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Building A Better Bumblebee

+11
Michele "1L" Keane
Julie
Dave P
mul21
nkrichards
Mike MacLellan
T Miller
Nick Morris
Tim C
Tom H
mountandog
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Building A Better Bumblebee - Page 20 Empty Re: Building A Better Bumblebee

Post  Mark B Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:45 pm

Calling all armchair running coaches: Help me plan my comeback!

Here's the deal: I'm going to go from not having much free time this summer to having an insane amount of time alone once school starts. As in, I'm flying solo from 6:25 a.m. until I go to work or the family comes home from school.

I have no races planned. My goal is to build a big base, stretching out my endurance and trying to get a little more speed. That way, when a race strikes my fancy, I'm not trying to cram everything into a training cycle.

I have everything I need fairly close: Flattish roads, rolling hills on roads, trails in the woods nearby where I can do lots of loops, and other longer trails less than an hour away. There's even a couple of tracks. Heck, I even have treadmill.

A quick look at how my week will look:
Monday: About seven hours of unsupervised time. (My regular day off.)
Tuesday: About two hours before work.
Wednesday: Same.
Thursday: About six hours before going to work.
Friday: Same as Thursday
Saturday: Work at 2. (This has usually been my rest day, because I get sleep-deprived doing night shifts and getting up at 5:30 a.m. after a couple of days..)
Sunday: Day off from work. Have often met up early with a friend to run a medium distance. But this is my only full day with the family, so I don't want to take too much time away from them. I hope to be able to do something with Alita, too, as she gets ready for a 6-hour run in the late spring. So, maybe up to a few hours.

That's a lot of available time (not counting weird band parent responsibilities), so the immediate risk is me getting carried away and trying to fill it with too much running too soon.

Also: I'm shifting back to shoes now (my sandals experiment was fun but it didn't really help my form as much as I thought it would), though I still want to do a short barefoot run every week. And if time allows, I'll probably also try to go for a short walk at work when I have a day shift.

I know I also need to get back to doing strength/core work. Gotta get those glutes and calves strong. (Working questions: How many days per week? How much? On a rest day, or not? Before or after running?)

What I think I need to do is work up a framework/schedule for a week that'll make sure I don't neglect a needed component of my training and just focus on one thing. A lot of miles will still be at a low HR, but not all of them.

I'm sure I can come up with something, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

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Post  nkrichards Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:10 pm

Is it raining there yet?  I just hope we get some of the predicted rain and not all the predicted high winds.

I'm not sure I have a lot of input for your training plan but I will pass on the advice that I received from a coach a couple years ago regarding when to do core work.  I was doing 3 quality runs per week and my easier days were cross training...swimming and/or biking.  She said to do my core work after my runs.  She didn't want me doing it before I ran which makes sense.  She also didn't want me doing it on my easier days as she wanted to make sure I recovered well.  I was doing a mixture of core and strength and it was tough to do after I'd completed a hard run but I did as much as I could and ended up with a very successful training cycle.

Anxious to hear what advice you get here and looking forward to following your progress.
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Post  ounce Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:39 pm

It's late in the day, so I'll tell you the first thing that popped in my mind.  Play Bingo and take Fluff for walks.

Maybe I'll have better thoughts tomorrow, but don't hold your breath.
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Post  Mark B Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:44 am

nkrichards wrote:Is it raining there yet?  I just hope we get some of the predicted rain and not all the predicted high winds.

I'm not sure I have a lot of input for your training plan but I will pass on the advice that I received from a coach a couple years ago regarding when to do core work.  I was doing 3 quality runs per week and my easier days were cross training...swimming and/or biking.  She said to do my core work after my runs.  She didn't want me doing it before I ran which makes sense.  She also didn't want me doing it on my easier days as she wanted to make sure I recovered well.  I was doing a mixture of core and strength and it was tough to do after I'd completed a hard run but I did as much as I could and ended up with a very successful training cycle.

Anxious to hear what advice you get here and looking forward to following your progress.

We got sprinkled on early this morning, but the much-anticipated rain is still anticipated.

It'd better show up.  Suspect

Your coach makes a good point about recovery. Make the hard days hard, easy days easy. I'm playing around with some ideas along those lines and will post them shortly.

I'm looking forward to hearing different ideas. I've been doing things more or less the same way for a number of years now, and maybe there's something I've been missing that someone else can see.

ounce wrote:It's late in the day, so I'll tell you the first thing that popped in my mind.  Play Bingo and take Fluff for walks.

Maybe I'll have better thoughts tomorrow, but don't hold your breath.

Bingo, maybe (we prefer Exploding Kittens). But Fluff for walks? Eep.

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Post  Mark B Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:02 am

As promised, here's what has to be the roughest outline possible, based on the time I'll have available on any given day, overlain with the old hard/easy principle.

Monday: 7 hours available HARD
Tuesday: 90—120 minutes available EASY
Wednesday: 90—120 minutes available HARD
Thursday: 5-6 hours available EASY
Friday: 5-6 hours available HARD
Saturday: Would rather rest REST
Sunday: 1-2 hours  early, more later EASY

That's pretty straightforward, based off the fact that the most time I have to run is on Monday, which makes it the best day for a long run. The hard/easy sequence follows naturally from there.

Filling in the blanks is where it gets tricky and stress-inducing. More on that, later.

One note: When I did my fitness test earlier this year, the tester gave me a big package that had a totally different approach to fitness training. I think it was based on the theories of a coach named Joe Friel (who also apparently co-founded TrainingPeaks). It had a sample plan with different workouts in different weeks. It looked horribly complicated to me with a MAXIMIZE YOUR PERFORMANCE! RACE STRONG FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!! mindset that seemed oriented more toward achievement-seeking cyclists and tri folk than the likes of me, so I ignored it.

Maybe I'll go find it and take a look. Maybe there's still something in there that'd be useful.

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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:06 pm

Ok, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth:

Mon - Long run
Tues - Recovery
Wed - Off - gym work, glutes, core, yoga whatever works
Thurs - track/speed or LT
Fri - medium long run (10-12)
Sat - Off - glutes, core, etc. at home
Sun - Easy

If you want to run 6 instead of 5 days per week, then Tues would be medium long and Wed would be recovery.
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Post  Mark B Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:28 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Ok, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth:

Mon - Long run
Tues - Recovery
Wed - Off - gym work, glutes, core, yoga whatever works
Thurs - track/speed or LT
Fri - medium long run (10-12)
Sat - Off - glutes, core, etc. at home
Sun - Easy

If you want to run 6 instead of 5 days per week, then Tues would be medium long and Wed would be recovery.

Thanks, Michele! Looks interesting, practical and a little challenging.

The phrase "track/speed or LT" is slightly terrifying, but just what I need to see.  

---

BTW, the rain did come -- more than we've had since May -- but it came in one giant thunderstorm at about 4 o'clock in the morning. Most of the rest of the day was depressingly dry, and unusually windy. Lots of downed trees and power lines. Still, it's a start. Maybe autumn will arrive, after all.

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Post  ounce Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:15 pm

Run 20 miles a week, your choice as to how.  Adopt a bicycle, buy a helmet, and ride it an hour to start.  Lift weights and do yoga.  Rollerblade.  Variety, until you schedule a race.

Now drop and give me $20.
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Post  Mark B Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:55 pm

ounce wrote:Run 20 miles a week, your choice as to how.  Adopt a bicycle, buy a helmet, and ride it an hour to start.  Lift weights and do yoga.  Rollerblade.  Variety, until you schedule a race.

Now drop and give me $20.

I have a helmet and a bike but it is gathering dust in the garage. It's a horrible hybrid road/trail bike that has the disadvantages of each with the benefits of neither -- I can't stand to ride it. I used to ride my old road bike (An old Schwinn Le Tour. Ah, such a great bike - it fit me like a glove - why did I get rid of it?) a LOT. And I was actually pretty good at it before people actually were "into" cycling as a hobby. Funky feet apparently don't come into play so much on the bike. Even so -- and maybe because of that -- I've been making a point of avoiding cycling. Don't want to get sucked into such an expensive, time-consuming and expensive hobby. Did I mention it's hideously expensive? Yeah. That's a problem. Besides, I'd look stupid in spandex.

But other than opening that gaping wound (oh, why did I get rid of that bike?), great suggestions! Thanks. Approval

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Post  mul21 Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:05 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Ok, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth:

Mon - Long run
Tues - Recovery
Wed - Off - gym work, glutes, core, yoga whatever works
Thurs - track/speed or LT
Fri - medium long run (10-12)
Sat - Off - glutes, core, etc. at home
Sun - Easy

If you want to run 6 instead of 5 days per week, then Tues would be medium long and Wed would be recovery.

This Michele person seems to know what she's talking about.  You should listen to her.  And, as an aside, those 3 hard days you mentioned above is too many if you ask me.
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Post  Mark B Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:30 pm

mul21 wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Ok, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth:

Mon - Long run
Tues - Recovery
Wed - Off - gym work, glutes, core, yoga whatever works
Thurs - track/speed or LT
Fri - medium long run (10-12)
Sat - Off - glutes, core, etc. at home
Sun - Easy

If you want to run 6 instead of 5 days per week, then Tues would be medium long and Wed would be recovery.

This Michele person seems to know what she's talking about.  You should listen to her.  And, as an aside, those 3 hard days you mentioned above is too many if you ask me.

I think you are right about that Michele person. She appears to have some experience in this area. Smile

As far as the three HARD workouts go, I probably shouldn't have used all caps. They were only meant to mean workouts that were relatively harder than the easy ones. Even so, you make a good point. I could easily set myself up for problems if I locked my brain into a rigid "you MUST follow an easy with a hard!" routine. And as exciting as it might be to explore the consequences of a totally new type of mistake, I think I'd just rather remain intact enough to keep running.

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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:22 pm

Mark B wrote:
mul21 wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Ok, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth:

Mon - Long run
Tues - Recovery
Wed - Off - gym work, glutes, core, yoga whatever works
Thurs - track/speed or LT
Fri - medium long run (10-12)
Sat - Off - glutes, core, etc. at home
Sun - Easy

If you want to run 6 instead of 5 days per week, then Tues would be medium long and Wed would be recovery.

This Michele person seems to know what she's talking about.  You should listen to her.  And, as an aside, those 3 hard days you mentioned above is too many if you ask me.

I think you are right about that Michele person. She appears to have some experience in this area. Smile

As far as the three HARD workouts go, I probably shouldn't have used all caps. They were only meant to mean workouts that were relatively harder than the easy ones. Even so, you make a good point. I could easily set myself up for problems if I locked my brain into a rigid "you MUST follow an easy with a hard!" routine. And as exciting as it might be to explore the consequences of a totally new type of mistake, I think I'd just rather remain intact enough to keep running.
Thanks all.  I tried to use your time schedule as a guide for the workouts that you could accommodate that day.
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Post  Mark B Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:42 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:
Mark B wrote:
mul21 wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Ok, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth:

Mon - Long run
Tues - Recovery
Wed - Off - gym work, glutes, core, yoga whatever works
Thurs - track/speed or LT
Fri - medium long run (10-12)
Sat - Off - glutes, core, etc. at home
Sun - Easy

If you want to run 6 instead of 5 days per week, then Tues would be medium long and Wed would be recovery.

This Michele person seems to know what she's talking about.  You should listen to her.  And, as an aside, those 3 hard days you mentioned above is too many if you ask me.

I think you are right about that Michele person. She appears to have some experience in this area. Smile

As far as the three HARD workouts go, I probably shouldn't have used all caps. They were only meant to mean workouts that were relatively harder than the easy ones. Even so, you make a good point. I could easily set myself up for problems if I locked my brain into a rigid "you MUST follow an easy with a hard!" routine. And as exciting as it might be to explore the consequences of a totally new type of mistake, I think I'd just rather remain intact enough to keep running.
Thanks all.  I tried to use your time schedule as a guide for the workouts that you could accommodate that day.

That was a big help. I have often tended to start with a plan first and then try to cram it into the time I have available. It can get a little messy at times. I like your approach of starting with the time available and going from there. Thanks again.

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Post  nkrichards Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:49 am

If spandex is keeping you off the bike I found the solution.  Mountain bikers wear decent looking shorts with a liner...much better looking.  I happily retired my spandex.  But that doesn't solve the problem of you just not liking your new bike.

Are you taking advantage of the cooler weather to run or spending time with family as summer winds down?
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Post  Mark B Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:25 am

nkrichards wrote:If spandex is keeping you off the bike I found the solution.  Mountain bikers wear decent looking shorts with a liner...much better looking.  I happily retired my spandex.  But that doesn't solve the problem of you just not liking your new bike.

Are you taking advantage of the cooler weather to run or spending time with family as summer winds down?

I think the Spandex® is probably the least of my issues with cycling. I was spoiled by a bike years ago that felt like an extension of my body. My current bike is about as far from that as you can get. And have you seen how much good bikes cost these days?!? Holy cow.

What a huge change in the weather! It was in the upper 40s this morning when I took Alec to school. Quite a difference from the rest of the summer. I hope to get out there soon and enjoy it.

Our summer sort of wrapped up a couple of weeks ago when Alec started band camp. It's been busy-busy-busy, and it's getting busier. School started this week. That means the house clears out of everybody but me and the cats by 6:30 a.m. Quite a change.

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Post  Mark B Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:07 pm

Barefoot Run: 30 minutes (2.27 miles)

Weather: Cool and sunny with some puffy clouds. 56° Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T. Fuel: Breakfast, no coffee*.

It was the second day of school, and a night shift, so there was no way to justify not trying to get out -- if only to kill some of the time I have to myself now. Besides, I only ran three times in August, so I need to start up again before I lose all my fitness.

I may have been too late. This was one of the more labored runs I've done, and I cut it off at 30 minutes because my HR kept drifting up too high. It was unusually sluggish to drop even when I did a walking cool down. Hm.

I went barefoot, and I can safely say that I'll be putting the barefoot emphasis behind me for the time being. Sure, I may do a short jaunt from time to time, but I think I need to largely eliminate the distraction of pebbles and sticks so I can work on other parts of my running. Especially now, I need to work on easing myself back into the rhythm of running without adding extra difficulty.

Started off running without a warmup (last time I'll do that for a while), walked last 5 minutes. Average HR: 129

*-Yes, no coffee. After breakfast/coffee yesterday, I had a lot of acid in my stomach. I experimented this morning by not drinking coffee first thing, and noticed no acid sensation. I took a slug a bit later, and it was like drinking battery acid. Well, crap. It's quite a longstanding habit, but if it bugs my guts, it seems wise to give it up. Or at least try. Heck, it might ease up the palpitations, too.

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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:02 pm

We just got summer - so now is my turn to hate you guys!  It is 90F right now.  Died at 11 out of 12 miles yesterday in my 12 miler - it was 78F at 8:30 am.   

As for the bike thing, I hear ya!
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Post  Mark B Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:16 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:We just got summer - so now is my turn to hate you guys!  It is 90F right now.  Died at 11 out of 12 miles yesterday in my 12 miler - it was 78F at 8:30 am.   

As for the bike thing, I hear ya!

Oh, that just sounds awful. Bring on the fall!

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Post  Mark B Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:27 am

Getting back into the swing of things, s-l-o-w-l-y.

Low HR Run: 30 minutes (about 2 miles)

Weather: Fall-like outside (low clouds, 46°), 68° inside. Gear: Altra Instinct 1.5s, shorts, T (shed); Fuel: Breakfast with one cup coffee.

I took to the treadmill this morning, so I could continue to ease back into running and test out the Altras I've been wearing casually off and on for more than a year now to see if they'll work for running.

My body is still trying to adjust to the new school year schedule (work until 10:30-11 p.m., come home, go to bed, get up at 5:30 a.m.), so I wasn't surprised that my start-up HR was notably higher than I'd like. I started off walking, then eased up into a run -- my HR jumped up faster than I'd like -- and I kept slowing the TM down to keep at least close to my target of about 130 bpm.

I'd planned to do at least 30 minutes total with the option to go longer if I felt like it, but it seemed pretty clear that 30 minutes was going to be plenty. I think the speed got down to 13:38/mi before I hit time for my cooldown walk. (I'd started at a 12:00/mi pace.)

Seems like the "easing in" concept is going to be my plan for the time being.

Good news: I think the shoes will work out nicely. They felt nice and familiar, which makes sense, considering how many miles I've put in this model of shoe (1,064 miles in two earlier pair). I know I'll have to find a new shoe someday, but I'm content to wait if I can.

Walked first and last 5 minutes. Average HR for entire run: 121

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Post  Mark B Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:21 am

Trail Run: 3.1 miles

Weather: Cool and clear. 51 degrees. Gear: Altra Lone Peaks, shorts, T, jacket (shed). Fuel: Post-breakfast (w/coffee)

It was a beautiful morning, so I decided to see if I could see what the sunrise looked like in my local patch of forest. I made it out just in time to see the sun come up through the trees, which gave me an excuse to pause and let my HR recover while taking a couple of photos.

Building A Better Bumblebee - Page 20 12006510
Peekaboo...

Building A Better Bumblebee - Page 20 11958110
I see you!


I went by HR, mostly, though there were a few downhill sections where my legs simply wanted to GO, and I let them loose. It jacked my HR a bit, but I made a point of recovering after my frolics. When I hit the last big downhill, my legs REALLY wanted to go, so I cut loose and got down into the 7s. It was the fastest I've gone in a while, and it felt like I was flying. It was a hoot!

Walked first and last 5 minutes Average HR for entire run: 131

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Post  nkrichards Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:18 pm

Wow...that run sounds like one of the reasons that we all do this.  I think I sometimes get to worried about the training and my goals to just enjoy the experience.  Sounds like you nailed it on this run!
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Post  Mark B Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:25 pm

nkrichards wrote:Wow...that run sounds like one of the reasons that we all do this.  I think I sometimes get to worried about the training and my goals to just enjoy the experience.  Sounds like you nailed it on this run!

Thanks! And it's funny you mention that, Nancy, because I've been reflecting on what has motivated me to run over the years. I lost a bit of enthusiasm over the past few months, and I've been going back to my roots and remembering what gets me out the door.

I'm realizing that, for me, the motivation hasn't always been pursing achievements, either speed or distance. Those things can be fun and provide a big sense of satisfaction, to be sure, but I thinking my best moments tend to happen when I'm just out there, going with the flow and taking it all in.

Because of that, I'm trying to approach my runs are more of explorations than training. If there are "workouts," they serve the greater purpose of being able to explore. It seems like a good plan for the time being.


Last edited by Mark B on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Mark B Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:27 pm

Walk: 2.3 miles

Weather: Sunny, pleasant. 70°

Work calmed down enough today for me to take a walk during lunch. It was nice getting away (it's been more hectic than usual with my boss on vacation) and just move. It's an important part of keeping me sane. :-)

Also, I also did some core work this morning (1x40 each of clamshells, side leg lifts and leg circles, plus 1x50 bridges). I've really lapsed in that area, and I can feel the difference.

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Post  Mark B Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:22 pm

Run-out-of-gas-run: 4.54 miles (2.4 of them walking)

Weather: Sunny, mild, muggy. 58° Gear: Altra Instincts, shorts, T. Fuel: Regular breakfast and coffee. Nothing during but could have used it, maybe...

Well, Didn't expect that. I went out for a 60-minute low HR run, wanting to reacquaint my body to a steady pace and see how it felt to run in shoes on the roads. It's been a while.

It was weird. I started off okay, but too fast, and then I wasn't able to slow enough to get my HR down to where I wanted. I shrugged it off and allowed a slightly higher effort level as I progressed to my turnaround point 29 minutes out. (I give myself an extra minute to return to account for fade.) I ran back another half mile or so and then completely ran out of gas. No will to run whatsoever. I shrugged that off, too, and commenced walking... but it felt like a long walk home.

What the heck happened?

Average HR for entire time out there: 117

(ps. The shoes felt awkward and hot. Funny how they feel natural on trails, but on roads... not so much.)

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Post  Mark B Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:42 am

TreadHill Run: 30 minutes w/20 @ 6% grade

Indoors, about 70° Gear: Altras, shorts. Fuel: Regular breakfast and coffee

After yesterday's collapse, I decided to adopt a "less is more" approach for the time being and cut back until my body adjusts to regular activity and the new sleep (deprived) cycle. I forgot that whole lack of sleep factor when I was looking forward to the "regular" school year schedule.

Today, I decided to do what I call my "treadhill" workout, but with a twist. Earlier this year, I cranked the slope to 8% and ran a series of repeats with walking cooldowns at the same elevation. Today, I set the slope to 6% but maintained that steady state for the whole session. Sort of a hill-tempo approach, I suppose. (I think I like it better.)

It went well. My HR rose slowly throughout my 20 minutes of climbing but never got out of the 140s. I set the speed for 15/mi, which seemed like the right pace for now. It got a bit more difficult at the end, so I was glad to end it, but it never felt hard. It'll be interesting to see how I progress in these types of workouts. I'm guessing the best approach over time will be to increase distance first, then maybe pace and/or incline.

And yes, I just wrote "workout." I know I love just getting out there and moving, but I also understand that these sorts of workouts are the price of admission to a world of running bliss.

Walked first and last 5 minutes at a 0% incline. Average HR for entire workout: 128

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