Re: Garmin 620! - Who Wants to Buy my 610??

Michele "1L" Keane Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:28 pm

Ok, this worries me as mine just arrrived (last Tuesday but then I left) and I wasn't going to play with it until after Tucson. Guess I'll fire it up and see how it goes.

mountandog Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:47 pm

I think I'm having GPS issues too. Haven't really run repeatable runs too much yet to tell. Just a sense. I also found it disappointing that it lost GPS of SEVEN friggin miles in the middle of the JFK. Here and there, maybe I could forgive, but you telling me it couldn't lock on again for more than an hour??? Also, did a treadmill run today for 5 miles and the accelerometer was off almost 0.5 miles 10% on the short side. Unless the TM was that far off. Will need to experiment some more. But, never had these kinds of issues with my 610.

Schuey Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:26 pm

I think I'm having GPS issues too. Haven't really run repeatable runs too much yet to tell. Just a sense. I also found it disappointing that it lost GPS of SEVEN friggin miles in the middle of the JFK. Here and there, maybe I could forgive, but you telling me it couldn't lock on again for more than an hour??? Also, did a treadmill run today for 5 miles and the accelerometer was off almost 0.5 miles 10% on the short side. Unless the TM was that far off. Will need to experiment some more. But, never had these kinds of issues with my 610.

Well we decided to take ours back to the Garmin story and exchanged them really easy for news. I guess we don't mind much since the story is only 10mins from our house. I took mine back just in case the battery was bad, I'll didn't experience any other issues with the previous watch.

Funny thing is that I with the old one it had me running further on the TM then what the TM said. The new only (now mind you) I haven't linked with statelites or run with outside yet was short by .51 today on the TM. So one watch was logging further and the new one shorter. I will also play around with this and let everyone know.

I just can't imagine they are having this many issues this model. It's not like they were completely re-eventing the wheel. I can really see for a lot of you how this can really tick you off since you would have to mail your watch in etc. etc..

I will have to go on to say that I have been very happy with mine and other then maybe having a battery issue the watch has been running great. I also read up that having bluetooth, WiFi, extended blacklight could shorten the the time between chargers. All of the above may have explained my issues with the watch dying at JFK. Again will continue to investigate.

Jerry Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:57 pm

Glad to hear so many issues

Tim C Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:08 pm

Strange. I've had a 610 for a while and on my regular runs, the mile beeps are within 5 or 10' of where they always are, every single run. a couple of weeks ago my watch quit charging so I took it back to REI and they handed me a brand spanking new 610, no questions asked. Only done 4 or 5 runs since but I've noticed it's beeping at me well long or short of where it usually does, by maybe 100' or more. I had a 305 and then the 610 and the GPS distances have been amazingly consistent - until now.

Will do a few more runs and see how it shakes out.

Gobbles Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:00 pm

Lots of interesting complaints on the Garmin Forum:

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?65707-GPS-inaccuracies

Nick Morris Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:59 am

Kind of glad that I didn't jump on this quite yet...

mountandog Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:28 am

Gobbles wrote:Lots of interesting complaints on the Garmin Forum:

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?65707-GPS-inaccuracies

yup - I was reading thru these yesterday. Seems like lots of issues. I've suffered some of the same GPS issues. I'm hoping its a software issue that can be fixed. If not...............

Michele "1L" Keane Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:48 pm

Hmm, mine seems to be ok, so far. I ran Tucson with both my 610 and 620 and they were very close with regards to all data points (mile splits, mile time and HR). I'm going to keep watching the data and we will see.

Schuey Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:40 pm

Update, alright no issues with the new Garmin 620 I picked up the other day at the Garmin Store.

GPS distance is actually better then what it was before and the tracking looks perfect

Wifi download is about 2 seconds

Bluetooth download take about minute

Since I went outside for a run and linked GPS outside the distance on my treadmill is now spot on.

Very happy with my new Garmin 620!!! I'm more than happy that I bought it!

Michele "1L" Keane Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:21 pm

I'm not having any issues with mine either. Wore it today in the snow (2" during our run) and it appeared spot on GPS-wise and correlated with everyone else's GPS watches for distance. I'm pretty pleased so far.

ounce Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:41 am

How is the 620 doing, these days? I'm in the market for a watch.

Schuey Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:18 pm

ounce wrote:How is the 620 doing, these days? I'm in the market for a watch.

Lisa and I both love ours no big problems. The only thing that I have noticed and Dave-O has too, is that when on a TM running in lower pace range it tracks the correct mileage distance, as I speed up the non-statlite distance tracking doesn't keep up and the miles are off compared to the TM. To me this isn't that back of concern, I just hit the lap button at every mile. I have noticed that when I do that my mileage splits can be in the range from .89 to .98. Again really not a big deal to me.

I like it and like anything I only use it as tool and don't concern myself to much with the distance and pass be 100% exact. Especially since I mostly run for time anyways.

Michele "1L" Keane Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:25 pm

I've had some minor issues and one big one in that I can't connect to my WIFI network at home. Not really an issue as I can just connect it to the computer, just a pain. I had some charging issues, but I cleaned the contacts and all was/is fine. I cannot accurately measure distance on the indoor track without the foot pod, but I had one from before, so I've been using it. I also cannot track accurate mileage and/or time on the treadmill, but that is ok since it (the TM) keeps track and like Schuey said, I can hit the lap button. I have not really bothered Garmin yet with the issues and if they become a nuisance I will indeed.

It does fine outdoors and even better than some other older watches with accuracy. I ran a half marathon and it measured the distance as 13.14 - I guess I was just a good tangent runner - lol.

mountandog Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:36 pm

I have the same issues. TM inacurracy - more than 1/2 a mile on 10 mile runs w/o footpod. With the footpod its better but still off a bit. I just manually adjust the data when I upload. Also had download issues as well and had to reinstall the software.

I find the ground contact time and oscillation data interesting but useless. No idea how to use it yet.

The VO2Max shows me in the 66-67 range which projects race times well below my current PRs. Wish I could run that fast, so I suspect this data is off quite a bit as well.

For outdoor running, gps, etc. it works just fine. There are some little things I like that have been cleaned up since the 610 like easier to read at times, the pace management when setting up workouts. Things like that.

One big miss for me though is the lack of a GPS compass or return to start. It is a function I really relied on when I ran when travelling. Especially in foreign countries with winding roads. Even if I had to run more miles, eventually I got home. I hope they reconsider updating the software with this funtction. Am actually considering using my old faulty 610 when I go on trip to unfamiliar places just to make sure I get back to the hotel.

Gobbles Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:25 pm

Interesting, I'm glad you guys have had good luck with your 620s.

I've read that many people had the same issues I did.

My Wife's 220 works great.

But since I'm a glutton for punishment, I preordered the Fenix2.
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/02/garmin-fenix2-multisport-triathlon.html

ounce Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:39 am

Gobbles wrote:Interesting, I'm glad you guys have had good luck with your 620s.

I've read that many people had the same issues I did.

My Wife's 220 works great.

But since I'm a glutton for punishment, I preordered the Fenix2.
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/02/garmin-fenix2-multisport-triathlon.html

yeah, if I was going to spend the money, I would opt for the Fenix2, even though I wouldn't use half of the features.

Does any one have any ideas on where to get a 220 for more than 10% off full retail?

Schuey Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:10 pm

mountandog wrote:I have the same issues. TM inacurracy - more than 1/2 a mile on 10 mile runs w/o footpod. With the footpod its better but still off a bit. I just manually adjust the data when I upload. Also had download issues as well and had to reinstall the software.

I find the ground contact time and oscillation data interesting but useless. No idea how to use it yet.

The release of Garmin’s newest GPS running watch, the Forerunner 620, introduces the running community to two new features not available on any other GPS watch: ground contact and vertical oscillation. Garmin describes these as functions created to help runners improve their running form.
Ground contact tracks how much time your foot touches the ground each stride. From Garmin's website: "Most running ground contact times are between 160 — 300 milliseconds. Elite runners typically spend under 200-milliseconds in contact with the ground each step."
Vertical oscillation measures the amount of “bounce” – i.e. vertical up and down movement – generated while running. The Forerunner 620 measures “bounce” by tracking the number of centimeters your torso moves from a fixed point during each stride. According to Garmin, elite runners oscillate less, although they don’t make it clear how much less.
(It should also be noted that both of these features require HRM-Run, the new heart rate monitor Garmin developed.)
While Garmin has proudly announced these features as part of the overall Forerunner 620 package – there is little information about how to actually use these metrics while training.
Which raises the question: are these features useful to the everyday runner?
Ground Contact
According to James, ground contact is just another way of measuring running cadence.
“Contact time and cadence are inextricably linked, and essentially the same thing, expressed in differing ways. Contact time decreases as cadence increases, and vice versa.”
In essence, Garmin has simply provided a secondary metric to track cadence (which the Forerunner 620 measures as well). Cadence increases --> Ground contact time decreases.
Vertical Oscillation
At its core, tracking vertical oscillation is really about improving running efficiency by reducing wasted energy. But just how much energy might be lost?
James explains:
“A runner who runs a 3:30:00 marathon with an average cadence of 168 strides per minute makes 35,280 strides. If each of these strides contains 1 inch excessive vertical oscillation (bounce), the runner has to spend excessive and unnecessary effort in 'bouncing' well over half a mile (in total) vertically during the race!”
Clearly, it’s beneficially to try to reduce “bounce” as much as possible. But according to James, the running stride itself will always include some bounce. Fortunately, increasing cadence will have significant benefits in reducing bounce to a more appropriate level.
Conclusion
Both ground contact and vertical oscillation are beneficial but only as secondary metrics to track running cadence. So while they are not groundbreaking features, they do provide useful information.
Knowing this, the proper way to use these metrics while training is to measure current cadence, ground contact, and vertical oscillation, then slowly work on increasing cadence. Decreases in ground contact time and vertical oscillation should follow.
Once you’ve increased cadence to an appropriate level, track these metrics to stay on target and spot any inconsistent trends. A change in any of these could signal degradation in running form and/or other potential issues that should be investigated.

mountandog Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:56 pm

interesting Shuey. So if I'm happy with my cadence 178-182 most of the time, how do I improve my contact time? What are the elites cadence? I thought in the same range, but I'm definitely above 200ms per foot strike, and they are lower. What gives? I assume power and push off, but there's more to these metrics than meet the eye.

Tim C Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:17 pm

So my 610 took a dump today and I took it back to REI. They no longer stock it so they gave me 100% of my money back. Decided to research a bit before making a decision on a new watch and am intrigued by the 220. It appears to do everything the 620 does that I'm interested in for a lot less money.

The 620 looks nice but is it really worth the extra $$$ vs the 220?

Penelope Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:48 pm

I have the 220 and I really like it. When I compared the 2, I thought the 220 was a better deal. So far so good.

ounce Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:34 pm

Penelope wrote:I have the 220 and I really like it. When I compared the 2, I thought the 220 was a better deal. So far so good.

+1, although I miss some of the features that were on my FR305 like Last Lap Time and Last Lap HR. There are only about 15 settings, compared to the 35 million on the 305 Wink

. It does find the satellite a lot faster than the 305 ever did.

Since they're still bringing full retail, I got mine from the store that backs DC Rainmaker's blog and got 10% off.

Michele "1L" Keane Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:13 pm

I would have bought the 220 if I had bought it for myself, but since it was a gift, the 620 was purchased for me.

Nick Morris Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:41 pm

Michele \"1L" Keane wrote:I would have bought the 220 if I had bought it for myself, but since it was a gift, the 620 was purchased for me.

How is your 620 now? Have they updated the software? Does it still lose signal? Just wondering, because I knew there were issues when it first came out.

Michele "1L" Keane Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:02 pm

I'm good and have had no issues since the very beginning. I think Stephen (Gobbles) sent his back, but after the initial woes, it has been all good. Updates easy, etc.

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