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Trails for Two

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:19 pm

My "marathon in a chair" ended up being a half marathon. 

Things were going well -- I was tapped for a double platelet donation, while Alita was tapped for a single -- when I noticed the tingling in the lips. I took several Tums, and that settled it down briefly, but they came right back. A short time later, I started feeling a weird fluttery sort of sensation in my chest. 

I took a few more Tums, and it sort of helped, but it kept coming back. I tried to ignore it for a while and watch something on the iPad.

About halfway into my planned 89-minute session (my head was starting to feel a little funny at this point, too), the tech came back and asked how it was going. As soon as I mentioned the weird chest sensation -- I didn't even use the word "fluttery" -- she stopped the donation. She very calmly explained how the citrate solution they use as an anticoagulant binds with calcium in the blood to prevent blood from clotting - but also prevents calcium from reaching muscles. The lips feel it first because they're such small muscles. But, she added, the heart is a muscle, too. So best to not take any chances. 

There wasn't a sense of "Oh crap, get the AED ready" sort of urgency to her shutting things down, but she was definitely PAYING ATTENTION.

As the machine was cycling down and I waited for Alita to finish up (she had no problems, show off that she is), I did a bit of quick research into hypocalcemia and unexpected citrate toxicity during aphersis and found that, in extreme cases, a severe lack of available calcium in the blood can cause tingly lips, hands and feet, muscle spasms ... and life-threatening arrhythmias. Oh. Well. Hm.

At least they got one unit of platelets out of me. She said I should try donating platelets one more time, but tank up on calcium-rich foods before the donation to see if that helps. If not, then it'll be nothing but whole blood donations for me going forward. I could live with that.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:38 pm

Well, that sucks...halfway.  Good to see the tech was on top of things.  They usually are very attentive and calm, so the person donating doesn't freak.

So, if you have the same reaction the next time, they wouldn't let you donate just plasma for the third visit?  I can't remember if the calcium issue is just for platelet donations or if it affects just plasma donations, too.

Gratz to Alita on her extremely momentous accomplishment!
And.... Sleep nice going, Mark. Wink   You were a teaching moment for them.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:09 pm

Kudos to all of you who are able to donate!  I've tried but they can't get enough blood out of me to make it worth their while.  Heck they struggle to get enough out of me for my blood tests!

Marty donates whole blood when he can.  Kevin donates on a regular basis as well.  He's got the universal blood type so gives whatever they need.

Mark...sounds like a scary situation but they seemed to be in control.  Doesn't sound like it freaked you out to much.  Interesting to know that's for sure!

Have you had a chance to drive up the Columbia River Gorge since the fire?  We drove to Sandy yesterday to pick up both our Mom's and take them to the Gresham Saturday Market where my sister-in-law sells her bonsai creations.  It was a fun morning.  We decided to drive home through the gorge so we could see the damage done by the fire.  What an eye opener.  I read that it was a mosaic fire but I've never seen anything like it.  Untouched trees standing right next to completely burnt trees with no apparent pattern or reason.  The exits off the freeway are all closed and you're not allowed to stop anywhere so it was a drive by viewing but well worth our time.  We stopped in Cascade Locks for a bite of lunch.  They thanked us for our business and said they were closed for 20 days because of the fire.  Mom saved a great article about a local boy (firefighter) who was called in to help save the Multnomah Falls Lodge and the Bridal Veil Post Office.  My brother is going to take Mom for a drive Tuesday so she can have a look.  I hope to go back later when we can stop and get a better look.  Katie and I have been talking about hiking from Timberline Lodge to Cascade Locks on the PCT but that will have to be put on hold now.  I'm glad I was able to hike the Eagle Creek Trail before the fire!

Hope you and Alita both recovered well from your generous donation...
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:01 pm

The photos that Alita posted on FB of the machine is the exact machine the Blood Center down here uses.  It must be the machine required by the FDA.  The FDA controls all aspects of the donation process, from screening to finish.  

I'd recommend doing a single platelet donation, next time, if they'll go along with the idea.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:14 pm

ounce wrote:Well, that sucks...halfway.  Good to see the tech was on top of things.  They usually are very attentive and calm, so the person donating doesn't freak.

So, if you have the same reaction the next time, they wouldn't let you donate just plasma for the third visit?  I can't remember if the calcium issue is just for platelet donations or if it affects just plasma donations, too.

Gratz to Alita on her extremely momentous accomplishment!
And.... Sleep nice going, Mark. Wink   You were a teaching moment for them.

I don't know what they would or wouldn't recommend. I don't know if they use the citrate solution for separating plasma or not. 

I got the impression that this wasn't the first time this has happened to them. They'd given both of us a cup full of Tums before even starting the machines. 

Interestingly, I'd taken a calcium supplement that morning that provided 100% of my RDA, so it wasn't like I was running low to start with. And the last time I did a blood test, my calcium levels were pretty much in the middle of the accepted range, so... who knows? 


nkrichards wrote:Kudos to all of you who are able to donate!  I've tried but they can't get enough blood out of me to make it worth their while.  Heck they struggle to get enough out of me for my blood tests!

Marty donates whole blood when he can.  Kevin donates on a regular basis as well.  He's got the universal blood type so gives whatever they need.

Mark...sounds like a scary situation but they seemed to be in control.  Doesn't sound like it freaked you out to much.  Interesting to know that's for sure!

Have you had a chance to drive up the Columbia River Gorge since the fire?  We drove to Sandy yesterday to pick up both our Mom's and take them to the Gresham Saturday Market where my sister-in-law sells her bonsai creations.  It was a fun morning.  We decided to drive home through the gorge so we could see the damage done by the fire.  What an eye opener.  I read that it was a mosaic fire but I've never seen anything like it.  Untouched trees standing right next to completely burnt trees with no apparent pattern or reason.  The exits off the freeway are all closed and you're not allowed to stop anywhere so it was a drive by viewing but well worth our time.  We stopped in Cascade Locks for a bite of lunch.  They thanked us for our business and said they were closed for 20 days because of the fire.  Mom saved a great article about a local boy (firefighter) who was called in to help save the Multnomah Falls Lodge and the Bridal Veil Post Office.  My brother is going to take Mom for a drive Tuesday so she can have a look.  I hope to go back later when we can stop and get a better look.  Katie and I have been talking about hiking from Timberline Lodge to Cascade Locks on the PCT but that will have to be put on hold now.  I'm glad I was able to hike the Eagle Creek Trail before the fire!

Hope you and Alita both recovered well from your generous donation...

It was a little scary -- or unsettling, really -- and part of me isn't sure how keen I am to try it again. But I remembered later that Alec and I had hauled out our window air conditioner earlier that morning. and that Alec had felt his grip loosening, so I'd grabbed the whole thing, holding it significantly ... with my chest and arm muscles ... so who knows? Maybe that was part of it. 

They like us. We have good veins and high iron content in our blood. 

We haven't gone up the Gorge since the fire. I think it'd be great for LOTS of people to drive up to Cascade Locks for lunch and shopping. Those small businesses had to be hurt bad by the loss of customers all those days. 

I'd never made it to Eagle Creek. Never even knew about it, actually. It'll be a while before any of us can get up there again.

Aren't mosaic burns fascinating? I've seen a lot of fire damages, covering big fires in Northern California for many years when I was a reporter. The seeming random nature of what burns and what doesn't is shocking. In the Eagle Creek Fire, I'd heard the fire was jumping from ridgeline to ridgeline, then creeping back downslope in the undergrowth, which is something firefighters around here had not experienced before. It must have been terrifying to see up close.


ounce wrote:The photos that Alita posted on FB of the machine is the exact machine the Blood Center down here uses.  It must be the machine required by the FDA.  The FDA controls all aspects of the donation process, from screening to finish.  

I'd recommend doing a single platelet donation, next time, if they'll go along with the idea.

I thought the machine was fascinating. My one curiosity before was trying to figure out how they managed to prevent cross-contaimination using the same machine on several people. I found out that it's easy, since the blood never touches the machine. The whole thing is a close system in plastic and tubing, driven by pumps, dials and a centrifuge. She showed me how it worked. Whoever came up with it was a very clever person.

I bet they'd limit me to a single donation if I tried it again. Still not 100% sure I will. I did not like that sensation.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:08 am

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:Well, that sucks...halfway.  Good to see the tech was on top of things.  They usually are very attentive and calm, so the person donating doesn't freak.

So, if you have the same reaction the next time, they wouldn't let you donate just plasma for the third visit?  I can't remember if the calcium issue is just for platelet donations or if it affects just plasma donations, too.

Gratz to Alita on her extremely momentous accomplishment!
And.... Sleep nice going, Mark. Wink   You were a teaching moment for them.

I don't know what they would or wouldn't recommend. I don't know if they use the citrate solution for separating plasma or not. 

I got the impression that this wasn't the first time this has happened to them. They'd given both of us a cup full of Tums before even starting the machines. 

Interestingly, I'd taken a calcium supplement that morning that provided 100% of my RDA, so it wasn't like I was running low to start with. And the last time I did a blood test, my calcium levels were pretty much in the middle of the accepted range, so... who knows? 





ounce wrote:The photos that Alita posted on FB of the machine is the exact machine the Blood Center down here uses.  It must be the machine required by the FDA.  The FDA controls all aspects of the donation process, from screening to finish.  

I'd recommend doing a single platelet donation, next time, if they'll go along with the idea.

I thought the machine was fascinating. My one curiosity before was trying to figure out how they managed to prevent cross-contaimination using the same machine on several people. I found out that it's easy, since the blood never touches the machine. The whole thing is a close system in plastic and tubing, driven by pumps, dials and a centrifuge. She showed me how it worked. Whoever came up with it was a very clever person.

I bet they'd limit me to a single donation if I tried it again. Still not 100% sure I will. I did not like that sensation.
The anti-coagulant is only involved in the Return flow.  It never enters the machine.  The tube from that bag is part of the 3 tube set up that then is attached to the tube coming from your arm.

Two weeks ago, after finishing a triple, the manager was finishing me up and asked me if I had that tingly feeling.  I said, "yes, but it passed."  She told me that I used almost the entire bag of the anti-coagulant.  Prior to two weeks ago, I saw the bag, but I never asked the question. 

Last week, I looked at the bag, its tube, and traced the tube to see where it goes.  I asked the question to the tech setting up the pheresis and confirmed the coagulant is to keep the returning blood from clotting.  I watched the 3 tubes during the draw, then the return and could tell it only moved during the return.

The platelets collected are in the centrifuge in a bag, of sorts.  The plasma hangs from the rack above the machine, on the right side.  It was the pee-colored bag above and to your right (it seemed you sat with the machine on your right).

Your 89 minute estimated donation time kinda shocked me, since I'm around 65 minutes for a double.  Then I remembered one tech telling me a year ago the lighter a person is, the longer it takes because there's less volume of blood.

I'll ask tomorrow about whether donating just plasma messes with the calcium.  If you have any other questions, let me know.  I've been going to this specific location for a few years, so they'll tell me without being concerned that I might be getting spooked.  After all, they had some people in training there last week and I asked the manager if I could mess with the trainees.  She said, "Sure, go ahead."  So, I have a good relationship with them.

I'll bet that weird foot of yours is absolutely the cause for your flutter.  I tell you, cut that damn thing off!
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:47 pm

Kudos to you and Alita for donating plasma and whatever else.  I donated blood once - and it was a terrible experience.  First of all, I am borderline weight (at 115lbs) and have an extremely low resting pulse (like 43) and it took 2 hrs to fill the pint bag.  I also pretty much passed out due to the overly long time and other factors.  So, I don't give.  It also messed me up for weeks regarding how tired I was probably due to my low iron stores.  Kind of too bad as I am O positive.

Anyway, I'm just glad that you are fine and thanks again.


Last edited by Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:41 pm

ounce wrote:The anti-coagulant is only involved in the Return flow.  It never enters the machine.  The tube from that bag is part of the 3 tube set up that then is attached to the tube coming from your arm.

Two weeks ago, after finishing a triple, the manager was finishing me up and asked me if I had that tingly feeling.  I said, "yes, but it passed."  She told me that I used almost the entire bag of the anti-coagulant.  Prior to two weeks ago, I saw the bag, but I never asked the question. 

Last week, I looked at the bag, its tube, and traced the tube to see where it goes.  I asked the question to the tech setting up the pheresis and confirmed the coagulant is to keep the returning blood from clotting.  I watched the 3 tubes during the draw, then the return and could tell it only moved during the return.

The platelets collected are in the centrifuge in a bag, of sorts.  The plasma hangs from the rack above the machine, on the right side.  It was the pee-colored bag above and to your right (it seemed you sat with the machine on your right).

Your 89 minute estimated donation time kinda shocked me, since I'm around 65 minutes for a double.  Then I remembered one tech telling me a year ago the lighter a person is, the longer it takes because there's less volume of blood.

I'll ask tomorrow about whether donating just plasma messes with the calcium.  If you have any other questions, let me know.  I've been going to this specific location for a few years, so they'll tell me without being concerned that I might be getting spooked.  After all, they had some people in training there last week and I asked the manager if I could mess with the trainees.  She said, "Sure, go ahead."  So, I have a good relationship with them.

I'll bet that weird foot of yours is absolutely the cause for your flutter.  I tell you, cut that damn thing off!

You know, that *does* answer some questions, doesn't it? I figured you would have blamed the cat. cat

When you chat up the techs, ask them how common the fluttery chest sensation is, and if there's a protocol for dealing with that sort of thing. Just make sure to say you're asking for a friend, or they may 86 you from the chair.

How often do you donate, anyway?

Not sure why my donation time was so long. I'm not that small, and that machine was sucking pretty hard once it got going. Seeing the platelets was interesting. It reminded me of liquid chicken fat.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Kudos to you and Alita for donating plasma and whatever else.  I donated blood once - and it was a terrible experience.  First of all, I am borderline weight (at 115lbs) and have an exteemely low resting pulse (like 43) and it took 2 hrs to fill the pint bag.  I also pretty much passed out due to the overly long time and other factors.  So, I don't give.  It also messed me up for weeks regarding how tired I was probably due to my low iron stores.  Kind of too bad as I am O positive.

Anyway, I'm just glad that you are fine and thanks again.

I can see why you don't give. That sounds like an awful experience. I'm glad we can do it, though I don't like feeling like I'm running at 14,000 feet for weeks after a whole blood donation. (Though I can fill a bag in nothing flat. I've got big veins, apparently.) That's why we were trying platelets.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:40 am

Mark B wrote:
ounce wrote:The anti-coagulant is only involved in the Return flow.  It never enters the machine.  The tube from that bag is part of the 3 tube set up that then is attached to the tube coming from your arm.

Two weeks ago, after finishing a triple, the manager was finishing me up and asked me if I had that tingly feeling.  I said, "yes, but it passed."  She told me that I used almost the entire bag of the anti-coagulant.  Prior to two weeks ago, I saw the bag, but I never asked the question. 

Last week, I looked at the bag, its tube, and traced the tube to see where it goes.  I asked the question to the tech setting up the pheresis and confirmed the coagulant is to keep the returning blood from clotting.  I watched the 3 tubes during the draw, then the return and could tell it only moved during the return.

The platelets collected are in the centrifuge in a bag, of sorts.  The plasma hangs from the rack above the machine, on the right side.  It was the pee-colored bag above and to your right (it seemed you sat with the machine on your right).

Your 89 minute estimated donation time kinda shocked me, since I'm around 65 minutes for a double.  Then I remembered one tech telling me a year ago the lighter a person is, the longer it takes because there's less volume of blood.

I'll ask tomorrow about whether donating just plasma messes with the calcium.  If you have any other questions, let me know.  I've been going to this specific location for a few years, so they'll tell me without being concerned that I might be getting spooked.  After all, they had some people in training there last week and I asked the manager if I could mess with the trainees.  She said, "Sure, go ahead."  So, I have a good relationship with them.

I'll bet that weird foot of yours is absolutely the cause for your flutter.  I tell you, cut that damn thing off!

You know, that *does* answer some questions, doesn't it? I figured you would have blamed the cat.  cat

When you chat up the techs, ask them how common the fluttery chest sensation is, and if there's a protocol for dealing with that sort of thing. Just make sure to say you're asking for a friend, or they may 86 you from the chair.

How often do you donate, anyway?

Not sure why my donation time was so long. I'm not that small, and that machine was sucking pretty hard once it got going. Seeing the platelets was interesting. It reminded me of liquid chicken fat.

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Kudos to you and Alita for donating plasma and whatever else.  I donated blood once - and it was a terrible experience.  First of all, I am borderline weight (at 115lbs) and have an exteemely low resting pulse (like 43) and it took 2 hrs to fill the pint bag.  I also pretty much passed out due to the overly long time and other factors.  So, I don't give.  It also messed me up for weeks regarding how tired I was probably due to my low iron stores.  Kind of too bad as I am O positive.

Anyway, I'm just glad that you are fine and thanks again.

I can see why you don't give. That sounds like an awful experience. I'm glad we can do it, though I don't like feeling like I'm running at 14,000 feet for weeks after a whole blood donation. (Though I can fill a bag in nothing flat. I've got big veins, apparently.) That's why we were trying platelets.
Blame a cat?  Why would I blame a cat?  Preposterous.

I will usually donate 1x/week starting in August (August is their Pint for a Pint month).  A person can only donate platelets 24 times in a donation year.  They track something called "RBC Spillage" which I don't totally understand, but it has something to do with 'illegal' RBC getting where they're not supposed to be and I can't have too much of that or I won't be able to donate.  It's a FDA thing.  So, I just try to make sure I have 2 or 3 donations from 2016 falling off, before donating this year.  I had 2 RBC spillage in September.  This time last year I had donated 11 times.  This year, 9 so far with 5 donations scheduled for October.  Might be tough to get 4 more in for this year.  4 more would get me to 50 gallons.

Yeah, Miche1e, that's rough.  My only suggestion would be to eat 3 steaks in the 7 days prior and drink lots of fluid the day before.  I was told that 2 hour donation is the longest length the FDA will allow.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:03 am

I've got a PT session tomorrow, so I got to it on the exercises today. (Not a good idea going in to the PT post-workout, since my legs would be noodles.)

1) 3x20 woodpeckers, left leg only.
2) 3x20 side lunges, both sides
3) 3x20 Swiss curls with both legs
4) 3x50 clamshells with silver band, each leg
5) 3x50 prone leg raises, each leg
6) 3x50 side leg raises, each leg

(I also did this Sunday)

Whoo! That's a workout.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:30 pm

I believe I mentioned a while back that Fluff could be your Cat-upuncturist prior to PT.  Just trying to revive that idea.

I asked the tech, today, about the heart fluttering.  She'd never seen that before.  She told me that she'd prefer donors not to take the Tums if there was an issue.  But if the donor wanted to take the Tums, she would slow the anti-coagulant flow to compensate.  I'll ask someone else, next week, so I can get another idea or confirmation.

I also asked if the anti-coagulant is used on plasma donations.  She said yes.  If you're hooked up to that machine, you're hooked up to the anti-coagulant.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:37 pm

Mark B wrote:I've got a PT session tomorrow, so I got to it on the exercises today. (Not a good idea going in to the PT post-workout, since my legs would be noodles.)

1) 3x20 woodpeckers, left leg only.
2) 3x20 side lunges, both sides
3) 3x20 Swiss curls with both legs
4) 3x50 clamshells with silver band, each leg
5) 3x50 prone leg raises, each leg
6) 3x50 side leg raises, each leg

(I also did this Sunday)

Whoo! That's a workout.

Well I was going to brag about the fact that I discussed clamshells with my PT today and he said I was to advanced to do them.  He showed me how to do the side leg raises against the wall.  I came home and managed to do 2x25 each leg and was absolutely buggered.  I don't know how in the world you can do the above workout!!!!  I'll forget about the bragging and give you the respect you deserve!
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:49 am

ounce wrote:I believe I mentioned a while back that Fluff could be your Cat-upuncturist prior to PT.  Just trying to revive that idea.

I asked the tech, today, about the heart fluttering.  She'd never seen that before.  She told me that she'd prefer donors not to take the Tums if there was an issue.  But if the donor wanted to take the Tums, she would slow the anti-coagulant flow to compensate.  I'll ask someone else, next week, so I can get another idea or confirmation.

I also asked if the anti-coagulant is used on plasma donations.  She said yes.  If you're hooked up to that machine, you're hooked up to the anti-coagulant.

Good to know, thanks. 

nkrichards wrote:
Mark B wrote:I've got a PT session tomorrow, so I got to it on the exercises today. (Not a good idea going in to the PT post-workout, since my legs would be noodles.)

1) 3x20 woodpeckers, left leg only.
2) 3x20 side lunges, both sides
3) 3x20 Swiss curls with both legs
4) 3x50 clamshells with silver band, each leg
5) 3x50 prone leg raises, each leg
6) 3x50 side leg raises, each leg

(I also did this Sunday)

Whoo! That's a workout.

Well I was going to brag about the fact that I discussed clamshells with my PT today and he said I was to advanced to do them.  He showed me how to do the side leg raises against the wall.  I came home and managed to do 2x25 each leg and was absolutely buggered.  I don't know how in the world you can do the above workout!!!!  I'll forget about the bragging and give you the respect you deserve!

Yeah, we runners do a great job neglecting our glutes. It's taken a long time for me to get to the level I am now, and it still wrecks me. I'll be interested to see what this does for my running once I'm allowed to start again. I can feel 'em when I walk already. It's kind of weird. What a Face

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:27 am

I gain more and more respect for you every time that I do those side leg raises!  I don't know how you can complete that workout.

Hope PT went well.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:21 pm

nkrichards wrote:I gain more and more respect for you every time that I do those side leg raises!  I don't know how you can complete that workout.

Hope PT went well.

PT went VERY well, thank you very much.

My PT tested hip and butt strength, and was pleased. She also continued to work out the gristle in my lower legs and suggested I start stretching them again. I'd stopped a long time ago on the advice of a sports medicine doctor. The tone of her, "Oh," made it pretty clear what she thought of THAT advice. Suspect

She also liked hearing that the pain behind my knee, and in my upper calf, and in my hamstring have all dissipated since the injection and the myofascial release work. 

So pleased, in fact, that she's got me running again. Very Happy

Before you get too excited, it's extremely limited. 

As in...

Walk at 3.3 mph for 60 seconds.
Jog at 6 mph for 60 seconds.
Walk at 3.3 mph for 60 seconds.
Jog at 6 mph for 60 seconds.
Walk at 3.3 mph for 60 seconds.
Jog at 6 mph for 60 seconds.

Then, just as I start to feel like I'm starting to get warmed up... stop. 

That's a very Maffetone thing. Your initial workout is warming up then cooling down.

I will get to run more, eventually. Here are the instructions. Each "Level" is one week, provided I have no soreness.



So it's going to take a while, but at least it's moving in the right direction. 

Walking is always okay, so I did 3 miles today during lunch. It was a nice day for it, and it felt good.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:09 am

Of course, I still have my PT exercises, with a couple of new twists.

1) Arabesques, 3 x15 each leg (new! difficult!)
2) Side lunges, 3 x 20 each side
3) Clamshells, 3 x  50 each side, slowly! 
4) Swiss curls on ball, 3 x 30
5) Hands and knees leg lift, 3 x 30 each side. (new! difficult! upper body workout, too)
6) Side leg lifts, 3 x 50 each side

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Mark B wrote:
nkrichards wrote:I gain more and more respect for you every time that I do those side leg raises!  I don't know how you can complete that workout.

Hope PT went well.

PT went VERY well, thank you very much.

My PT tested hip and butt strength, and was pleased. She also continued to work out the gristle in my lower legs and suggested I start stretching them again. I'd stopped a long time ago on the advice of a sports medicine doctor. The tone of her, "Oh," made it pretty clear what she thought of THAT advice. Suspect

She also liked hearing that the pain behind my knee, and in my upper calf, and in my hamstring have all dissipated since the injection and the myofascial release work. 

So pleased, in fact, that she's got me running again. Very Happy

Before you get too excited, it's extremely limited. 

As in...

Walk at 3.3 mph for 60 seconds.
Jog at 6 mph for 60 seconds.
Walk at 3.3 mph for 60 seconds.
Jog at 6 mph for 60 seconds.
Walk at 3.3 mph for 60 seconds.
Jog at 6 mph for 60 seconds.

Then, just as I start to feel like I'm starting to get warmed up... stop. 

That's a very Maffetone thing. Your initial workout is warming up then cooling down.

I will get to run more, eventually. Here are the instructions. Each "Level" is one week, provided I have no soreness.



So it's going to take a while, but at least it's moving in the right direction. 

Walking is always okay, so I did 3 miles today during lunch. It was a nice day for it, and it felt good.

Mark B wrote:Of course, I still have my PT exercises, with a couple of new twists.

1) Arabesques, 3 x15 each leg (new! difficult!)
2) Side lunges, 3 x 20 each side
3) Clamshells, 3 x  50 each side, slowly! 
4) Swiss curls on ball, 3 x 30
5) Hands and knees leg lift, 3 x 30 each side. (new! difficult! upper body workout, too)
6) Side leg lifts, 3 x 50 each side
I'm glad my PT isn't as tough as yours!  You are going to be so ready to run when she turns you loose!  When I asked my PT if I could run while I was healing he responded by saying that he knew I probably would no matter what he said so he just reminded me to take it easy and allow it to heal. Very Happy

I do find in interesting that I'm doing many of the same exercises as you are...some in Pilates and some suggested by the PT.  We do both the arabesques and the hands and knees leg lift in Pilates.  Try that last one with a ball on your back and see if you can keep your pelvis still and keep the ball in place!  Now lift both the arm and the opposite leg!  Fun but VERY challenging.  We usually have balls rolling all over the floor. Laughing

Interesting story...my PT told me a story about his mentor who was a very small lady.  Mark Allen (Maffetone advocate) flew across the country so she could treat him.  He was quite disappointed when she prescribed a few simple exercises that would heal him and keep him healthy.  The point of her story was that the treatment didn't need to be complicated to be effective.

Glad to hear things are going well.  What's Alita been doing to keep herself busy and ready to join in once you're released to run again?
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:24 pm

nkrichards wrote:I'm glad my PT isn't as tough as yours!  You are going to be so ready to run when she turns you loose!  When I asked my PT if I could run while I was healing he responded by saying that he knew I probably would no matter what he said so he just reminded me to take it easy and allow it to heal. Very Happy

I do find in interesting that I'm doing many of the same exercises as you are...some in Pilates and some suggested by the PT.  We do both the arabesques and the hands and knees leg lift in Pilates.  Try that last one with a ball on your back and see if you can keep your pelvis still and keep the ball in place!  Now lift both the arm and the opposite leg!  Fun but VERY challenging.  We usually have balls rolling all over the floor. Laughing

Interesting story...my PT told me a story about his mentor who was a very small lady.  Mark Allen (Maffetone advocate) flew across the country so she could treat him.  He was quite disappointed when she prescribed a few simple exercises that would heal him and keep him healthy.  The point of her story was that the treatment didn't need to be complicated to be effective.

Glad to hear things are going well.  What's Alita been doing to keep herself busy and ready to join in once you're released to run again?

Your PT's mentor is a tiny person? And the sort of person who treats guys like Mark Allen? 

I'm starting to wonder if your PT's mentor is my PT. She's top knotch, and tiny. Ask your PT what her name is and we can compare notes!

I have a lot of challenging exercises, to be sure, but they're mostly working on the same thing. The glutes and other core muscles. Well, also the hamstrings, but mostly the core. To be able to feel butt muscles actually WORKING is a very odd sensation, butt it's happening! (Intentional typo.)

Alita has been doing her own PT work as I've been doing mine. We have the same PT. Alita wants to not have her knee go all wobbly after 18 miles, and our doctor allowed her to go to PT to try to fix it. She's still walking at lunch at work and running a little. We'll run more as the progression continues. It was her idea to try the 24 hour run, so she's definitely ready to roll.

Both the doctor and the PT are very keen on getting us moving and keeping us moving. They're with Kaiser (and he's an OD), so they're very focused on prevention and maintaining lifelong healthy living habits.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:41 am

Mark B wrote:
nkrichards wrote:I'm glad my PT isn't as tough as yours!  You are going to be so ready to run when she turns you loose!  When I asked my PT if I could run while I was healing he responded by saying that he knew I probably would no matter what he said so he just reminded me to take it easy and allow it to heal. Very Happy

I do find in interesting that I'm doing many of the same exercises as you are...some in Pilates and some suggested by the PT.  We do both the arabesques and the hands and knees leg lift in Pilates.  Try that last one with a ball on your back and see if you can keep your pelvis still and keep the ball in place!  Now lift both the arm and the opposite leg!  Fun but VERY challenging.  We usually have balls rolling all over the floor. Laughing

Interesting story...my PT told me a story about his mentor who was a very small lady.  Mark Allen (Maffetone advocate) flew across the country so she could treat him.  He was quite disappointed when she prescribed a few simple exercises that would heal him and keep him healthy.  The point of her story was that the treatment didn't need to be complicated to be effective.

Glad to hear things are going well.  What's Alita been doing to keep herself busy and ready to join in once you're released to run again?

Your PT's mentor is a tiny person? And the sort of person who treats guys like Mark Allen? 

I'm starting to wonder if your PT's mentor is my PT. She's top knotch, and tiny. Ask your PT what her name is and we can compare notes!

I have a lot of challenging exercises, to be sure, but they're mostly working on the same thing. The glutes and other core muscles. Well, also the hamstrings, but mostly the core. To be able to feel butt muscles actually WORKING is a very odd sensation, butt it's happening! (Intentional typo.)

Alita has been doing her own PT work as I've been doing mine. We have the same PT. Alita wants to not have her knee go all wobbly after 18 miles, and our doctor allowed her to go to PT to try to fix it. She's still walking at lunch at work and running a little. We'll run more as the progression continues. It was her idea to try the 24 hour run, so she's definitely ready to roll.

Both the doctor and the PT are very keen on getting us moving and keeping us moving. They're with Kaiser (and he's an OD), so they're very focused on prevention and maintaining lifelong healthy living habits.

Kaiser insurance has many pros and cons but they do focus on prevention and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

My PT is in his mid-50's so his mentor would be at least in her 60's...maybe late 60's or 70's I would think.  I don't see Rob (Nelson) until Wednesday but I'll try to remember to ask him more details.

I've always know that I needed to strengthen my core and my glutes...and learn to activate my glutes...but I've never really concentrated on doing so.  Maybe that would be a good winter project between training cycles.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:58 pm

nkrichards wrote:
Mark B wrote:
nkrichards wrote:I'm glad my PT isn't as tough as yours!  You are going to be so ready to run when she turns you loose!  When I asked my PT if I could run while I was healing he responded by saying that he knew I probably would no matter what he said so he just reminded me to take it easy and allow it to heal. Very Happy

I do find in interesting that I'm doing many of the same exercises as you are...some in Pilates and some suggested by the PT.  We do both the arabesques and the hands and knees leg lift in Pilates.  Try that last one with a ball on your back and see if you can keep your pelvis still and keep the ball in place!  Now lift both the arm and the opposite leg!  Fun but VERY challenging.  We usually have balls rolling all over the floor. Laughing

Interesting story...my PT told me a story about his mentor who was a very small lady.  Mark Allen (Maffetone advocate) flew across the country so she could treat him.  He was quite disappointed when she prescribed a few simple exercises that would heal him and keep him healthy.  The point of her story was that the treatment didn't need to be complicated to be effective.

Glad to hear things are going well.  What's Alita been doing to keep herself busy and ready to join in once you're released to run again?

Your PT's mentor is a tiny person? And the sort of person who treats guys like Mark Allen? 

I'm starting to wonder if your PT's mentor is my PT. She's top knotch, and tiny. Ask your PT what her name is and we can compare notes!

I have a lot of challenging exercises, to be sure, but they're mostly working on the same thing. The glutes and other core muscles. Well, also the hamstrings, but mostly the core. To be able to feel butt muscles actually WORKING is a very odd sensation, butt it's happening! (Intentional typo.)

Alita has been doing her own PT work as I've been doing mine. We have the same PT. Alita wants to not have her knee go all wobbly after 18 miles, and our doctor allowed her to go to PT to try to fix it. She's still walking at lunch at work and running a little. We'll run more as the progression continues. It was her idea to try the 24 hour run, so she's definitely ready to roll.

Both the doctor and the PT are very keen on getting us moving and keeping us moving. They're with Kaiser (and he's an OD), so they're very focused on prevention and maintaining lifelong healthy living habits.

Kaiser insurance has many pros and cons but they do focus on prevention and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

My PT is in his mid-50's so his mentor would be at least in her 60's...maybe late 60's or 70's I would think.  I don't see Rob (Nelson) until Wednesday but I'll try to remember to ask him more details.

I've always know that I needed to strengthen my core and my glutes...and learn to activate my glutes...but I've never really concentrated on doing so.  Maybe that would be a good winter project between training cycles.

Ah. Well, my PT (Kaia) is definitely not in her golden years, so it's probably not her. 

Glutes are good.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:07 pm

Early Morning Rehab Run with Alita: About 1.5 miles total

Weather: Starry! 40° Gear: Topos, pants, T, pullover, jacket, hat, headlamp.

Alita suggested that we try getting up early in the morning to do our runs to keep her runs in sync with mine, and that sounded like a terrific idea -- even when the clock went off at 4 o'clock this morning!

We stepped the routine up one cycle: 10 minute walking warmup, then five cycles of one minute jogging, one minute walking, then walking the rest of the way home.

It felt good. I was aware of my knee initially, but I wouldn't call it pain or even discomfort. The off-and-on cycle also helped me think about engaging my glutes, which was an interesting sensation. :-)

No HR strap on for these runs.

---

Later, I got in a 2.2-mile walk at lunch.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:57 am

Mark B wrote:Early Morning Rehab Run with Alita: About 1.5 miles total

Weather: Starry! 40° Gear: Topos, pants, T, pullover, jacket, hat, headlamp.

Alita suggested that we try getting up early in the morning to do our runs to keep her runs in sync with mine, and that sounded like a terrific idea -- even when the clock went off at 4 o'clock this morning!

We stepped the routine up one cycle: 10 minute walking warmup, then five cycles of one minute jogging, one minute walking, then walking the rest of the way home.

It felt good. I was aware of my knee initially, but I wouldn't call it pain or even discomfort. The off-and-on cycle also helped me think about engaging my glutes, which was an interesting sensation. :-)

No HR strap on for these runs.

---

Later, I got in a 2.2-mile walk at lunch.

Wow...Alita is committed to this 24 hour run thing.  Not sure I could respond to a 4:00am wake up call for a rehab run.  Good for both of you.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:16 am

nkrichards wrote:
Mark B wrote:Early Morning Rehab Run with Alita: About 1.5 miles total

Weather: Starry! 40° Gear: Topos, pants, T, pullover, jacket, hat, headlamp.

Alita suggested that we try getting up early in the morning to do our runs to keep her runs in sync with mine, and that sounded like a terrific idea -- even when the clock went off at 4 o'clock this morning!

We stepped the routine up one cycle: 10 minute walking warmup, then five cycles of one minute jogging, one minute walking, then walking the rest of the way home.

It felt good. I was aware of my knee initially, but I wouldn't call it pain or even discomfort. The off-and-on cycle also helped me think about engaging my glutes, which was an interesting sensation. :-)

No HR strap on for these runs.

---

Later, I got in a 2.2-mile walk at lunch.

Wow...Alita is committed to this 24 hour run thing.  Not sure I could respond to a 4:00am wake up call for a rehab run.  Good for both of you.

Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep

*hunhh*? whaa???

Oh. Yeah. It's great. It's just the srmgnhwhmm...... Sleep

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:05 am

Well, this woke me up...

1) Arabesques, 3 x15 each leg (still very difficult, but my body *might* be starting to figure it out)
2) Side lunges, 3 x 20 each side
3) Clamshells, 3 x  50 each side, slowly! 
4) Swiss curls on ball, 3 x 30
5) Hands and knees leg lift, 3 x 50 each side. (I only did 30 last time. Boy can I feel it in my abs!)
6) Side leg lifts, 3 x 50 each side

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:33 pm

Mark B wrote:Well, this woke me up...

1) Arabesques, 3 x15 each leg (still very difficult, but my body *might* be starting to figure it out)
2) Side lunges, 3 x 20 each side
3) Clamshells, 3 x  50 each side, slowly! 
4) Swiss curls on ball, 3 x 30
5) Hands and knees leg lift, 3 x 50 each side. (I only did 30 last time. Boy can I feel it in my abs!)
6) Side leg lifts, 3 x 50 each side

Just out of curiosity...how long does it take to complete that workout?  I was thinking that you were taking time off from training but now I'm wondering if you're actually investing more time with rehab than I'm investing in marathon training!

And what happens when you're released to run freely? Will these exercises go in the round file?  Will you continue do so some for maintenance?  I can't imagine finding time to run and do these.
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