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Sub 1:29 on 10/11 for NYC Qualifier

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Post  Dave P on Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:05 am

Hello everyone! Sorry for the lack of input here, but I'll try to be more of an active member as my HM training builds up. As a review, my half PR is 1:29:22 at Hartford last year. I'm aiming to at least knock of 22 seconds at that same race this year in order to qualify for the NYC Marathon. I've had a few sub 20 5K's this summer as I've had fun with the short & quick speedwork. My best this year was 19:02.

The short speed stuff & 5K summer racing is now behind me. Time for serious HM training (longer intervals & tempos.) 10 mi TM run this morning due to torrential rain. After a 2mi warm-up, did 3x1 mi intervals. 1st two 9.5mph (6:18 pace) & last one at 9.3mph (6:27 pace.) .25mi recoveries at 5mph jog & then finished it off with a few miles at 7mph. Thinking about pulling a double today - I'm hungry for more. I've been averaging in the 50's to 60's per week for a couple months.
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Post  ounce on Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:27 am

Dang, Dave!  Have 50 and 60 mile weeks been the norm for you in past summers?

What time do you need for qualifying, now that you're an old man?  And safe training to you, too.
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Post  Dave P on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:50 pm

@ounce wrote:Dang, Dave!  Have 50 and 60 mile weeks been the norm for you in past summers?

What time do you need for qualifying, now that you're an old man?  And safe training to you, too.
 Yep, that's been my average base mileage for a few years now. I turned 50 this month, so 1:29 is my half qualifying time for NYC.
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Post  ounce on Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:28 pm

@Dave P wrote:
@ounce wrote:Dang, Dave!  Have 50 and 60 mile weeks been the norm for you in past summers?

What time do you need for qualifying, now that you're an old man?  And safe training to you, too.
 Yep, that's been my average base mileage for a few years now. I turned 50 this month, so 1:29 is my half qualifying time for NYC.

Yeah, we noticed.  http://www.365runners.com/t2796-someone-is-a-half-century-old-today
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Post  Nick Morris on Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:12 pm

Dave, it looks like you have put all of the components in place this summer to put in a fast HM time. I think that the speedwork will go a long ways for you.

Good luck with your training and look forward to following along...
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Post  Dave P on Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:38 pm

After a few so-so long runs, I had a great 16 miler today. I made it a hard fartlek over steep hills. 15th mile was in 7:03 & 8:05 ave overall.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:30 pm

@Dave P wrote:After a few so-so long runs, I had a great 16 miler today. I made it a hard fartlek over steep hills. 15th mile was in 7:03 & 8:05 ave overall.
 Yeah!  Sounds like we had similar runs well except for miles with 7s in front of them.
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Post  Chris M on Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:46 pm

Get on a treadmill and run a 5K in under 20:00 (6:26 pace).   Take 3-4 mins max off either walking or getting water etc.  Repeat.  Do that 2 x 3.1 and you ready to groove a 1:28:XX half in race no prob.
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Post  Dave P on Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:03 pm

@Chris M wrote:Get on a treadmill and run a 5K in under 20:00 (6:26 pace).   Take 3-4 mins max off either walking or getting water etc.  Repeat.  Do that 2 x 3.1 and you ready to groove a 1:28:XX half in race no prob.
I did a 19:02 5K this summer.
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Post  Dave P on Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:03 pm

8 Yasso 800's in an ave time of 3:07 on a hot day (after water & a snack, I was still down 3.5 lbs.)
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Post  Jim Lentz on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:29 am

Nice!
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Post  Chris M on Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:58 pm

@Dave P wrote:
@Chris M wrote:Get on a treadmill and run a 5K in under 20:00 (6:26 pace).   Take 3-4 mins max off either walking or getting water etc.  Repeat.  Do that 2 x 3.1 and you ready to groove a 1:28:XX half in race no prob.
I did a 19:02 5K this summer.

But that's not what you need for a 1:29 half.  That's all speed. Endurance will be demonstrated off of tempo pace for longer intervals which is why 2x3.1 at 19:59 each (6:25 pace) with 3-4 mins Rest Interval is a better indicator than 19-flat of 1 x 3.1 (6:07 pace).  

Think of this way....you want to be able to do 10x800 at 3:00 flat or better to feel like sub 1:29 is in the bag.   The recent workout of 8x800 at 3:07 indicates to me that speed is not a problem for you but endurance may be a limiting factor.

So.....long tempo intervals like 2 x 3.1 or (less good) 3 x 2 miles. 

I've run 8-9 sub 1:29s and every time I would do a 2 x 3.1 as a tune up to show myself that I could hold 6:25 at a "comfortably hard" pace so that 6:45 would feel very doable for 13.1.     If I crashed on the 2nd 5k of the practice set (1st one is easy) then I knew I wasn't ready to hold a decent pace through a whole half.
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Post  Dave P on Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:09 pm

@Chris M wrote:
@Dave P wrote:
@Chris M wrote:Get on a treadmill and run a 5K in under 20:00 (6:26 pace).   Take 3-4 mins max off either walking or getting water etc.  Repeat.  Do that 2 x 3.1 and you ready to groove a 1:28:XX half in race no prob.
I did a 19:02 5K this summer.

But that's not what you need for a 1:29 half.  That's all speed. Endurance will be demonstrated off of tempo pace for longer intervals which is why 2x3.1 at 19:59 each (6:25 pace) with 3-4 mins Rest Interval is a better indicator than 19-flat of 1 x 3.1 (6:07 pace).  

Think of this way....you want to be able to do 10x800 at 3:00 flat or better to feel like sub 1:29 is in the bag.   The recent workout of 8x800 at 3:07 indicates to me that speed is not a problem for you but endurance may be a limiting factor.

So.....long tempo intervals like 2 x 3.1 or (less good) 3 x 2 miles. 

I've run 8-9 sub 1:29s and every time I would do a 2 x 3.1 as a tune up to show myself that I could hold 6:25 at a "comfortably hard" pace so that 6:45 would feel very doable for 13.1.     If I crashed on the 2nd 5k of the practice set (1st one is easy) then I knew I wasn't ready to hold a decent pace through a whole half.
I get it Chris, & I'm starting to get back to tempos & long intervals for this training cycle. 6 weeks out from Boston this year I did 2x3 miles on roads with an ave 6:33 pace during the intervals. That was also with only a .25 mi recovery in 2:27. Also, 7 weeks out from Boston, I did a 7mi tempo on the TM at 8.9mph (6:45), which is my goal pace for this HM. I'm planning to aim for 4 miles at that pace outside next week & then add mile & multiple mile intervals with more tempos.
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Post  Chris M on Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:56 am

@Dave P wrote:
@Chris M wrote:
@Dave P wrote:
@Chris M wrote:Get on a treadmill and run a 5K in under 20:00 (6:26 pace).   Take 3-4 mins max off either walking or getting water etc.  Repeat.  Do that 2 x 3.1 and you ready to groove a 1:28:XX half in race no prob.
I did a 19:02 5K this summer.

But that's not what you need for a 1:29 half.  That's all speed. Endurance will be demonstrated off of tempo pace for longer intervals which is why 2x3.1 at 19:59 each (6:25 pace) with 3-4 mins Rest Interval is a better indicator than 19-flat of 1 x 3.1 (6:07 pace).  

Think of this way....you want to be able to do 10x800 at 3:00 flat or better to feel like sub 1:29 is in the bag.   The recent workout of 8x800 at 3:07 indicates to me that speed is not a problem for you but endurance may be a limiting factor.

So.....long tempo intervals like 2 x 3.1 or (less good) 3 x 2 miles. 

I've run 8-9 sub 1:29s and every time I would do a 2 x 3.1 as a tune up to show myself that I could hold 6:25 at a "comfortably hard" pace so that 6:45 would feel very doable for 13.1.     If I crashed on the 2nd 5k of the practice set (1st one is easy) then I knew I wasn't ready to hold a decent pace through a whole half.
I get it Chris, & I'm starting to get back to tempos & long intervals for this training cycle. 6 weeks out from Boston this year I did 2x3 miles on roads with an ave 6:33 pace during the intervals. That was also with only a .25 mi recovery in 2:27. Also, 7 weeks out from Boston, I did a 7mi tempo on the TM at 8.9mph (6:45), which is my goal pace for this HM. I'm planning to aim for 4 miles at that pace outside next week & then add mile & multiple mile intervals with more tempos.

Yup, that would do it.  If you could tempo 7 miles at 6:44 pace (8.9 mph) again you would be golden for the race.  I'd call that equivalent to doing the 2x3.1 at 6:26 pace.  Personally, I like doing some faster-than-race-pace work in the tempos because it makes race pace feel easier.  But geesh, doing a 7 mile tempo is brutal and nothing easy about that.  Just personally I'd find it more palatable to run faster for a shorter segment and I find that makes race pace something that feels easy at least for the first half of the race.

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Post  Dave P on Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:19 am

Thanks again for the input Chris.

Speed today & I nailed it!! Praise Jesus!! 

Goal was 4 mi @ goal HM pace (6:45 or better.) 

Warm-up 2 mi at 9:04 pace (126 hr), then 4 mi at 6:39 pace (161 hr.) Then just for fun, I threw down a 5th mi in 6:14 (171 hr 95% of max.) I finished with another 7 mi “extended” cool-down at 8:13 pace. 

Total 14 miler was in 1:48:37.
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Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:38 am

Very nice!
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Post  Dave P on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:59 am

A recurrence of lower back pain (it's been > 1 yr since the last time) is preventing me from being able to drive or sit. However, zero pain while running.
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Post  Dave P on Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:19 pm

Ended up doing 20 in hot & humid conditions over steep hills at an 8:40 pace. One 20 oz bottle of water switched out for another 20 oz bottle with Heed (Hammer Nutrition.) Two gels & at least a half dozen salt pills. Ditched the shirt at 9 miles & my shorts were like I just jumped in a pool. I should have stashed a 3rd bottle of hydration.
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Post  Michael Enright on Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:49 pm

Nice job toughing it out on a brutal day in CT!
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Post  Dave P on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:44 pm

5 mile tempo/ HM goal pace (6:45 or better):

After a 2 mi warm-up at an 8:30 pace, I had a slow start to the tempo with only a 7:06 for the 1st mi. This was discouraging, but with my effort not changing, I eventually was able to get the 3rd & 4th miles at a 6:38 pace. Finished with the 5th mile in 6:18 (increased effort.) Recovery was at a 7:44 pace. The average for all 5 miles of the tempo portion was 6:43 over varied terrain & some slight hills. Mission accomplished.

Total run was 8.32 miles in 1:00:48 (ave 7:19 pace overall)
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Post  Jim Lentz on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:10 pm

Nice job on the run!
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:35 pm

Nice work, Dave.
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Post  Dave P on Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:31 am

2nd speed this wk: 4x1 mi at ave 6:35 pace (164 hr.) 
8.34 mi total in 1:04:36 (7:45 pace overall.) 
My hr went down to about 150 for .25 mi jog recoveries & for the rest of the run, so that's a good indication that I'm not over-training.
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Post  Dave P on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:17 pm

Sub 1:29 on 10/11 for NYC Qualifier <a href=Sub 1:29 on 10/11 for NYC Qualifier 2015_b10" />
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Post  Jim Lentz on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:45 am

@Dave P wrote:Sub 1:29 on 10/11 for NYC Qualifier <a href=Sub 1:29 on 10/11 for NYC Qualifier 2015_b10" />
Cool!
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