365Runners
Welcome to 365Runners! We are here because we all share a running addiction. Whether training for a first marathon, a new PR, a new race distance, or anything else... welcome!

To stop the banner ads, please register and login. Otherwise, please enjoy browsing as a guest.

Term Limits?

Page 7 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:26 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Wow, fantastic race, Doug.  I'm proud of you as that was very well executed.  I heard the conditions were fantastic in Houston and everyone I know ran very well there this year.

Keep doing those pushups - I do 50 per day - 25 in the AM and 25 before bed with stretching.  They are great for core strength as Nancy said and I feel like a badass since I couldn't do any a few years back.

Keep up the good work.
Thanks, Miche1e.  I won't consider myself a bad ass on pushups untill I can do a traditional one, 100 times.  My poor arms will revolt, if I try to do them at my current weight...or even 25% less.
@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:

However, the green beans turned out wonderful.  I even went to the store and bought 2 bunches of collard greens with some of the other remaining ham.  The best collard greens, I'm told, come from North Carolina after the first frost.  They are properly and regionally called after cooked "a mess of greens."  Never had those.  Nancy, are collard/turnip/mustard greens something that your compadres grow in your neck of the woods?

A question for the audience:  Is there any documentation on a theory of working on getting faster by doing short distances (100 yd), then 400, 800, etc. working up to a marathon training distance plan?
Sorry to respond to this so late Doug.

Collard greens aren't a thing in our area.  Of course they're available but it's more a southern thing.  I had them in Atlanta once and they're OK.  Spinach and more recently Kale are the greens of choice in our area.  We like spinach raw, sautéed or boiled.  Not a huge fan of Kale mostly because I never learned to cook with it.  I do enjoy it if someone else prepares it.

There is a lot of support for faster intervals during marathon training.  Have you ever looked into Hansons Marathon Method?  They have some really good information on what paces we should run and why.  They discourage really long runs if they are a disproportionate percentage of your training.  They have some great information/recommendations for intervals including suggested paces.  I have their book but I'm sure you can find info online if you don't want to buy the book.

Good to see you out there running and looking into healthy life changes...
I didn't figure that collard greens were 'something' in y'alls area.  I like spinach over collards, but like anything, if it's seasoned the way you like whatever food, it's great.  Thanks.

I'll have to figure out something on the faster part.  As far as a long run being disproportionate against the whole, I don't agree with that because one has to get the long runs in, if there's any hope of adjusting the body to the wear and tear of a marathon.  It's not unusual for me to have a 20 or 22 mile long run be greater than 50% of the week's total.

It's what I have to do.
@Mark B wrote:There's a lot to be said for fast repeats in marathon training, as long as they're only part of the training plan.

Starting with 100s and graduating to 200s, 400s, etc., as you can tolerate them is a good strategy. It'll help you boost your VOmax, which will help you go faster at all distances. And pushups, while evil, are a good idea. I really ought to think about doing them again someday.

Impressed with the soccer ball experiment, btw!
I just wondered if during this non-marathon training time, working on being faster would get the body used to going faster and then work on miles at some of this faster frame of mind and body.

Maybe I just need to pick a pace and run as far as I can at it, then work on running farther at that faster pace.  It's simple enough.

-30-

So yesterday, I drove to Bandera, Texas (a 4 hour drive) to hike at the Hill Country State Natural Area.  This was where Reina and I hiked, when she was in San Antonio during the World Series (did y'all hear the Astros still won it, after all this time?).  Bandera is about an hour NW of San Antonio.  The odometer said it was 258 miles, door to door.

It was beautiful, clear, and in the mid 50's.  I hiked 3 or 4 trails for a total of 7.25 miles over 3 hours, which was the actual elapsed time, including looking at the map, etc.  There were a whole lot of ups and downs, as this is part of the Texas Hill Country.  The tops of the hills in this park were around 1,800 feet.  I haven't uploaded the Garmin yet, but I imagine there was 300 feet difference between where I started and hit the high.

Most of it wasn't flat.  I'm sure it's a literal walk in the park to y'all, but it was a good workout for me.  It's a place like this that I wanted to expose myself to doing and changing it up a little to work more than just running muscles.  LOTS of loose rocks.  I turned out my left ankle, one time, but because of all the ankle stretching, curb walking, etc. over the past 10 years, it didn't hurt and I just kept on going.  Whew!

I drove back, after finishing the hike.
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:21 pm

I'm with you on the long run's Doug.  I know a lot of the experts say your long run shouldn't be more than 25% of you total mileage but how in the world can slower marathoners train without getting in a 20 mile runs?  And I know I can't handle 80 mile weeks!  I think outings like your hike are excellent training.  Good choice.  Mix in some faster stuff but don't get to carried away.  I think intervals are very effective but they can also lead to injury if you're not careful. 

Your hike sounds like it was fun!  Glad the ankle didn't turn into a problem...pun intended.
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:13 am

@nkrichards wrote:I'm with you on the long run's Doug.  I know a lot of the experts say your long run shouldn't be more than 25% of you total mileage but how in the world can slower marathoners train without getting in a 20 mile runs?  And I know I can't handle 80 mile weeks!  I think outings like your hike are excellent training.  Good choice.  Mix in some faster stuff but don't get to carried away.  I think intervals are very effective but they can also lead to injury if you're not careful. 

Your hike sounds like it was fun!  Glad the ankle didn't turn into a problem...pun intended.
As long as we're doing puns...With all the talk about California now being able to sell marijuana, the only thing I've rolled lately is my ankle, yesterday.
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:14 pm

@nkrichards wrote:I'm with you on the long run's Doug.  I know a lot of the experts say your long run shouldn't be more than 25% of you total mileage but how in the world can slower marathoners train without getting in a 20 mile runs?  And I know I can't handle 80 mile weeks!  I think outings like your hike are excellent training.  Good choice.  Mix in some faster stuff but don't get to carried away.  I think intervals are very effective but they can also lead to injury if you're not careful. 

Your hike sounds like it was fun!  Glad the ankle didn't turn into a problem...pun intended.

Look into the Hanson's plan.  I might not be what you consider a slower marathoner, but the plan caps off at 16 miles for long runs.  Yes, you do run more miles during the week than other plans but it is more like 6 rather than 4 on a day with a plan like Hal's.  I have not run a 20 miler in a very long time.  When I first ran Boston off the plan in 2016, I was worried (I actually was still working with Coach Bob, but we had adapted it to fit in my work and tri stuff), but I have not felt as fresh nor as comfortable over those hills than the last two races there - both of which resulted in faster times than I had run in many years.  The principle is based on cumulative fatigue - and yes that does indeed happen as I was tired in the last couple of weeks, but the results were there.  

I also think that if you are an experienced runner, 20 might not be necessary anyway.  Bob believed in capping off my long runs at 3 hrs max which was generally no more than 18 - so similar principle.
avatar
Michele "1L" Keane
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4804
Points : 11431
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 56
Location : Cleveland (Bay Village), OH/Atlanta, GA

View user profile http://1lranthere.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:19 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:I'm with you on the long run's Doug.  I know a lot of the experts say your long run shouldn't be more than 25% of you total mileage but how in the world can slower marathoners train without getting in a 20 mile runs?  And I know I can't handle 80 mile weeks!  I think outings like your hike are excellent training.  Good choice.  Mix in some faster stuff but don't get to carried away.  I think intervals are very effective but they can also lead to injury if you're not careful. 

Your hike sounds like it was fun!  Glad the ankle didn't turn into a problem...pun intended.

Look into the Hanson's plan.  I might not be what you consider a slower marathoner, but the plan caps off at 16 miles for long runs.  Yes, you do run more miles during the week than other plans but it is more like 6 rather than 4 on a day with a plan like Hal's.  I have not run a 20 miler in a very long time.  When I first ran Boston off the plan in 2016, I was worried (I actually was still working with Coach Bob, but we had adapted it to fit in my work and tri stuff), but I have not felt as fresh nor as comfortable over those hills than the last two races there - both of which resulted in faster times than I had run in many years.  The principle is based on cumulative fatigue - and yes that does indeed happen as I was tired in the last couple of weeks, but the results were there.  

I also think that if you are an experienced runner, 20 might not be necessary anyway.  Bob believed in capping off my long runs at 3 hrs max which was generally no more than 18 - so similar principle.

Thanks for the input Michele.  I've been using a modified form of Hal's plan that only has you running 3 days a week and includes multiple 20 mile runs since I started this odyssey in 2007.  I was seeing steady improvement for the first few years but haven't had much success in the last couple years.  Who knows if it's heart, age or training related but trying something different does make sense.  I have Hanson's book.  I'll take another look at it.  I don't have plans to do another marathon anytime soon but I would think the theory is the same for any endurance event and the 70.3 will definitely be an endurance event.

It's good to know that you've had success with a plan that doesn't include multiple really long runs.  I think Tim had similar success with the Hanson plan when he qualified for Boston.  Thanks again for the input.

Hmm Doug.  Something to think about...
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Mark B on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:02 pm

Hmmm, indeed. I wonder how Hanson's plan applies -- if it would -- to ultras. Or is it more for maximizing speed and performance?

_________________
If growing up meant it would be beneath my dignity to climb a tree, I won't grow up, won't grow up, never grow up, not me.
avatar
Mark B
Needs A Life
Needs A Life

Posts : 7392
Points : 16069
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 54
Location : Vancouver, Wash.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Tim C on Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:08 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:I'm with you on the long run's Doug.  I know a lot of the experts say your long run shouldn't be more than 25% of you total mileage but how in the world can slower marathoners train without getting in a 20 mile runs?  And I know I can't handle 80 mile weeks!  I think outings like your hike are excellent training.  Good choice.  Mix in some faster stuff but don't get to carried away.  I think intervals are very effective but they can also lead to injury if you're not careful. 

Your hike sounds like it was fun!  Glad the ankle didn't turn into a problem...pun intended.

Look into the Hanson's plan.  I might not be what you consider a slower marathoner, but the plan caps off at 16 miles for long runs.  Yes, you do run more miles during the week than other plans but it is more like 6 rather than 4 on a day with a plan like Hal's.  I have not run a 20 miler in a very long time.  When I first ran Boston off the plan in 2016, I was worried (I actually was still working with Coach Bob, but we had adapted it to fit in my work and tri stuff), but I have not felt as fresh nor as comfortable over those hills than the last two races there - both of which resulted in faster times than I had run in many years.  The principle is based on cumulative fatigue - and yes that does indeed happen as I was tired in the last couple of weeks, but the results were there.  

I also think that if you are an experienced runner, 20 might not be necessary anyway.  Bob believed in capping off my long runs at 3 hrs max which was generally no more than 18 - so similar principle.

Thanks for the input Michele.  I've been using a modified form of Hal's plan that only has you running 3 days a week and includes multiple 20 mile runs since I started this odyssey in 2007.  I was seeing steady improvement for the first few years but haven't had much success in the last couple years.  Who knows if it's heart, age or training related but trying something different does make sense.  I have Hanson's book.  I'll take another look at it.  I don't have plans to do another marathon anytime soon but I would think the theory is the same for any endurance event and the 70.3 will definitely be an endurance event.

It's good to know that you've had success with a plan that doesn't include multiple really long runs.  I think Tim had similar success with the Hanson plan when he qualified for Boston.  Thanks again for the input.

Hmm Doug.  Something to think about...
I totally believe in the Hanson plan.  I do remember having some doubts about only running 16 as a long but I was also doing mid-week runs of 10-12 miles.  Running 45-60 miles a week meant the long run was a much smaller percentage of the weeks miles and I did not have to spend all week recovering from it like I did when on Hal's plan.

If I ever was going to run a marathon again (which I likely will not due to my deteriorating knee) I would follow the Hanson plan to the letter as I did for CIM.  I never felt so good so late in a marathon as I did there.
avatar
Tim C
Regular
Regular

Posts : 569
Points : 3845
Join date : 2011-07-06
Age : 61
Location : Orange County, CA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:30 pm

The beginner Hanson's plan is only 30-40 mpw - very doable.
avatar
Michele "1L" Keane
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4804
Points : 11431
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 56
Location : Cleveland (Bay Village), OH/Atlanta, GA

View user profile http://1lranthere.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:10 pm

@Tim C wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:I'm with you on the long run's Doug.  I know a lot of the experts say your long run shouldn't be more than 25% of you total mileage but how in the world can slower marathoners train without getting in a 20 mile runs?  And I know I can't handle 80 mile weeks!  I think outings like your hike are excellent training.  Good choice.  Mix in some faster stuff but don't get to carried away.  I think intervals are very effective but they can also lead to injury if you're not careful. 

Your hike sounds like it was fun!  Glad the ankle didn't turn into a problem...pun intended.

Look into the Hanson's plan.  I might not be what you consider a slower marathoner, but the plan caps off at 16 miles for long runs.  Yes, you do run more miles during the week than other plans but it is more like 6 rather than 4 on a day with a plan like Hal's.  I have not run a 20 miler in a very long time.  When I first ran Boston off the plan in 2016, I was worried (I actually was still working with Coach Bob, but we had adapted it to fit in my work and tri stuff), but I have not felt as fresh nor as comfortable over those hills than the last two races there - both of which resulted in faster times than I had run in many years.  The principle is based on cumulative fatigue - and yes that does indeed happen as I was tired in the last couple of weeks, but the results were there.  

I also think that if you are an experienced runner, 20 might not be necessary anyway.  Bob believed in capping off my long runs at 3 hrs max which was generally no more than 18 - so similar principle.

Thanks for the input Michele.  I've been using a modified form of Hal's plan that only has you running 3 days a week and includes multiple 20 mile runs since I started this odyssey in 2007.  I was seeing steady improvement for the first few years but haven't had much success in the last couple years.  Who knows if it's heart, age or training related but trying something different does make sense.  I have Hanson's book.  I'll take another look at it.  I don't have plans to do another marathon anytime soon but I would think the theory is the same for any endurance event and the 70.3 will definitely be an endurance event.

It's good to know that you've had success with a plan that doesn't include multiple really long runs.  I think Tim had similar success with the Hanson plan when he qualified for Boston.  Thanks again for the input.

Hmm Doug.  Something to think about...
I totally believe in the Hanson plan.  I do remember having some doubts about only running 16 as a long but I was also doing mid-week runs of 10-12 miles.  Running 45-60 miles a week meant the long run was a much smaller percentage of the weeks miles and I did not have to spend all week recovering from it like I did when on Hal's plan.

If I ever was going to run a marathon again (which I likely will not due to my deteriorating knee) I would follow the Hanson plan to the letter as I did for CIM.  I never felt so good so late in a marathon as I did there.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:The beginner Hanson's plan is only 30-40 mpw - very doable.

Thanks for the input Tim and Michele.
Not sure if/when I'll try another marathon but the theory is intriguing to say the least.

Sorry to hijack your blog Doug...
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Mark B on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:59 pm

Speaking of Doug, where the heck did he get to?

_________________
If growing up meant it would be beneath my dignity to climb a tree, I won't grow up, won't grow up, never grow up, not me.
avatar
Mark B
Needs A Life
Needs A Life

Posts : 7392
Points : 16069
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 54
Location : Vancouver, Wash.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:57 am

@Mark B wrote:Speaking of Doug, where the heck did he get to?

Good question...maybe he's still out on a very long run...
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:45 pm

I had read the recommendations to do the Hanson plan and I was thinking, "wtf?  Hanson's for rabbits and I'm a draft horse."  Well, I'll take a look at it.  Seems rather bizarre, but I'll look at it.  For my mental confidence, running 20-24 miles on a last or near last long run has always been part of the training because of the 6 hour time limit for an official finish.  So after the last run, if it feels like I'm in a good position to beat 6 hours, then it's very re-assuring.

Of course, if I continue to lose weight, that will be re-assuring in and of itself.

I've been reading up on potassium, lately.  Have y'all had the situation (I've had it plenty of times in races) where you have those salt lines on clothes or your hair or skin has a salty taste or feel to it?  I've found out it is because of low potassium level and salt is excreted in sweat to lower the sodium and chloride levels in the body to get it more in line with the amount of potassium in the body.  The fix? Slowly titrate your potassium citrate up over time.  Once your potassium level is more therapeutic, you won't need salt (or very little) unless you live in Houston or Hotlanta, then you might want to have 1/4-1/2 teaspoon during the summertime.  Otherwise, what salt is in your food is enough.  And there's no need to do any potassium replenishment during a race, either.  Just take the same amount of potassium citrate, like you usually do and you're fine.

Now, let me catch up on what kind of pussyfooting I have been doing.

February 1 - Go as fast as you can, as far as you can.  1.13 miles, 11:52 pace.
February 2 - 10 x ~100 yd dashes.  Did those at a time of 29-32 seconds/each in 50 degree weather.
February 5 - Ran the Devil's Loop and it actually measured 6.66 miles, this time.  Avg pace 13:47.  Not stellar at all, but it's the mileage, not the pace.
February 8 - 8 miles in 13:28 pace.  1st half pace was 13:23, 2nd half pace was 13:33.  Had some whining up high on both hamstrings and the lower glutes, for the first time.  I attribute that to the affects of dabbling in some real push ups the prior two mornings.

Push ups.  Last week, I started doing some real, live push ups to finish out that day's 100.  2/6 I did 10, 7th-15, 8th-20, 9th-15, 10th-10.  (I haven't finished all of today's, yet.  As of yesterday, YTD amount is 4,100 push ups.  Today is day 42 of 2018.

I wanted to run this past Saturday, but we had 2 inches of rain in the morning.  Tomorrow morning, it's supposed to be 36 degrees.

I thank y'all very much for the input.  I'll start investigating.
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:07 pm

Nice.  You have been busy!

Runs are looking good.  I like the short intervals at speed.  They'll help more than you expect I think.  And kudos on the pushups!

I've been doing the Hanson speed/strength workouts for a couple years and like them.  Like you, I've been leery of cutting back on the long runs.  But I'm at the point where what I'm doing isn't working anymore so I'm willing to try something different.
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:36 pm

Been working on my potassium, magnesium, calcium, and zinc too.  Didn't realize about the salt(y) thing - quite interesting.  I just know that potassium will help my blood pressure and cramping over time.  Thanks for that info though - I'll definitely keep at it!

I don't think it matters your pace for the Hanson's plan, but it sure would be worth looking at the book and plans.  I can ask the question on one of the boards if you'd like me to.  Not everyone is looking for gazelle times as I'm certain there are a number of runners on the FB page that have asked questions, etc. that are 4:45-5 hr marathoners.
avatar
Michele "1L" Keane
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4804
Points : 11431
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 56
Location : Cleveland (Bay Village), OH/Atlanta, GA

View user profile http://1lranthere.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:31 am

avatar
Michele "1L" Keane
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4804
Points : 11431
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 56
Location : Cleveland (Bay Village), OH/Atlanta, GA

View user profile http://1lranthere.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Mark B on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:47 am

Interesting about the potassium, Ounce. Do you just get the potassium citrate through a supplement store? Or could you just chow down on bananas?

Runs look good. Mixing it up is a good idea. And the pushups? That's just showing off. Wink

_________________
If growing up meant it would be beneath my dignity to climb a tree, I won't grow up, won't grow up, never grow up, not me.
avatar
Mark B
Needs A Life
Needs A Life

Posts : 7392
Points : 16069
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 54
Location : Vancouver, Wash.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:19 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Been working on my potassium, magnesium, calcium, and zinc too.  Didn't realize about the salt(y) thing - quite interesting.  I just know that potassium will help my blood pressure and cramping over time.  Thanks for that info though - I'll definitely keep at it!

I don't think it matters your pace for the Hanson's plan, but it sure would be worth looking at the book and plans.  I can ask the question on one of the boards if you'd like me to.  Not everyone is looking for gazelle times as I'm certain there are a number of runners on the FB page that have asked questions, etc. that are 4:45-5 hr marathoners.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Some food for thought regarding Hanson's plan:

https://hansonscoachingservices.com/marathon-race-strategy-a-few-thoughts/

@Mark B wrote:Interesting about the potassium, Ounce. Do you just get the potassium citrate through a supplement store? Or could you just chow down on bananas?

Runs look good. Mixing it up is a good idea. And the pushups? That's just showing off. Wink

  Scanned the Hanson article.  Looks interesting.  I'll read it thoroughly later.  It does seem to indicate that he's recommending it and has worked with slower marathoners.

The potassium is intriguing.  I'm also curious how you supplement your potassium.  I have no problem eating lots of bananas...I love them.  And I use NUUN and other electrolyte products but I'm not convinced I want/need to take a potassium supplement.  You've got me curious...
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Nice.  You have been busy!

Runs are looking good.  I like the short intervals at speed.  They'll help more than you expect I think.  And kudos on the pushups!

I've been doing the Hanson speed/strength workouts for a couple years and like them.  Like you, I've been leery of cutting back on the long runs.  But I'm at the point where what I'm doing isn't working anymore so I'm willing to try something different.
Well, I don't see anything special about the mid-length runs, but the 1.13 run was a "How far can I run at a 12 minute pace?"  Pushups are not getting any harder, which is why I'm working on the traditional pushup in baby steps.
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Been working on my potassium, magnesium, calcium, and zinc too.  Didn't realize about the salt(y) thing - quite interesting.  I just know that potassium will help my blood pressure and cramping over time.  Thanks for that info though - I'll definitely keep at it!

I don't think it matters your pace for the Hanson's plan, but it sure would be worth looking at the book and plans.  I can ask the question on one of the boards if you'd like me to.  Not everyone is looking for gazelle times as I'm certain there are a number of runners on the FB page that have asked questions, etc. that are 4:45-5 hr marathoners.
Good for you!  You may want to look into vitamin D3, as well.  RDA is supposed to be woefully low.  I'm taking 10 grams a day.  On potassium, I'm up to 3 grams (3,000 mg) a day, which is a rounded 1/2 tablespoon.  I could go all the way up to 6 grams a day, without any issues.
Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Some food for thought regarding Hanson's plan:

https://hansonscoachingservices.com/marathon-race-strategy-a-few-thoughts/
I will start metabolizing the food.  Thanks.
@Mark B wrote:Interesting about the potassium, Ounce. Do you just get the potassium citrate through a supplement store? Or could you just chow down on bananas?

Runs look good. Mixing it up is a good idea. And the pushups? That's just showing off. Wink
Yes, Mark, in powder form as the capsules are not economical to take for the dosage I take (99mg a capsule).  A banana has 422 mg of potassium, so I'd have to eat 7-8 a day, which wouldn't work for me, as I'm trying to keep carbs low.

I take 3 grams a day, as mentioned above, which equates to 1/2 tbsp.  So each 1/2 teaspoon equates to 1 gram of potassium or a little more than 1 banana.  The Harvard link below shows the different foods with potassium and sodium.  Y'all may be getting 3-5 grams a day, just by eating.  Which is great!

If you aim for a 4:1 potassium to sodium ratio on a daily basis, then the need for sodium is very minimal, even in a race because the body self-regulates potassium and sodium.  Look at the SFGate link below.  If there's too much sodium, the body just sweats it off or pees it out.  So, why take an S!Cap for sodium replenishment if your potassium is fine?  Even Gatorade.  Only in hot 'n humid environments (where sweat doesn't evaporate easily), like Houston or Hotlanta, would require up to 1/2 teaspoon of sodium a day.

Harvard article:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sodium-potassium-balance/

SFGate article:
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/relationships-between-salt-potassium-6609.html

As far as buying the powder, I've bought it on amazon and iherb.com.  Iherb is cheaper, once you hit the $20 minimum.
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-Potassium-Citrate-Pure-Powder-12-oz-340-g/69741

https://smile.amazon.com/Potassium-Citrate-Powder-300grams-product/dp/B00UI9F01C/ref=sr_1_7_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1518573073&sr=1-7&keywords=potassium+citrate

Nancy, I wrote most of this during to your post.  No need for Nuun, in my opinion if you're eating enough or taking the powder

Keep in mind that blood pressure meds have a lot of potassium in them.  Potassium is why veins and arteries are more pliable.

It's sad that manufacturers are still creating sodium products for something unnecessary.  Not only are we pissing away the extra sodium, but we're pissing away money.

-30-

This morning, it was 42 degrees.  Up 10 from yesterday morning.  I ran 8 miles at an overall pace of 13:38, 1st half pace at 13:23 and 2nd half pace of 13:53.  It went fine, but I was a little sluggish for this first run of the week.  In the final tenth, I go by what looks like a Sabal Minor palm tree and I have to move one of the palms out of my eye line.  Today, I was just a little low on the stalk and sliced my index finger (2nd joint), the thumb (base joint), and the meaty part of my thumb. The index finger got the worst of it, but not so deep as to need stitches.  But I was sure bleeding!  Quite a surprise at 6:15 in the morning.

I applied pressure, ran the rest, then applied pressure with a sock I carry with me, mostly for wiping my head.  The platelets kicked in and I was fine.  Took a shower, bandaged them up with 3 band-aids, and I was off to donate some platelets.

One thing I failed to mention about last Friday's 10 x 100 sprints was for the next 2 days, the belly of both quads were tight and stiff, as if I might have overdone something.  Hmmm.

You made it to the end!  Thanks for all of the comments.
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:29 am

Oh, and Mark, I forgot to reply to your pushup comment.

tongue 

lol. Laughing
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:36 pm

You really started an interesting conversation on potassium Doug.  Thanks for bringing it up here...and providing links to excellent articles.  As I was reading I began to wonder what my potassium levels actually were.  I went back and looked at my blood tests and low and behold they report Sodium, Potassium and Calcium levels among other things.  Unfortunately I didn't see Magnesium or Zinc levels.  So...my Potassium levels on every test...I went back as far as 2007...are near the upper level for normal or slightly over.  Same with my Sodium and Calcium.   Doesn't look like I'll be taking supplements...  I'm wondering if I can cut back on the S caps?  I don't take them often but do take them for long workouts once the weather warms up.

Interesting topic...thanks.
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:30 pm

@nkrichards wrote:You really started an interesting conversation on potassium Doug.  Thanks for bringing it up here...and providing links to excellent articles.  As I was reading I began to wonder what my potassium levels actually were.  I went back and looked at my blood tests and low and behold they report Sodium, Potassium and Calcium levels among other things.  Unfortunately I didn't see Magnesium or Zinc levels.  So...my Potassium levels on every test...I went back as far as 2007...are near the upper level for normal or slightly over.  Same with my Sodium and Calcium.   Doesn't look like I'll be taking supplements...  I'm wondering if I can cut back on the S caps?  I don't take them often but do take them for long workouts once the weather warms up.

Interesting topic...thanks.
I would agree with you on the potassium.  The target blood level is 4.2 for both people doing LC/HF and those not.  Potassium in the blood is on its way to inside the cells.  It doesn't do any good in the blood, itself.  The blood is serving as the train to the cells.  I'm told taking 6 grams (6,000 mg) is perfectly fine, in both food and supplements.

Regarding S!Caps and potassium, each S!Cap has ~200 mg of sodium and 23 mg of potassium.  You should be ingesting, and you are, 4,200 mg of potassium on a daily basis.  So, the potassium in S!Cap is a pittance.  From my own experience, S!Caps give me some clarity during a long run.  And 200 mg is about 7% of one's daily intake requirement.

Knowing that for me, I could go back to eating Fig Newtons to get clarity.  However, S!Caps don't take up much room in my short's pocket.  Good thing, I believe, is that if you keep up with the proper amount of potassium taken each day, it doesn't need replenishing during the race.

So, Nancy, you could drink gatorade, too, or pop a nuun.
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:17 pm

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:You really started an interesting conversation on potassium Doug.  Thanks for bringing it up here...and providing links to excellent articles.  As I was reading I began to wonder what my potassium levels actually were.  I went back and looked at my blood tests and low and behold they report Sodium, Potassium and Calcium levels among other things.  Unfortunately I didn't see Magnesium or Zinc levels.  So...my Potassium levels on every test...I went back as far as 2007...are near the upper level for normal or slightly over.  Same with my Sodium and Calcium.   Doesn't look like I'll be taking supplements...  I'm wondering if I can cut back on the S caps?  I don't take them often but do take them for long workouts once the weather warms up.

Interesting topic...thanks.
I would agree with you on the potassium.  The target blood level is 4.2 for both people doing LC/HF and those not.  Potassium in the blood is on its way to inside the cells.  It doesn't do any good in the blood, itself.  The blood is serving as the train to the cells.  I'm told taking 6 grams (6,000 mg) is perfectly fine, in both food and supplements.

Regarding S!Caps and potassium, each S!Cap has ~200 mg of sodium and 23 mg of potassium.  You should be ingesting, and you are, 4,200 mg of potassium on a daily basis.  So, the potassium in S!Cap is a pittance.  From my own experience, S!Caps give me some clarity during a long run.  And 200 mg is about 7% of one's daily intake requirement.

Knowing that for me, I could go back to eating Fig Newtons to get clarity.  However, S!Caps don't take up much room in my short's pocket.  Good thing, I believe, is that if you keep up with the proper amount of potassium taken each day, it doesn't need replenishing during the race.

So, Nancy, you could drink gatorade, too, or pop a nuun.

So here's my blood test results.
                   Sodium   Potassium  Calcium    
11/19/07      138        5.2            10.6
11/16/09      140        5.7            10.1
11/10/11      140        5.5             9.6
 9/24/13       141        4.1             9.8
11/10/16      139        4.0             9.6
  9/6/17        141        4.7             9.6
10/04/17      143        5.5             10.0

Normal      132-143   3.6-5.1     8.4-10.2

I obviously don't need to take Potassium or Calcium supplements as they are both consistently at or slightly above normal levels. 

Thoughts on Sodium levels.  I don't watch the salt in my diet at all.  It didn't make sense to limit my salt intake and then take electrolytes with lots of salt.  I guess I still need to take the electrolytes during races/hard efforts (???)

Why do the electrolytes have so much more salt than potassium?
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:39 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:You really started an interesting conversation on potassium Doug.  Thanks for bringing it up here...and providing links to excellent articles.  As I was reading I began to wonder what my potassium levels actually were.  I went back and looked at my blood tests and low and behold they report Sodium, Potassium and Calcium levels among other things.  Unfortunately I didn't see Magnesium or Zinc levels.  So...my Potassium levels on every test...I went back as far as 2007...are near the upper level for normal or slightly over.  Same with my Sodium and Calcium.   Doesn't look like I'll be taking supplements...  I'm wondering if I can cut back on the S caps?  I don't take them often but do take them for long workouts once the weather warms up.

Interesting topic...thanks.
I would agree with you on the potassium.  The target blood level is 4.2 for both people doing LC/HF and those not.  Potassium in the blood is on its way to inside the cells.  It doesn't do any good in the blood, itself.  The blood is serving as the train to the cells.  I'm told taking 6 grams (6,000 mg) is perfectly fine, in both food and supplements.

Regarding S!Caps and potassium, each S!Cap has ~200 mg of sodium and 23 mg of potassium.  You should be ingesting, and you are, 4,200 mg of potassium on a daily basis.  So, the potassium in S!Cap is a pittance.  From my own experience, S!Caps give me some clarity during a long run.  And 200 mg is about 7% of one's daily intake requirement.

Knowing that for me, I could go back to eating Fig Newtons to get clarity.  However, S!Caps don't take up much room in my short's pocket.  Good thing, I believe, is that if you keep up with the proper amount of potassium taken each day, it doesn't need replenishing during the race.

So, Nancy, you could drink gatorade, too, or pop a nuun.

So here's my blood test results.
                   Sodium   Potassium  Calcium    
11/19/07      138        5.2            10.6
11/16/09      140        5.7            10.1
11/10/11      140        5.5             9.6
 9/24/13       141        4.1             9.8
11/10/16      139        4.0             9.6
  9/6/17        141        4.7             9.6
10/04/17      143        5.5             10.0

Normal      132-143   3.6-5.1     8.4-10.2

I obviously don't need to take Potassium or Calcium supplements as they are both consistently at or slightly above normal levels. 

Thoughts on Sodium levels.  I don't watch the salt in my diet at all.  It didn't make sense to limit my salt intake and then take electrolytes with lots of salt.  I guess I still need to take the electrolytes during races/hard efforts (???)

Why do the electrolytes have so much more salt than potassium?
I would agree with you, Nancy.  With your potassium level in good shape, you don't have to watch your sodium  AND I don't believe you need to take any sodium during a race unless you're in the South any time between April to October.  Having said that, this past summer (when my potassium intake was at 2 grams/day and didn't know the relationship between potassium and salt) I would take S!Caps along with me for clarity of mind.

So, I would see what a Nuun does for you on a basis not involving you needing salt.  For me, it's clarity just like an Oreo or Fig Newton would do for me.  I didn't know that sodium would give me the same kick that sugar would.

People have been sold on the idea that salt is necessary and it's cheap to add.  Morton Salt in the pound container is less than a buck (I don't know what it costs now).  Potassium Citrate is between $0.70-$1 an ounce.

To me, the best thing about potassium in the running realm is that I don't have to replenish it during a race, as long as I'm taking it every day.

-30-

This past Friday, it was 68 degrees and 100%.  Grrrr.  Well, it was what it was.  I ran 10 miles at a 14:08 pace, 1st half was 13:33 (which was a shocker) and 14:43 for the 2nd half.  Seemed like a reasonable pace, albeit slow, for almost 70 degrees.

This week, I will not be able to run, so that was part of the reason for the distance, last Friday.  I would've ran 12 miles, but I did not hear my alarm clock for 30 minutes, which equated 2 miles.
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  nkrichards on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:41 am

Seems like we're all struggling to get good solid training in...and struggling to post on a regular basis as well.  Tough to get excited about posting when we don't have solid training...or tough runs...to post about.
avatar
nkrichards
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 2119
Points : 7328
Join date : 2011-07-27
Age : 60
Location : Sunny Central Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  ounce on Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:11 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Seems like we're all struggling to get good solid training in...and struggling to post on a regular basis as well.  Tough to get excited about posting when we don't have solid training...or tough runs...to post about.

Yup.  This week, I only got out twice.  Once on Wednesday to try to do 8, but not running for about 10 days did take it's toll to the tune of running about 3/4th's of a mile and walking about 4.  It was 70 degrees.

This morning, I wanted to do 8, but did run the Devil's Loop (6.66 miles) and it was 53 degrees!  A heat wave for y'all, but a cool snap for us.  The first two miles were the type that makes you wonder if you could complete the next one.  Well, I did and just figured I needed to keep the legs moving.  The overall pace was 13:38, with both half paces at 13:38, too.  I don't remember ever having the same pace for each half.

I plan on running more, next week, and I'm still doing the 100 push ups a day.  Yesterday made 6,000.  I was stagnant on improving because I was just trying to get the 100 in by splitting it up usually by doing 30/30/20/20.  So once or twice this week, I did push ups almost to fail.  That became 45/25/20/10.  I could only do it twice this week.  And that could be a good method.  Push a couple of days, then just log the 100 in a peanut butter effect on other days.

Even a threat of posting more!  Y'all have a good weekend.
avatar
ounce
Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

Posts : 4885
Points : 13520
Join date : 2011-06-26
Age : 61
Location : houston

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Term Limits?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 7 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum