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Term Limits?

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Post  Mark B on Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:14 am

Plan looks diabolical, but solid. Just listen to the *rest* of your body as you ramp it up. Your heart may be "go-go-go!" but all the connective tissue needs to be brought along slowly so they don't go "no-no-no!"

Your new Gadget looks good. Hopefully it works better than El Cheapo. 

Weird about the dental work. Why are they so concerned about extractions or oral surgery?

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Post  ounce on Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:24 am

I don't know what to call this 'rebuilt and improved' running era of mine, but it's here.  Maybe it started on August 21, when the stent was installed, and this is the 3rd stage (2nd stage being the walking).

It was 75 degrees, this morning, with a dew point of 74 and no breeze.  I was so pleased to be able to re-start, but I was curious how the legs were going to respond...tired, put upon, frisky, or just another running day.

3 miles, 42:15, 14:05 pace, 138 avg bpm, 161 avg adjusted cadence, 0.72 m avg stride length
1.  14:21, 160 spm, 138 bpm taken at 0.97 miles, 70 sl
2.  13:53, 160 spm, 138 bpm taken at 1.5 miles, 73 sl
3.  14:01, 161 spm, 138 bpm taken at 3.01 miles, 73 sl

I reduced miles 1 and 2 times by 15 seconds to account for taking the pulse (10 seconds) and 5 seconds for stopping and starting.  Mile 3's bpm was taken right after hitting mile 3, so no adjustment.

A few surprises for me occurred, this morning
1.  The legs didn't start getting tired until 2.4 miles.  1st sign was a bit of wobbling.
2.  HR was consistent throughout the whole run Shocked .  I stopped, finger-to-pulse for 10 seconds, resume running.
3.  Lungs were not taxed until about 2 miles.
4.  Started cadence at 160, then bumped it up to 161 at 0.5 miles.
5.  The heart was a willing participant.

In my opinion, walking the parking garage and the stairs kept the legs from losing as much ability to run, rather than just walking.  Walking by itself doesn't tax the running muscles like running does.  Going up and down, I guess, engages or simulates running more.  Maybe walking spreads the effort over the muscles more than running does.  That was the greatest surprise of today's run.  2nd was the steady, steady HR.

Today went so well, that I might change Monday's LR distance of 3 miles to 4.
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Post  ounce on Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:06 am

@Mark B wrote:Plan looks diabolical, but solid. Just listen to the *rest* of your body as you ramp it up. Your heart may be "go-go-go!" but all the connective tissue needs to be brought along slowly so they don't go "no-no-no!"

Your new Gadget looks good. Hopefully it works better than El Cheapo. 

Weird about the dental work. Why are they so concerned about extractions or oral surgery?

Agreed, Mark.  I always build in to schedules certain checkpoints at certain times to ensure I am 2-3 miles ahead of 3 different mile checkpoints.  This schedule has me 2-3 miles behind the checkpoint's distances.  The 30K race is the 3rd checkpoint and I'm 2 miles behind it.  But the buildup is gentle to the 30K race.  At some point, probably after the stress test, I'll do tempo runs to get the legs' turnover memory going.

The 30K race, to me, has always been my best assessment on how I would do at the marathon.  It's long enough to gauge endurance against effort.

Regarding the Gadget, it's at the next price point I was willing to pay.  I almost ordered a $100 fitbit, but the comments that it had BP capability and other HR capabilities specifically for their doctor sealed the deal.

As far as dental work, it's the excessive bleeding without as many platelets.  I am amazed how a little nick bleeds SO much, now.  And if you don't know about it and scratch off the clot, then it bleeds allllll over again.  One nick on my head reminded me of the iconic 1964 photo of Y.A. Tittle, Hall of Fame QB for NY Giants, sitting in the end zone.

Term Limits? - Page 23 9k=
I had a nick that trailed blood similar to his.
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Post  nkrichards on Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:49 am

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Plan looks diabolical, but solid. Just listen to the *rest* of your body as you ramp it up. Your heart may be "go-go-go!" but all the connective tissue needs to be brought along slowly so they don't go "no-no-no!"

Your new Gadget looks good. Hopefully it works better than El Cheapo. 

Weird about the dental work. Why are they so concerned about extractions or oral surgery?

Agreed, Mark.  I always build in to schedules certain checkpoints at certain times to ensure I am 2-3 miles ahead of 3 different mile checkpoints.  This schedule has me 2-3 miles behind the checkpoint's distances.  The 30K race is the 3rd checkpoint and I'm 2 miles behind it.  But the buildup is gentle to the 30K race.  At some point, probably after the stress test, I'll do tempo runs to get the legs' turnover memory going.

The 30K race, to me, has always been my best assessment on how I would do at the marathon.  It's long enough to gauge endurance against effort.

Regarding the Gadget, it's at the next price point I was willing to pay.  I almost ordered a $100 fitbit, but the comments that it had BP capability and other HR capabilities specifically for their doctor sealed the deal.

As far as dental work, it's the excessive bleeding without as many platelets.  I am amazed how a little nick bleeds SO much, now.  And if you don't know about it and scratch off the clot, then it bleeds allllll over again.  One nick on my head reminded me of the iconic 1964 photo of Y.A. Tittle, Hall of Fame QB for NY Giants, sitting in the end zone.

Term Limits? - Page 23 9k=
I had a nick that trailed blood similar to his.
Plan looks good Doug.  As Mark said, don't forget to rest...take a step back week or rest day if you body starts complaining.  Works well to stay at the same LR distance or even cut back one week to give your body time to recover and then you're probably OK to increase your distance by 2 miles which would put you right back on track.  You've done this before...you know the signs to watch for.

Your new gadget look interesting.  You get a lot for the price!  It will be nice to have it record your HR on the go so you don't have to stop and check your pulse.

Bleeding is definitely a concern but I think the big concern is infection.  Oral health is a big factor in heart health.  Inflammation alone is a big concern but the risk of infection during invasive treatments is huge.  Anytime you have a foreign object in your body they worry that the infection will travel to it and hide and they won't be able to kill it with antibiotics.  There isn't enough blood flow to get the antibiotics to the infection.  My Dad had to take preventative antibiotics every time he went to the dentist after having a hip replacement.  Stents, valves etc in the heart are an even bigger concern.  It was in infection in my Dad's new heart valve that caused his death.  He wasn't strong enough to handle another open heart surgery to remove the infected valve and replace it with a clean one and they just couldn't clear it up with antibiotics.  Of course he was much older and more frail than you!  In general it is very manageable but it does require some management.

Oh...and in response to your question about what motivated me to get back to running...  My cardiologist who explained that running was probably what saved my life.  He wanted to make sure that I understood that I would have a much longer, healthier life if I returned to running as compared to going home and sitting on the couch.  But the real reason was because I'm competitive and very stubborn.   Laughing  And I am prepared to slide into home plate with a well worn body.  Quality of life is much more important to me than quantity.

Happy running...
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Post  ounce on Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:04 pm

Hadn't thought about bleeding and infection, but that is a really big deal if a tooth has abscessed, even for a healthy person, too.  Dentists script some anti-biotics a few days before fixing the abscess.  'Endocarditis' or inflamed heart is what is to be avoided.

Regarding you and the doc, I REMEMBER him saying that running, and running during the race, saved your life, which made me change my tactic during a race to tell the medical staff to stage an ambulance ahead of me and I'll run right into it, so blood flow isn't stopped waiting for the ambulance.

Separately, while waiting for the doctor, I couldn't help but notice all the people older than me waiting.  They got up and couldn't manage a stride length much longer than the length of their shoe.  It was so sad.  I don't expect any of them sliding into home plate, unless they fall on the decline side of a hill.
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Post  ounce on Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:09 pm

I ran again, this morning.  I wanted to see how the two back to back runs compared.  It was 75 degrees again.  I adjusted the times for measuring HR.

3 miles, 42:50 adjusted, 14:25 adjusted pace, 157 avg cadence (not adjusted), 0.70 m avg stride length
1.  14:50, 158 spm, 126 bpm at 0.97 miles
2.  14:05, 157 spm, 144 bpm at 1.5 miles
3.  13:55, 160 spm, 156 bpm after 3rd mile

I can say that it was tougher, today.  Yesterday, the running muscles were mostly fresh.  Today, used.  But they have to get used to it.  There wasn't any pain, but they were acting like a child not wanting to get up for the first day of school.  "How bad do you want to run?"  The legs found out and responded for the 3rd mile.  My legs weren't wobbly today, of which I am pleased.

I'm not really concerned about the HR splits because the heart will be the first to settle down and reduce the bpm.

Y'all have a good weekend.
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Post  nkrichards on Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:16 pm

@ounce wrote:Hadn't thought about bleeding and infection, but that is a really big deal if a tooth has abscessed, even for a healthy person, too.  Dentists script some anti-biotics a few days before fixing the abscess.  'Endocarditis' or inflamed heart is what is to be avoided.

Regarding you and the doc, I REMEMBER him saying that running, and running during the race, saved your life, which made me change my tactic during a race to tell the medical staff to stage an ambulance ahead of me and I'll run right into it, so blood flow isn't stopped waiting for the ambulance.

Separately, while waiting for the doctor, I couldn't help but notice all the people older than me waiting.  They got up and couldn't manage a stride length much longer than the length of their shoe.  It was so sad.  I don't expect any of them sliding into home plate, unless they fall on the decline side of a hill.
Haha.  Yes, the waiting room is an interesting...depressing place.  I think I mentioned that my Mom sometimes accompanies me to my appointments.  She lives between my house and the doctor.  I pick her up and we chat on the way there and then usually have lunch...or ice cream with Katie...before I drop her off at home.  They usually assume that I am bringing my Mom in for her appointment.  It causes some funny reactions and often embarrassment and an apology when they realize that I'm the one seeing the cardiologist.  My Mom...and most of my family...are averse to exercise.  They say that because they work they don't need to workout.  They all struggle with weight, BP, and mobility issues that could be at least partially controlled by exercise.  Mom is loosing her mobility very quickly.  She's upset that she isn't able to do the things that she would like to and gets very depressed but do you think we can convince her to exercise or go to physical therapy...NOPE!

I think my decision to move on or wait during a race would be determined partially by the level of medical training available at that site.  I wouldn't run on if there were highly trained medical professionals with the equipment necessary to treat me but I might keep moving at least a bit if it was just staffed my untrained volunteers.  Not sure I'd go to far though.  And you know that chewing an aspirin is recommended as well.

I forgot to answer your question in a previous post about running in the heat.  I have never been good at running in the heat.  I ran my best marathon with a starting temperature of -2 Celsius and a finish line temp of 0 Celsius (it was in Canada).  I'm definitely more comfortable at temps below 50 degrees.  I didn't notice a change in my ability to run in the heat after my cardiac event...I already struggled in the heat.  But Dr. B did inform me that running in the heat created additional stress on the heart as it had to work extra hard to keep the body cool.  He cautioned me to be aware of that and to ease back on my effort if I did run in the heat.  Your body is much better acclimated to the heat and humidity so while I do think you need to be mindful I don't think you need to be overly concerned.  You don't really have another option unless it's running inside on a treadmill in an air conditioned room.  I think you're much better off to continue to run outside so that your body is acclimated and prepared.
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Post  ounce on Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:10 pm

Well, one never knows who is staffing a medical station, but I'm sure muscle tightness, chafing and blisters are covered. I'll check out the website.

Even though it's 89 degrees at this writing, it'll be getting cooler, or not as hot, in about 10 days, if the weather people are somewhat right. So the heat may be a moot point. Thanks.

So, I received the Wofit V19, yesterday. China companies still have a ways to go to translate Chinese to English. So it's difficult to try to transliterate the intent.

This watch is head and shoulders above El Cheapo. I did figure out how to do an EKG and, finally, the BP feature. The booger is that in order to upload the data from the watch to the app is to logout, then log back in.

I wore it to bed, last night, and it recorded my sleep and I was able to upload. I haven't figured out how to upload HR, but I have figured out how to upload BP. THAT is great, since I had the 150/86 on Wednesday.

Last night and today, my average is 121/81. So, I think I need to go to the doc's office and compare their number against the watch for accuracy. May e a fire station, too.

I've taken the BP with the watch face up and with the watch face on the underside of the wrist. Not a noticeable difference.

I'll keep on playing with it. If the accuracy on BP is there, it's a good tool.
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Post  nkrichards on Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:32 pm

@ounce wrote:Well, one never knows who is staffing a medical station, but I'm sure muscle tightness, chafing and blisters are covered.  I'll check out the website.

Even though it's 89 degrees at this writing, it'll be getting cooler, or not as hot, in about 10 days, if the weather people are somewhat right.  So the heat may be a moot point.  Thanks.

So, I received the Wofit V19, yesterday.  China companies still have a ways to go to translate Chinese to English.  So it's difficult to try to transliterate the intent.

This watch is head and shoulders above El Cheapo.  I did figure out how to do an EKG and, finally, the BP feature.  The booger is that in order to upload the data from the watch to the app is to logout, then log back in.

I wore it to bed, last night, and it recorded my sleep and I was able to upload.  I haven't figured out how to upload HR, but I have figured out how to upload BP.  THAT is great, since I had the 150/86 on Wednesday.

Last night and today, my average is 121/81.  So, I think I need to go to the doc's office and compare their number against the watch for accuracy.  May e a fire station, too.  

I've taken the BP with the watch face up and with the watch face on the underside of the wrist.  Not a noticeable difference.

I'll keep on playing with it.  If the accuracy on BP is there, it's a good tool.
Glad the watch is doing what you hoped.  If you get stuck try YouTube.  You would be amazed at the things you can find.  That's how I figured out how to program my bike computer.  The written directions were worthless!

Good plan to compare the reading from your watch to the doctor's or something.  Once you know if it reads high/low/right on you'll be all set.  It's the trends that you want to watch anyway.  The HR on my fitness watch with a wrist reading and the HR on my running watch with the chest strap don't always match up but I've learned how to utilize the data they both provide fairly effectively.

Hope the cool weather arrives as scheduled!
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:34 pm

Keep tracking that BP at home and then compare at the Doc.  Mine is always elevated at the doctor but fine when I measure it (daily) at home. (We have a history of elevated BP in my family - my Mom runs like 180/110).  Mine averages 128/68 - and it went to that level during/after menopause which may affect it (in our case) as that is when my sister's increased as well.     I also have an "enlarged" heart i.e. the heart of an athlete and my cardiologist just watches it.  My resting HR is quite low and my HR during runs/biking/swimming is also very low.   

Sounds like things are coming around and you will be fine.  Keep up the excellent work and you will get to the starting line at Houston.
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Post  ounce on Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:37 am

Thank y'all for the comments.  Nancy, would it be acceptable if there's a 10 point systolic difference between the doc and my watch, that I just make the mental note and move on?  The BP data on the Wofit app is recorded by hour, by day.  I did look at YouTube, by the way.  It only had two short videos on connecting to the phone.  So, I put the question to the Ironheart group.  Nothing solid there, either.

Miche1e and her thick walled heart.  I guess that I shouldn't be surprised, but you've been after it for 3 or 4 decades, though.  That sure is your drug.  As far as Houston, the training will be 18 weeks of push with no room for error or injury.  I always have the Half on which to fall back.

-30-

This morning, it was 78 degrees with a dew point of 72, a bit dryer than past days.  Three miles were on the schedule, but since I ran 3 miles on both Thursday and Friday, I decided to make today's long run 4 miles.  That gives me a little wiggle room in the schedule.  Yesterday was 18 weeks until the marathon.

Being not perfectly comfortable with the V19 watch, I brought the watch along to see how close it is to an accurate HR.  I also read comments in amazon about the V19 and about 4 of the 40 comments mentioned the BP never measured anything above 129 systolic.  So far, I can vouch for that.

I stopped after mile 2 to get a HR reading (it was 144 bpm) and after mile 4 (156 bpm).  I have adjusted the times accordingly.

4 miles, 55:48, 13:57 pace, 157 avg cadence, 0.73 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 14:25, 2nd half pace 13:38
1.  14:41, 159 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:51, 160 spm, 72 sl
3.  13:36, 151 spm, 76 sl (net after 20 seconds for HR check, cadence figure affected.)
4.  13:40, 160 spm, 74 sl

The HR feature on the V19 was giving reasonable numbers after mile 2 and after hitting mule 4.  However during mile 2, the V19 was showing 111 as a pulse.  Suspect

I guess you can tell that I wasn't running conversationally.  Seeing that mile 1 at 14:41, I had to boogie.  Mile 4 was a huffin' mile, due to the prior 2 miles.  But I was very pleased at completing the 4.  I have to fight the two competing opinions in my head for the next 17 weeks.  I have Fretting Freda and Fast Freddy ('fast' is a relative term not to be confused with Nancy's).

Fretting Freda says, "SHIT! 5 miles, next Monday?" and
Fast Freddy says, "SHIT! 5 miles, next Monday!"
Ah, the mind plays tricks on you.

On the V19, there is a running mode you can select.  If I did it correctly, it would give time, HR and two other things.  Without my glasses, the HR was tough to read.  One thing that I didn't know it would give me, after uploading into the AP was BP every 5 minutes during the run.  I took a photo of it and will try to upload it after sending this post.

Thanks for commenting.
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Post  ounce on Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:46 am

2nd attempt. This is the BP for the run.Term Limits? - Page 23 Resize11Term Limits? - Page 23 Resize11
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Post  ounce on Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:47 am

Well, 2 shots of the same data.  Oh, well.  But can you SEE it well enough????? Wink
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Post  ounce on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:20 pm

I went up to the doc's office and had the contest.

The V19 ----- 111/68
The doc's ----- 142/90

Back to amazon it goes.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:03 pm

Were those readings both at the Docs?  Just curious because the readings from your run do not look abnormal - exercise drives down your BP.
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Post  ounce on Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:10 pm

1L,
Yes, the V19 was measured first. Then their machine. The nurse imagined that if the difference was 10 points or less, then I could use the watch. Alas, it was not.

The V19 was the first BP on a watch. On amazon, a couple of the comments mentioned the systolic number never went higher than 129.

So I'll keep looking and, in the meantime, I'll use my folks' BP machine. The nurse offered to check the accuracy of that machine against their's. I'll take her up on that.

Thanks, 1L.
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Post  ounce on Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:32 am

I went to the gym to lift weights, this morning.  Being more consistent, I am seeing some improvement in the various movements, even including lifting heavier!  I am even seeing improvement in getting into a pigeon position with my right leg, which is really cool.

It is probable that I'll have to go to the gym tomorrow for my 3 mile run.  There's a Tropical Depression off the coast of Corpus Christi that will be shoveling moisture our way until late Thursday. 5"-15" of rain, depending on luck.  A High pressure system in Kentucky is blocking the depression from moving out of SE Texas.

I have an idea to switch Thursday's weights with Friday's run in order to give me an extra day of rest for Monday's long run.  The theme of Wednesday runs is parking garage (~3 miles) or tempo (up to 4.5 miles).  The Friday run is a sorta long run.  Thoughts?

I took my BP with my parent's machine.
Last night 142/67
This morning 141/81
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Post  nkrichards on Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:01 pm

I don't think the BP data during your run is as important as the data when you're at rest.  HR data during a run probably is important.  I didn't have to worry much about my BP it was always fine.  But I did log my BP and HR at rest for a month or so after my cardiac event.  We were actually watching HR more than BP as I was on a beta blocker.  I just wrote down both as it didn't take much more time/effort.  I checked it night and morning with one of the wrist cuffs that they use when you go to the dentist.  We were watching for trends not individual readings.  I would take if when I first got up and again at night after I settled in to read the paper and have a cup of tea before bedtime.

Sounds like the nurse is willing to help you find an appropriate tool.  If it's inconvenient to use you folks monitor you might ask her to recommend one that has a good track record and is affordable.

As far as switching up your schedule.  There are different theories.  One is to run less (more rest) complete your runs at a higher effort.  Another is accumulative fatigue where you run on tired legs.  You don't run as long or as hard but get more of a marathon experience.  Might be an option to run rested at this point in your cycle as you build your mileage back up and maybe transition into running on tired legs closer to the event.  As always listen to your body.  We're all different and react to training differently.

Running Running Running
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Post  ounce on Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:11 pm

Hmmm, Nancy, you've given me something to think about regarding the schedule.  Thanks.

As far as BP machines, my folk's machine passes muster by being within 6 points of the doc's.  So I'll continue using it and logging the numbers until my stress test in late October.
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Post  nkrichards on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:40 am

I saw some news coverage of flooding in Houston.  I don't watch much news so was surprised that it made it into my narrow "news window".  Hope you're safe and sound and relatively dry.  Staying indoors for a couple days?
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Post  ounce on Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:23 am

Yesterday, I ran 3 miles.  It was an iffy situation with TD Imelda just 8 miles north.  Luckily for my run, the really bad 'warm core' rain was 35 miles south.  On the way back from the run, I was experiencing a steady drizzle. 

This morning, the 'warm core' rain was 25 miles north and training all the way east into Louisiana.  TREMENDOUS rain coming down in Beaumont, 90 miles east.  It's almost a second Harvey for them.  Here, we're in good shape as we await some of that rain that's sagging in our direction.  Imelda is 150 miles north, now.

Anyhoo, the run went well.  I didn't try to push as much.  This was supposed to be a parking garage theme, but my mind was on the rain and wet roads, that I didn't remember until past mile 1.  Oh, well.

3 miles, 43:01, 14:20 pace, 159 avg cadence, 0.70 m avg stride length
1.  14:38, 158 spm
2.  14:24, 161 spm
3.  13:59, 161 spm
End of run HR - 150 bpm.

Again, no problems with the body executing the run.

This morning, I went to the gym and lifted weights.  I think I need to bump up the pounds because my muscles are never sore.  Sounds like that would be fine, but it just seems like I could do heavier.

Regarding the rain, in just the short time it's taken to type this, the north side of Houston around IAH is getting pummeled at a 5"/hour rate.  This area is now under the first Flash Flood Emergency since Harvey in 2017.  Now, I'm hearing thunder.  Tons of lightning happening in north Houston.  I'm located in near west Houston, about 7 miles from downtown.  I'll see if I can post a radar pic.
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Post  ounce on Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:34 am

@nkrichards wrote:I saw some news coverage of flooding in Houston.  I don't watch much news so was surprised that it made it into my narrow "news window".  Hope you're safe and sound and relatively dry.  Staying indoors for a couple days?
Must've been a slow news day, otherwise.

The Beaumont area has been hammered.  I-10 connects Houston and Beaumont and it's flooded in Winnie, which is 60 miles east of Houston and 30 miles west of Beaumont.

Just in the last 30 minutes has the serious rain moved into Houston, proper.  And the lightning is impressive.  There is sooooo much moisture in SE Texas caused by Imelda.  The reason for the convection (thunderstorms) is that the Jet Stream is splitting over Houston (it was split over Beaumont).  A split Jet Stream causes a void in the atmosphere and the convection from Imelda just rushes into that void, causing impressive rains. 

This was supposed to have lifted out of here, by now.
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Post  ounce on Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:00 pm

So, this was at noon CT, 2 hours after the above post


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Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:54 pm

Just checking in to check on you - but if you're posting then I know you are ok so far.
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Post  ounce on Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:26 pm

Thanks, 1L. Yup, high and dry. Plan on running, tomorrow.
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