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Trails for Two

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:16 pm

Well, it's been a few days since I've posted, so here's a quick update.

My leg is still hosed. It'll seem fine for a while, then will knot up on me as I start to walk. 

My doctor said no to an MRI, says they only use them to determine if surgery is needed. Hm...

I did manage to whine enough to get an earlier PT appointment, though. Next Wednesday morning. Woot!

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:53 am

The PT will say, "There's nothing here.  Move along.  These pains are not what we are looking for.  Go find a holistic hippie. "
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:53 pm

@ounce wrote:The PT will say, "There's nothing here.  Move along.  These pains are not what we are looking for.  Go find a holistic hippie. "
flower

Or... "Well, there's no money in this. Come back when we can do something expensive to it."

I'd take a holistic hippy at this point geek

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:43 pm

@Mark B wrote:Well, it's been a few days since I've posted, so here's a quick update.

My leg is still hosed. It'll seem fine for a while, then will knot up on me as I start to walk. 

My doctor said no to an MRI, says they only use them to determine if surgery is needed. Hm...

I did manage to whine enough to get an earlier PT appointment, though. Next Wednesday morning. Woot!

Good news on the earlier appointment.

Not so good on the healing progression from the sounds of it.

And do they call this health care?
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:30 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Well, it's been a few days since I've posted, so here's a quick update.

My leg is still hosed. It'll seem fine for a while, then will knot up on me as I start to walk. 

My doctor said no to an MRI, says they only use them to determine if surgery is needed. Hm...

I did manage to whine enough to get an earlier PT appointment, though. Next Wednesday morning. Woot!

Good news on the earlier appointment.

Not so good on the healing progression from the sounds of it.

And do they call this health care?

Thanks. I'm hoping to get a better understanding of what's going on soon. This is one of the weirder injuries I've had.

And I think the term is more "cost containment" than "health care" - funny how often the system seems to fail at both.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:12 am

Do you meet the minimum requirements to be a volunteer, other than breathing, at Hood?

See if you can get the doc (or ask the PT to ask the doc, since you have the script for PT) to write the PT as bi-lateral, meaning whatever strengthening is done to the bum knee is also done to the not bum knee, too, so the muscles have the same strength and you're not out of balance.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:07 am

@ounce wrote:Do you meet the minimum requirements to be a volunteer, other than breathing, at Hood?

See if you can get the doc (or ask the PT to ask the doc, since you have the script for PT) to write the PT as bi-lateral, meaning whatever strengthening is done to the bum knee is also done to the not bum knee, too, so the muscles have the same strength and you're not out of balance.

They seemed pretty pleased with our help on race day, so I guess the answer is yes.

I'll definitely be doing all the exercises on both legs. Wouldn't want to get out of alignment and pull to one side while running. Laughing

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:03 am

If the opportunity presents itself at the PT eval, ask them if muscle cells stop being created as people get older (like 55+ older) and does that apply to active people like us, as well.  Please? 

I know that old people who don't eat enough protein daily will experience catabolization (muscle cells being converted to energy) which ain't good.

Have fun and bring your catupuncturist with you.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:27 pm

@ounce wrote:If the opportunity presents itself at the PT eval, ask them if muscle cells stop being created as people get older (like 55+ older) and does that apply to active people like us, as well.  Please? 

I know that old people who don't eat enough protein daily will experience catabolization (muscle cells being converted to energy) which ain't good.

Have fun and bring your catupuncturist with you.

I made a point of asking the PT your question. The answer was... nope. If you provide the proper stimulus, your genes fire and muscle builds. It happens slower than when you're younger, but it still happens.

(I do wonder, though, if declining testosterone levels might impair muscle development and activity in some people. Or maybe that's one of the causes of slower muscle construction.)

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:30 pm

The PT session was, as usual, an exercise in enforced humility. 

She tested my quads and hamstrings, and they were very strong. 

Then she tested my hip and butt muscles, and they were pathetic. 

"So, what sort of strength work do you do?" she asked, knowing the answer.

"Uh... none lately?"

She didn't do any poking or prodding of my calves and hamstrings, but she seemed to think those were the symptom, not the problem. The problem, as usual, are weak hip and butt muscles, which force all those strong muscles behind and above and below the knee to work overtime. Strengthen those, and the muscular issues behind the knee will resolve. 

The whole wagon incident didn't seem to be a big consideration to her. She seemed to think it was something that was building up in time and just came to a head when it did. When I asked if the wagon-caused hyperextension was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back, she said she had no idea. 

As somebody who'd like to ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, that makes me a little crazy, but it is what it is.

She gave me a set of new glute exercises, very similar to ones I've done before. I need to do them daily until I get the muscles to activate and get strong, then do maintenance exercises four times a week pretty much forever. Sigh. 

The upside (and boy was she trying to sell this) was that developing those muscles will do a lot to improve efficiency and performance for walking and running, and resolve some chronic hip tightness that can't ever be fixed by stretching alone. 

I'll go into more detail about the exercises once I've had a chance to try them out. It ought to be interesting, because she seemed a little sadistic.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:15 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:If the opportunity presents itself at the PT eval, ask them if muscle cells stop being created as people get older (like 55+ older) and does that apply to active people like us, as well.  Please? 

I know that old people who don't eat enough protein daily will experience catabolization (muscle cells being converted to energy) which ain't good.

Have fun and bring your catupuncturist with you.

I made a point of asking the PT your question. The answer was... nope. If you provide the proper stimulus, your genes fire and muscle builds. It happens slower than when you're younger, but it still happens.

(I do wonder, though, if declining testosterone levels might impair muscle development and activity in some people. Or maybe that's one of the causes of slower muscle construction.)
Excellent, Mark.  Thanks very much for asking!
@Mark B wrote:The PT session was, as usual, an exercise in enforced humility. 

She tested my quads and hamstrings, and they were very strong. 

Then she tested my hip and butt muscles, and they were pathetic. 

"So, what sort of strength work do you do?" she asked, knowing the answer.

"Uh... none lately?"

She didn't do any poking or prodding of my calves and hamstrings, but she seemed to think those were the symptom, not the problem. The problem, as usual, are weak hip and butt muscles, which force all those strong muscles behind and above and below the knee to work overtime. Strengthen those, and the muscular issues behind the knee will resolve. 

The whole wagon incident didn't seem to be a big consideration to her. She seemed to think it was something that was building up in time and just came to a head when it did. When I asked if the wagon-caused hyperextension was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back, she said she had no idea. 

As somebody who'd like to ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, that makes me a little crazy, but it is what it is.

She gave me a set of new glute exercises, very similar to ones I've done before. I need to do them daily until I get the muscles to activate and get strong, then do maintenance exercises four times a week pretty much forever. Sigh. 

The upside (and boy was she trying to sell this) was that developing those muscles will do a lot to improve efficiency and performance for walking and running, and resolve some chronic hip tightness that can't ever be fixed by stretching alone. 

I'll go into more detail about the exercises once I've had a chance to try them out. It ought to be interesting, because she seemed a little sadistic.
Well, it's clear she's not forensically oriented.  She probably doesn't have the time.  You're just another in a long list of runners who just want to run.  Maybe as you get to know her better, you can pick her brain about it.

Maybe you can get Alita to help you out with those butt exercises! Approval
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:31 pm

@ounce wrote:Well, it's clear she's not forensically oriented.  She probably doesn't have the time.  You're just another in a long list of runners who just want to run.  Maybe as you get to know her better, you can pick her brain about it.

Maybe you can get Alita to help you out with those butt exercises! Approval

I'm actually going back to my previous PT in my next appointment. She's already been introduced to the freak show that is my physiology, so maybe she'll be more intrigued. I had one PT years ago who was great at that sort of thing, but alas, she's not in my plan anymore.

The exercises are straightforward: clamshells to work the gluteus medius, prone leg lifts to get the gluteus maximus to fire (with a bent leg to shut off the hammys), and side leg lifts of very short distance, pushing against a wall, to stimulate the gluteus medius and maximus at the same time. She didn't give me a target number of reps, just to do them to fatigue -- though she wants my muscles to really feel it. If I keep pushing, she says, I'd start cheating and recruiting other muscles. (Which is true. I'm notorious for that.)

I did about 40 reps of each, on each leg, which is what it took to get the burn going. It's hard to make those muscles work.

Once I get the sense of how to do them right, Alita is going to join in and do the exercises herself. Figure it can only help.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:56 am

Don't you hate it when you go to see a professional and they tell you what you already knew but just didn't prioritize enough to actually carry through.  It seems like running should be the priority but...

Your situation is a reminder to me that I do need to prioritize Pilates and/or my core/strength workout as I continue marathon training.  It's always the first to go when I get busy or tired...probably not the wisest choice.

I do best keeping up with my core when Marty is able to do it with me.  We motivate each other.  Having Alita do it with you should be good for both of you.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:35 pm

Oh, I've had two PT's whine that runners only care about running. Also, that I should purchase a bike, so I can work the other leg muscles, core, balance, etc.  Well, I don't want to bike on the roads of Houston, not unless there are cops stopping traffic.  THAT'S not going to happen too much.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:50 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Don't you hate it when you go to see a professional and they tell you what you already knew but just didn't prioritize enough to actually carry through.  It seems like running should be the priority but...

Your situation is a reminder to me that I do need to prioritize Pilates and/or my core/strength workout as I continue marathon training.  It's always the first to go when I get busy or tired...probably not the wisest choice.

I do best keeping up with my core when Marty is able to do it with me.  We motivate each other.  Having Alita do it with you should be good for both of you.

I was disappointed in her lack of curiousity, but I'll give her this: She was the first PT who pretty much told me flat-out that I should do strength work most days of the week, for the rest of my life. It's so easy to let it slide when the symptoms of disfunction go away and you're "healed." Fact is, all you're doing at that point by stopping is starting the long, slow slide toward another visit to the PT...

Teamwork is good motivation for us, though we have to watch out. We can be a little competitive.... ("Oh, you did 40? Well, I'll do 50, then!" "Oh yeah? Well..")

@ounce wrote:Oh, I've had two PT's whine that runners only care about running. Also, that I should purchase a bike, so I can work the other leg muscles, core, balance, etc.  Well, I don't want to bike on the roads of Houston, not unless there are cops stopping traffic.  THAT'S not going to happen too much.

Interesting side note on this: When it comes to LAS ("Lazy Ass Syndrome"), cyclists are just as guilty as runners. Ha! 

I used to ride my bike a lot, back when I was much younger. Was pretty good at it, too. But I don't really have much interest in it now. And Alita HATES the bike, so there'd be no fun in doing it together. (I also bought -- and have since sold -- a bike that I absolutely hated, one of those hybrid trail-road bikes. Sucked at both.)

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:19 pm

Wow, gone for a week and no tic tac toe games in here? Still, I see Mike started up a blog (!), so that's far better.

Hawaii was good. We snorkeled twice, rode horses, took a sail around Diamond Head, walked a lot and did a bunch of touristy stuff. I also just about killed myself on a muddy trail, but that's a story for another time. I may end up with a good scar as a souvenir. Smile

My leg gave me trouble intermittently, but it behaved most of the time.  I managed a 0% rating on PT exercises, so I'll have to get going on that, pronto.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:43 am

@Mark B wrote:Wow, gone for a week and no tic tac toe games in here? Still, I see Mike started up a blog (!), so that's far better.

Hawaii was good. We snorkeled twice, rode horses, took a sail around Diamond Head, walked a lot and did a bunch of touristy stuff. I also just about killed myself on a muddy trail, but that's a story for another time. I may end up with a good scar as a souvenir. Smile

My leg gave me trouble intermittently, but it behaved most of the time.  I managed a 0% rating on PT exercises, so I'll have to get going on that, pronto.

We didn't have time for a game of tic tac toe while you were away!

Glad you enjoyed Hawaii and survived the muddy trail...interested to hear that story.

You've had your holiday...time to hit the PT exercises!  Any thoughts at all about future events?  Has Alita chosen her next goal?
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:08 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Wow, gone for a week and no tic tac toe games in here? Still, I see Mike started up a blog (!), so that's far better.

Hawaii was good. We snorkeled twice, rode horses, took a sail around Diamond Head, walked a lot and did a bunch of touristy stuff. I also just about killed myself on a muddy trail, but that's a story for another time. I may end up with a good scar as a souvenir. Smile

My leg gave me trouble intermittently, but it behaved most of the time.  I managed a 0% rating on PT exercises, so I'll have to get going on that, pronto.

We didn't have time for a game of tic tac toe while you were away!

Glad you enjoyed Hawaii and survived the muddy trail...interested to hear that story.

You've had your holiday...time to hit the PT exercises!  Any thoughts at all about future events?  Has Alita chosen her next goal?
You were gone?  Huh.  Neutral

Glad you were able to walk around and maybe take a picture or two.  Nobody was going to staple YOU to a tree!

Just imagine if all those pictures were on 35mm Kodachrome!  Oh, the developing costs.

As far as exercises, total up the amount times how many days you're behind and begin there, all the while adding the current days.  Now, get busy!!  Frustration

Can you extend the total post count for a thread past 1,000, Groupenfurher Mark?  I'll make it worth your while. Money Money
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:36 am

@nkrichards wrote:We didn't have time for a game of tic tac toe while you were away!

Glad you enjoyed Hawaii and survived the muddy trail...interested to hear that story.

You've had your holiday...time to hit the PT exercises!  Any thoughts at all about future events?  Has Alita chosen her next goal?

Yes, it did look like you kept yourself occupied. Good work!

I'll have to write up a narrative of that little event on the trail. It ought to be ... colorful. 

I'm back doing PT exercises again now, and Alita just got a set from the PT herself! So now we can do it together! 

No specific thoughts for me except getting back to running again. I'm missing the best running time of the year, and it's making me insane. Alita thinks she may want to do the 6-hour event again at Elijah Bristow, running faster and aiming to get a marathon or more in in that time. 


@ounce wrote:You were gone?  Huh.  Neutral

Glad you were able to walk around and maybe take a picture or two.  Nobody was going to staple YOU to a tree!

Just imagine if all those pictures were on 35mm Kodachrome!  Oh, the developing costs.
As far as exercises, total up the amount times how many days you're behind and begin there, all the while adding the current days.  Now, get busy!!  Frustration

Can you extend the total post count for a thread past 1,000, Groupenfurher Mark?  I'll make it worth your while. Money Money

The photos you saw on Facebook were only the best ones, Ounce. When I downloaded my iPhone (yes, they're all iPhone shots), there were 1,000 images!! Couldn't do that with rolls of film, that's for sure. 

I'll see if there's anything I can do about post counts. I don't know if there is, though the offer of the bribe is greatly appreciated. Wink

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mike MacLellan on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:32 am

Whaaaaat, I even got an honorable mention on Mark's blog?

After catching up on your recent adventures, I now see why you've got hips and buns on the brain.  FWIW, I'm worse than you at any sort of PT unless it involves a golf ball and can be done mindlessly while at work.  Does she have you doing one-legged deadlifts by any chance?  Those things absolutely wreck my glutes within 10-15 reps.  Weights unnecessary and actually make it easier to a point (counterbalancing the foot that swings back).

I'm laughing to myself at your claim that August is the best time of year to run.  Then again, summer in the Columbia River Gorge was stupid perfect, so maybe once this heat wave leaves y'all alone, it WILL be the best time again.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:38 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:Whaaaaat, I even got an honorable mention on Mark's blog?

After catching up on your recent adventures, I now see why you've got hips and buns on the brain.  FWIW, I'm worse than you at any sort of PT unless it involves a golf ball and can be done mindlessly while at work.  Does she have you doing one-legged deadlifts by any chance?  Those things absolutely wreck my glutes within 10-15 reps.  Weights unnecessary and actually make it easier to a point (counterbalancing the foot that swings back).

I'm laughing to myself at your claim that August is the best time of year to run.  Then again, summer in the Columbia River Gorge was stupid perfect, so maybe once this heat wave leaves y'all alone, it WILL be the best time again.

Heck yes, you get a mention! We're a small but tight-knit group around here nowadays.

Yup, all I seem hear about at the PT is my weak-ass butt. They say it's a common issue for runners (though I'm still trying to figure out how that led to my tweaked calf/hamstring/whatever), so it seems like the PT equivalent of IT support people saying, "have you rebooted yet?"

So yeah, I'm rebooting my butt.

No deadlifts for me at this point. I'd imagine I'd somehow find a way to use the weights to cheat. I compensate a lot, and I substitute kinetic motion (ie arms gyrating around) for core strength, and that makes the PTs crazy.

On August running. I forgot to mention one teensy detail. I meant MORNING running, with sunny skies, cool breezes and and temperatures in the 60s. Not the nasty, smoky 105° we're supposed to get this afternoon. That'd be less pleasant.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:20 pm

I don't wish high temps on anyone, especially those with no a/c or just 1 window unit.  The BC smoke doesn't help matters for y'all.  Is Alec beginning band practice or is that still a couple of weeks away?

Y'all may have to open up a PT exercises thread for the rest of us.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:17 am

@ounce wrote:I don't wish high temps on anyone, especially those with no a/c or just 1 window unit.  The BC smoke doesn't help matters for y'all.  Is Alec beginning band practice or is that still a couple of weeks away?

Y'all may have to open up a PT exercises thread for the rest of us.

It's a dry heat, so it's not so bad. Reminds me of when we lived in Northern California. Still, it's more pleasant downstairs than upstairs, thanks to the a/c unit.

Alec has ditched marching band. Held no interest for him. Or us, honestly. He just wants to play music.

We'll see about the PT thread...

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:41 am

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:I don't wish high temps on anyone, especially those with no a/c or just 1 window unit.  The BC smoke doesn't help matters for y'all.  Is Alec beginning band practice or is that still a couple of weeks away?

Y'all may have to open up a PT exercises thread for the rest of us.

It's a dry heat, so it's not so bad. Reminds me of when we lived in Northern California. Still, it's more pleasant downstairs than upstairs, thanks to the a/c unit.

Alec has ditched marching band. Held no interest for him. Or us, honestly. He just wants to play music.

We'll see about the PT thread...

Not that the heat has been pleasant here but it hasn't been as bad as predicted.  I actually think that the smoke has helped keep the temperatures a bit lower...  Not that either is pleasant. 

Good to hear that you won't be hauling water wagons again this year...much more enjoyable to just sit and listen to Alec's music.

A PT thread would be good...
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:16 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:I don't wish high temps on anyone, especially those with no a/c or just 1 window unit.  The BC smoke doesn't help matters for y'all.  Is Alec beginning band practice or is that still a couple of weeks away?

Y'all may have to open up a PT exercises thread for the rest of us.

It's a dry heat, so it's not so bad. Reminds me of when we lived in Northern California. Still, it's more pleasant downstairs than upstairs, thanks to the a/c unit.

Alec has ditched marching band. Held no interest for him. Or us, honestly. He just wants to play music.

We'll see about the PT thread...

Not that the heat has been pleasant here but it hasn't been as bad as predicted.  I actually think that the smoke has helped keep the temperatures a bit lower...  Not that either is pleasant. 

Good to hear that you won't be hauling water wagons again this year...much more enjoyable to just sit and listen to Alec's music.

A PT thread would be good...

Alec didn't do marching band last year, either, but they draft EVERYBODY for the Parade Band at the end of the year. So he'll be marching in that again. I, however, will NOT be volunteering to tow a water wagon. Nope! Nope! Nope!

The smoke did help ease the temperatures. Made it tough on those with respiratory problems, though. It's cooler today, and I'd be fine if it stayed like this for the rest of the summer. 

Did my PT work today, and I'll be helping Alita with hers later. The PT wanted me to do my exercises "to fatigue" - but that's a silly thing to say to somebody who thinks nothing of going out running for 4 or 5 hours. I definitely got the burn going, though! Giddyup!

Ride

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Re: Trails for Two

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