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Survival of the fittest

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Dave Wolfe
Dave P
Nick Morris
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Mark B
nkrichards
Michele "1L" Keane
Jim Lentz
Alex Kubacki
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Post  Mark B Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:03 pm

nkrichards wrote:Have I just not run consistently enough to get my legs back to where they need to be? 

I'd put my money on this explanation. I remember reading some coach (I think it was Hal) talking about how huge a cardio base he'd built cross-country skiing didn't translate to instant success once he got back running again in the spring. Those running muscles need to be reconditioned! Lather, rinse repeat. Very Happy

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Post  ounce Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:45 pm

Mark B wrote:
nkrichards wrote:Have I just not run consistently enough to get my legs back to where they need to be? 

I'd put my money on this explanation. I remember reading some coach (I think it was Hal) talking about how huge a cardio base he'd built cross-country skiing didn't translate to instant success once he got back running again in the spring. Those running muscles need to be reconditioned! Lather, rinse repeat. Very Happy
Yeah, I seem to remember Hal's comments about that, too. 

Possibly remember that the heart is the first thing to get to a normal or new normal heart rate.  After all, the heart just beats.  It doesn't support its own weight (the arteries and veins hold it in place).  It's the one thing I don't like about the heart in that for me, it's not a good gauge of how I'm doing in training.  The legs are for me because it has to haul my fat ass around.
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Post  nkrichards Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:52 am

ounce wrote:
Mark B wrote:
nkrichards wrote:Have I just not run consistently enough to get my legs back to where they need to be? 

I'd put my money on this explanation. I remember reading some coach (I think it was Hal) talking about how huge a cardio base he'd built cross-country skiing didn't translate to instant success once he got back running again in the spring. Those running muscles need to be reconditioned! Lather, rinse repeat. Very Happy
Yeah, I seem to remember Hal's comments about that, too. 

Possibly remember that the heart is the first thing to get to a normal or new normal heart rate.  After all, the heart just beats.  It doesn't support its own weight (the arteries and veins hold it in place).  It's the one thing I don't like about the heart in that for me, it's not a good gauge of how I'm doing in training.  The legs are for me because it has to haul my fat ass around.
I'm sure that you're probably right.  It doesn't seem like I've put that much more effort into swimming compared to running but I have probably been more consistent and worked at it a bit harder as I swim with partners that help me be accountable.  I guess I just need to get out there and get lots more relatively easy miles on these old legs of mine and wait for them to remember how to run.


*******

So Monday afternoon I took the bike off the trainer and headed outside.  It was a beautiful day!  9.3 miles at a relatively easy pace. 14.7 mph HR avg/max 118/149  It felt pretty awkward at first but I settled in and had a nice ride.

Tuesday -  early morning core/strength
             - 4.15 mi @ 11:42 HR 121/156  w/3 @ 9:44 HR 137/156 
                    10:01 HR 128
                      9:48 HR 140
                      9:22 HR 144
I didn't feel very well...finally decided that even a bad run would be better than sitting in the house feeling sorry for myself.  And it was sunny!  So off I went.  I decided to push the pace again today...don't have a lot of patience right now.  Arms/legs started in with that tingling/numbness fairly quickly but the heart was feeling fine so I pushed on.  It seemed to get better as the run progressed.  Oddly enough even though the HR doesn't show it this was a tough run for me...I wouldn't have been able to keep up the pace much longer.  Come on legs...catch up!  First run with a pace under 10:00 so I was pretty pleased.  I felt it afterward.  I'd forgotten how the muscles felt after a hard effort.  Muscles feel fine today but my resting HR is up to 50...it's been 44-46 for the last few days..so I know I've got some recovery to do.  I know I need to start concentrating on getting more miles on these old legs...and they are going to have to be slower miles to accomplish that goal.

*****

I'm going to have a very long talk with Dr. B about my meds next week.  I'm wondering if I can reduce the dosage of my meds and help improve my circulation without putting myself at risk.  Seems like a resting HR in the mid 40's is plenty low.  I started logging my BP and oxygen to show him.  Oxygen has been 97% most days but I've had several readings of 95-96%.  BP is averaging 105/64 when at rest.  In addition to the arm/leg tingling/numbness I've been having trouble staying warm.  I feel fine while exercising but when I'm sedentary I just don't feel quite right.
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Post  Mark B Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:40 pm

I think a conversation with your doctor is a good idea. If adjusting dosages can help with these weird things you've got going on, it's definitely worth considering.

Oh, and even though you've got "old legs," remember they're still fast! Very Happy

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Post  nkrichards Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:16 pm

Mark B wrote:I think a conversation with your doctor is a good idea. If adjusting dosages can help with these weird things you've got going on, it's definitely worth considering.

Oh, and even though you've got "old legs," remember they're still fast! Very Happy

Yes Mark...I'm looking forward to my appointment with Dr. B on Tuesday.

Not sure I consider my old legs fast but they are what I have to work with so work with them I will.

******

Wednesday was another beautiful day in Central Oregon...cold but sunny and spectacular.
        - Swim 2150 yds coached swim with LOTS of sprints.  Very challenging...I loved it
        - Bike 9.34 mi @ 14.5mph HR 117/149  I couldn't resist getting out there in the beautiful weather but knew I needed to keep it pretty easy after my hard swim.

Thursday - I headed off to Mt. Bachelor for a skate ski lesson.  I struggled!  Conditions weren't great as it had melted the day before and then refroze overnight.  My instructor was very patient and tried to be encouraging.  I made very little forward progress.  It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.  I'm going to try and get back up to the mountain for a couple more lessons this spring.

I think I've mentioned the Pole Pedal Paddle.  It's a multi-sport event in mid-May.  Downhill ski, cross country ski, bike, run, kayak, sprint.  I would like to do the event as an individual if I'm able to learn all the necessary skills (skiing).  If that's not realistic my kids would love to put together a team with me.  I'm not trying for 2016.  2017 at the earliest and 2018 would be OK.

Friday - I was exhausted after my ski lesson so it was early to bed Thursday night.  I expected to be quite sore this morning but woke up feeling pretty good other than a huge bruise on one hip.  Very little muscle soreness!
         - Swim 1500 yds.  We did 3 x 500 all at a strong but fairly easy pace.  Felt good.

Hoping to get out for a run this afternoon if the weather holds...
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Post  ounce Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:42 pm

If I could learn the skiing and paddle part, I think it'd be a hoot to do that.  Unfortunately, it'll never happen.  Regarding this morning, you didn't happen to notice your heart rate when you woke up, did you?  Probably a little higher, due to the maintenance occurring on the legs.
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Post  nkrichards Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:37 pm

ounce wrote:If I could learn the skiing and paddle part, I think it'd be a hoot to do that.  Unfortunately, it'll never happen.  Regarding this morning, you didn't happen to notice your heart rate when you woke up, did you?  Probably a little higher, due to the maintenance occurring on the legs.

I paddled the race route last summer and did fine.  Not so sure about the skiing though.

Interesting HR question Doug.  I've been watching my resting HR a bit closer since I increased my training efforts.

My Basis Peak syncs to an app on my phone each morning and a few minutes later it gives me data about my previous nights sleep and a resting HR for the current day.  The resting HR number doesn't change once it's posted so I'm confident it's based on data collected during that sleeping period.  I've been meaning to do some detective work and figure out how they actually come up with the resting HR and what influences the sleep percentage calculation but haven't had time yet.

So...my RHR has consistently been between 44 and 46.  Wednesday morning it was 50.  Cause?  Tuesday was the day I did 3 mi @ 9:44.  Significantly faster than anything I've done recently.  And I didn't sleep well Tuesday night.  One or the other or both.

I expected it to be high again on Thursday as I put a lot of effort into my swim session, biked 9 miles, and didn't sleep well Wednesday night.  It was only 45 ???????

I was pooped after my skiing outing on Thursday and expected to wake up with a lot of muscle soreness and a high RHR.  Nope.  46  I did go to bed an hour early and got a very good nights sleep.  Did the extra sleep aid in my recovery that much?  I hope so.  Of course there is the chance I could wake up tomorrow morning with significant DOMS.



****

Update...Sat morning RHR 45  Woke up fairly stiff but not necessarily sore.  Not what I would consider DOMS.


Last edited by nkrichards on Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Update)
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Post  nkrichards Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:28 pm

Oops...its been a few days since I updated.

Fri - I did make it out for an afternoon run.
     - 5.5 mi @ 11:22 w/5 @ 10:46 HR 133/150  Started easy and accidently turned this into a moderate progression run.  Felt good.

Sat - Bike 11.38 mi @ 14.1 HR 113/146  Did the longer loop to the pool.  Pretty slow but not unexpected.

Sun - Much needed rest day

Mon - Core/strength
       - Swim 2400 yds w/coach Included 22x25.  Nice workout!
       - Bike 11.39 mi @ 15.0  HR 104/163 (?)  Much more comfortable ride on the pool loop.



So I'm off to visit with Dr. B today...will I be able to transition out of survival mode and start a new blog with new goals? scratch
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Post  nkrichards Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:44 pm

Loooong day today. 

Long story short...Dr. B has released me with absolutely no restrictions on activity.  He said a marathon in the future is fine. cheers Running Ride Running

More details tomorrow but I'm pretty pleased with our conversation.
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Post  ounce Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:08 am

nkrichards wrote:Loooong day today. 

Long story short...Dr. B has released me with absolutely no restrictions on activity.  He said a marathon in the future is fine. cheers Running Ride Running

More details tomorrow but I'm pretty pleased with our conversation.
Woohoo!!!  Oh my gosh, SHE'S LOOSE UPON THE WORLD!!!!!

none of this, though......

Sweaty Shots
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:30 pm

nkrichards wrote:Loooong day today. 

Long story short...Dr. B has released me with absolutely no restrictions on activity.  He said a marathon in the future is fine. cheers Running Ride Running

More details tomorrow but I'm pretty pleased with our conversation.
Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post  Mark B Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:46 pm

nkrichards wrote:Loooong day today. 

Long story short...Dr. B has released me with absolutely no restrictions on activity.  He said a marathon in the future is fine. cheers Running Ride Running

More details tomorrow but I'm pretty pleased with our conversation.

Wooooooot!!!

cheers cheers cheers

Fantastic news! Saddle up!

Ride


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Post  nkrichards Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:53 pm

Woohoo is right Doug and Michele...I've been on cloud nine since my visit with Dr. B!!

So here's the long story.  There is absolutely no medical reason why I can't run a marathon or do anything else I want.  But...he was obligated to remind me that there is always a risk and my risk is slightly higher now that I've had one cardiac event and we know I have vulnerable plaque.  He still thinks the risk is so small that I shouldn't allow it to affect what I do. 

I do have some heart damage but he said it's minimal and doesn't seem to be affecting my hearts pumping action.  In other words no funny sounds when he listens or odd readings on the EKG.

I will be on 81 mg of aspirin and a statin for life.  The statin is primarily responsible for helping my vulnerable plaque stay where it belongs.  Even though I'm not a big fan of statins or drugs in general I'm not going to argue about this one.

I will be allowed to go off the anti-platelet (blood thinner) in mid-April...one year anniversary.  He encouraged me to hold off on the ski lessons and riding my unicycle until after that date as it's not far away. Very Happy  

I have to continue to take the beta-blocker.  It helps regulate my HR and BP by blocking the effects of adrenaline.  He said that the current recommendation is that once you have a cardiac event you are on a beta-blocker for life.  But that recommendation is under discussion and he feels like the recommendation in the future will be that if you don't have any symptoms you can go off the beta-blocker.  The question is when...he thinks it will be years not months.  Gives the heart more time to heal.  He indicated we would start that discussion at my visit in 12 months.

Mark...we talked about my arm/leg tingling/numbness.  He said it is not related to my heart.  It's not uncommon and is caused by the nerves being compressed when the blood flow increases and the arteries/veins swell and crowd the nerves.  I tracked my HR and BP a couple times a day for two weeks and took him those figures.  BP of 100/60 and a RHR of 45 seemed a bit low to me but he said those figures are excellent for an active, fit person on beta-blockers.

He did warn me that I may have trouble returning to my previous running speeds while on a beta-blocker.  He encouraged me to run another marathon but suggested I not worry as much about the numbers as I have in the past.  He suggested I slow down and enjoy the experience.  Not sure I can do that...we'll see.  I guess some people exercise well on beta-blockers and others really struggle.  Time will tell. 

So...I think I can move on from survival mode to living again!  I'm going to take a couple days to figure out some goals and start a new blog.  I'm looking forward to starting this journey...woohoo...... bounce Running Running Running
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Post  ounce Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:07 pm

nkrichards wrote:

I have to continue to take the beta-blocker.  It helps regulate my HR and BP by blocking the effects of adrenaline.  He said that the current recommendation is that once you have a cardiac event you are on a beta-blocker for life.  But that recommendation is under discussion and he feels like the recommendation in the future will be that if you don't have any symptoms you can go off the beta-blocker.  The question is when...he thinks it will be years not months. 
That's really good news.  I'm glad you reported the detail, so I can file away the purpose of each item.  While you've been on the anti-coagulent, have you noticed if you bruise easier than usual?  Good to be able to get off that one.

The bolded part of the above is why the doctor can avoid a 'proximate cause' ruling because he's following the 'current recommendation.'  Just mentioning it.  Nothing else.
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Post  Mark B Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:34 pm

That is great news! And a new blog sounds like a terrific idea, too.

This has got to be the longest post-race recovery ever. Congratulations that you're finally done with it! Very Happy

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Post  nkrichards Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:33 pm

ounce wrote:
nkrichards wrote:

I have to continue to take the beta-blocker.  It helps regulate my HR and BP by blocking the effects of adrenaline.  He said that the current recommendation is that once you have a cardiac event you are on a beta-blocker for life.  But that recommendation is under discussion and he feels like the recommendation in the future will be that if you don't have any symptoms you can go off the beta-blocker.  The question is when...he thinks it will be years not months. 
That's really good news.  I'm glad you reported the detail, so I can file away the purpose of each item.  While you've been on the anti-coagulent, have you noticed if you bruise easier than usual?  Good to be able to get off that one.

The bolded part of the above is why the doctor can avoid a 'proximate cause' ruling because he's following the 'current recommendation.'  Just mentioning it.  Nothing else.
 
Yes, Doug I'm sure that Dr. Bs recommendations are to make sure he's protecting himself and his job.  It's to bad the system is set up that way.  That said I think that the fact that he is a marathon runner helps.  I think he has a tendency to maybe be a bit more understanding and honest but include that caveat that protects him.

I do bruise very easily...sometimes I can't even recall the cause of the bruise.  But the biggest concern is a fall or injury that causes internal bleeding...especially head injuries.  I don't mind being a bit cautious for another 5 weeks.

Mark B
That is great news! And a new blog sounds like a terrific idea, too.

This has got to be the longest post-race recovery ever. Congratulations that you're finally done with it!
Mark...Yes, longest post-race recovery is an understatement!

It's a huge relief to have those restrictions lifted and know that I'm at least working towards decreasing my medication a bit.  I've been able to run, bike, and swim for quite some time but not knowing what my limits were was tough.  I need concrete goals and now know I can choose them.  I have some goal races in mind but it's going to take some time to develop appropriate goal times.  I'm very curious to see how things go while I'm still on the beta-blocker.  in the last few days several people have warned me that it may be difficult.

Looking forward to developing a new blog in the next few days.

****

And now...off for a run before company arrives for the weekend.
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Post  nkrichards Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:28 am

Family obligations are making life hectic...

Here's what I've been doing the last few days:

Wed - Core/strength
       - Swim 2300 yds.  Last 500 was timed.  9:51  That's a 6 second PR!!!! (pre-cardiac event)

Thurs - 7 mi @ 11:30 w/6 @ 10:41 HR 147/162  Nice progression run
         - Bike 11.41 mi @ 14.6 mph HR 128/154  Windy and I was pooped!

Fri - Core/strength
     - Swim 2650 yds!  Tough workout!!
     - Bike 11.39 @ 14.4 mph HR 125/147 Started strong but faded...

Sat - 5.1 mi @ 11:57 w/4 @ 10:28 HR 145/161 early run before family arrived

Sun - Much needed rest day!!!

Mon - Core/strength
       - Swim 2200 yds.  included some nice 50yd sprints
       - Bike 11.38 mi @ 14.7 HR 111/143  Windy & chilly

Still thinking about goals and a new blog...
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Post  ounce Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:26 pm

Well, you haven't been slacking.  Keep up the activities!
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Post  nkrichards Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:36 pm

ounce wrote:Well, you haven't been slacking.  Keep up the activities!

 No slacking here!  Just trying to find enough time to work and train...and enjoying the absence of restrictions on my activities.

I guess it's been a few days since I reported on my progress...

Tues - 4.36 mi @ 11:00 w 4 x 30 second striders.  Enjoyed the speedier bits (7:30 avg pace during striders)

Wed - Core/strength
       - Swim 2600 yds.  Struggled to maintain pace at the end of the workout.
       - to stormy for biking

Thur - 4.25 mi  w/2 mi @ 9:48 HR 136/155 Struggled to maintain pace for that long.  Felt good.

Fri - Core/strength
     - Swim 2050 yds with lots of 50 yd sprints.

Sat. - Vaught Trot 10K 1:02:11 pace 10:09.  Struggled on the hills but recovered quickly and finished well.
This was a last minute fundraiser for a local man who was injured and can't work.  The turnout was awesome on a day when the weather was iffy.  Weather cooperated for the actual race and it was a very successful and fun event.

Sun - Rest day and family stuff.

Mon - Core/strength
       - Swim 1750 yds w/timed 500 @ 9:45.  That's another PR (6 seconds) and I was the only swimmer to swim a negative split!!
       - to stormy for biking this afternoon.

Swimming is going great!  Biking time has been limited by the weather.  Running is going OK.  I'm seeing glimmers of hope now and then.  I realize that I haven't invested the time or effort required to be improving in leaps and bounds but I can see some improvement.  Hopefully this slow and steady effort will get me to where I want to be safely.

Goals??? 
A century ride?  No time goals.  All I have to do is finish and I'll have a PR.
Another marathon...maybe CIM...it was my first in 2009.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:53 am

Progress is awesome, Nancy.  Keep up the great work as you are an inspiration!
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Post  nkrichards Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:35 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Progress is awesome, Nancy.  Keep up the great work as you are an inspiration!

Thanks Michele.  The words of encouragement are greatly appreciated.

******

Sorry for the long absence.  I had intended to start my new blog but life's been a bit complicated the last few days.  I was feeling like I was rapidly spiraling back into survival mode.  No health issues...just life.  I was feeling pretty sorry for myself but I've decided I'm sick and tired of being in survival mode...no pun intended.  I refuse to go back there.  No details necessary...I don't need to make excuses.  I just need to do what I can do and enjoy it!!

So here is what I did.

Tues - babysit the boys

Wed - Core
       - Swim 2400 yds
 
Thur - 5 mi @ 10:29  Started easy but turned into a progression run.  Walked .25 for a cool down.
        - Bike 11.39 mi @ 13.9mph Really slow but I got it done.

Fri - Core
     - Swim 2150 yds

Sat - Bike 18.32 mi @ 14.6mph Nice speed for the longer distance.  Tough to stay in the saddle that long.

Sun - 7 mi @ 10:27 Way faster than I intended and I ventured out on a hillier route.  Walked .25 to cool down.

Mon - Swim 2250 yds

Tues - 4.55 mi w/4 x 30 second striders @ 7:58

Wed - Core
       - Swim 2500 yds

I refuse to languish in survival mode any longer!!!
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Post  Mark B Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:20 am

Just keep moving, Nancy! Survival will take care of itself.

You ran CIM in 2009? So did I! It was my first sub-4, and it was pretty awesome. Smile

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Survival of the fittest - Page 20 Empty Re: Survival of the fittest

Post  nkrichards Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:35 pm

Mark B wrote:Just keep moving, Nancy! Survival will take care of itself.

You ran CIM in 2009? So did I! It was my first sub-4, and it was pretty awesome. Smile


Mark, I intend to move out of survival mode and on to something a bit more positive!

Yes, CIM was my first marathon. 4:14:59  It was awesome but I hit the wall HARD the last 2 or 3 miles.  My son, 2 daughter-in-laws and daughter formed a relay.  They took off without me but I caught up with Katie and she ran across the finish line with me.  I have great memories of the trip and the race.  It was COLD!!

Can you think of a better place to run my post cardiac event marathon?  California here we come!
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Survival of the fittest - Page 20 Empty Re: Survival of the fittest

Post  Mark B Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:22 pm

nkrichards wrote:
Mark B wrote:Just keep moving, Nancy! Survival will take care of itself.

You ran CIM in 2009? So did I! It was my first sub-4, and it was pretty awesome. Smile


Mark, I intend to move out of survival mode and on to something a bit more positive!

Yes, CIM was my first marathon. 4:14:59  It was awesome but I hit the wall HARD the last 2 or 3 miles.  My son, 2 daughter-in-laws and daughter formed a relay.  They took off without me but I caught up with Katie and she ran across the finish line with me.  I have great memories of the trip and the race.  It was COLD!!

Can you think of a better place to run my post cardiac event marathon?  California here we come!

Yeah, it was cold, but that made it great! I was able to toss my throwaway hoodie after 3-4 miles and cruised the rest of the way in shorts and a short-sleeved shirt. Excess heat buildup - my nemesis when I'm racing distance - was a non-factor.

I've finished faster, but CIM 2009 was my best marathon.

And yeah, it's a great choice.

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