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Post  nkrichards on Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:38 pm

I'm going to cheer you on but keep eating...sorry.

Congrats on the weight loss.  Stay healthy and keep running when you can.

Nice job on your half btw.  I haven't had a chance to read your blog in depth but did see you had a good day.
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Post  ounce on Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:37 pm

@Mark B wrote:Good job beating the rain, well, mostly. 

Not sure about the whole intermittent fasting thing. My SO is in recovery from an eating disorder, and this sounds like a possible trigger.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't forgo the after-dinner snacks, of course...
Of course.  Read up on intermittent fasting thing some.  You might could mask it.  
@nkrichards wrote:I'm going to cheer you on but keep eating...sorry.

Congrats on the weight loss.  Stay healthy and keep running when you can.

Nice job on your half btw.  I haven't had a chance to read your blog in depth but did see you had a good day.
I totally understand.  I'm always thinking of something wacky.  

Thanks on the half.  Seems so long ago, now.  On the one hand, I ran the whole thing, but on the other hand, it was slower than I would've liked.  I'm blaming the WBC donation for taking more RBC's than I expected.  It's probably why I could run the whole distance, just slower.  The endurance was there.  The red blood cells were not.

-30-

It was 44 degrees, this morning, with a slight breeze.  Less than I was dressed for handling.  I wasn't too warm, though.  Two days ago, I ran 5 miles in 62 degree weather.  I was curious if the legs wanted to run 5 miles so 'soon' after running 5 miles.  Last Summer, it wouldn't have happened.  For that much, I'm a bunch ahead of last year.

Cadence was set at 162 spm.

5 miles, 1:07:59, 13:35 pace, 161 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:36, 2nd half pace 13:34.
1.  13:39, 160 spm, 73 sl
2.  13:31, 162 spm, 74 sl
3.  13:44, 161 spm, 73 sl
4.  13:27, 161 spm, 75 sl
5.  13:37, 161 spm, 73 sl

As far as keeping my interest during a run, give me 2 13's in a row and I'm motivated to keep showing 13's.  I still think that I'm a minute a mile slower than I should be, whenever my shoes hit the pavement.  That's most of the reason for losing the weight.  I weighed 190 when I ran my 2015 PR of a 12:22 pace.

Whenever I felt my heel dragging the pavement in miles 4 and 5, I leaned forward a little to hit more mid-step.  That's why those splits are better than mile 3.

14 miles for the week.  That's mighty good to see.  

Until the 14th, I won't run during the fast because I don't want to burn the candle at both ends of the muscle cell.  I may go up to 24 hour fitness and ride one of their stationary bikes.

Thanks for stopping by and welcome back again, Nancy.
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Post  ounce on Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:54 pm

I am in day 2 of 10 of a fast.  Yesterday was full of growling from the tummy and avoiding food related things around me.  This time is easier in that I know what's to happen, but tougher in that I have to stop thinking about what I'm going to eat on March 14.  I have to let a week go by before I can have THOSE thoughts.

From the first fast in February, I netted an 8 pound loss from the 22 I was down at the end of that 10 day fast.  That's really too much to gain back, in my opinion.  However, it IS 8 pounds less in one month.  I just ate more than I should; more like gleefully ate more than I should.  I'll work on that.

This morning, I was down 6 pounds, which is not too surprising with it being mostly water weight.  I still have some water to lose, judging from above my ankles.  Last time, I lost 7 with some plateauing over a day or two.  I did not write down the daily weight loss.

I won't be doing another 10 day fast in 2019.  I do believe I could do a 5 day (M-F) once a month and run the other 3 weeks for a few months, if my running doesn't suffer.  One thing about fasting is that it can be of different lengths from an intermittent fast to ones lasting 2-3 months.  

I reserve the right to stop this 10 day fast when I thing something good isn't happening.

That's all for now.  Thanks for stopping by.  Y'all stay warm.
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Post  ounce on Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:21 pm

In day 4 of 10, I have lost 10 pounds, the same as day 3.  I am staying the course, although I have to rein in thoughts of cooking, recipes, or going to the grocery store.  I haven't had any intestinal distress, which is an improvement over February's fast and could be a factor in not losing any additional fluid loss pounds.

Today is easier to manage any food issues and should be even easier as the 10 days elapse.  I have no sleep issues, as some people do.  I am sleeping well and I am loving the dreams that have been coming up the past few months.

Post-fast, my goal is to only gain back 30% of the weight lost.
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Post  nkrichards on Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:20 pm

@ounce wrote:In day 4 of 10, I have lost 10 pounds, the same as day 3.  I am staying the course, although I have to rein in thoughts of cooking, recipes, or going to the grocery store.  I haven't had any intestinal distress, which is an improvement over February's fast and could be a factor in not losing any additional fluid loss pounds.

Today is easier to manage any food issues and should be even easier as the 10 days elapse.  I have no sleep issues, as some people do.  I am sleeping well and I am loving the dreams that have been coming up the past few months.

Post-fast, my goal is to only gain back 30% of the weight lost.
  
Hope the fast is still going well.  I don't know how you do it.  Of course I haven't tried and maybe if I set my mind to it...who knows.

I am so impressed with your determination to do whatever you set your mind to...cadence, keto, fasting

I hate to admit this but I think that even with your breaks for your fasting you're still running more miles than anyone else on this site.   Shocked Shocked Shocked  Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

Stay well!
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Post  ounce on Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:55 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:In day 4 of 10, I have lost 10 pounds, the same as day 3.  I am staying the course, although I have to rein in thoughts of cooking, recipes, or going to the grocery store.  I haven't had any intestinal distress, which is an improvement over February's fast and could be a factor in not losing any additional fluid loss pounds.

Today is easier to manage any food issues and should be even easier as the 10 days elapse.  I have no sleep issues, as some people do.  I am sleeping well and I am loving the dreams that have been coming up the past few months.

Post-fast, my goal is to only gain back 30% of the weight lost.
  
Hope the fast is still going well.  I don't know how you do it.  Of course I haven't tried and maybe if I set my mind to it...who knows.

I am so impressed with your determination to do whatever you set your mind to...cadence, keto, fasting

I hate to admit this but I think that even with your breaks for your fasting you're still running more miles than anyone else on this site.   Shocked Shocked Shocked  Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

Stay well!
Well, you haven't needed to, Nancy.  After hitting 60, my metabolism slowed down.  So the same methods that worked in my 50's don't work now.  So, I have to go a bit extreme to hit my goals.  I have a limited amount of life left to be able to officially finish 2 Houston's.  And I have to get into the low 200's or under 200 in order to assist in making it possible.  Plus, I have to keep up my running, so I don't run into another Summer of 6-8 mile weeks.  That was so frustrating.

As far as running and the boards, I may be the only one reporting on runs.  1L is still running and biking because she and I are 'friends' on Garmin's site.  So, I can see what's she's doing and she can see mine.

Health is still good.  Thanks, Nancy.

-30-

Day 6 of 10.  Hit the hump, yesterday and ("Jeff, Jeff, Jeff.  What day is it?  HUMP DAYYYYYYYY!") that felt good.  Day 5 still had me at a plateau of 10 pounds lost.  I went shopping for some non-wild caught salmon (on sale at the stores for $6/lb) and picked me up about 6 pounds.  $6/lb is as cheap as we see it, down here.  My best friend is a seafood manager at cheapest of the stores and he says that's pretty much cost +/- a couple of pennies.  I cut it up and froze it.

I did work around my fast (aka breaking) when the thin, long flap on the fillets was cut from the main part and skinned.  About 12" long, 1 inch wide, and 1/4" thick.  I ate the meat raw, then put the skin in the oven for about 15 minutes.  Yummy.  So, that's all that I've had.

This morning (still day 6), I had lost 3 more pounds since day 3 for a cumulative of 13 pounds.  I had some distress over the past couple of days, including day 5 when I had no weight loss.  So, distress isn't making a difference in weight loss, so far.  

Like me running in the 13s, seeing some weight loss this morning sure kept me on this track.  You see, yesterday, I was thinking of breaking it off early after no movement in 2 days.  But losing 3 has kept me on the right road AND I only have 4 days to go (another mental boost).  As a consolation prize, I may just end the fast AT 10 days (Wednesday at 7 p.m.), rather than running it through to Thursday morning (10 1/2 days) after doing blood work.  The tummy will like me a whole lot more.

Broiled salmon in a white sauce (should've I said bechamel sauce with my nose in the air?) plus scratch biscuits is on the menu, already.

Thanks for stopping by.
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Post  ounce on Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:11 am

Day 8 of 10 - I went and saw "Alita" on Saturday afternoon.  The ticket ripper at the theater (he's a regular ripper and I'm a regular patron) said, "Oh, this is a good movie.  You just have to turn your brain off and let your mind run with it."  

Seeing the trailer for months, I wasn't really motivated to see it for disdain of another "Avatar" movie and for Alita with those big, bloodhound eyes.  I liked the movie because it kept up the pace and the CG characters were done well, for the most part (the huge bad guy wasn't as crisp looking as the normal sized bad guys).  Although I'm not looking forward to the next installment (it's made $350M worldwide and cost $180M).  She is a kick ass girl.

This morning, I am down 2 pounds since Saturday (1 pound each day), so that's 15 pounds, total.  I'm going to try to drink 3 quarts of water today (been drinking 2) and see what happens.  In February, that may have contributed to the intestines distressing, but I don't really know.  Hence, the test.

If I had to pick 1 thing that I don't like about the fasting is taking potassium on an empty stomach.  There's so much likelihood of distress for me.

Y'all behave out there!
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Post  Mark B on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:01 am

Seeing those pounds slip off can be a great motivator. I hope this works for you.

We saw Alita a few weeks ago and liked it a lot. The plot hews close to the first four books in the manga, and I think they did a good job creating the world she inhabits. The eyes weren't an issue, since she's a cyborg, after all.

I'm glad you're out there running, BTW. We intend to get back to it one of these days. This has been been my longest hiatus in quite some time. Neutral

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Post  ounce on Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:22 pm

@Mark B wrote:Seeing those pounds slip off can be a great motivator. I hope this works for you.

We saw Alita a few weeks ago and liked it a lot. The plot hews close to the first four books in the manga, and I think they did a good job creating the world she inhabits. The eyes weren't an issue, since she's a cyborg, after all.

I'm glad you're out there running, BTW. We intend to get back to it one of these days. This has been been my longest hiatus in quite some time. Neutral
Like any weight loss, it's keeping it off that's the issue.  So, that'll be the ongoing thing.  I expect to gain 5 pounds, right off the bat.

I tried to run 3 miles yesterday...just to see...and could only do one.  I was especially tired afterwards, which is not that unusual.  Especially since I'm finishing at 6 pm CT, today.

I trust re-starting the running will be like February's re-start.  3, then 4, then 5, then 6.

As far as your running, just think, you have no niggles!  And I'll be interested to read about re-starting Maff.

Thanks, Mark.
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Post  nkrichards on Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:45 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Seeing those pounds slip off can be a great motivator. I hope this works for you.

We saw Alita a few weeks ago and liked it a lot. The plot hews close to the first four books in the manga, and I think they did a good job creating the world she inhabits. The eyes weren't an issue, since she's a cyborg, after all.

I'm glad you're out there running, BTW. We intend to get back to it one of these days. This has been been my longest hiatus in quite some time. Neutral
Like any weight loss, it's keeping it off that's the issue.  So, that'll be the ongoing thing.  I expect to gain 5 pounds, right off the bat.

I tried to run 3 miles yesterday...just to see...and could only do one.  I was especially tired afterwards, which is not that unusual.  Especially since I'm finishing at 6 pm CT, today.

I trust re-starting the running will be like February's re-start.  3, then 4, then 5, then 6.

As far as your running, just think, you have no niggles!  And I'll be interested to read about re-starting Maff.

Thanks, Mark.
I can't imagine re-starting running while recovering from fasting.  I think you're going to have to concentrate on one thing at a time.  Just take care and listen to your body.

Congrats on the weight loss btw.
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Post  ounce on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:59 am

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Seeing those pounds slip off can be a great motivator. I hope this works for you.

We saw Alita a few weeks ago and liked it a lot. The plot hews close to the first four books in the manga, and I think they did a good job creating the world she inhabits. The eyes weren't an issue, since she's a cyborg, after all.

I'm glad you're out there running, BTW. We intend to get back to it one of these days. This has been been my longest hiatus in quite some time. Neutral
Like any weight loss, it's keeping it off that's the issue.  So, that'll be the ongoing thing.  I expect to gain 5 pounds, right off the bat.

I tried to run 3 miles yesterday...just to see...and could only do one.  I was especially tired afterwards, which is not that unusual.  Especially since I'm finishing at 6 pm CT, today.

I trust re-starting the running will be like February's re-start.  3, then 4, then 5, then 6.

As far as your running, just think, you have no niggles!  And I'll be interested to read about re-starting Maff.

Thanks, Mark.
I can't imagine re-starting running while recovering from fasting.  I think you're going to have to concentrate on one thing at a time.  Just take care and listen to your body.

Congrats on the weight loss btw.
Well, it's not much different than running after a vacation.  I was just curious how much effort it would take to run after 8 days of nothing and no exercise.  And it was a lot!  Recovering from fasting is not 'recovering' in the medical sense of the word.  You just start eating protein at about 50% of normal in the first 12 hours, then roll along normally.  There's a shock to the intestines (hence only 50%) in the first hour of eating.  No veggies (the fiber) and I ate carbs like biscuits, so there would be some bulk besides protein.  

The transition was easier this time than last month, when I celebrated by eating a 12 oz NY Strip and no biscuits.  Boy, that took a day for the system to settle down.  If I ever do a 10 day again (won't be until after Houston and ONLY if needed), I'll eat more bread or rice to buffer the system more.

I do have an idea to do a 5 day fast cycle, after running 3 weeks, where I can still run during the fast.  This can be done throughout the summer, prefaced by it being done during our hot 'n humid Summer.  I won't 5 day fast after Labor Day because I'll be getting into the meat of training.

All a work in progress.  Thanks, Nancy.

-30-

So on Wednesday evening, I weighed myself one final time and the final number is 14 pounds lost.  A little disappointed, but I've moved on.  Now, the job is keeping most of it off, while working on losing more in a more traditional way.  All of the plumbing is back to normal, as well.

In the end (a pun could be intended), the potassium was not as much a factor this time.  Since I was eating again, Thursday, I went and donated some platelets and plasma.  Easy peasy.
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Post  ounce on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:45 am

This morning (2 days after the fast), I went and ran at 162 cadence.  It was 54 degrees with a 10 mph north wind.  

Last month, I ran 4 days after the fast.  That day, I ran 4 miles at a 13:55 pace and 49 degrees.

I had no pre-conceived notions on how far.  Tuesday, I couldn't complete 1.  I'll go as far until the legs say 'turnaround.'

5 miles, 1:07:27, 13:29 pace, 162 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 14:00, 2nd half pace 12:58
1.  14:20, 162 spm, 69 sl
2.  13:55, 162 spm, 71 sl
3.  13:50, 161 spm, 72 sl
4.  12:50, 161 spm, 78 sl
5.  12:30, 163 spm, 79 sl (bumped cadence to 163)

What in the hell got into me????  Just before mile 1, I was tickled that I could keep going.  It got to where I wondered if I could run 6.  Wow.  6.  But my friends, my legs, subtly let me know to turnaround at 2.5 miles.  Once again, they were right.  I was wobbly for the last 3/4ths of a mile.

What you say?  Why did run in the 12s and decreased every split?

Well, y'all know that a pair of 13's motivates me to keep it going.  On my way back, I wondered how y'all finish the back half.  I really did.  I've always just wanted to make it to the end, unhurt, on a run.  After all, if you're hurt, you can't run.

Since it's early in the training session, I could push it some, with time to heal.  So, y'all motivated me to go faster and see how far and fast I cold go.  It can only help make me faster, until the dog days of summer.

Seeing that first 12 was really cool.  I mean REALLY cool.  "Let's do another!" and off I went.  I bumped the cadence from 162 to 163, just before the last mile started.

5 miles was the correct distance, so the legs were right again.  And it was cool with a breeze.  Maybe this is the start of some good training.  22 pounds lighter since the Super Bowl and some motivation to go faster, this morning.  I've gotta lose more.  That'll give me the tool to run faster.  It's days like today that are watershed moments.  We'll see if it continues.

Thanks for dropping by.
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Post  ounce on Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:08 am

Amazing what happens when one goes a little faster.  I wanted to see if Friday was a fluke.  The new cadence is 163, which was the 5th mile in Friday's run.  Last year, before the Summer's disaster was 164, so just about back to that cadence.  It was 45 degrees with no wind.  Was thinking to run 3 or 4 miles.  I do not have much frame of reference at running faster for an entire run.  

One side comment about Friday's run.  Usually, when I run faster than the norm, I will have some stiffness in the leg muscles as the day goes by.  For this run, I had none of that.  Could be the 10 day rest.

3 miles, 39:22, 13:06 pace, 162 avg cadence, 0.76 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:16, 2nd half pace 12:56
1.  13:17, 162 spm, 75 sl
2.  13:07, 163 spm, 75 sl
3.  12:57, 162 spm, 77 sl

I consciously started out faster and 1 step per minute faster on the cadence.  I was curious to see how long I could maintain that.  I was noticing that my eyes were not watching the ground in front of me as well as at a 14 minute pace.  There were a couple of times where I could've been tripped up by a section of sidewalk just an inch or two higher.  I laser focused on the sidewalk.  

I also noticed I was wobbling more than normal after the first mile.  That was one of the reasons for turning around at 1.6 miles.  I needed get comfortable with the 'speed.'  It wasn't a wobbling that would cause passing out.  Nothing like that at all.  It's just getting the brain ahead of the step placement, each and every time.

Meanwhile, when the 2nd mile split showed 10 seconds faster than the 1st, I tried to actually go a bit faster to start mile 3 so if I started to falter some, then maybe it would average out.  Actually, I didn't falter.  That's a shock.  I guess Friday wasn't a fluke.

The weather for this week is very conducive to making the past two runs the start of a new norm.  Highs in the low 70's all week.  Seasonal is 74.  Great start to Spring.  Thanks for stopping by.
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Post  nkrichards on Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:36 am

Fast Freddy must have stopped by for a visit.  He's welcome to stay as long as you like just make sure he knows who's the boss.  He can get a bit carried away sometimes.  Negative splits or fast finish runs are fun and definitely help build confidence.  I've learned that it's OK to do them on a pretty regular basis but not all the time.  We need easy runs as well.  Don't get to carried away but enjoy them. 

Congrats on a couple of very nice runs!
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Post  ounce on Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:57 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Fast Freddy must have stopped by for a visit.  He's welcome to stay as long as you like just make sure he knows who's the boss.  He can get a bit carried away sometimes.  Negative splits or fast finish runs are fun and definitely help build confidence.  I've learned that it's OK to do them on a pretty regular basis but not all the time.  We need easy runs as well.  Don't get to carried away but enjoy them. 

Congrats on a couple of very nice runs!
Thanks, Nancy.

I hadn't thought that Fast Freddy is in town.  Maybe he hitchhiked with a couple of snowbirds in an Airstream.  He's welcome for as long as he can stand the humidity.

Yeah, these two runs have been fun.  Especially since I really haven't been tired up to the end of the run and afterwards.  And no niggles.

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Post  Mark B on Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:07 pm

Woot! Negative splits! Negative splits!

I think they call that a ladder workout, when you get progressively faster as you fatigue. I've found myself doing that accidentally at times. 

If it works, keep it up! It keeps things exciting.

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Post  ounce on Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:56 pm

@Mark B wrote:Woot! Negative splits! Negative splits!

I think they call that a ladder workout, when you get progressively faster as you fatigue. I've found myself doing that accidentally at times. 

If it works, keep it up! It keeps things exciting.
Yeah, baby!

It definitely is exciting (well, maybe 'promising.')  Guess I'll have to figure something out on a plan that includes faster pacing (some would call it 'speed work,' but I need to get a faster pace before I'll call it speed work).  

What a nice problem to have.  Thanks, Mark.
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Post  ounce on Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:36 am

Riding the wave of less slow running is really fun.  Today's idea was to run 6 miles and see if a ~13:30 overall pace is doable, what effort is required, and for how long.  Maybe even a negative split.

This is the type of analysis that I have not done in 6 years, which is the training season that produced a 12:22 PR pace at 2014 Houston.  I was doing CrossFit, keto for the whole season, and was at 190 pounds for that race.  Definitely the best overall shape in my life.

It was 49 degrees, this morning, with no wind.  I kept the cadence at 163 and this would be the longest distance at the new cadence, so there's that to factor into the mix, as well.

6 miles, 1:20:37, 13:26 pace, 162 avg cadence, 0.74 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:43, 2nd half 13:09.
1.  14:02, 162 spm, 71 sl
2.  13:37, 163 spm, 73 sl
3.  13:29, 162 spm, 74 sl
4.  13:26, 162 spm, 74 sl
5.  13:12, 163 spm, 75 sl
6.  12:49, 163 spm, 77 sl

So, it wasn't the smoothest, most consistent run that I've had.  Maintaining the 163 was harder than the splits would indicate.  The wobbliness reported in past reports has resolved itself.  That's an unintended positive.  

The total effort was moderate.  The breathing was a 10K effort...not a rapid breathing like for a 5K, but certainly not a long run breathing effort.  I guess this tells me that I'm pushing harder than usual for all functions.  My breathing is usually the first thing to adapt and it clearly has not.  That will come.

When I saw the mile 5 split was 13:12, I wanted to see if I could do another 12.  Check. Approval

Going forward, I don't want to slow this train down because I don't know if I could catch it, later.  In fact, I want to run faster while the weather is cool and the body is agreeable.  At least, that's my leaning.  A 13:25 or faster long run pace where the effort eases as the body adapts.

With each split of today's run becoming faster, I guess I'm good for 7 or 8 miles at 13:25.

Thoughts?  Thanks.
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Post  Mark B on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:15 am

Thoughts: Press for faster running now, while the weather is cooperating. 

I've seen twists on Daniels' training pyramid that puts faster running earlier in the training process (as opposed to near the end, after lots of base-building), to build strength upon which endurance can be laid later. 

Here's an article about it from McMillan Running: Time to rethink your marathon training program?

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Post  nkrichards on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:49 am

@Mark B wrote:Thoughts: Press for faster running now, while the weather is cooperating. 

I've seen twists on Daniels' training pyramid that puts faster running earlier in the training process (as opposed to near the end, after lots of base-building), to build strength upon which endurance can be laid later. 

Here's an article about it from McMillan Running: Time to rethink your marathon training program?
+1 on Mark's thoughts.  

Hanson also has faster stuff earlier in the training settling in to more tempo and longer stuff later.  I need to reread some of his stuff but I'm thinking your 12's would count for Tempo pace if not speed pace.  He modifies his recommendations for elites, competitive age group runners and 4 hour plus marathon runners.  I've realized that I need to rethink some of my paces based on being in that last group.  I'll take a look when I have more time.  Do you have a marathon goal pace in mind?

Nice 6 miler btw!  I'm still blown away that you can keep up that cadence.  You've got me beat there!!
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Post  ounce on Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:01 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Thoughts: Press for faster running now, while the weather is cooperating. 

I've seen twists on Daniels' training pyramid that puts faster running earlier in the training process (as opposed to near the end, after lots of base-building), to build strength upon which endurance can be laid later. 

Here's an article about it from McMillan Running: Time to rethink your marathon training program?
+1 on Mark's thoughts.  

Hanson also has faster stuff earlier in the training settling in to more tempo and longer stuff later.  I need to reread some of his stuff but I'm thinking your 12's would count for Tempo pace if not speed pace.  He modifies his recommendations for elites, competitive age group runners and 4 hour plus marathon runners.  I've realized that I need to rethink some of my paces based on being in that last group.  I'll take a look when I have more time.  Do you have a marathon goal pace in mind?

Nice 6 miler btw!  I'm still blown away that you can keep up that cadence.  You've got me beat there!!
I haven't ran a full marathon since 2016, so reviewing marathon websites was never on my radar.  I have Daniels' book, but it wasn't applicable to my pace or I couldn't adjust and adapt my pace to his book.  I've never read Hanson's stuff for the same reason.  So, I appreciate bringing back those names from the depths of my noodle.  McMillan's website seemed to be easier to adapt to my efforts.

It's odd to see Hanson's idea sort of lining up with my idea to run faster and let my body's ability come to the faster pace, rather than get to some faster pace as my body approves.

Nancy, as far as keeping up the cadence, you have to understand that I click a metronome to my shirt that's set to 163 and it beeps for my whole run.  So, it's not some inherent ability to keep that cadence.

By the way, 1L and I can see each other's runs on Garmin Connect.  Yesterday, she ran 18.51 miles at a 9:19 avg pace.  So, she must be feeling decent, ahead of Boston.  Possibly the last long run?

Okay, let's get to today's run.

-30-

It was 62 degrees and humid, this morning, but not so bad as to cause concern of profusely sweating.  That'll be coming soon enough.

I was thinking about running 6 to 9 miles, this morning.  I was going to do this, yesterday, but figured the traffic would be less on my route and it gave me one last Saturday to run, before the Fall.

So, pushing the envelope some seemed appropriate under the circumstances.  Six seemed too 'easy' and nine might have been pushing the ability too much.  I think Goldilocks would like 8.  Cadence was 163 and I was wearing my Wolverine reflective short sleeved shirt.

8 miles, 1:46:13, 13:16 pace, 162 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:22, 2nd half pace 13:10.
1.  13:37, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  13:08, 163 spm, 75 sl
3.  13:12, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  13:27, 163 spm, 73 sl
5.  13:10, 160 spm, 76 sl
6.  13:15, 163 spm, 75 sl
7.  13:18, 162 spm, 75 sl
8.  13:04, 162 spm, 76 sl

Well.  No faster splits throughout the run, but that's okay.  The low to high spread is 33 seconds, coincidentally mile 8 and 1.  I was definitely feeling the effects of the run during the last two miles, as the quads were whining.  But the legs never told me to turn around, once reaching mile 4.  Goldilocks approved.

The breathing relaxed through the first 5 miles to an almost long run rate.  Not too surprised as that always adjusts first.  If only the rest of the body would adjust that quickly.  There were times, evidently during mile 5 (although 6 seemed to be it), where the turnover was not as in sync with the the gnome's beeps.  I adjusted my lean and that fixed it.

Like Wednesday's run, I was curious if I could do a sub-13 mile 8.  I held it until the last quarter mile.  Such is life.  But I've done shockingly well, this week.  Beyond my expectations.  17 miles for the week.

Thanks for the good comments and for stopping by.
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Post  Mark B on Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:05 am

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Thoughts: Press for faster running now, while the weather is cooperating. 

I've seen twists on Daniels' training pyramid that puts faster running earlier in the training process (as opposed to near the end, after lots of base-building), to build strength upon which endurance can be laid later. 

Here's an article about it from McMillan Running: Time to rethink your marathon training program?
+1 on Mark's thoughts.  

Hanson also has faster stuff earlier in the training settling in to more tempo and longer stuff later.  I need to reread some of his stuff but I'm thinking your 12's would count for Tempo pace if not speed pace.  He modifies his recommendations for elites, competitive age group runners and 4 hour plus marathon runners.  I've realized that I need to rethink some of my paces based on being in that last group.  I'll take a look when I have more time.  Do you have a marathon goal pace in mind?

Nice 6 miler btw!  I'm still blown away that you can keep up that cadence.  You've got me beat there!!
I haven't ran a full marathon since 2016, so reviewing marathon websites was never on my radar.  I have Daniels' book, but it wasn't applicable to my pace or I couldn't adjust and adapt my pace to his book.  I've never read Hanson's stuff for the same reason.  So, I appreciate bringing back those names from the depths of my noodle.  McMillan's website seemed to be easier to adapt to my efforts.

It's odd to see Hanson's idea sort of lining up with my idea to run faster and let my body's ability come to the faster pace, rather than get to some faster pace as my body approves.

Nancy, as far as keeping up the cadence, you have to understand that I click a metronome to my shirt that's set to 163 and it beeps for my whole run.  So, it's not some inherent ability to keep that cadence.

By the way, 1L and I can see each other's runs on Garmin Connect.  Yesterday, she ran 18.51 miles at a 9:19 avg pace.  So, she must be feeling decent, ahead of Boston.  Possibly the last long run?

Okay, let's get to today's run.

-30-

It was 62 degrees and humid, this morning, but not so bad as to cause concern of profusely sweating.  That'll be coming soon enough.

I was thinking about running 6 to 9 miles, this morning.  I was going to do this, yesterday, but figured the traffic would be less on my route and it gave me one last Saturday to run, before the Fall.

So, pushing the envelope some seemed appropriate under the circumstances.  Six seemed too 'easy' and nine might have been pushing the ability too much.  I think Goldilocks would like 8.  Cadence was 163 and I was wearing my Wolverine reflective short sleeved shirt.

8 miles, 1:46:13, 13:16 pace, 162 avg cadence, 0.75 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 13:22, 2nd half pace 13:10.
1.  13:37, 163 spm, 73 sl
2.  13:08, 163 spm, 75 sl
3.  13:12, 163 spm, 75 sl
4.  13:27, 163 spm, 73 sl
5.  13:10, 160 spm, 76 sl
6.  13:15, 163 spm, 75 sl
7.  13:18, 162 spm, 75 sl
8.  13:04, 162 spm, 76 sl

Well.  No faster splits throughout the run, but that's okay.  The low to high spread is 33 seconds, coincidentally mile 8 and 1.  I was definitely feeling the effects of the run during the last two miles, as the quads were whining.  But the legs never told me to turn around, once reaching mile 4.  Goldilocks approved.

The breathing relaxed through the first 5 miles to an almost long run rate.  Not too surprised as that always adjusts first.  If only the rest of the body would adjust that quickly.  There were times, evidently during mile 5 (although 6 seemed to be it), where the turnover was not as in sync with the the gnome's beeps.  I adjusted my lean and that fixed it.

Like Wednesday's run, I was curious if I could do a sub-13 mile 8.  I held it until the last quarter mile.  Such is life.  But I've done shockingly well, this week.  Beyond my expectations.  17 miles for the week.

Thanks for the good comments and for stopping by.

Nice running, Ounce! Keep it up!

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Post  ounce on Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:11 am

Recovering from last week's runs, especially Saturday's, Sunday had me with tightness in the belly of the left quad.  This got me to thinking if last week's 17 miles was made completely possible by the 10 days of rest due to fasting.

This morning it was 68 degrees with a breeze and all the humidity measurable.  Since I'm working on my schedule for the next 44 weeks (300 days-that's what the countdown clock on the Marathon's website), Monday will be the long run day.  I thought 5 or 6 miles would be good, just 2 days after that speedy 8 of Saturday.

Welllll, that didn't work out.  The first mile was 13:20, but I could tell the wheels were beginning to fall off.  Pace was slowing and cadence wasn't keeping up with the beeper.  So I decided to stop at 1.62 miles.  Overall pace at the end had slowed to 13:43.

While I am not concerned that the honeymoon is over, it could mean I'll have to adjust my schedule if I can't maintain 3 days a week running.  My first adjustment would be to run 3x/week followed by 2x/week, rinse, repeat.  It'll take a couple of weeks to figure it out.

Time will tell.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:49 pm

So glad to see you following me, Doug as I follow you as well.  Yes, I did indeed run 18.5 miles on Friday and I have one more long run this weekend that will be 16.

I see your progress too.  Do look into Hanson's as the long runs are shorter, but, but, but, the weekly volume is more than usual as their idea is to spread out the weekly mileage better than a lot of plans, like Hal's, where you run minimal mileage during the week and then two big volume runs on the weekend.   There is a "Just Finish" option that only has you run 4 days per week (maybe 5 toward the end), and it doesn't really matter your pace.

I'll update what I've been doing over in a new blog.
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Post  ounce on Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:11 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:So glad to see you following me, Doug as I follow you as well.  Yes, I did indeed run 18.5 miles on Friday and I have one more long run this weekend that will be 16.

I see your progress too.  Do look into Hanson's as the long runs are shorter, but, but, but, the weekly volume is more than usual as their idea is to spread out the weekly mileage better than a lot of plans, like Hal's, where you run minimal mileage during the week and then two big volume runs on the weekend.   There is a "Just Finish" option that only has you run 4 days per week (maybe 5 toward the end), and it doesn't really matter your pace.

I'll update what I've been doing over in a new blog.
There ain't much to follow on my side, but thanks.  I'll look at Hanson as you and Nancy have suggested.  I have McMillan's up presently.  I had forgotten he even existed.  Such is life when one isn't healthy enough to run a marathon.

-30-

But this year seems to be starting off well, so far.  The weather here is helping as we're still having highs in the 60's, rather than lows in the 60's.  Not many, but a couple.

It was 55 degrees, this morning.  Tweaking McMillan's pre-marathon training that Mark supplied, I ran 6 x 800 at 85%-90% with a 400 at the start and in between each 800 at long run or slower pace.  For the 800's, my turnover was not liking the 163 cadence.  I bumped it up on the 4th split to 166 spm and everybody was happy.  I used the 163 for the recovery 400's.

I was trying to program it into the Garmin, but wasn't successful, so I just watched the mileage.

It ended up being 4.57 miles.  So, my tiredness on Monday's shortened run has abated.  However, I just about feel as tired right this minute as I did the day after the 8 mile.  I guess Friday will be an interesting run regarding distance.

The 800 splits are expressed by the pace.
1.  12:38, 163 spm, 78 sl
2.  12:29, 163 spm, 79 sl
3.  12:41, 163 spm, 78 sl
4.  12:11, 165 spm, 80 sl
5.  12:42, 163 spm, 78 sl
6.  12:21, 165 spm, 79 sl

Please notice the stride length is pushing 80, where my usual stride length is in the mid-70s or lower.  The breathing was doing just fine at that pace, although the legs were a bit wobbly on the way back.

I chose the 800 distance because I just thought it would take too long to progress from 300m to 800m, as McMillan suggests.  Since it's 44 weeks to Houston, I was thinking I could be in a good position by Labor Day doing it this way.  Time will tell.

It felt good to do this run and I hope I can shave some seconds off this effort and even do the long runs a little better while it's not summer.  Hopefully the summer will allow me to build a really thick base with the potential for Freddy to help out come Autumn, if he hasn't hitchhiked back to Oregon.

Thoughts?  Thanks.
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