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Fracking the system

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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:46 pm

Tuesday morning was another 9 mile run at 174 cadence and if history is any judge, I should be slower than Monday and I was.  There were times when I spent a lot of the return miles focused on a section of the road to keep my cadence up.  So, this week is more of an endurance building exercise, than actually trying to get better at 174 cadence.

I am looking forward to lowering the cadence to the extent that I can start running further at 70% of max (140 bpm).

It was 78 degrees with a 76 degree dewpoint and no wind.

9 miles, 2:00:57, 13:26 pace, 137 avg bpm, 151 max bpm during mile 7, 165 avg spm, 0.73 m stride length,

  1. 13:07, 131 bpm, 172 spm, 71 sl
  2. 12:52, 136 bpm, 171 spm, 73 sl
  3. 12:52, 137 bpm, 168 spm, 74 sl
  4. 13:00, 141 bpm, 170 spm, 73 sl
  5. 13:16, 140 bpm, 168 spm, 72 sl
  6. 13:34, 140 spm, 170 spm, 70 sl
  7. 13:37, 140 bpm, 163 spm, 73 sl
  8. 14:12, 134 bpm, 154 spm, 74 sl
  9. 14:26, 135 bpm, 151 spm, 74 sl


It almost seems like my cadence is an anaerobic cadence for me, as it takes a lot of energy to try to do 174, then I peter out.  Tomorrow morning is a 9 mile run on 1 day's rest (today).  Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:21 pm

This morning, I asked my self, "Self, why should you continue at 174 cadence when you're going to change it on Monday?  The experiment is over.  You've run 4 weeks at 8 miles, then 3 weeks and 2 days at 9 miles.  So, you've attained some endurance in the past 8 weeks.  Why don't you change to a lower cadence and find out if that's the cadence to begin training."

Mentioning yesterday that I thought that 174 steps per minute was anaerobic in the sphere of cadence really stuck with me.  What's limiting about the 174 is that I don't think that I could've run another mile or two at that cadence, even though my heart rate didn't reflect it with a consistent 160+ mile split.  So the only conclusion I could draw in my pea sized brain is that 174 isn't right for me...now, maybe in the future, but not now.  Something smaller.  Something where I could rotate my hips rearward and get a little lengthening in my stride.  I seemed to be comfortable around 160 or so, when I didn't have the gnome tagging along.  I picked 164 steps per minute.

I have about 7 weeks or so before I start my next training cycle in mid-September.

It was 76 degrees with a 73 degree dewpoint and no wind.

9 miles, 1:55:37, 12:50 pace, 146 average bpm, 158 max bpm during mile 9, 163 avg spm, 0.77 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 12:58, 2nd half pace 12:42, 18,854 steps

  1. 13:09, 139 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
  2. 12:48, 141 bpm, 163 spm, 77 sl
  3. 12:42, 143 bpm, 163 spm, 78 sl
  4. 12:45, 147 bpm, 163 spm, 77 sl
  5. 13:05, 146 bpm, 162 spm, 76 sl
  6. 13:20, 147 bpm, 162 spm, 74 sl
  7. 12:56, 149 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
  8. 12:38, 151 bpm, 163 spm, 78 sl
  9. 12:12, 154 bpm, 163 spm, 81 sl


I think this is the first run where I've busted past the 70's on a split!  And I really concentrated on rotation, too.  After weeks of running at 174, the 164 cadence was comfortable as evidenced by having 7 of the 9 splits at 163.  At 174, I was pleased to have a split at 170 or greater.  And I felt like I could have run another 3 miles, too.  So, I think that I've found a cadence that, at the present time, I can build some better times and longer distances.  Time will tell.  Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Jim Lentz on Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:45 pm

Cool!
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:33 pm

@Jim Lentz wrote:Cool!

Thanks, Jim, but I'm not quite willing to claim victory yet, but it's promising.

***

The past seven weeks have shown that Friday runs are the slowest of the week.  The accumulation of mileage and cadence for that week has tired the body.  So, I didn't expect much out of this run, even though I dropped the cadence from 174 to 164.

It was 75 degrees with a dewpoint of 73 and NO WIND, yet again.

9 miles, 1:53:46, 12:38 pace, 144 avg bpm, 160 max bpm during mile 9, 163 avg spm, 0.78 m avg stride length, 1st half was 12:40 pace, 2nd half was 12:36 pace, 18,566 steps.

  1. 13:16, 133 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
  2. 12:42, 137 bpm, 163 spm, 78 sl
  3. 12:22, 142 bpm, 163 spm, 80 sl
  4. 12:23, 148 bpm, 164 spm, 79 sl
  5. 12:40, 144 bpm, 164 spm, 78 sl
  6. 12:49, 144 bpm, 162 spm, 77 sl
  7. 12:39, 147 bpm, 162 spm, 78 sl
  8. 12:22, 151 bpm, 163 spm, 80 sl
  9. 12:34, 152 bpm, 163 spm, 78 sl


What a nice surprise.  I've never hit the exact cadence (164) that was on the metronome (gnome) and I did it twice.  I had long since never thought that I could hit the exact cadence.  And aside from mile 1, all of the stride lengthes were 78 or higher with two 80's.  Yesterday, I got my first 80.  And of all of the 9 mile runs in the past 4 weeks, this run had the fewest steps.  Also compared to yesterday, my time and pace were faster, HR was up 2 (but I was faster), and stride length was up 1 meter.

It seems the 4th week of either the 8 or 9 mile runs always come out great.  So, next week is a fresh 4 week cycle.  I'm keeping the 164 cadence and work on my stride lengthening.  I'm going to take Jim's suggestion from a few weeks ago and put an easy day in the mix.  Still keeping the 4 day running, I'm going to run 3-10's and a 7.  To start, I will run M-10, T-10, W-7, Th-R, and F-10.  I might swap the distance for Tuesday and Wednesday, but still keeping the same total. 

In three weeks (Aug 14), I have another evaluation of 1.5 miles at 4 different HR, like the one I did on July 3.  The evaluation is done every 6 weeks.

When I rotate my hips rearward, I notice that my upper quads and my gluteal muscles are being worked.  Hopefully, I can continue to lengthen my stride over the next few weeks.  I will begin my training cycle either September 14 or 21.  Have a super weekend and thanks for commenting.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:24 pm

Nice progress, Doug.  One of these days we need to run together as the difference in stride length still puzzles me.  However, I'm betting my legs my be longer (or close to it or at least longer for my body).  It is funny though as you are a much taller person than I.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:34 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:Nice progress, Doug.  One of these days we need to run together as the difference in stride length still puzzles me.  However, I'm betting my legs my be longer (or close to it or at least longer for my body).  It is funny though as you are a much taller person than I.

Thanks, Michele.  It could be the method I'm doing (ChiRunning), doesn't allow for the heel to ever be forward of the knee.  So, my heel never hits the ground in front of me.  Therefore, my lengthening must come from a longer rearward movement.  Hence the need for the rearward hip rotation and looser hips.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Jim Lentz on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:51 am

Loose hips sink ships.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Alex Kubacki on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:49 am

Keep up the great work. Things are progressing well. Great job.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:50 am

@Jim Lentz wrote:Loose hips sink ships.
I'm a boat.  Wink 
@Alex Kubacki wrote:Keep up the great work. Things are progressing well. Great job.

Thanks, Alex.  Time will tell (plus no injuries.)

***

Monday was the first day of the first week of 10 mile runs.  I'm changing it up a bit on this cycle because I don't want to overdo the mileage.  So, instead of 4-10 miles/week, I'm going to do 2-10's, a 5 or 7 mile run, rest on Thursday and 10 on Friday.  This is within 1 mile of the last 4 week's total weekly mileage and it gets me starting to get the body ready for the training cycle where Thursdays are rest days and Fridays are a long run.

However on this first day of 10, the body was not completely compliant.  It was distracted by the GI system.  I may have had a little too much cream on Sunday evening and the system was devoting some of the attention and blood flow to that area, and I wasn't able to shake the distraction.  As a result, I couldn't finish the 10 miles.  It was 80 degrees with a dewpoint of 74 degrees.  The first 80 degree temperature in my 2014 summer of running.

8.04 miles, 1:47:52, 13:25 pace, 142 avg bpm, 178 max HR during mile x, 163 avg spm, 0.74 m avg stride length.

  1. 13:15, 138 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
  2. 13:00, 139 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
  3. 13:04, 140 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
  4. 13:04, 142 bpm, 164 spm, 75 sl
  5. 12:51, 141 bpm, 163 spm, 77 sl
  6. 13:52, 144 bpm, 161 spm, 72 sl
  7. 13:39, 146 bpm, 162 spm, 73 sl
  8. 14:31, 146 bpm, 162 spm, 68 sl


Not only did the run suck, but the watch was screwing up on distance.  I finished the run not at 8.04, but around 8.24 miles.

The best I can do is to just keep plugging away at it.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Nick Morris on Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:12 pm

"The best I can do is to just keep plugging away at it."

You said it best with that quote. Even the best of runners have a bad day. You need to put that in the past and keep moving forward.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:05 pm

@Nick Morris wrote:"The best I can do is to just keep plugging away at it."

You said it best with that quote.  Even the best of runners have a bad day.  You need to put that in the past and keep moving forward.  

Thanks, Nick.  Yup, it's already in the past.  This morning's run was better and faster.  Just a wee bit off of normal.

***

And speaking of this morning's run, it was 79 degrees this morning with a dewpoint of 76.  There actually was a little bit of wind, this morning that lasted about a half mile!  Boy, my shoes were sure squishing at each step.

So another scheduled 10.  The legs were not just itching to get outside.  They seemed a little tired.

10 miles, 2:08:01, 12:48 pace, 142 avg bpm, 157 max HR during mile 10, 162 average spm, 0.77 m avg stride length, 1st & 2nd half paces 12:48.

  1. 13:16, 127 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
  2. 12:32, 134 bpm, 163 spm, 79 sl
  3. 12:32, 136 bpm, 163 spm, 79 sl
  4. 12:39, 141 bpm, 163 spm, 78 sl
  5. 12:49, 141 bpm, 160 spm, 78 sl
  6. 13:15, 142 bpm, 159 spm, 76 sl
  7. 12:52, 144 bpm, 163 spm, 77 sl
  8. 12:48, 148 bpm, 163 spm, 77 sl
  9. 12:44, 149 bpm, 163 spm, 77 sl
  10. 12:34, 154 bpm, 163 spm, 78 sl


I felt like I was dragging some of the way during the middle of the run and the evidence of that is the steps per minute (SPM) during miles 5 and 6 at 160 and 159, respectively.  But for a cadence goal of 164, hitting 8 splits with 163 is really good.  However, no 80 stride length splits.  Oh, well, can't have everything, but only 2 of the splits were less than 77.  Overall, it was a decent run...better than yesterday for sure!

Tomorrow will be a step down distance of 5 to 6.66 miles, Thursday is rest, and Friday is another 10.  Thanks for coming around.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Jim Lentz on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:27 pm

Nice job on getting the 10 done!
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:41 pm

Beet directions in my blog - yum.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Thanks, Michele.  I checked it out.

***

This was to be a short run today of 5-6.66 miles, depending on how much time I had to devote plus how I felt.  I thought I would work on lengthening the stride, since it was shorter distance than usual.

Evidently, my right groin didn't like it and around 1.25 miles, it started barking and at 1.50, it was pissed.  So, I stopped and walked back.  There was a stretch of the return trip where I ran at 164 steps per minute, without trying to lengthen the stride.  The groin did not hurt, but I knew it would if I did lengthen.  I was pleased I could run, but without any speed.

Thursday is a rest day and as I sit here typing, my groin is not overly bad off, just caught a weak point in the muscle.  When I walk, the groin hurts when my right leg begins another stride as I lift my foot at the end of the stride and move my leg forward.  I'll give it a Meloxicam, tonight, and see what 36 hours rest will do for it for Friday's run.

Note to self:  Run a mile, then when warm, do the stride lengthening.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Nick Morris on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:46 pm

Way to be cautious and shut down your run early. As I always say, "Better safe than sorry". In doing so, I think that you caught it early enough that a little bit of rest should fix it right up.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:15 am

@Nick Morris wrote:Way to be cautious and shut down your run early.  As I always say, "Better safe than sorry".  In doing so, I think that you caught it early enough that a little bit of rest should fix it right up.

Thank you, Nick.  That was the plan.  My body and I have an agreement that if I whoa up when something is out of kilter, then the body will heal better.  So far, it's been a good contract.

***
And it's nice that today was a rest day, so I can give the right groin the extra day to heal up enough to let me run 10 in the morning.  I haven't felt any problem since about mid-morning yesterday.  And sitting at my desk most of the afternoon probably helped the repair.

Plus with what I have to do today, I guess it'll be a repeat of yesterday afternoon. 

On the good side though, the Houston Marathon will be having its Kick-Off Party at Memorial Park, this afternoon, unless it rains (50% chance).  People that have signed up can pick up the "In Training 2015" t-shirt, plus everyone else can have a couple of beers, a little food, go by different booths for other race sign ups, catch up with friends, etc.  It's like a mini-Expo without the vendors selling everything for $9.99.  Hopefully, it'll be raining somewhere else.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Nick Morris on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:19 am

Glad to hear that it is already responding well. Hopefully any damage is averted.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Jim Lentz on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:25 pm

Were you up for your run today?
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Mark B on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:29 pm

Catching up a bit here. I'm glad the groin twinges didn't turn into anything worse -- nothing puts a hitch in your giddy-up like a groin pull -- and I think your reminder to yourself is exactly right: Make sure you're completely warmed up before experimenting with a longer stride. Hopefully, that'll prevent a recurrence of Mr. Cranky Crotch.

I've probably asked this before, so sorry if this is redundant. But do you have access to a treadmill with air conditioning, or an indoor track, when the conditions get as swampy as they are right now? I'm in awe of your ability to stick to it, but if there's a way to ease up the strain on the system, it'd be worth a little less awe-inspiring.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:53 pm

@Jim Lentz wrote:Were you up for your run today?

Jim, yes, I was.  The right groin isn't completely healed and I was fortunate that I only wanted to run 10, because the groin was really barking at 9.98 miles.  Any time (I tried twice) I wanted to extend my stride length, my groin would have no part of it.  It was moaning quietly from 0.10 miles to 9.98 miles, except for the two stride length attempts.

So all that peace and quiet from Wednesday afternoon to this morning was not a result of it healing completely, just enough for me to run 10 miles, which I am grateful (in case my right groin can read).  Thanks.

***

It was 73 degrees with 100% humidity.  And that 'cool front' that's traversing the plains made it's way through Houston at 1 a.m. with thunder and lightning.  Then, a second wave of rain went through around 4 a.m. that hit me between miles 3 and 4 for a distance of 1 mile.  I had just arrived at Memorial Park and it was the first time since last October's Half Marathon race to be running in a hard rain.  There was a steady breeze pretty much througout the whole run.  The first wind in a very long time.  I wasn't dripping from sweat, but I did run through all of the puddles.   Very Happy 

10 miles, 2:10:08, 13:00 pace, 145 avg bpm, 156 max bpm during mile X, 163 avg spm, 0.76 m avg stride length, 1st half pace 12:52, 2nd half pace 13:08

  1. 13:38, 132 bpm, 163 spm, 72 sl
  2. 12:56, 139 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
  3. 12:53, 144 bpm, 164 spm, 76 sl
  4. 12:27, 149 bpm, 162 spm, 80 sl
  5. 12:22, 146 bpm, 164 spm, 80 sl
  6. 13:18, 144 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
  7. 13:16, 147 bpm, 163 spm, 74 sl
  8. 12:58, 150 bpm, 163 spm, 76 sl
  9. 13:09, 150 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl
  10. 13:10, 150 bpm, 163 spm, 75 sl


I'm not real happy with the 2nd half of the run, but I am pleased that I pulled off a whole 10 miles.  I'll work on abductor exercises today and throughout the weekend.

I have to baby the groin, I guess.

And Mark, I do have access to a 24 Hour Fitness and their treadmills.  But I'm not quite sure how I can convert ChiRunning cadence to a treadmill.  I've never really liked treadmills.  I think it's because I don't want to get out of kilter and go splat.  And I'm fully acclimatized, now, (overly acclimatized at that), so I think I'll just keep going another 7 weeks until Summer heat is broken.  Hopefully I can get the groin fixed as I run.  I have a Hadd test coming in 2 or 3 weeks, which is dependent on a longer stride length, but I will delay the test if need be.  Thanks for coming back.  I'm humbled that I can get your post count to increase by 1.   Wink
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Nick Morris on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:59 pm

Yes, I would baby it for a week or so. Definitely not try to do any strides.

Glad you were able to get your run in.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Mark B on Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:07 pm

@Nick Morris wrote:Yes, I would baby it for a week or so.  Definitely not try to do any strides.

Glad you were able to get your run in.

I'll echo Nick on this one. Don't push the cranky muscle.

Totally understand the "splat" concern on a treadmill. And if you're adapted, might as well keep at it.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  ounce on Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:43 pm

@Mark B wrote:
@Nick Morris wrote:Yes, I would baby it for a week or so.  Definitely not try to do any strides.

Glad you were able to get your run in.

I'll echo Nick on this one. Don't push the cranky muscle.

Totally understand the "splat" concern on a treadmill. And if you're adapted, might as well keep at it.

I'm glad we have reached a consensus. Very Happy 

I shall baby the thing and do stretches.  Thanks for the comments, y'all.  have a nifty weekend.
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Nick Morris on Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:38 pm

@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@Nick Morris wrote:Yes, I would baby it for a week or so.  Definitely not try to do any strides.

Glad you were able to get your run in.

I'll echo Nick on this one. Don't push the cranky muscle.

Totally understand the "splat" concern on a treadmill. And if you're adapted, might as well keep at it.

I'm glad we have reached a consensus. Very Happy 

I shall baby the thing and do stretches.  Thanks for the comments, y'all.  have a nifty weekend.

You too!! Good lucky with your groin issue and make sure that it is not a growing issue  lol! 
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Re: Fracking the system

Post  Mark B on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:43 pm

@Nick Morris wrote:
@ounce wrote:
@Mark B wrote:
@Nick Morris wrote:Yes, I would baby it for a week or so.  Definitely not try to do any strides.

Glad you were able to get your run in.

I'll echo Nick on this one. Don't push the cranky muscle.

Totally understand the "splat" concern on a treadmill. And if you're adapted, might as well keep at it.

I'm glad we have reached a consensus. Very Happy 

I shall baby the thing and do stretches.  Thanks for the comments, y'all.  have a nifty weekend.

You too!!  Good lucky with your groin issue and make sure that it is not a growing issue  lol! 

So not touching that. Wink
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