recommend not playing as if you're a 59 year old.  That time has passed!  Wink 

Lord knows if you're not doubled over in pain, that you're probably okay.

So, get back to work.
Not excruciating pain and no x-rays.  Didn't seem that serious...just annoying.

So I got a bit of an answer today while skiing.  While trying to get up after a fall I had to really engage my core and I felt a muscle spasm...kind of felt like the beginning of a cramp...in the exact area that is sore.  AND I remember feeling it the first day that I was skiing.  So I have a bit more knowledge but still don't know how to prevent/fix the problem...

***

Now more interesting stats and more questions...


  • Tuesday 5.0 @ 11:58 HR 148  About what I expected after a week of no running.


  1. 11:45 HR 142
  2. 12:12 HR 144
  3. 11:58 HR 147
  4. 12:03 HR 152
  5. 11:50 HR 152



  • Wednesday 3.0 @ 10:47 (I think Fast Freddy escaped as this was supposed to be an easy recovery run.  ShockedHR 145  What??  Maybe I just didn't run long enough for the HR drift to kick in completely.


  1. 10:47 HR 136
  2. 10:49 HR 148
  3. 10:49 HR 151



  • Thursday 7.0 @ 12:19 HR 143  Now I'm really confused!!  I definitely ran long enough for the HR drift to kick in but it didn't.  My legs were struggling to cooperate after the previous two days of running but the cardio/breathing effort was manageable.  


  1. 11:37 HR 133
  2. 12:23 HR 142
  3. 12:19 HR 145
  4. 12:28 HR 147
  5. 12:39 HR 146
  6. 12:20 HR 145
  7. 12:25 HR 144


Not that I'm very happy with a 12 minute plus pace but it's what I'm able to do today so I'm going to have to accept it.  Don't tell Mark but I'm beginning to wonder if this slow running is going to transition into something better in the future...will I be able to eventually speed up a bit and keep the HR at a reasonable level.  My days of finishing a long run with an average HR of 165 are probably over. 

Question Question Question
I haven't read your next post, so the ideas in this post may be moot.

Tuesday--yes, I agree.  Your run was clearing out the trash and loosening things up.
Wednesday--I tend to think your mind was set on running just 3 and you let loose some speed.  Your legs were limbered from the day before and ready to go.
Thursday--Your legs were taxed from Wednesday.  Your heart and lungs are more than capable to handle 7 miles, whereas your legs are not.  This is a classic conundrum of mine.  Heart is the first to adapt, then the lungs, then much later, the legs.  After all, the heart doesn't carry any weight.  It just beats.  The lungs have to wait on you to breathe, however it, like the heart, doesn't carry any weight.  So, it's 2nd to adapt.

I've been thinking about your last paragraph, frequently.  Not quite ready to write it down, but between you and me, I think we can create an adjusted method to get faster while not having mad jumps in HR.

I can tell you that your 7 was good for your legs.  Now, if I could figure out how to make the legs a sooner 3rd than a much later 3rd, I could make a ton of money.

Good job.
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Post  ounce on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:46 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Boy did I wake up stiff and sore...and tired this morning.  I moved to the longer lift at skiing yesterday so fell more...and hard a couple times.  I'm feeling it today.  Nothing serious but I located a couple bruises. 

I promised Marty that we'd get back into doing our workout together each morning so we did.  I actually loosened up and felt better after we worked out.  But I was still tired.  Then I took the time to watch Owen's basketball game.  Pretty comical.

Then it was time for a long run even though I wasn't feeling great.  I knew that my opportunities to get a longer run in and practice my refueling before the half were fast slipping away.  I convinced myself that no matter how slow it was I needed to do it.  I was pleasantly surprised.

10 miles @ 12:01 HR 146

  1. 11:53 HR 138
  2. 12:19 HR 140
  3. 12:08 HR 144
  4. 12:16 HR 146
  5. 12:27 HR 146
  6. 12:16 HR 150 Loop around the house to refuel and hydrate.
  7. 12:08 HT 147  Repeat of mile 1
  8. 12:17 HR 148  Repeat of mile 2
  9. 11:43 HR 149  Repeat of mile 4
  10. 10:44 HR 156  Repeat of mile 5


Not that I'm proud of a 12 minute pace but all things considered I didn't expect it today.  I'm pleased.  Mile 5 was tough.  Not sure if it was because I ran low on fuel or if it was because this is normally my final mile and I knew today that I was only half done.  Was it a physical struggle or a mental struggle...or both?  Anyway once I took the GU and water and headed back out I felt much better.  I was quite surprised that I had the ability to speed up the last couple miles.  I'm assuming it's because I fueled today.  During my 7 miler on Thursday and my 8 miler a couple weeks ago I ran without fuel or water. 

So today's lesson as I prepare for my half next weekend...Start off conservatively and make sure to refuel and hydrate early and often.  I know that my biggest struggle is going to be making sure that I run this event within my current abilities and don't try to race it!!

Sore and tired but feeling better about the event after today's run.
YES!
So, you have your base established and as hard as cement.  You are set for your race on Sunday.  The Half, not the 10K.  Your heart, lungs, and legs are ready.  Your legs have passed the threshold where your heart and lungs have been waiting.  That doesn't mean you're legs can go hard on Sunday, but it does mean your base is there to carry you through at a training long run pace on Sunday.  (Oh, you said that in the 2nd to last paragraph.)  So, how does the race elevation compare to your 10 mile?

Do some stretch and trash clearing runs between now and Saturday.  2-4 miles.  Race prepare, even do the workouts with Marty.


Now, let's see if I have to walk back any comments on your next post.
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Post  ounce on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:50 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Whoa was I stiff, sore, and tired on Sunday morning!   What a Face

We did our workout Sunday morning...40 minutes of Cardio and Core.  Then we headed off to church.  The boys came down to fill the wood room for us...and have snacks.  We all had dinner together and the two big boys stayed to watch "Where the Red Fern Grows".  It turned out to be a busier day than I expected but I was able to take it pretty easy.

Still tired this morning but not quite as sore.  We did 35 minutes of Isometrics and then I headed to the pool.  Janice and I got a mile in.  It's a gorgeous day and I'd love to head out for a run....but I'm behind in the office (still)...and also not sure I need an additional activity today.  I'll see how the rest of the day unfolds...

And life goes on...
Hmmm.  Guess we have a TAPER MADNESS thread.
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Post  nkrichards on Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:00 pm

My half is in less than 4 days  What a Face What a Face What a Face  Where did the time go?

I looked at the weather in Hillsboro this morning.  100% chance of .9" of rain...oops that's Saturday.  Race day is Sunday.  Still a 50% chance of rain but only .06"  Low to mid 40's.  I can handle that...

***

Decided it was better to recover and rest than try to make up for missed training so close to race day.  Skipped the run on Monday afternoon.  Isometrics and swimming was enough for the day.

Felt a bit more human on Tuesday morning.  We did a recovery/stretching workout and then I headed to the mountain to ski.  I had really regressed after my lesson last week.  I fell so much and so hard that I became tentative and started sitting back on my skis.  It took most of the lesson to get me back where I was.  On the bright side it was a much slower ski session with only a couple slow motion falls even though the conditions were pretty fast.  I gained some control and felt good about where I was at the end of the lesson.  I did a couple runs on the bunny hill on my own to practice my skills before heading home.  And then I stopped on the way home and rented my kayak for the race.   Laughing

Our workout this morning was called Crucible.  It was a tough one!  Then Janice and I swam a mile with lots of fast intervals.  It felt really good!!

We have company coming for dinner tonight...ugh...
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Post  Mark B on Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:17 am

Wow! Tick-tock, tick-tock! Race day is almost here!

How's the taper madness coming along? bouncebouncebounce

Skipping the run was a good idea. No need to make anything up now. Skiing before a run is a brave thing to do, in my book! Maybe I just crashed more than you do, though. Very Happy

Isn't it funny how the natural instinct to get away from danger (ie. sitting back on your skis) is the ONE MOST DANGEROUS THING you can do to ensure that you have NO CONTROL over your skis? It takes a long time to overcome that urge, but when you do... a whole world of possibilities opens up. Sigh. I miss skiing. But I'm the only one in my family who likes it, and it's crazy expensive now... oh well.

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Post  nkrichards on Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:02 pm

@Mark B wrote:Wow! Tick-tock, tick-tock! Race day is almost here!

How's the taper madness coming along? bouncebouncebounce

Skipping the run was a good idea. No need to make anything up now. Skiing before a run is a brave thing to do, in my book! Maybe I just crashed more than you do, though. Very Happy

Isn't it funny how the natural instinct to get away from danger (ie. sitting back on your skis) is the ONE MOST DANGEROUS THING you can do to ensure that you have NO CONTROL over your skis? It takes a long time to overcome that urge, but when you do... a whole world of possibilities opens up. Sigh. I miss skiing. But I'm the only one in my family who likes it, and it's crazy expensive now... oh well.
No TAPER MADNESS here.   What a Face What a Face  I'm to busy worrying about whether or not I'm going to be able to safely finish the half to worry about silly things like the weather.  I'm only checking it 3 times a day.  Saturday looks terrible which will affect our drive over the mountain.  We've decided to go via the gorge to avoid the blizzard conditions and the ski traffic on Mt. Hood.  Marty is busy and doesn't really have time to go over with me but offered to go...Happy Valentine's Day.  I love you  We'll drop off some things for Katie (she lives near the race venue) and have dessert and a cup of tea with her before retiring to our hotel.  Weather looks better on Sunday.  Chilly but not wet or windy so I'm OK with that.

As far as skiing goes...training for the PPP is more of a priority than the Heartbreaker Half.  In fact if I got injured skiing then I would have a good excuse not to run.   Wink  I'm doing this event to support Dr. B's fundraising and because it's become an annual event for me.  My primary goal this year is to run at an appropriate pace considering my severe lack of training!  I'm not good at self control.

So...I'll get this event under my belt and then return to PPP training...  No plans to become a regular on the mountain...I just want to complete the PPP.

***

We skipped our morning workout on Thursday as Marty had an early meeting in Bend.  I headed out for a run later in the morning.  It was 34 degrees but sunny.  I overdressed.  

5 miles @ 11:19 HR 153  Typical taper run...TO FAST.  Oh well.  It was comforting to realize that I could run more similar to days gone by when I ran everything to fast.  It was also a good reminder that I needed to exert some self control in the early miles of the race.  No harm done.

We did a leg workout this morning...not a real tough workout.  Then it was off to the pool.  Janice and I have been trying to ramp up our yardage and effort.  We were both skeptical about our ability to swim a decent 500 but decided to give it a try...X 4.  Our goal was 2000 yards this morning.  To put this in perspective when we're in good shape we can swim a 500 in 10 minutes.  I haven't done that in a quite some time.  So we took off with a goal to finish in 10:30 or so.  We were both holding a nice pace and got caught up in the challenge.  Janice slowed at the end finishing in 10:15 but I held on to a 9:55 finish.   cheers  We did the second 500 with our paddles to give ourselves a bit of a break.  Janice was tiring but I was curious what I could do.  I finished the 3rd 500 in 9:57.  WoopWoop.  I grabbed my fins for the last 500 and made it an easy effort.  With our 100 yard cool down we got in 2000 yards.  Very encouraging swim.

Tomorrow is the MADras Runners monthly Eagle Bakery run.  I told Janice I was willing to do it the day before my event if we kept it slow and relatively short.  Anything for a free cinnamon roll.

Ultreya...
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Post  ounce on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:06 pm

Yeah, no Taper Madness on the prior post. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes   None.   Laughing Laughing 

Gratz on the swimming Woops!!!  All of your activities sure balances out what your body can handle.  I'm sure if you took up another activity that your body wouldn't bat an eye and just would need to learn the technical things to become good at it, e.g. not skiing on your heels.  You have an overall breath of body endurance because you do so many different things.

I guess I'm doubling my activities, now, with weight lifting.  The gym has a 3 lane pool.  What are the courtesies and manners that are usual for swimming.  I'm not sure if 2 people fit in a lane, as I haven't looked that close.

Best of luck on Sunday, Nancy!  You'll do great and enjoy today's cinnamon roll!
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Post  nkrichards on Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:01 pm

@ounce wrote:Yeah, no Taper Madness on the prior post. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes   None.   Laughing Laughing 

Gratz on the swimming Woops!!!  All of your activities sure balances out what your body can handle.  I'm sure if you took up another activity that your body wouldn't bat an eye and just would need to learn the technical things to become good at it, e.g. not skiing on your heels.  You have an overall breath of body endurance because you do so many different things.

I guess I'm doubling my activities, now, with weight lifting.  The gym has a 3 lane pool.  What are the courtesies and manners that are usual for swimming.  I'm not sure if 2 people fit in a lane, as I haven't looked that close.

Best of luck on Sunday, Nancy!  You'll do great and enjoy today's cinnamon roll!
Nope.  No Taper Madness here.   pale

Good run this morning.  4.35 miles @ 12:14 HR 141.  Probably a bit longer than I needed to run the day before the half but it was a compromise as Janice was hoping for 5 miles.  And the cinnamon rolls were delicious.  

I know I've said this often but I do think a variety of activities is really good.  Weight training and core work in particular are really helpful no matter what other activities you do.  Definitely need to work on my skiing technique  Embarassed  but the strength and cardio that carries over from my other activities has to help.

As far as swimming goes.  It totally depends on how busy the lanes are.  We're lucky in that about half the time we have a lane to ourselves.  If it's busier we split the lane and stay on our own side.  It works fine although I do occasionally breath a bit of water from the other swimmers splashing.  Busy pools require circular swimming in your lane.  This works great if you all swim pretty much the same speed but does not work well for beginners!!  They usually dedicate slow, medium, and fast lanes but it's tough.  If I were swimming in Redmond or Bend I'd be forced to circular swim.

Packing up and heading out shortly...37 degrees, wind 3 mph, 10% chance of rain at the start of the race.  Warms to 43 with winds of 7 mph and clear skies before I finish.  I'm packing clothes in case it's colder or wetter than predicted but I plan to wear shorts, short sleeve shirt plus sleeves, gloves, cap and a buff.  That gives me the option to remove items as I warm up.  

Thinking self control...
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Post  nkrichards on Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:54 pm

Race magic was strong today!!  Or was it all that slow running...

2:21:07 @ 10:47  Pretty proud of that.

Will share details tomorrow.  It was an interesting race...
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Post  ounce on Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:30 pm

Woohoo! Way to go! Splits ought to be interesting to see.

Looking forward to the report. Thanks for the swimming tips, too.
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Post  nkrichards on Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:13 pm

Heart Breaker Half 
2:21:07 @ 10:47  HR avg 156 max 180  Cadence 157  Elevation gain/loss 975'
4/11 AG    128/224 Female   243/363 Overall
          Pace   HR Avg/max  Cadence  Stride  Elevation

  1. 10:32     144/152        159        .95     39/39
  2. 11:06     149/156        156        .92     72/82
  3. 10:58     154/162        158        .93    108/68
  4. 11:56     157/166        156        .87    180/36
  5. 10:25     150/160        158        .98    26/200
  6. 10:53     154/161        157        .94    98/75
  7. 11:14     156/163        157        .91    118/16
  8. 11:03     153/166        157        .93    104/190
  9. 10:37     154/163        156        .98    42/134
  10. 10:23     158/164        157        .99    42/75
  11. 10:39     160/166        156        .97    160/166
  12. 10:18     165/171        159        .99    59/62
  13.  9:54      170/174        159       1.02    42/36

  .14 @8:22     176/180        163       1.22     0/0

So there's the stats.  Not at all what I expected given my lack of training...and the slow speed that I did train at.  As you can see I slowed my pace for the hills.  Also walked through aid stations in miles 2, 4, 7, and 11.  Mile 4 is the hill they call Heart Break hill.

Chilly 37 degrees at the start.  Foggy but no wind or rain...until mile 7 when it rained lightly for about 10 minutes and then cleared.  Plenty warm after the first 5 miles where I removed my gloves and pulled down my buff.  

My goal was to start the race at about a 12:00 pace as that's all I've been doing in training.  I was determined to keep that pace through the first half of the race and then hope I could speed up a bit...I wasn't counting on it.  

Here's how it unfolded.   I tucked myself in behind the 2:30 pacer at the start to make sure I didn't go out to fast.  At the first mile marker I commented that that was a fast mile!  She looked at her watch and announced that we were at faster than a 2:30 pace and stopped.   Shocked  I and others continued on.  I slowed slightly but I figured the damage was done at that point.  I felt OK but I was concerned.  I decided to just run by feel and tried not to look at my pace to much.  I didn't look at my HR at all.  I chatted with other runners along the way.  I was amazed when I realized that I was half way through with an 11:00 pace and feeling fine.  When I finished mile 8 I decided to cautiously speed up a bit...still feeling OK.  Gave it a bit more gas.  Still OK.  Showed off for the photographer in mile 13.  Sprinted the finish on the track and realized later that I passed a lady in my AG on the track.   Laughing

So there it is.  I'm still digesting the results.  It was 10 minutes slower than last year but I can't express enough how amazed I am that I was able to do this with such little run specific training...and feel good during and after the race.  Yes, I'm tired today...and a bit stiff and sore...but nothing compared to how I normally feel after a race.  Guess I should have pushed harder?  Or maybe I should just learn to enjoy running this way...

Interesting to look at the cadence & stride data also.  I don't normally pay any attention to anything other than pace and HR.

I'm going to dig up race stats from previous years and also take a look at some of my training stats.  I'm not in BQ marathon shape by any stretch of the imagination but does this indicate that it's possible??  No...I gave up on that dream didn't I...

Did I mention how amazed/confused I am by these results?
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Post  ounce on Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:36 pm

Nancy, you're more balanced overall, physically, than certainly anybody on these boards, even Miche1e.  You have a total body endurance, which is do to the breadth of activities that you do.  If I knew of a message board of similar people to you, I would recommend that you go there because we are not doing anything for you to advance your endurance.  I'm not trying to push you away, but you've more than outgrown us. 

Every activity you do compliments the other activities.  There's nothing you're doing to keep you from running marathons, full triathlons, or hiking the Pacific Coast Trail other than time and convincing yourself and family that you can.  The body has overall endurance. 

I don't remember what your regimen was that got you the BQ and to run Boston, but I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't have the breadth you have now.

RE your race.  When your cadence doesn't fluctuate over the life of the race, you're capable of running faster.  You weren't bleeding time.  Every thing except pace and elevation were really consistent.  I imagine you never thought you were sandbagging, but you were and understandably so.  You were shocked that you were doing that good.  Why tempt fate? 

Well done.  This race is a watershed moment.
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Post  Mark B on Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:58 am

Hey now! Don't push Nancy away. We need her for inspiration as much as she needs our wacky banter! Which I hope is a lot.

I think what you learned this cycle was the power of low-intensity running (yes, "slow," but it sounds better my way) to build the energy-producing system in your body that you can tap into to run a LOT faster on race day. Train slow. Race fast. Long Slow Sally makes Fast Freddie a happy racer. Very Happy  

Extra benefit: You have built such a solid base of fitness, thanks to all your activities, that you're in the enviable position of being able to "top off the tank," so to speak, and decide to do a race on short notice and do well with limited race-specific workouts. 

It's a very good thing. Did you ever imagine this as you were recovering from your cardiac event?

I never doubted it for a second.

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Post  nkrichards on Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:22 pm

@ounce wrote:Nancy, you're more balanced overall, physically, than certainly anybody on these boards, even Miche1e.  You have a total body endurance, which is do to the breadth of activities that you do.  If I knew of a message board of similar people to you, I would recommend that you go there because we are not doing anything for you to advance your endurance.  I'm not trying to push you away, but you've more than outgrown us. 

Every activity you do compliments the other activities.  There's nothing you're doing to keep you from running marathons, full triathlons, or hiking the Pacific Coast Trail other than time and convincing yourself and family that you can.  The body has overall endurance. 

I don't remember what your regimen was that got you the BQ and to run Boston, but I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't have the breadth you have now.

RE your race.  When your cadence doesn't fluctuate over the life of the race, you're capable of running faster.  You weren't bleeding time.  Every thing except pace and elevation were really consistent.  I imagine you never thought you were sandbagging, but you were and understandably so.  You were shocked that you were doing that good.  Why tempt fate? 

Well done.  This race is a watershed moment.
Thanks Doug.  I do think that my cross training helps my running...especially the core/strength work that's become a big part of my routine.  I'll admit that part of the reason I've branched out is because of my frustration at not being able to return to my pre-cardiac event running speed...even if you adjust for age.  It's not as frustrating when I'm doing something new and don't have a previous time to compare to.  And I enjoy the new challenges...but I'm a runner at heart and I do wonder if I have the physical ability and just don't have the mental commitment  to run like I used to.  

So...the question is...do I continue to "sandbag" in new/varied events or do I put my mind to it and try to run a decent marathon?  I don't know the answer to that question yet.
@Mark B wrote:Hey now! Don't push Nancy away. We need her for inspiration as much as she needs our wacky banter! Which I hope is a lot.

I think what you learned this cycle was the power of low-intensity running (yes, "slow," but it sounds better my way) to build the energy-producing system in your body that you can tap into to run a LOT faster on race day. Train slow. Race fast. Long Slow Sally makes Fast Freddie a happy racer. Very Happy  

Extra benefit: You have built such a solid base of fitness, thanks to all your activities, that you're in the enviable position of being able to "top off the tank," so to speak, and decide to do a race on short notice and do well with limited race-specific workouts. 

It's a very good thing. Did you ever imagine this as you were recovering from your cardiac event?

I never doubted it for a second.
Don't worry Mark.  I'm not going anywhere.  I'm a runner at heart and always will be.  I'm enjoying what I'm doing now...but there is this nagging desire to give marathon running another shot.  And I enjoy the company here.

I am finally accepting the benefits of "low-intensity" running and realize that if I'm going to train for a marathon in the future it's going to have to be part of the plan.

Did I ever think I'd be doing the things I'm doing today?  Nope!  Not before and especially not after my cardiac event.  Thanks for the confidence.

***

So I'm continuing to analyze my training as I try to choose future goals.

  • I looked back at my Jan/Feb training for the last 4 years as I prepped for the Heartbreaker Half.  I actually had similar overall mileage in 2019 but it was all low-intensity.  My fastest run was 3 miles @ 10:47.  Most runs were at/over 12:00.  In contrast the 3 previous years I was running lots of high intensity stuff...intervals and tempo runs.  Race pace was much closer to my training pace...slightly faster but not much especially when compared to 2019 where I ran well over a minute faster than my average training pace on race day.  Looks like I'm going to have to continue to include low-intensity training in my future plans.  It also allows me to run more and do other things without over stressing my body.
  • Doug asked about my training during the build up to my BQ marathon and that got me thinking about my running history.  I got off the couch in January of 2007 at the age of 49 and trained for my first 5K.  It took me nearly 2 years to build up to my first half marathon and another year to prepare for my first marathon.  I found Hal Higdon's website soon after I started running and utilized his plans and his blog as I moved forward.  I trained for my first marathon using his Novice plan (20 weeks of running 3 days per week).  I continued to use his plan as a base for my training plans but tweaked it slightly each time.  I read about Run Less Run Faster and incorporated intervals, tempo runs, and added in an extra long run.  Each attempt I got a bit closer to my BQ time.  A friend introduced me to her friend/coach in Bend as I was gearing up for marathon training in 2013.  I scheduled a couple sessions with her where she analyzed my weaknesses and gave me some core/strength exercises to do 3 days per week.  I was already doing some cross training...swimming and biking...but not tons.  She made a few minor changes to my training plan...adding more intervals to each interval session...but the biggest change she made was insisting that I warm up and cool down before every run.  This added significant mileage to my weekly total even though I continued to run only 3 days per week.  And I qualified with room to spare.  The take away for me was that having a strong body/core and increasing my mileage was what facilitated the improvement I saw.


I know everyone is different and I need to try and figure out what works best for my...and fits into my busy lifestyle.  I do think that if I'm going to successfully train for another marathon that I'll need to continue to keep my body/core strong and run more overall but make sure I include low-intensity training (especially early in the plan) and intervals and tempo runs.  I do like the looks of the Hansen method and Michele recommends it.  They have you running 6 days a week which may be a stretch for me.  I'm not sure how much cross training I can do in place of those extra running days without compromising the plan.  That may take some experimentation...maybe during training for a couple goal race half marathons?

Still thinking...and happy to continue training for the PPP as I'm deciding.

Speaking of PPP training.  I signed up for a private ski lesson with the instructor I liked best during my first 5 lessons.  I had a great day on the mountain on Thursday and made a lot of progress.  I'm scheduled for another lesson with him on Tuesday.

Marty and I are also back to our strength workouts but only 3 or 4 days per week.  We'll see what we're able to maintain as we get busier on the farm.

I swam 3 times last week even though Janice is out of town.  I needed some time to recover from my half and swimming is a great recovery workout.  No running yet...

Family days both yesterday and today...
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Post  Mark B on Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:10 pm

The thing that stands out to me in your successes is that you reached out and engaged the services of a coach. So many of us are self-coached, which is probably like what they say about someone who acts as their own lawyer (they have a fool as a client). The whole n=1 experimentation is fun and geeky, but getting an experienced coach eliminates a whole lot of trial-and-error and get you to your goal -- or help you discover a goal you didn't realize you could achieve. 

So going forward, and thinking about re-entering the marathon world again, would you consider going with a coach again? I guess that question might depend on your goal: do you just want to run another marathon, or are you wanting to BQ again? Or something else? 

Either way, keep up that core work! It keeps me inspired to maybe start dusting off the old exercise ball at some point. cyclops

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Post  ounce on Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:52 am

Tactically, I think you're going to need to do some more half marathons, in order to get your family to buy into you doing marathons again.  "She's been doing 3 or 4 halves, plus PPP, and still working out with Dad.  She's probably ready for a marathon.  She wants to."

I'd even throw in a 50K where you ran 17-26 miles of it and walked the rest. Or run at least more than a half, so they can see progression and get comfortable.  (Maybe even con Mark into training for a 50K with you!) Twisted Evil

Your heart rate will go down, if your family is on board and even enthusiastic.  Just make it a 'close by' location, so they can cheer you on.  Then, your 2nd or 3rd marathon would be Houston, where you'll BQ.   Idea 

Just a thought.
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Post  nkrichards on Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:49 am

@Mark B wrote:The thing that stands out to me in your successes is that you reached out and engaged the services of a coach. So many of us are self-coached, which is probably like what they say about someone who acts as their own lawyer (they have a fool as a client). The whole n=1 experimentation is fun and geeky, but getting an experienced coach eliminates a whole lot of trial-and-error and get you to your goal -- or help you discover a goal you didn't realize you could achieve. 

So going forward, and thinking about re-entering the marathon world again, would you consider going with a coach again? I guess that question might depend on your goal: do you just want to run another marathon, or are you wanting to BQ again? Or something else? 

Either way, keep up that core work! It keeps me inspired to maybe start dusting off the old exercise ball at some point. cyclops
Good catch Mark.  I hadn't thought about the coaching aspect.  I'm paying for ski lessons...why not pay for help getting me to my running goals once I figure out what those goals are.
@ounce wrote:Tactically, I think you're going to need to do some more half marathons, in order to get your family to buy into you doing marathons again.  "She's been doing 3 or 4 halves, plus PPP, and still working out with Dad.  She's probably ready for a marathon.  She wants to."

I'd even throw in a 50K where you ran 17-26 miles of it and walked the rest. Or run at least more than a half, so they can see progression and get comfortable.  (Maybe even con Mark into training for a 50K with you!) Twisted Evil

Your heart rate will go down, if your family is on board and even enthusiastic.  Just make it a 'close by' location, so they can cheer you on.  Then, your 2nd or 3rd marathon would be Houston, where you'll BQ.   Idea 

Just a thought.
I like the way you think Doug...well except for the 50K...don't think that's on my bucket list.  But I shouldn't say never.  I'm doing a lot of things that I didn't expect to be doing earlier in my life.

Half marathons are in my plan as I move forward.  They will help me decide if/when another marathon is doable.

Would be fun to come to Houston to race but I thought it was pretty tough to get in.  We'll see...I'm not opposed to traveling to a good event...

***

Brief update before I head out to drive tractor this morning.  

I had another downhill ski lesson yesterday.  After a warm up run on Marshmallow the instructor took me over to the western side of the mountain.  Getting there was slightly challenging...and then we skied a couple intermediate runs.  They were right on the edge of my comfort zone.  I had a couple shaky moments but made it down safely.  Felt good about my progress.

Then I decided I better figure out the cross country ski leg.  I headed over to the Nordic center and they had an instructor available for a lesson.  I've cross country skied a few times but it's probably been 10 years ago and I definitely never mastered it.  My legs were tired but I figured I better do it.  I can't drive to the mountain to often...it's a 1 1/2 hour drive.  I'm going to ski classic.  They say that skate ski is faster but not if you can't do it!  I've never been good at that motion...even as a child...and I don't have time to learn it.  So I rented my skis and boots and we walked down the hill to a safe place for an introduction.  Within 60 seconds I fell hard on my butt!!!!  Made my eyes water for a couple seconds.  The rest of the lesson went well.  I felt good about the flats and conquered the uphills.  Downhills were a challenge.  I took a couple falls but nothing serious.  Of course we were on the beginner trails and the event is on intermediate trails with a short section (downhill) on an advanced trail.   Shocked  I don't care about speed but I do need to practice enough to get down that section safely.

I got really sore during my drive home.  Took some Advil but I'm still pretty sore...it's amazing how often we use the muscles in our butt!!  I don't think it's anything serious but it is going to take some time to mend.  I landed on my tail bone but don't think I cracked it or anything like that.  Legs...and entire body are tired/sore but that's to be expected after 2 hours of Alpine skiing followed by 2 hours of cross country skiing.

Will spend my "rest" day in the tractor and then I have an appointment for my annual physical this afternoon.

Life goes on...
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Post  ounce on Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:30 pm

Well, the 50K idea was just perception. The last one I did, i ran 10 miles and walked the rest.

That's really cool on your ski lessons and your score tootsie. Going from just skiing to CC sking in 1 lesson is very nice.

As far as Houston, it's not tough to get into at all.
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Post  Mark B on Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:19 am

Ooo! Cross country skiing after downhill lessons? That's a daring thing to attempt. Glad you didn't pull something when you did that butt-plant! 

I hacked around the mountain for years before taking lessons, and I was amazed at how much easier it made skiing -- and how much more fun. I'm glad you're getting a chance to experience it now.

Cross country is a totally different animal. I did it a little. Flat and uphill isn't bad. Downhill is tricky, since all the things they tell you for downhill skiing pretty much doesn't apply. Whee!

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