Yasso and the Sub-3
+11
Dave-O
Ben Z
Jerry
Seth Harrison
mul21
fostever
T Miller
Nick Morris
Admin
Diego
ssilvert
15 posters
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Yasso and the Sub-3
I wish I had time to keep a blog about my quest for a Sub-3 marathon. A lot of folks seemed interested last time I mentioned it. I'm in my last week before the taper. This week includes 10 x 800, tempo, 12 miles at race pace, and 20 miles with last 5 at race pace. Total miles this week should be 76.
In the interest of reporting on a big milestone, here is my log entry for the final Yasso 800's I did yesterday:
Henry County High Track
regular shorts, thick long sleeve tech shirt, gloves, (sock cap during wup/cdn only)
Yasso 10 x 800. Felt good. I had lots left at the end. Only mistake was on #3 where I forgot to check my 600 split and I thought I had more time banked than I really did.
Needed to average 2:59. Actual average was 2:57.4.
Splits:
2:58
2:58
3:00
2:59
2:58
2:58
2:55
2:58
2:56
2:54
Weather:
11:15 AM 44.6 °F 42.2 °F 21.2 °F 39% 30.11 in 10.0 mi East 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
11:35 AM 44.6 °F 42.2 °F 17.6 °F 34% 30.12 in 10.0 mi NE 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
11:55 AM 44.6 °F 43.1 °F 17.6 °F 34% 30.12 in 10.0 mi NE 3.5 mph - N/A Clear
12:15 PM 48.2 °F - 17.6 °F 30% 30.11 in 10.0 mi Calm Calm - N/A Clear
12:35 PM 48.2 °F - 12.2 °F 24% 30.11 in 10.0 mi Calm Calm - N/A Clear
Total of 12.06 miles in 1:28:42
In the interest of reporting on a big milestone, here is my log entry for the final Yasso 800's I did yesterday:
Henry County High Track
regular shorts, thick long sleeve tech shirt, gloves, (sock cap during wup/cdn only)
Yasso 10 x 800. Felt good. I had lots left at the end. Only mistake was on #3 where I forgot to check my 600 split and I thought I had more time banked than I really did.
Needed to average 2:59. Actual average was 2:57.4.
Splits:
2:58
2:58
3:00
2:59
2:58
2:58
2:55
2:58
2:56
2:54
Weather:
11:15 AM 44.6 °F 42.2 °F 21.2 °F 39% 30.11 in 10.0 mi East 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
11:35 AM 44.6 °F 42.2 °F 17.6 °F 34% 30.12 in 10.0 mi NE 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
11:55 AM 44.6 °F 43.1 °F 17.6 °F 34% 30.12 in 10.0 mi NE 3.5 mph - N/A Clear
12:15 PM 48.2 °F - 17.6 °F 30% 30.11 in 10.0 mi Calm Calm - N/A Clear
12:35 PM 48.2 °F - 12.2 °F 24% 30.11 in 10.0 mi Calm Calm - N/A Clear
Total of 12.06 miles in 1:28:42
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Nice work Stan. sub-3 is in range. I like the times for the last few repeats. Good luck!!!
For your next race, try this one: Run the same pace and cut the jog interval down to 90-100 seconds.
For your next race, try this one: Run the same pace and cut the jog interval down to 90-100 seconds.
Diego- Regular
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
I should have mentioned that. An interval workout doesn't mean much if you don't specify the interval!Diego wrote:Nice work Stan. sub-3 is in range. I like the times for the last few repeats. Good luck!!!
For your next race, try this one: Run the same pace and cut the jog interval down to 90-100 seconds.
I do a 400 jog in between. Not sure if that is standard for Yasso's, but it is what I did the last time I followed this modified Hal Higdon Advanced II plan. So the intervals end up being around 2:30. This workout is tough enough already. 90-100 seconds would be extra-tough!
Stan
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Looks good, Stan. It's great to see you've been putting in the miles. Those 800s are a good confidence boost to take you into the taper. Are doing the traditional 3 week?
Admin- Admin
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Yes, same taper with a few extra miles thrown in. Hal's taper worked for me before, so I'm doing it again.Mr MattM wrote:Looks good, Stan. It's great to see you've been putting in the miles. Those 800s are a good confidence boost to take you into the taper. Are doing the traditional 3 week?
Stan
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Definitely looks like everything is coming together and the ellusive sub-3 is there for the taking!!
Nick Morris- Talking To Myself
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
It looks like you're primed and ready to run that sub 3. Now the only things that remain are of course the remainder of your peak week runs, taper, race day weather and execution. Stay focused on the things that you can control and hope for the best for the others. Which race are you targeting? I hope the weather cooperates and I wish you the best.
T Miller- Regular
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
T Miller wrote:It looks like you're primed and ready to run that sub 3. Now the only things that remain are of course the remainder of your peak week runs, taper, race day weather and execution. Stay focused on the things that you can control and hope for the best for the others. Which race are you targeting? I hope the weather cooperates and I wish you the best.
Snicker's Albany Marathon in Albany, GA
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Here's a couple good articles that asserts the 800 repeats may not be the best selection for marathon training and may be off a bit as a predictor. http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/yasso-800s/ and http://www.hillrunner.com/articles/article.php/yasso_800s
fostever- Explaining To Spouse
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Funny. I actually came across that first article yesterday. First, correlation vs. causation arguments are usually pretty silly when you think about them. There is no provable causation between smoking and cancer. Does that stop us from concluding that smoking is bad for your health?
He says he thinks Yasso's are off by about five minutes because most people don't have the aerobic base to cash in on the base speed that the Yasso's display. That may be a good argument, but it probably doesn't apply to me because I have been running distance for almost 10 years now. And I spent the whole summer base-building with several weeks in the 70's and 80's.
That author argues that Yasso 800's are not a good marathon workout because it is a VO2 max workout. I disagree. Maybe traditional Yasso 800's are run all out. But I don't do them all out. If you look at my splits, I was sandbagging most of the time. I wanted to hold back and make sure I could finish strong. 10 x 800 is more mentally tough that physically tough. It's a long workout that takes a lot of concentration. That by itself is good for marathon training.
Even the author admits that Yasso 800's do some physiological good for a marathon. He just says that there are better workouts you should be doing. Well, I'm doing the ones he suggests. Like this author, Hal is big on marathon pace workouts. I believe in them too. Friday I will do 12 miles at pace. The next day, I'll do 20 miles with the last 5 at pace. That last peak week workout is the one that will really tell me if I'm ready. Five miles at pace on super-tired legs are just what this author has ordered.
I'll be ready.
Stan
He says he thinks Yasso's are off by about five minutes because most people don't have the aerobic base to cash in on the base speed that the Yasso's display. That may be a good argument, but it probably doesn't apply to me because I have been running distance for almost 10 years now. And I spent the whole summer base-building with several weeks in the 70's and 80's.
That author argues that Yasso 800's are not a good marathon workout because it is a VO2 max workout. I disagree. Maybe traditional Yasso 800's are run all out. But I don't do them all out. If you look at my splits, I was sandbagging most of the time. I wanted to hold back and make sure I could finish strong. 10 x 800 is more mentally tough that physically tough. It's a long workout that takes a lot of concentration. That by itself is good for marathon training.
Even the author admits that Yasso 800's do some physiological good for a marathon. He just says that there are better workouts you should be doing. Well, I'm doing the ones he suggests. Like this author, Hal is big on marathon pace workouts. I believe in them too. Friday I will do 12 miles at pace. The next day, I'll do 20 miles with the last 5 at pace. That last peak week workout is the one that will really tell me if I'm ready. Five miles at pace on super-tired legs are just what this author has ordered.
I'll be ready.
Stan
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Yeah, those both kind of reflect the opinion here of Yassos being more of a negative indicator than anything else, i.e. if you can't do them, you're definitely not going to hit your marathon goal.
There's definitely a place for VO2max work in a marathon program, but I don't think it should be the focus by any means.
There's definitely a place for VO2max work in a marathon program, but I don't think it should be the focus by any means.
mul21- Explaining To Spouse
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Just curious Stan, I see that you're doing your 20 with the last 5 at MP. What's
the most amount of MP miles you've done in a long run this training
cycle (not counting the long tempo runs at MP)?
the most amount of MP miles you've done in a long run this training
cycle (not counting the long tempo runs at MP)?
Seth Harrison- Regular
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Seth Harrison wrote:Just curious Stan, I see that you're doing your 20 with the last 5 at MP. What's
the most amount of MP miles you've done in a long run this training
cycle (not counting the long tempo runs at MP)?
The 12 miles on Friday will be the longest at MP. Two Fridays ago I did 11 at MP. Hal's normal schedule stops at 10, but since I've extended the program four weeks I've kept adding miles. These MP runs are done the day before the long run.
I will do 5 20-milers. The last one is this Saturday. The first, third, and fifth ones are "fast-finish" with miles at marathon pace. For those I've done 3, 4, and 5 miles of MP.
Stan
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
If Jerry could pull this off, Jerry would be ready for sub 2:49. So Jerry thinks Stan is more than ready.
Jerry- Explaining To Spouse
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
If you can do what you have planned this week, and hit your paces, you will have the fitness to run sub 3. Good luck!
Ben Z- Regular
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Ben Z wrote:If you can do what you have planned this week, and hit your paces, you will have the fitness to run sub 3. Good luck!
+1
How's that for a little motivation for the remainder of the week?
Be careful out there since you're probably walking a fine line with respect to injury.
T Miller- Regular
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Peak Week Done
I finished out the week with 73.5 total miles. My last test of fitness was completed with the Friday/Saturday combo. I'm feeling more confident than ever. My training log for those two days:
Friday
12 miles at race pace (6:50). Actual avg pace was 6:48.75. Felt good. This mostly felt quite easy, although I have been suffering from a cold with a scratchy throat and achy joints. Did one lap cooldown.
Saturday
20 miles with last 5 miles at marathon pace (6:50). Actual pace for the 5 miles (20 laps) was 6:45.40. Did Gu at 8, 14, and 17.5 miles. The Gu stop at 17.5 miles was sloppy at pace. Ended up doing 1:51.8 for that lap.
Very proud of this workout and this week. Felt strong throughout.
Friday
12 miles at race pace (6:50). Actual avg pace was 6:48.75. Felt good. This mostly felt quite easy, although I have been suffering from a cold with a scratchy throat and achy joints. Did one lap cooldown.
Saturday
20 miles with last 5 miles at marathon pace (6:50). Actual pace for the 5 miles (20 laps) was 6:45.40. Did Gu at 8, 14, and 17.5 miles. The Gu stop at 17.5 miles was sloppy at pace. Ended up doing 1:51.8 for that lap.
Very proud of this workout and this week. Felt strong throughout.
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
ssilvert wrote:I finished out the week with 73.5 total miles. My last test of fitness was completed with the Friday/Saturday combo. I'm feeling more confident than ever. My training log for those two days:
Friday
12 miles at race pace (6:50). Actual avg pace was 6:48.75. Felt good. This mostly felt quite easy, although I have been suffering from a cold with a scratchy throat and achy joints. Did one lap cooldown.
Saturday
20 miles with last 5 miles at marathon pace (6:50). Actual pace for the 5 miles (20 laps) was 6:45.40. Did Gu at 8, 14, and 17.5 miles. The Gu stop at 17.5 miles was sloppy at pace. Ended up doing 1:51.8 for that lap.
Very proud of this workout and this week. Felt strong throughout.
You should be. You are ready my friend.
Ben Z- Regular
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
You got this!!!!
Nick Morris- Talking To Myself
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
ssilvert wrote:I finished out the week with 73.5 total miles. My last test of fitness was completed with the Friday/Saturday combo. I'm feeling more confident than ever. My training log for those two days:
Friday
12 miles at race pace (6:50). Actual avg pace was 6:48.75. Felt good. This mostly felt quite easy, although I have been suffering from a cold with a scratchy throat and achy joints. Did one lap cooldown.
Saturday
20 miles with last 5 miles at marathon pace (6:50). Actual pace for the 5 miles (20 laps) was 6:45.40. Did Gu at 8, 14, and 17.5 miles. The Gu stop at 17.5 miles was sloppy at pace. Ended up doing 1:51.8 for that lap.
Very proud of this workout and this week. Felt strong throughout.
This Friday/Saturday combo should give you all the confidence you need. You are definitely ready!
Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
65 minutes til the start. Wish me luck!
Stan
Stan
ssilvert- Poster
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Good luck!
Bob- Lord Bobby
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Re: Yasso and the Sub-3
Sorry that we missed Stan - can't wait to read your report. It was cold today! Great racing weather but brutal before and after (for a wussie from south Georgia anyway). Curious to hear your experience too - I've never run any other marathon or half marathon (today) other than Albany.
John Kilpatrick- Explaining To Spouse
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