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Trails for Two

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:42 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:... the only one that has to worry about being left out there dangling is Mark...

affraid

Sounds..... nippy.
I was thinking more the 'turtle effect,' but whatever!
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:46 am

Turtle effect. Yeah, in these temps, that'll do.

---

Easy run: 1.44 miles with Alita

Weather: Mostly starry, chilly. 34° Gear: Topos, pants, T, heavier pullover, jacket, hat, gloves.

We didn't manage to get our run in this morning, but we were committed to keep the streak alive and went out for a mile and change after dinner. It was a pretty night, with stars and the moon peeking out behind a band of high clouds.

We ran mostly in the 10s, with a little kick into the 9s at the end.

Walked first 5 minutes, last 3 minutes or so.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:18 am

Easy Run: 2.25 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, chilly. 33° Gear: Topos, tights, T, pullover, jacket, hat, gloves.

Alita had a bad headache this morning so I went out solo. Brr. Chilly out, especially in the warm up walk. I was feeling the walk yesterday and run only 8 hours earlier, so I did a bit over two miles. It was enough.

Walked first and last 5 minutes.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:23 pm

@Mark B wrote:Easy Run: 2.25 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, chilly. 33° Gear: Topos, tights, T, pullover, jacket, hat, gloves.

Alita had a bad headache this morning so I went out solo. Brr. Chilly out, especially in the warm up walk. I was feeling the walk yesterday and run only 8 hours earlier, so I did a bit over two miles. It was enough.

Walked first and last 5 minutes.
Well, y'all can opt to make the streak a household event, if she's too indisposed to run, tonight.  Though, somehow I think she'll take one for the household and get her mile in.  Keep it going, young feller!
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:30 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Easy Run: 2.25 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, chilly. 33° Gear: Topos, tights, T, pullover, jacket, hat, gloves.

Alita had a bad headache this morning so I went out solo. Brr. Chilly out, especially in the warm up walk. I was feeling the walk yesterday and run only 8 hours earlier, so I did a bit over two miles. It was enough.

Walked first and last 5 minutes.
Well, y'all can opt to make the streak a household event, if she's too indisposed to run, tonight.  Though, somehow I think she'll take one for the household and get her mile in.  Keep it going, young feller!

I think that's a safe bet. She's dedicated! (17 days so far, after starting Dec. 19)

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:14 am

Easy Run: 1.48 miles with Alita

Weather: Overcast, mildish. 44° Gear: Topos, pants, T, heavier pullover, jacked, hat, gloves.

Our morning run didn't happen again today - we need to maybe figure out a better system because 4 a.m. doesn't seem to be working out anymore - so we went after I got home from work. We decided to keep it short if only to keep the streak alive (though there are, of course, other benefits). We overdressed a little intentionally, since it was looking to be windy and rainy, and it turned out not rainy and not really windy, either. Good thing we were only going a short distance, or we would have cooked!

We kept it relaxed, though I caught us running in the 10s again. We'll need to temper that, probably, as we get the distances longer.

Walked first and last 5 minutes.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:05 pm

It's always nice when a run feels easy and you go faster than expected but it is hard to rein yourself in and run at an appropriate pace.  That darn Fast Freddie.  Hope he's enjoying his time in Vancouver and decides to stay in your household even when I return to running on a regular basis.

From your previous post I assume that a walk doesn't count...it has to be a run of at least one mile?

Impressed with your commitment even when it's inconvenient!
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:17 pm

@nkrichards wrote:It's always nice when a run feels easy and you go faster than expected but it is hard to rein yourself in and run at an appropriate pace.  That darn Fast Freddie.  Hope he's enjoying his time in Vancouver and decides to stay in your household even when I return to running on a regular basis.

From your previous post I assume that a walk doesn't count...it has to be a run of at least one mile?

Impressed with your commitment even when it's inconvenient!

I'm letting Fast Freddie have a little fun. He's helping boost aerobic capacity and building a little confidence along the way. We both know that if we're to do stupid long distances, we'll have to find a "run all day (and night)" pace that will undoubtedly be slower.

The way I understand the "official" streak rules, a walk does not count. You have to run at least a mile every day. For us, that means 1.5 miles, with the appropriate warm up and cool down. But really, a streak is whatever anybody wants it to be. (Though there is a website out there for streakers that ranks them, runners being competitive little nerds that they are, and there are people who say they've maintained a streak for 45+ years. I find it hard to believe they didn't get stuck in the bed with the flu at least once, but hey....)


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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:36 pm

Easy Run with Alita: 1.5 miles

Weather: Partly cloudy, milder, cool breeze. 48° Gear: Topos, shorts, long-sleeved T, jacket, gloves.

Out for a quick run today. Paces in the 11s mostly, but some in the 10s. We surged at the end and briefly hit an 8:30 pace before shutting it down.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:24 pm

I didn't think Mark had a Fast Freddie.  I thought his was Ravishing Ronald (on the left).

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:48 am

@ounce wrote:I didn't think Mark had a Fast Freddie.  I thought his was Ravishing Ronald (on the left).


Why am I not surprised you could draw from the well of Chuck Jones' classics?

lol!

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:06 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:I didn't think Mark had a Fast Freddie.  I thought his was Ravishing Ronald (on the left).


Why am I not surprised you could draw from the well of Chuck Jones' classics?

lol!
Why, it was as a result of waking up at 6 a.m. on Saturdays to watch cartoons until noon, when I was a little squirt.  Warner Bros are my favorite cartoons, but Space Ghost of Hanna-Barbera was my favorite character.  Very difficult to find a genuine animation cel from that series.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:19 am

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:I didn't think Mark had a Fast Freddie.  I thought his was Ravishing Ronald (on the left).


Why am I not surprised you could draw from the well of Chuck Jones' classics?

lol!
Why, it was as a result of waking up at 6 a.m. on Saturdays to watch cartoons until noon, when I was a little squirt.  Warner Bros are my favorite cartoons, but Space Ghost of Hanna-Barbera was my favorite character.  Very difficult to find a genuine animation cel from that series.


Ah, Space Ghost. It must have been on one of those channels we didn't get in Eugene back in the day (we only had 2.5 channels at the time), so I missed it.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:24 am

For those of you keeping score at home, the streak ended at 19 days in a row.

We both noticed that our minimum run distance of a little more than a mile was starting to become our maximum run distance, too. It's supposed to be fun, not a crushing obligation. We decided to take the break last night after never seeming to get around to heading outside (it was cold and rainy all day, which didn't help) and didn't feel like doing a mile on the treadmill after dinner.

It's a little disappointing, but then again I was developing a niggle in my right hip. Running ourselves into the ground is probably a poor strategy.

We'll regroup and see what happens next. Might be a new streak, or something else.


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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:38 pm

@Mark B wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, the streak ended at 19 days in a row.

We both noticed that our minimum run distance of a little more than a mile was starting to become our maximum run distance, too. It's supposed to be fun, not a crushing obligation. We decided to take the break last night after never seeming to get around to heading outside (it was cold and rainy all day, which didn't help) and didn't feel like doing a mile on the treadmill after dinner.

It's a little disappointing, but then again I was developing a niggle in my right hip. Running ourselves into the ground is probably a poor strategy.

We'll regroup and see what happens next. Might be a new streak, or something else.

Arrrgh!  Dammit all to hell!!!

Okay, got that out of my system.  Well, I was hoping I could draw something from y'all running daily.  Heal up, grasshoppahs.  I have a non-running streak going, but I'm holding on to it until I'm comfortable to come out with it.

Space Ghost was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.  ABC was the king of Saturday morning cartoons in the 60's and early 70's, so I figure it was there.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:15 am

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, the streak ended at 19 days in a row.

We both noticed that our minimum run distance of a little more than a mile was starting to become our maximum run distance, too. It's supposed to be fun, not a crushing obligation. We decided to take the break last night after never seeming to get around to heading outside (it was cold and rainy all day, which didn't help) and didn't feel like doing a mile on the treadmill after dinner.

It's a little disappointing, but then again I was developing a niggle in my right hip. Running ourselves into the ground is probably a poor strategy.

We'll regroup and see what happens next. Might be a new streak, or something else.

Arrrgh!  Dammit all to hell!!!

Okay, got that out of my system.  Well, I was hoping I could draw something from y'all running daily.  Heal up, grasshoppahs.  I have a non-running streak going, but I'm holding on to it until I'm comfortable to come out with it.

Space Ghost was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.  ABC was the king of Saturday morning cartoons in the 60's and early 70's, so I figure it was there.

Yeah, sorry I spoiled your fun watching what could have been a train wreck. I think daily running could work, it's just this was a weird situation. We started on a whim after one of Alita's co-workers asked her to run daily to keep her motivated -- which lasted about a week, until she lost her motivation, anyway. Then it was just us, and we had to ask ourselves why we were doing it. Then it became a chore. Which lowered mileage. Which made it seem pointless. Etc.

But again, given the right reasons, it might still work for us. We just need to regroup. (I think it'd be easier when it's not dark for 2/3 of the day. I could handle running at 7 p.m. if it's not pitch black outside and having dinner afterward. The 4 a.m. patrol offers more time, objectively, but it's cold and dark, and it's awfully hard to get moving sometimes. Especially if it was 5 days out of the week.

I did get a 2.3 mile walk in today during lunch, though. That was nice.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:58 am

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, the streak ended at 19 days in a row.

We both noticed that our minimum run distance of a little more than a mile was starting to become our maximum run distance, too. It's supposed to be fun, not a crushing obligation. We decided to take the break last night after never seeming to get around to heading outside (it was cold and rainy all day, which didn't help) and didn't feel like doing a mile on the treadmill after dinner.

It's a little disappointing, but then again I was developing a niggle in my right hip. Running ourselves into the ground is probably a poor strategy.

We'll regroup and see what happens next. Might be a new streak, or something else.

Arrrgh!  Dammit all to hell!!!

Okay, got that out of my system.  Well, I was hoping I could draw something from y'all running daily.  Heal up, grasshoppahs.  I have a non-running streak going, but I'm holding on to it until I'm comfortable to come out with it.

Space Ghost was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.  ABC was the king of Saturday morning cartoons in the 60's and early 70's, so I figure it was there.

Yeah, sorry I spoiled your fun watching what could have been a train wreck. I think daily running could work, it's just this was a weird situation. We started on a whim after one of Alita's co-workers asked her to run daily to keep her motivated -- which lasted about a week, until she lost her motivation, anyway. Then it was just us, and we had to ask ourselves why we were doing it. Then it became a chore. Which lowered mileage. Which made it seem pointless. Etc.

But again, given the right reasons, it might still work for us. We just need to regroup. (I think it'd be easier when it's not dark for 2/3 of the day. I could handle running at 7 p.m. if it's not pitch black outside and having dinner afterward. The 4 a.m. patrol offers more time, objectively, but it's cold and dark, and it's awfully hard to get moving sometimes. Especially if it was 5 days out of the week.

I did get a 2.3 mile walk in today during lunch, though. That was nice.

It was fun but I totally understand and agree with your reasons for calling it quits.  Maybe your streak needs to have different rules.  I looked at a challenge the other day that gave you a free pass after meeting your daily goals for a set amount of time.  It's all about finding/reaching a goal that meets your needs and fits in with your lifestyle. 

Good luck and HAVE FUN!
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:37 am

@nkrichards wrote:It was fun but I totally understand and agree with your reasons for calling it quits.  Maybe your streak needs to have different rules.  I looked at a challenge the other day that gave you a free pass after meeting your daily goals for a set amount of time.  It's all about finding/reaching a goal that meets your needs and fits in with your lifestyle. 

Good luck and HAVE FUN!

Thanks, Nancy! If we want to do the 24-hour event, we'll need to get into a routine soon. But right now we're taking it day by day.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:14 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, the streak ended at 19 days in a row.

We both noticed that our minimum run distance of a little more than a mile was starting to become our maximum run distance, too. It's supposed to be fun, not a crushing obligation. We decided to take the break last night after never seeming to get around to heading outside (it was cold and rainy all day, which didn't help) and didn't feel like doing a mile on the treadmill after dinner.

It's a little disappointing, but then again I was developing a niggle in my right hip. Running ourselves into the ground is probably a poor strategy.

We'll regroup and see what happens next. Might be a new streak, or something else.

Arrrgh!  Dammit all to hell!!!

Okay, got that out of my system.  Well, I was hoping I could draw something from y'all running daily.  Heal up, grasshoppahs.  I have a non-running streak going, but I'm holding on to it until I'm comfortable to come out with it.

Space Ghost was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.  ABC was the king of Saturday morning cartoons in the 60's and early 70's, so I figure it was there.

Yeah, sorry I spoiled your fun watching what could have been a train wreck. I think daily running could work, it's just this was a weird situation. We started on a whim after one of Alita's co-workers asked her to run daily to keep her motivated -- which lasted about a week, until she lost her motivation, anyway. Then it was just us, and we had to ask ourselves why we were doing it. Then it became a chore. Which lowered mileage. Which made it seem pointless. Etc.

But again, given the right reasons, it might still work for us. We just need to regroup. (I think it'd be easier when it's not dark for 2/3 of the day. I could handle running at 7 p.m. if it's not pitch black outside and having dinner afterward. The 4 a.m. patrol offers more time, objectively, but it's cold and dark, and it's awfully hard to get moving sometimes. Especially if it was 5 days out of the week.

I did get a 2.3 mile walk in today during lunch, though. That was nice.

It was fun but I totally understand and agree with your reasons for calling it quits.  Maybe your streak needs to have different rules.  I looked at a challenge the other day that gave you a free pass after meeting your daily goals for a set amount of time.  It's all about finding/reaching a goal that meets your needs and fits in with your lifestyle. 

Good luck and HAVE FUN!
Well, I had no idea or desire to see a train wreck.  Your attempt at daily did get me to thinking about doing something similar.  I disliked only being able to train two days a week, back in the summer for the 100K, so maybe getting the body used to being out there 5 days a week could train the body to get with the program of higher frequency.

Ultre, y'all!
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:36 am

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, the streak ended at 19 days in a row.

We both noticed that our minimum run distance of a little more than a mile was starting to become our maximum run distance, too. It's supposed to be fun, not a crushing obligation. We decided to take the break last night after never seeming to get around to heading outside (it was cold and rainy all day, which didn't help) and didn't feel like doing a mile on the treadmill after dinner.

It's a little disappointing, but then again I was developing a niggle in my right hip. Running ourselves into the ground is probably a poor strategy.

We'll regroup and see what happens next. Might be a new streak, or something else.

Arrrgh!  Dammit all to hell!!!

Okay, got that out of my system.  Well, I was hoping I could draw something from y'all running daily.  Heal up, grasshoppahs.  I have a non-running streak going, but I'm holding on to it until I'm comfortable to come out with it.

Space Ghost was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.  ABC was the king of Saturday morning cartoons in the 60's and early 70's, so I figure it was there.

Yeah, sorry I spoiled your fun watching what could have been a train wreck. I think daily running could work, it's just this was a weird situation. We started on a whim after one of Alita's co-workers asked her to run daily to keep her motivated -- which lasted about a week, until she lost her motivation, anyway. Then it was just us, and we had to ask ourselves why we were doing it. Then it became a chore. Which lowered mileage. Which made it seem pointless. Etc.

But again, given the right reasons, it might still work for us. We just need to regroup. (I think it'd be easier when it's not dark for 2/3 of the day. I could handle running at 7 p.m. if it's not pitch black outside and having dinner afterward. The 4 a.m. patrol offers more time, objectively, but it's cold and dark, and it's awfully hard to get moving sometimes. Especially if it was 5 days out of the week.

I did get a 2.3 mile walk in today during lunch, though. That was nice.

It was fun but I totally understand and agree with your reasons for calling it quits.  Maybe your streak needs to have different rules.  I looked at a challenge the other day that gave you a free pass after meeting your daily goals for a set amount of time.  It's all about finding/reaching a goal that meets your needs and fits in with your lifestyle. 

Good luck and HAVE FUN!
Well, I had no idea or desire to see a train wreck.  Your attempt at daily did get me to thinking about doing something similar.  I disliked only being able to train two days a week, back in the summer for the 100K, so maybe getting the body used to being out there 5 days a week could train the body to get with the program of higher frequency.

Ultre, y'all!

Oh! Well, don't let the early termination of our experiment scare you away. There was something else going on (some seasonal affective disorder, we think) that's been making it hard to maintain motivation for things right now. We're trying to address that in hopes that things will go better.

I think that higher frequency lower mileage (or at least alternating) might help you acclimate to hotter conditions better than two days a week. Consistent stimulus to the system can make a big difference. Our fitness and paces were improving a lot just with the shorter runs we were doing. It was great base-building.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:39 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, the streak ended at 19 days in a row.

We both noticed that our minimum run distance of a little more than a mile was starting to become our maximum run distance, too. It's supposed to be fun, not a crushing obligation. We decided to take the break last night after never seeming to get around to heading outside (it was cold and rainy all day, which didn't help) and didn't feel like doing a mile on the treadmill after dinner.

It's a little disappointing, but then again I was developing a niggle in my right hip. Running ourselves into the ground is probably a poor strategy.

We'll regroup and see what happens next. Might be a new streak, or something else.

Arrrgh!  Dammit all to hell!!!

Okay, got that out of my system.  Well, I was hoping I could draw something from y'all running daily.  Heal up, grasshoppahs.  I have a non-running streak going, but I'm holding on to it until I'm comfortable to come out with it.

Space Ghost was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.  ABC was the king of Saturday morning cartoons in the 60's and early 70's, so I figure it was there.

Yeah, sorry I spoiled your fun watching what could have been a train wreck. I think daily running could work, it's just this was a weird situation. We started on a whim after one of Alita's co-workers asked her to run daily to keep her motivated -- which lasted about a week, until she lost her motivation, anyway. Then it was just us, and we had to ask ourselves why we were doing it. Then it became a chore. Which lowered mileage. Which made it seem pointless. Etc.

But again, given the right reasons, it might still work for us. We just need to regroup. (I think it'd be easier when it's not dark for 2/3 of the day. I could handle running at 7 p.m. if it's not pitch black outside and having dinner afterward. The 4 a.m. patrol offers more time, objectively, but it's cold and dark, and it's awfully hard to get moving sometimes. Especially if it was 5 days out of the week.

I did get a 2.3 mile walk in today during lunch, though. That was nice.

It was fun but I totally understand and agree with your reasons for calling it quits.  Maybe your streak needs to have different rules.  I looked at a challenge the other day that gave you a free pass after meeting your daily goals for a set amount of time.  It's all about finding/reaching a goal that meets your needs and fits in with your lifestyle. 

Good luck and HAVE FUN!
Well, I had no idea or desire to see a train wreck.  Your attempt at daily did get me to thinking about doing something similar.  I disliked only being able to train two days a week, back in the summer for the 100K, so maybe getting the body used to being out there 5 days a week could train the body to get with the program of higher frequency.

Ultre, y'all!

Oh! Well, don't let the early termination of our experiment scare you away. There was something else going on (some seasonal affective disorder, we think) that's been making it hard to maintain motivation for things right now. We're trying to address that in hopes that things will go better.

I think that higher frequency lower mileage (or at least alternating) might help you acclimate to hotter conditions better than two days a week. Consistent stimulus to the system can make a big difference. Our fitness and paces were improving a lot just with the shorter runs we were doing. It was great base-building.

I like the flexibility of my swimming friend Anita's New Year's Resolution.  Her resolution is to swim 25,000 yards each month this year.  But she's decided it's OK to carry over yards as long as her average for the year is enough.  Then she realized that the pool was going to be closed the month of April for some repairs.  She considered just swimming extra in other months to make up for her month off and then decided she would run that month instead.  She'll meet the intent of her resolution.  I think all goals should be flexible like that!

Hope the running is going well.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:15 pm

Sounds like a great approach, Nancy. Flexiblity is good. 

What’s NOT good is thus flu bug I’ve been hit by since this weekend. Fever, headache, chest-splitting cough, muscle aches. I’m not totally floored by it, but enough to know I’m not going to be at work tomorrow.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:50 pm

@Mark B wrote:Sounds like a great approach, Nancy. Flexiblity is good. 

What’s NOT good is thus flu bug I’ve been hit by since this weekend. Fever, headache, chest-splitting cough, muscle aches. I’m not totally floored by it, but enough to know I’m not going to be at work tomorrow.

Uh oh...not you too!  I wouldn't think they would want you at work.  The strain that's going around this year is nasty.  Take care of yourself.  I know we caught ours in Nepal but I've heard of others in this area that also ended up with pneumonia.

Maybe you could infect Fast Freddy...
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:33 am

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Sounds like a great approach, Nancy. Flexiblity is good. 

What’s NOT good is thus flu bug I’ve been hit by since this weekend. Fever, headache, chest-splitting cough, muscle aches. I’m not totally floored by it, but enough to know I’m not going to be at work tomorrow.

Uh oh...not you too!  I wouldn't think they would want you at work.  The strain that's going around this year is nasty.  Take care of yourself.  I know we caught ours in Nepal but I've heard of others in this area that also ended up with pneumonia.

Maybe you could infect Fast Freddy...
Nancy, I think we should wash our hands after posting anything in his blog AND after he posts in our respective blogs.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:08 pm

@ounce wrote:
@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Sounds like a great approach, Nancy. Flexiblity is good. 

What’s NOT good is thus flu bug I’ve been hit by since this weekend. Fever, headache, chest-splitting cough, muscle aches. I’m not totally floored by it, but enough to know I’m not going to be at work tomorrow.

Uh oh...not you too!  I wouldn't think they would want you at work.  The strain that's going around this year is nasty.  Take care of yourself.  I know we caught ours in Nepal but I've heard of others in this area that also ended up with pneumonia.

Maybe you could infect Fast Freddy...
Nancy, I think we should wash our hands after posting anything in his blog AND after he posts in our respective blogs.

I've had it.  I've got antibodies...I hope!
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