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Desire Nothing

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Chris M
mul21
Nick Morris
John Kilpatrick
Michele "1L" Keane
nkrichards
Dave-O
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Mark B
Mike MacLellan
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Post  Mike MacLellan Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:38 pm

Back to being Zen...  Or something like it.  At least, back to trying.

Running lately has been a relatively easy uphill battle... until last week.  For those of you not following along at home, I got hit with a triple-whammy of complete lower body soreness, a left ITB/knee issue, and a right glute issue.  All at the same time.  

Given my "race" history since Orange County, which was nearly 3 years ago, my frustration was probably on an appropriate level.  Here I was, finally motivated and ready to get back to long-ass runs, ready to give it my all to train for the one marathon goal left on my list - sub-3 - and the week before my training "officially" began, I got sidelined with that shit.  

Then on Sunday, Aileen, who's been dragged along since the beginning, said, "You know, you're a lot happier when you're cycling than when you're running."  Which is simultaneously true and kind of stupid.  Why is it that while doing the thing I love most, I'm not completely happy?  It didn't take much more than a second for the answer to come to me: because I care too much.  

Over the summer, I was working a job in which the speaker said, "The source of all stress is expectation."  Of course, I've known this for a long time - I'm nothing if not overly analytic.  Wasn't it me who told Aileen when we first met that the key to my calm demeanor was summed up simply by two words: "Desire Nothing"?  Yet here I am, putting so much importance on a time that, in the grand scheme of things, is insignificant.  

Sure, it's great to see a training cycle come together and result in a perfectly executed race.  But that doesn't mean I have to be miserable, stressed, or devastated if things go awry.  I know I'm capable.  I know I have up to a decade of improvement ahead of me. 

Besides, it's not the race or the result that keeps me coming back to my shoes and the same familiar roads every day.  

It's those moments, sometimes just a second long, sometimes three hours, when everything falls into place.  When my body goes into autopilot, when I can't even feel my feet touching the ground because everything is moving so smoothly, so in sync, I forget I even have legs; when my gaze is softened beyond the immediate horizon, my focus on nothing but breathing, wind on my face, arms rocking gently next to my hips; when the watch on my wrist and the schedule I'm following are the least of my concerns; when I forget absolutely everything, think of nothing, need nothing, desire nothing; when I just - am.  

Left, right, left, right, left, right, ad infinitum.
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Desire Nothing Empty Re: Desire Nothing

Post  Mark B Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:17 pm

Well said, Mike. Good luck letting go. It's not easy, but it's important.
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Post  ounce Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:58 pm

Yeah, getting in the zone is a bonus and should be more frequent.

I'm sure there's a metaphor in there, somewhere, but maybe not.  scratch jocolor
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Post  Dave-O Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:21 pm

I've had my share of disappointing races, and like you, am still chasing my ultimate marathon goal.  After one disappointing race, my good friend Chris McKee made a comment I'll never forget -- If the worst thing we have going on in our lives is a poor race result, things are going great. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting something badly enough that it causes stress. Frankly, that's part of the fun, in my opinion. You just need to keep it all in perspective.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:45 pm

Mark - Yeah, I'm sure I'll still be hunting for times and paces and miles...  But hopefully it'll all be kept in perspective.  Hey, I have two legs that can carry me distances most people gawk at.  

Oz - I thought I left the metaphors behind... Wink

Dave - This is a good counterpoint.  And probably the reason why I won't ever fully let go of some external motivator.

---

A little more non-planning...  

I've already signed up for Modesto on March 23, so there's no going back.  I've been trying to think of a clever alternative to "goals," but I haven't come up with much.  So, loose goals for the race:

A - sub-3.  Yeah, it's still there.  But no longer is it the primary focus.  More on that in a second.
B - new PR.  Because it's always nice to do something a little better than before.
C - complete a training cycle without debilitating injury, toe the line healthy and excited, and love every second of the race.

More on shifting focus.  This has always been a thought in mind, but it's coming into bright, glaring clarity as I go through this unexpected cutback week.  When I started training for OC, my mindset was that of "I'm going to improve myself to become the best runner I possibly can."  It wasn't "I'm going to run a BQ."  Hell, that goal was pushed onto me by Chris.  I simply wanted to fix any biomechanical issues or imbalances, treat my body well, and push it (softly) to new places.  And it's those steps that I've neglected ever since.

I haven't done any consistent core or auxiliary leg work in the last few training cycles.  Finished a run?  Eh, I'm too tired/busy/unmotivated to spend another 10 minutes cooling down with leg raises, planks, whatever.  Sometimes, I'd even neglect to stretch.  Now, mind you, for OC I was able to dedicate a huge amount of time to my running.  Between the run itself, workouts, stretching, a daily nap, and preparing nutritious meals, we're probably averaging 6hr/day.  Of course, I can't do that now.  But I can still use my time a little more productively when I'm on the couch watching TV.  

So that's the general plan, if there is one.  Hone my body into a running machine once again.  Get to the point where miles slip by effortlessly, where everything feels smooth and balanced, and be consistent with the routine.  Consistency, we all know, is the key to a good training cycle.  So it's time to instill some.

More specifically, I'm using this and next week to get back up to around 40mpw, a 20% drop from before I was sidelined a bit.  Then I'll get up to 60mpw as fast and safely as possible, truly listening to my body and responding appropriately, before starting to hone in on race day.  If all goes well, I should still have all of January and February to build up that tempo endurance and sharpen my marathon pace.  If not, I'll admit it, shift my goals to something more reasonable, and maintain focus on keeping my body healthy and functional.  

---

This week so far:

M - 3mi recovery
T - 5mi recovery
W - 5mi recovery
Th - planned 3mi recovery, been feeling great, so 4mi recovery.  

I'm planning a 5mi/7mi weekend, but may do a 5/8 if everything still feels good.  That'd only be 30mi, so I feel safe pushing it there.
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Desire Nothing Empty Re: Desire Nothing

Post  ounce Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:34 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:  I simply wanted to fix any biomechanical issues or imbalances,
As far as a non-plan goes, I applaud it.  I would love to fix my bio-mechanical issues and imbalances.  I dislike stretching, but might have to do it anyway.
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Desire Nothing Empty Re: Desire Nothing

Post  Mark B Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:24 pm

Your quest reminds me a little of my "road to nowhere" approach last year. There's something to be said for making the racing calendar a secondary consideration (well, after Modesto, anyway), and by building slowly until you're confident that a short peak effort can get you ready for whatever big event might be two months away.

That approach might not work if you're strongly goal-motivated, but if you're not... it could work.
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Post  nkrichards Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:08 am

I needed a goal race to get back on track when I was struggling but I picked a race that was far enough out on the calendar that I had time to build up slowly and carefully...and I added core/strength work to my schedule.  It's not fun but I think it's key!
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Post  Mike MacLellan Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:00 pm

A little update on life and running.

Still improving each day.  It feels impossible that just a week ago I was laid up and unable to run even a mile.  Then again, a week before that, it seemed impossible that I'd be sidelined.  Such is running.  

Drove down to the parents' place with Aileen Thursday afternoon/night.  Friday was spent doing not much, though Aileen had a 12-miler so her weekend would be light.  Her 20 last week went really well, for those who asked.  She's got one more peak week then taper and race time! 

I had my national certification test on Saturday.  It felt mostly easy, and I'm 85% confident I passed it.  It really just depends on how they grade/rate it.  If it's similar to the test I've already passed, then I think I'm in very good shape.  Once I had that weight off my shoulders, it finally felt like vacation.  Aileen's in Vegas, so I have time to myself with zero responsibilities.  Went out for 5 easy miles around the neighborhood and spent the rest of the day slowing finishing off beers and eating a lot. What a Face

I mapped out a 7.5mi route for today - up the hill to some old trails, then down and through the regional park and back up to the house.  I didn't take into account that staying on the trail would add a bit of distance as it follows a contour line (if you were looking at a map) instead of taking the direct route from A-B.  So I got 8mi in, the first 2 with my dad, all of them relaxed, slow, and extremely enjoyable.  I seriously miss those trails, and I'm sad I won't get to run on them again for a month.  But I'm feeling motivated to get back up to Auburn and revisit some old "friends" in the next couple weeks.  

Got an easy 3 on the docket tomorrow.  It's getting hard to hold back on the distance, particularly here where there are so many streets I'd love to revisit.  Patience patience patience.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:45 pm

It looks like I'm paying quite a bit for my Sunday funday.  Every run since has been sore, and the two back in Sacramento have sucked.  I'm frustrated.  Seriously, if I can't even do an 8mi trail run without 3 days of discomfort, I'm starting to lose interest in this whole concept of "training."  I'd rather just enjoy my running.  Meh.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:27 pm

Question: is it possible that you are dehydrated?  I know there is a lot of beer in the diet, but what about water and electrolytes?  i just wonder because I am often sore when I don't drink enough (of the stuff we need to drink for running).  You are just too young to suffer so much, and well, maybe you need to look at that diet too.  Just being Mom.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:35 pm

Michele - Believe it or not, not very much beer Wink  Or alcohol lately, at least not since a couple weeks ago.  Definitely not dehydration, though I think you're onto something with the nutrition.  I've been trying to figure out if anything's lacking... but I don't think so.  

Larger than nutrition, I'm 100% sure the problem is on the recovery side.  Whether it's sleep or fuel, I'm not sure, but it's one of those.  Still meh.
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Post  John Kilpatrick Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:21 am

It's not for everyone and I wouldn't even recommend it to anyone else, but I kept getting hurt and subsequently frustrated - basically this time around I ditched any real plan and just ran what I thought I wanted to when I thought I wanted to do it.  I had a couple of guidelines, but really just did what I felt like doing.  My marathon time may of been better following a more aggressive plan, but by the time I got to the race, I at least had the healthy and excited thing going for me and definitely enjoyed racing again.  And, the thought strikes me often during training that the journey is better than the destination (race day) anyway - I love those moments that you describe.  I would trade great training days (where I feel great) but a meh race anyday for feeling meh all of the time during training but putting up great numbers.  But that's just me.  Hang in there - you have a ton of talent and, like you said, a lot of time to develop it.

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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:53 am

Mike MacLellan wrote:Michele - Believe it or not, not very much beer Wink  Or alcohol lately, at least not since a couple weeks ago.  Definitely not dehydration, though I think you're onto something with the nutrition.  I've been trying to figure out if anything's lacking... but I don't think so.  

Larger than nutrition, I'm 100% sure the problem is on the recovery side.  Whether it's sleep or fuel, I'm not sure, but it's one of those.  Still meh.
 Maybe some supplements will help as well. Things like calcium,magnesium, and zinc to name a few. I doubt that I am anymore talented, and I just don't remember experiencing anything near the same at your age and I ran mega miles, raced a lot, and pretty much trained at a 7 min pace.  I guess it could be genes, but you are not hurting cycling, right?
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Post  Nick Morris Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:12 am

I am glad that you are starting to feel better after a "minor" setback.  It looks like you are already tinkering with things and I am confident that you will find a cause and a solution.  

In regards to running, it is nice to set goals and have something to strive for.  I spent four years trying to attain my latest goal.  It took a lot of hard work and some disappointments, but I believe that I am a stronger person and runner for it.  What I am saying is, just go out and put in the work.  You may have your ups and downs along the way. Enjoy the ups and don't be discouraged with the downs. Stick with it and eventually the hard work will pay off.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:28 pm

Michele - Could be.  I don't know.

---

Went out for a ride today to let the legs recover from pounding.  Dropped the chain 4mi in and it wrapped itself into my chainring.  By the time I got it unjammed (10min later), it was bent.  Sweet.
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Post  Mark B Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:59 pm

Here's one possibility for your funk that I haven't seen discussed.

If I remember correctly, you've built a pretty incredible aerobic system as you put running to the side in favor of cycling. Yes?

While all that cycling was great for your overall fitness, it didn't provide any opportunity for your ligaments, tendons and muscle to habituate themselves to the impact of running -- especially fast running. You may be in one of those rare situations to where your engine is too powerful for the rest of your body. I remember reading how Hal (yes, Hal) had a problem coming out of a winter of cross-country skiing, being in fabulous shape, only to practically kill himself when he tried to run at the intensity he was XC skiing. He had to step back and let his legs adapt more gradually to the increased impact of running.

You may want to try that for a couple of weeks. Run only recovery-level runs. Low intensity, relatively short distance. See if it helps.

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Post  Mike MacLellan Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:06 pm

Mark - I think you're actually onto something, as this was my initial suspicion.  My legs have ALWAYS fallen behind my system as a whole, but it definitely seems exaggerated this time around.  I do wonder, though, why it took ~6 weeks of serious training for it to hit me.  

Any way you slice it - nutrition, sleep, adaptation - this is a long exercise in patience, and it's starting to suck when nothing is going right.  Meh.
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Post  mul21 Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:02 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:Mark - I think you're actually onto something, as this was my initial suspicion.  My legs have ALWAYS fallen behind my system as a whole, but it definitely seems exaggerated this time around.  I do wonder, though, why it took ~6 weeks of serious training for it to hit me.  

Any way you slice it - nutrition, sleep, adaptation - this is a long exercise in patience, and it's starting to suck when nothing is going right.  Meh.
Because even though you're young and healthy, your body couldn't keep up with repairing the "damage" from the pounding it was taking.  It's kind of the step back week concept.  You probably won't notice it in the 3rd or 4th week if you don't take one, but maybe week 6 or 8 or 10 and you hit a wall.  This was a really hard concept for me to grasp.
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Post  Mark B Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:36 pm

mul21 wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:Mark - I think you're actually onto something, as this was my initial suspicion.  My legs have ALWAYS fallen behind my system as a whole, but it definitely seems exaggerated this time around.  I do wonder, though, why it took ~6 weeks of serious training for it to hit me.  

Any way you slice it - nutrition, sleep, adaptation - this is a long exercise in patience, and it's starting to suck when nothing is going right.  Meh.
Because even though you're young and healthy, your body couldn't keep up with repairing the "damage" from the pounding it was taking.  It's kind of the step back week concept.  You probably won't notice it in the 3rd or 4th week if you don't take one, but maybe week 6 or 8 or 10 and you hit a wall.  This was a really hard concept for me to grasp.
+1

I'd like to say that I've learned that lesson the hard way, but I'm not sure I've actually learned it yet...

One other tip: Reset your expectations to your body, not your ego, so things DO go right.
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Post  John Kilpatrick Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:27 pm

mul21 wrote:
Mike MacLellan wrote:Mark - I think you're actually onto something, as this was my initial suspicion.  My legs have ALWAYS fallen behind my system as a whole, but it definitely seems exaggerated this time around.  I do wonder, though, why it took ~6 weeks of serious training for it to hit me.  

Any way you slice it - nutrition, sleep, adaptation - this is a long exercise in patience, and it's starting to suck when nothing is going right.  Meh.
Because even though you're young and healthy, your body couldn't keep up with repairing the "damage" from the pounding it was taking.  It's kind of the step back week concept.  You probably won't notice it in the 3rd or 4th week if you don't take one, but maybe week 6 or 8 or 10 and you hit a wall.  This was a really hard concept for me to grasp.
Good points both.  Delayed reaction seems plausible.  Guilty as well.  I'm sure it all does suck right now, but it won't last.  You'll get through.

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Post  Mike MacLellan Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:43 pm

Jim - B...b...but I take cutback weeks!  Maybe just not enough.  

Despite yesterday sucking, I find that I'm not sure at all today.  Nor was I last night.  My body is confusing.
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Post  Chris M Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:53 pm

As Dave and you noted up above, I'm of the opinion that there's a good thing to have with respect to running and goals and that's "stressed but in perspective".   I'll never buy for myself into the concept of just running to run, getting fit as the goal unto itself and enjoying the experience completely outside of times/races/paces.  That's not for me.  Instead, I actually think its healthy for me to try and push expectations for myself and have goals, even tough stretch goals, that I want to strive for and I do beat myself up a bit about falling short of those.  The striving and trying and failing in the end IS what draws me to running.   But......all in perspective.   My life is not about running in the slightest and like Dave said, my thought has always been that you are truly lucky and living without major problems if race training is looming as something important and worrisome in your life.   This is all false stress and done as a game.  It matters in the end not at all whether I break under 3:00 or not in the marathon or ever set another PR in a race - that's not real life or a job for me, thank god, so its just a fun game that I work hard at because I prefer that to taking the approach of it simply being a leisure activity like reading or watching TV.   Everyone has their own independent relationship and interaction with this running thing but "Desire Nothing" as a mantra or approach will never work for me.   Its the striving for goals that I artificially put out there for myself and goals that don't matter in the big picture of life but I make important to me in this hobby that keep me going.  You mention up above that I pushed you to consider going for a BQ and while that made me smile, maybe its too much of me pushing my own agenda (times matter; goals are important) onto you and you have a different modus operandi for running (Zen, not being motivated by times or races).   So go find your own bliss, buddy, and do what makes YOU happy!!  "If you follow your bliss, you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Wherever you are—if you are following your bliss, you are enjoying that refreshment, that life within you, all the time" J. Campbell
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Post  Mike MacLellan Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:22 pm

Life stuff first:

I finished my term on our professional organization's board last night.  So.  Relieved.  Also, I got 3 of my friends elected.  Yep.  There was socializing and celebrating to be had, so I didn't get to bed until well after 1am.  Don't worry, I only had 3 drinks the entire night.  

---

A couple months ago, I decided I wasn't going to run with Aileen anymore.  She was "too slow" for me.  ...What?

Joined her for 6 of her 8 miles today.  Mind you, we didn't get up until like 10:30 or something, so we started our "morning" run around 12:30 or 1.  But at a cool 62 degrees and light breeze, it was perfect running weather.

So, 6 easy, enjoyable miles for me today.  A resident cyclist on the ARBT - seriously, I see this guy EVERY TIME I RUN OR RIDE ON THE TRAIL - had a cowbell and cheered us on both times we passed him.  He told me I'd better try and keep up with Aileen.  Funny, friendly dude.

Running is weird.  Just happy it worked in my favor today.
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Post  Mark B Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:36 pm

Mike MacLellan wrote:Life stuff first:

I finished my term on our professional organization's board last night.  So.  Relieved.  Also, I got 3 of my friends elected.  Yep.  There was socializing and celebrating to be had, so I didn't get to bed until well after 1am.  Don't worry, I only had 3 drinks the entire night.  

---

A couple months ago, I decided I wasn't going to run with Aileen anymore.  She was "too slow" for me.  ...What?

Joined her for 6 of her 8 miles today.  Mind you, we didn't get up until like 10:30 or something, so we started our "morning" run around 12:30 or 1.  But at a cool 62 degrees and light breeze, it was perfect running weather.

So, 6 easy, enjoyable miles for me today.  A resident cyclist on the ARBT - seriously, I see this guy EVERY TIME I RUN OR RIDE ON THE TRAIL - had a cowbell and cheered us on both times we passed him.  He told me I'd better try and keep up with Aileen.  Funny, friendly dude.

Running is weird.  Just happy it worked in my favor today.
Congrats on the professional-political front, and good that you and Aileen had a good run. More cowbell!
Mark B
Mark B
Needs A Life
Needs A Life

Posts : 8139
Points : 19816
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 60
Location : Vancouver, Wash.

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