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50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:59 pm

Nick, it's tough to say.  Could be a combination of both.  For sure my feet grew a full size as ALL shoes I've bought in the past few years have had to be size 11.  This Peregrine model could be an outlier I guess, but it seems kinda dumb on their part to change their sizing - but stranger things have happened.

Today was a 22 mile run as a 5/1 minute run/walk along SF Bay, a combination of flat dirt levee, alternately paved and trail rolling hills and a tour through a wetland nature preserve.  Went much better than the 20 miler two weeks ago, and that's encouraging!  HR is slowly coming down and perceived effort was less except in the final 2 miles when I was counting down the yards Very Happy .

I taped up my two toes that have become blister magnets as I had to wear my old shoes today (not going to try out new ones on a 22 miler!), and discovered I need to get some tape adherent to get the tape to stick to the slippery toes.  They do sweat a lot and flex a lot, so not surprising I guess.  I'm following guidance from "Fixing Your Feet - Injury prevention and treatments for athletes" which is a truly rich resource of information.  I've got a 10 mile run tomorrow and am considering giving the new shoes a go on that one.  Either that or waiting until Monday when the run is only 4 miles.

Nutrition on the run.  On my bike I have become a solid proponent of the Infinit Nutrition products.  They create a custom blend based on your weight, sweat rate, etc., and can further tailor the mix for a heavier electrolyte concentration if you will be in hotter temps.  One of the best features I like is that you can also set how strong the flavor is - important when you'll be sucking on it for 6 hours or more or if you concentrate the mix to make a single bottle last a lonnnnng time.  I used nothing but that on the 112 mile ride during my Ironman-distance tri last year and it worked great (full disclosure, I did have a Payday candy bar, but just because I wanted something to chew - and I like Paydays!).  So I have decided to see if I can use it on the run for the AR50.  I mixed up a single bottle that gave me 3 hours of nutrition for today's run and packed up 4 small boiled potatoes (salted) as I want to see how the stomach handles solid food.  I used nothing but the Infinit until mile 18, never got hungry and never got tired of the taste, and then tried the potatoes.  Potatoes good.  I finished the last of the Infinit right at mile 22, with a very happy stomach and was not hungry at all, even though it was about 1 pm at that point.  Got home and made myself a 16 oz. recovery shake, downed it, and likely won't have anything else until dinner I feel so full.  So I'm thinking this is a definite go for the race.  Sorry to sound like a commercial, but this stuff rocks!
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:04 pm

How does the 5/1 feel for you?  I haven't tried it, but I plan to if/when I go for 100s.  

Also, congrats on the nutrition.  I've yet to nail down mine - I can handle quite a bit at that low intensity, but I get physically hungry and my stomach cramps without solids.  Hm.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:11 pm

Mike, I like the 5/1.  I've still got to slow down a bit at the beginning as I'm seeing some drop-off in later miles on these long runs, but the 5/1 is both a mental and physical break for me.  Also serves as a good opportunity to take in nutrition and to dig anything out of the ultra pack if I need it.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:16 pm

Yesterday was the 10 to follow the previous day's 22, and it was an interesting one.  Started out feeling great.  Legs were strong, HR was staying nicely in z1.  About mile 7 a switch flipped though and all of a sudden it got hard.  HR had climbed into z2 but I had to slow my pace by about 15 seconds to get it to stabilize there.  These B2B runs are an education in themselves.  I've got the same B2B next week and it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:35 pm

That happens to me sometimes - right at mile 7 as well.  I never figured out what it was - I always thought it was that I suddenly came to Memorial Bridge (meaning a LOT of vehicular traffic to deal with), but my HR stays elevated for the remainder of the run after that, so I ruled that out.  But hey, at least you're not alone.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:59 pm

An easy 4.25 today with a week that looks like 4, 10, 8, off, 22, 10.  I'm still getting used to this pattern and 4 today seemed like it should have been longer.  But I've never trained for an ultra before with the B2B runs, so just trusting in the plan.

Did the run in my new size 11.5 Peregrines to give them a test run.  I was expecting them to feel like clown shoes when I first started with the extra half size and the stiffness that comes with new shoes.  Much to my surprise, they felt like shoes I'd been running in for a couple of hundred miles.  The run today was flat, so no real chance to see how they feel on downhills, but I'm happy with them so far. 

That being said, they really don't have a lot of cushion, so I'm thinking about adding yet another pair of shoes into the rotation.  Something for trails but more cushioned.  I tried on the Brooks Cascadia but found the toebox to be too small.  Think I'll go check out some Altra models as they seem to have a pretty good following and I seem to recall a post that mentioned a roomier toebox.  Suggestions?
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Nick Morris on Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:06 pm

Tom, my motto is "You can never have enough running shoes."
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:22 pm

Yesterday was a trip back to the hilly trail around Lake Chabot with a 10 miler.  It was a beautiful day for a run, and the scenery there is really nice.  The only bad thing is that with the drought, the lake level is down, and with the warm weather there has been a bad algae bloom.  When you look down on the shallows, the normally clear lake is absolutely green.  The algae is so bad, there have been multiple dog deaths occurring due to algae toxicity.  People are supposed to have their dogs under control around the lake, but if a dog sees a duck and chases it or simply is hot and tired from running and cannot resist the cool water for a dip or a drink, it can be game over.  A real shame and a heartbreak for those dog owners.

Today I coaxed my Vineman and CIM training partner back into a run for the first time since the race.  It sure is nice to run with someone else and I found paces were faster and effort was lower.  She was only good for 8 and I was doing 10 and I could feel a marked difference after she dropped off and I was on my own.  I was also hoping she'd do some crewing and pace me for the final 10 miles of the AR50, but found out today she and the family are leaving on vacation the Friday before.  Harrumph.  On to plan B, once I figure out what plan B is . . .
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:41 am

It was back to the Bay/Levee/Wildlife Refuge today for another 22 miler.  I've been having some toe blister problems since I've gone to hillier and trail runs and started to learn how to tape them both for prevention and for protection once blistered.  I'm using the info out of "Fixing your Feet" and finally today got it right.  I now have a dedicated little basket of foot care items including Compound Tincture of Benzoin - an item I had never even heard of before this turn of events.  Ran in the 11.5 Peregrine shoes and came away satisfied that it definitely was the right decision to move up that half size.

It is warm enough here that at 1pm when I finished my run and stopped to refill my water bottle, I was getting attacked by mosquitos!  Mid-February is not a time where I would ever think that would be an issue, but this is being one wacky winter here in the Bay Area.  On the plus side, I saw many, many hawks today and I think one golden eagle (MUCH larger than all the other birds of prey).  There are also many different types of ducks on the water including some absolutely beautiful wood ducks.  Herons and egrets were wading the shallows looking for a meal and seagulls were munching on crabs along the levee.  As you may surmise, this place gets a lot of bird watchers with cameras with very large, long, and heavy lenses.  I see many of them carting the cameras around, already tripod mounted, with the heavy lenses resting on their shoulders.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mark B on Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:02 am

Ooo! Nice birdwatching. It'll be fun to see what this latest Pineapple Express blows in.

I'm surprised you're having blistering problems. Where are they happening on your toes? There may be an equipment issue you can resolve to prevent them from happening in the first place, maybe.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:41 pm

Mark, they are happening on different places on different toes.  Right ring toe, bottom left front.  Right pointer toe, top front.  Left pointer toe, tip.  Weird.  I got the first one during CIM, the right ring toe.  I'm guessing it came as a result of the hamstring/piriformis injury and an accelerated recovery that caused a slight change in gait as the shoes and sock were the same ones I had been training in, and based on the fact that it is not recurring.  The others came in the last month when I switched to more hilly and trail runs.  I believe the culprit there was at least in part the old Peregrines I was running in that turn out to now be too small.  That, along with the feet moving in the shoes differently due to the slopes I was running.  Now that I've moved to the larger shoes, we'll see if that makes a difference.  Another option if that doesn't do the trick is to try some Ininji socks, but I'm holding off on that as I already have a drawer full of double layer running socks that have really served me well.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:08 pm

10 nice miles today.  Big storm front coming through with winds 25-30 mph here on the flats and upwards of 60 mph in the hills.  Rain was intermittent so just enough to keep cool in the 60+degree temps.  I'm never sure what to expect on these runs following the 20+ runs, and was really surprised on how easy it was today, and by how much the body indicators (pace, HR) were favorably responding.  Hopefully I'm starting to see the gains I've been waiting for.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:05 pm

Today called for 4 miles and tomorrow for 10.  The monkey wrench(es) in the plan came as I realized I'd volunteered to help my wife reorganize a school library tomorrow AND booked a carpet cleaner to come to my house.  At the same time.  Well, called the carpet cleaner and was able to get him to come an hour earlier (we've been using him for 27 years and can show him what needs to be done and just take off.  He'll lock up when he's done) and negotiated a slightly later start with my wife.  But that really created a time crunch for the 10 miles tomorrow, so I swapped with today's 4.  

So, today was 10 in a time period of really unsettled, fast-moving weather.  Started out in light rain and calm conditions.  That rapidly changed to high winds (~25 mph) but dry.  Then the dark clouds showed on the horizon and the wind settled to a complete calm.  As the dark clouds got closer the wind started to stir the weeds along the path and the light faded.  It was clear that the downpour I had been hoping to avoid was going to be catching me after all - and I was only at mile 5 - and I was going to get soaked.  The winds rose rapidly and got back into the 20+ region, and the clouds scooted overhead without dropping their load.  Sweet!  Made it home relatively dry.

The run itself was good.  Seems like the body's preferred pace is getting a bit faster and I averaged an 8:48 without having to put forth a significant effort.  HR was a little higher than I'd have liked at z2.5, but still within the desired zone (
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:39 pm

This is the week that was.  I don't know where it went, but it was gone before I knew it.  Got in a total of 56.5 miles which included a back to back 24/10 set.  I'm feeling a bit uncertain about where I am in the training as the 24 seemed harder than it should have, but at the same time made mistakes in early pace and hydration.  The day turned out to be warmer than I expected ending at 73 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. 

I should have this pace thing nailed by now, but that run served to remind me how important it is.  I'm targeting a 9:36 pace for my 50k, which I'll run as the 5 min run/1 min walk as a practice for the 50-miler.  During the run this week, I never saw 9:36 until mile 12 and ran an 8:49 for mile 3 - which includes the walking.  I also need to remember that for me drinking to thirst is not enough.  I finished the run and failed the pee color test miserably.  I don't have any runs longer than 12 before the 50k, so will have to really focus on these things come race day.  The good news is that as of now, I'm perfectly comfortable with the 50k being a long run in the company of others with bibs, not a race.  Just hope I can execute on that come race day (my record in this area kinda sucks as I clearly demonstrated with the HM prior to CIM pale ).

The good news is that on the 10 I ran the following day, the legs felt really good until about mile 9 where they reminded me gently of the previous day's run.  I set the goal to keep the HR in z1 for this run and did so, averaging a pace of 9:13.  This would have been disappointing for a standalone 10, but as the back end of the back to back, I'll take it.

Today was Valentine's Day of course.  My wife and I really stopped celebrating this between us years ago and focused on the kids, and now grandkids.  So I was able to start out my day like every other Saturday with a crack o'dawn round of golf without a side of guilt.  And guess what, I got a hole-in-one today!  Pretty sweet, but not as sweet as it was when we went up to see the grandkids today and at the restaurant we went to for lunch, my 3 year old granddaughter ran up to me, jumped into my lap and wrapped me up completely for a hug that went on for a full minute.  Simply an indescribable feeling of love, joy and happiness.  So while I may not have had a winning run today, I had a truly winning day.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mark B on Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:41 am

Actually, it sounds to me that your runs went pretty well. Though the grandchild hug does trump it. Smile

Which 50K are you running, and when is it?
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:43 am

Mark, it is the Lake Natoma 50k on March 1.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mark B on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:06 am

Tom H wrote:Mark, it is the Lake Natoma 50k on March 1.

Deep in the heart of Folsom! Make sure to wave at the inmates when you run past the prison!

Just counted the weeks between now and my 50K, and looked at what plans suggest, and I'm feeling just the teensiest bit of anxiety starting to build. Shocked
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tim C on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:02 am

Congrats on the runs, the hug & the hole-in-one. Sounds like an awesome day.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:48 pm

Now that the last long run before the 50k is done, time to make final decisions on race day strategy.  Looking for some sanity checking.

The neat thing about this course is that 15 miles of it are also in the first 15 of the AR50, so I get some preview.  For the 50k, here's what the course looks like in terms of elevation:



Current thinking:

1) It's not a race, it is a group long run/shakedown in prep for the AR50.  Don't finish damaged or unable to pick up training as planned.

2) Pace - Start. Out. Slow.  Goal is to have no mile in the first 15 faster than a 9:30 with the exception of the 400' downhill in miles 4-7, but don't pound those out either.  I'll have to remind myself after the faster turnover/longer strides of the downhill to watch the pace.  Use the 5/1 run/walk ratio as planned for the AR50.

3) Nutrition - Thought I had this one nailed with the Infinit mix, but switched to a smaller 2-hour (4 oz every 30 minutes) soft-side bottle that is more comfortable in my ultra vest and find that my current formulation makes the last serving undrinkable due to foaming.  Think this can be fixed with a reformulation and will address on Monday.  If not, then will replace the last serving with a gel and if warm, salt tab.  Will be carrying gels and perhaps some boiled potatoes as this is a very small race and I have low expectations for aid station offerings.  Basically will be prepared to be self-supported except for H20 refills.

4) Hydration - Will need to drink to plan, not to thirst as thirst for me is not a good indication of body hydration.  Did two sweat tests that indicate I get rid of >30 oz./hour but don't think I can actually consume that much.  Will aim for 24 oz./hour and when refilling bottles, take in as much as feels comfortable.  Should be Ok as I'll also be getting hydration from the Infinite at the rate of ~8 oz/hour  Will also redo sweat test one more time before the race to get a last data point.

5) Shoes - Looks like the course follows a paved bike path for the vast majority of the way, so road shoes are indicated.  I'm hoping that there is a gravel side to the American River bike trail along a good part of it so I can take advantage of a softer surface as much as possible.  Will wear my Dirty Girl gaiters to keep shoes crap free.

Everything I read says there is a big difference between a marathon and a 50k, so what am I missing?
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:55 pm

So y'know that slow group that you get caught behind at the beginning of like, every race, and you always get frustrated and have to wait for the opening to zoom past them?  Don't zoom past them.  That's the difference between a marathon and a 50k.  That slow group is now a group of your closest friends for the next 10 miles.  After that, maybe you can zoom by them.

You probably don't need the gaiters.  I've run most of that course and as long as you're not dragging your feet, you're not going to get stuff in your shoes.

Watch out for cyclists.  I'm betting it's not a closed course, and cyclists are not friendly about people in the middle of the bike trail.  You're supposed to stay to the left, too, and most runners don't.  

There's a dirt shoulder on much of the Lake Natoma loop; however, dirt means slower splits for the same effort, in general.  But yes, it might be good to take advantage of it from time to time.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:11 pm

Mike, I never thought of latching on to what I considered a slower runner as a pace buddy, but that's a great idea, thanks!

I don't know what it is about my gait or my shoes, but I pick up pebbles like nobody else.  My running partner will go on a 10 mile run on an asphalt bike path and she'll get nothing at all in her shoes and I'll have to stop twice to dig out the offending items.  The gaiters I'm using weigh only about 0.5 oz. so not a big additional drag, and anyway, who else will be running with skulls around their ankles?



I've read about the cyclists in race reports and reviews and it does sound like there are some fairly aggressive ones out there.  I think I saw somewhere there are frequent messages painted on the surface of the trail for walkers and joggers to stay left.  This is totally counter to what is done on my trail here in town, so will have to pay special attention to that.
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mike MacLellan on Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:36 am

You just wanted to show off those calf veins.  

Yes, there are frequent reminders, which many people ignore.  I've always followed the runners-stay-left thing, since it's also the law on roads, but it seems like the ARBT is the only one to actually enforce it.  All the mixed use trails here are runners-stay-right, as are the ones near Aileen's parents' house (I still stay left on those).
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Tom H on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:30 pm

I must admit that phlebotomists have been known to swoon when I go to their labs for a blood draw . . .
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  nkrichards on Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:35 pm

Sounds like Valentines Day was an especially nice one this year. Very Happy 

Looks like plans are coming together for your 50K.  You're taking care of all the details ahead of time...  Enjoy taper...
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Re: 50+ Years Behind, 50 Miles Ahead

Post  Mark B on Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:49 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:So y'know that slow group that you get caught behind at the beginning of like, every race, and you always get frustrated and have to wait for the opening to zoom past them?  Don't zoom past them.  That's the difference between a marathon and a 50k.  That slow group is now a group of your closest friends for the next 10 miles.  After that, maybe you can zoom by them.

After spending the first 10 miles of the Eugene Marathon with you, I heartily second Mike's suggestion. Go out too hard at the start of a longer race and you may end up in a sufferfest -- or not finishing at all.
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