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Trails for Two

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:16 pm

Well, it's been a few days since I've posted, so here's a quick update.

My leg is still hosed. It'll seem fine for a while, then will knot up on me as I start to walk. 

My doctor said no to an MRI, says they only use them to determine if surgery is needed. Hm...

I did manage to whine enough to get an earlier PT appointment, though. Next Wednesday morning. Woot!

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:53 am

The PT will say, "There's nothing here.  Move along.  These pains are not what we are looking for.  Go find a holistic hippie. "
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:53 pm

@ounce wrote:The PT will say, "There's nothing here.  Move along.  These pains are not what we are looking for.  Go find a holistic hippie. "
flower

Or... "Well, there's no money in this. Come back when we can do something expensive to it."

I'd take a holistic hippy at this point geek

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:43 pm

@Mark B wrote:Well, it's been a few days since I've posted, so here's a quick update.

My leg is still hosed. It'll seem fine for a while, then will knot up on me as I start to walk. 

My doctor said no to an MRI, says they only use them to determine if surgery is needed. Hm...

I did manage to whine enough to get an earlier PT appointment, though. Next Wednesday morning. Woot!

Good news on the earlier appointment.

Not so good on the healing progression from the sounds of it.

And do they call this health care?
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:30 pm

@nkrichards wrote:
@Mark B wrote:Well, it's been a few days since I've posted, so here's a quick update.

My leg is still hosed. It'll seem fine for a while, then will knot up on me as I start to walk. 

My doctor said no to an MRI, says they only use them to determine if surgery is needed. Hm...

I did manage to whine enough to get an earlier PT appointment, though. Next Wednesday morning. Woot!

Good news on the earlier appointment.

Not so good on the healing progression from the sounds of it.

And do they call this health care?

Thanks. I'm hoping to get a better understanding of what's going on soon. This is one of the weirder injuries I've had.

And I think the term is more "cost containment" than "health care" - funny how often the system seems to fail at both.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:12 am

Do you meet the minimum requirements to be a volunteer, other than breathing, at Hood?

See if you can get the doc (or ask the PT to ask the doc, since you have the script for PT) to write the PT as bi-lateral, meaning whatever strengthening is done to the bum knee is also done to the not bum knee, too, so the muscles have the same strength and you're not out of balance.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:07 am

@ounce wrote:Do you meet the minimum requirements to be a volunteer, other than breathing, at Hood?

See if you can get the doc (or ask the PT to ask the doc, since you have the script for PT) to write the PT as bi-lateral, meaning whatever strengthening is done to the bum knee is also done to the not bum knee, too, so the muscles have the same strength and you're not out of balance.

They seemed pretty pleased with our help on race day, so I guess the answer is yes.

I'll definitely be doing all the exercises on both legs. Wouldn't want to get out of alignment and pull to one side while running. Laughing

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:03 am

If the opportunity presents itself at the PT eval, ask them if muscle cells stop being created as people get older (like 55+ older) and does that apply to active people like us, as well.  Please? 

I know that old people who don't eat enough protein daily will experience catabolization (muscle cells being converted to energy) which ain't good.

Have fun and bring your catupuncturist with you.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:27 pm

@ounce wrote:If the opportunity presents itself at the PT eval, ask them if muscle cells stop being created as people get older (like 55+ older) and does that apply to active people like us, as well.  Please? 

I know that old people who don't eat enough protein daily will experience catabolization (muscle cells being converted to energy) which ain't good.

Have fun and bring your catupuncturist with you.

I made a point of asking the PT your question. The answer was... nope. If you provide the proper stimulus, your genes fire and muscle builds. It happens slower than when you're younger, but it still happens.

(I do wonder, though, if declining testosterone levels might impair muscle development and activity in some people. Or maybe that's one of the causes of slower muscle construction.)

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:30 pm

The PT session was, as usual, an exercise in enforced humility. 

She tested my quads and hamstrings, and they were very strong. 

Then she tested my hip and butt muscles, and they were pathetic. 

"So, what sort of strength work do you do?" she asked, knowing the answer.

"Uh... none lately?"

She didn't do any poking or prodding of my calves and hamstrings, but she seemed to think those were the symptom, not the problem. The problem, as usual, are weak hip and butt muscles, which force all those strong muscles behind and above and below the knee to work overtime. Strengthen those, and the muscular issues behind the knee will resolve. 

The whole wagon incident didn't seem to be a big consideration to her. She seemed to think it was something that was building up in time and just came to a head when it did. When I asked if the wagon-caused hyperextension was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back, she said she had no idea. 

As somebody who'd like to ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, that makes me a little crazy, but it is what it is.

She gave me a set of new glute exercises, very similar to ones I've done before. I need to do them daily until I get the muscles to activate and get strong, then do maintenance exercises four times a week pretty much forever. Sigh. 

The upside (and boy was she trying to sell this) was that developing those muscles will do a lot to improve efficiency and performance for walking and running, and resolve some chronic hip tightness that can't ever be fixed by stretching alone. 

I'll go into more detail about the exercises once I've had a chance to try them out. It ought to be interesting, because she seemed a little sadistic.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:15 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@ounce wrote:If the opportunity presents itself at the PT eval, ask them if muscle cells stop being created as people get older (like 55+ older) and does that apply to active people like us, as well.  Please? 

I know that old people who don't eat enough protein daily will experience catabolization (muscle cells being converted to energy) which ain't good.

Have fun and bring your catupuncturist with you.

I made a point of asking the PT your question. The answer was... nope. If you provide the proper stimulus, your genes fire and muscle builds. It happens slower than when you're younger, but it still happens.

(I do wonder, though, if declining testosterone levels might impair muscle development and activity in some people. Or maybe that's one of the causes of slower muscle construction.)
Excellent, Mark.  Thanks very much for asking!
@Mark B wrote:The PT session was, as usual, an exercise in enforced humility. 

She tested my quads and hamstrings, and they were very strong. 

Then she tested my hip and butt muscles, and they were pathetic. 

"So, what sort of strength work do you do?" she asked, knowing the answer.

"Uh... none lately?"

She didn't do any poking or prodding of my calves and hamstrings, but she seemed to think those were the symptom, not the problem. The problem, as usual, are weak hip and butt muscles, which force all those strong muscles behind and above and below the knee to work overtime. Strengthen those, and the muscular issues behind the knee will resolve. 

The whole wagon incident didn't seem to be a big consideration to her. She seemed to think it was something that was building up in time and just came to a head when it did. When I asked if the wagon-caused hyperextension was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back, she said she had no idea. 

As somebody who'd like to ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, that makes me a little crazy, but it is what it is.

She gave me a set of new glute exercises, very similar to ones I've done before. I need to do them daily until I get the muscles to activate and get strong, then do maintenance exercises four times a week pretty much forever. Sigh. 

The upside (and boy was she trying to sell this) was that developing those muscles will do a lot to improve efficiency and performance for walking and running, and resolve some chronic hip tightness that can't ever be fixed by stretching alone. 

I'll go into more detail about the exercises once I've had a chance to try them out. It ought to be interesting, because she seemed a little sadistic.
Well, it's clear she's not forensically oriented.  She probably doesn't have the time.  You're just another in a long list of runners who just want to run.  Maybe as you get to know her better, you can pick her brain about it.

Maybe you can get Alita to help you out with those butt exercises! Approval
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:31 pm

@ounce wrote:Well, it's clear she's not forensically oriented.  She probably doesn't have the time.  You're just another in a long list of runners who just want to run.  Maybe as you get to know her better, you can pick her brain about it.

Maybe you can get Alita to help you out with those butt exercises! Approval

I'm actually going back to my previous PT in my next appointment. She's already been introduced to the freak show that is my physiology, so maybe she'll be more intrigued. I had one PT years ago who was great at that sort of thing, but alas, she's not in my plan anymore.

The exercises are straightforward: clamshells to work the gluteus medius, prone leg lifts to get the gluteus maximus to fire (with a bent leg to shut off the hammys), and side leg lifts of very short distance, pushing against a wall, to stimulate the gluteus medius and maximus at the same time. She didn't give me a target number of reps, just to do them to fatigue -- though she wants my muscles to really feel it. If I keep pushing, she says, I'd start cheating and recruiting other muscles. (Which is true. I'm notorious for that.)

I did about 40 reps of each, on each leg, which is what it took to get the burn going. It's hard to make those muscles work.

Once I get the sense of how to do them right, Alita is going to join in and do the exercises herself. Figure it can only help.

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Re: Trails for Two

Post  nkrichards on Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:56 am

Don't you hate it when you go to see a professional and they tell you what you already knew but just didn't prioritize enough to actually carry through.  It seems like running should be the priority but...

Your situation is a reminder to me that I do need to prioritize Pilates and/or my core/strength workout as I continue marathon training.  It's always the first to go when I get busy or tired...probably not the wisest choice.

I do best keeping up with my core when Marty is able to do it with me.  We motivate each other.  Having Alita do it with you should be good for both of you.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  ounce on Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:35 pm

Oh, I've had two PT's whine that runners only care about running. Also, that I should purchase a bike, so I can work the other leg muscles, core, balance, etc.  Well, I don't want to bike on the roads of Houston, not unless there are cops stopping traffic.  THAT'S not going to happen too much.
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Re: Trails for Two

Post  Mark B on Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:50 pm

@nkrichards wrote:Don't you hate it when you go to see a professional and they tell you what you already knew but just didn't prioritize enough to actually carry through.  It seems like running should be the priority but...

Your situation is a reminder to me that I do need to prioritize Pilates and/or my core/strength workout as I continue marathon training.  It's always the first to go when I get busy or tired...probably not the wisest choice.

I do best keeping up with my core when Marty is able to do it with me.  We motivate each other.  Having Alita do it with you should be good for both of you.

I was disappointed in her lack of curiousity, but I'll give her this: She was the first PT who pretty much told me flat-out that I should do strength work most days of the week, for the rest of my life. It's so easy to let it slide when the symptoms of disfunction go away and you're "healed." Fact is, all you're doing at that point by stopping is starting the long, slow slide toward another visit to the PT...

Teamwork is good motivation for us, though we have to watch out. We can be a little competitive.... ("Oh, you did 40? Well, I'll do 50, then!" "Oh yeah? Well..")

@ounce wrote:Oh, I've had two PT's whine that runners only care about running. Also, that I should purchase a bike, so I can work the other leg muscles, core, balance, etc.  Well, I don't want to bike on the roads of Houston, not unless there are cops stopping traffic.  THAT'S not going to happen too much.

Interesting side note on this: When it comes to LAS ("Lazy Ass Syndrome"), cyclists are just as guilty as runners. Ha! 

I used to ride my bike a lot, back when I was much younger. Was pretty good at it, too. But I don't really have much interest in it now. And Alita HATES the bike, so there'd be no fun in doing it together. (I also bought -- and have since sold -- a bike that I absolutely hated, one of those hybrid trail-road bikes. Sucked at both.)

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