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Nike Drops Lance

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Post  Nick Morris Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:28 am

It was only a matter of time. I wonder how much of a hit Nike will take in revenue?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444868204578062313532317222.html
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Post  Jerry Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:35 am

No hit on Nike as I am ready to pick up some shorts. lol!
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Post  Mark B Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:17 am

Does this mean I need to scrape the Livestrong logo off the brim of my running hat now?
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:43 pm

Guess we need to toss out all of those yellow rubber bracelets now.

Actually, I am not in the least bit surprised although some folks are. I do not equate Lance's infractions with Tiger or even Michael Vick as some have expressed. Cheating and lying is different than womanizing and abusing animals. Both Tiger and Vick admitted what they did and have paid the price, but they didn't cheat anyone but themselves (one can argue that Tiger cheated his wife, but she made out more than ok and we have no idea when she is saintly or not). Their behavior also did not directly affect their sport or team.
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Post  Dave-O Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:57 pm

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Guess we need to toss out all of those yellow rubber bracelets now.

Actually, I am not in the least bit surprised although some folks are. I do not equate Lance's infractions with Tiger or even Michael Vick as some have expressed. Cheating and lying is different than womanizing and abusing animals. Both Tiger and Vick admitted what they did and have paid the price, but they didn't cheat anyone but themselves (one can argue that Tiger cheated his wife, but she made out more than ok and we have no idea when she is saintly or not). Their behavior also did not directly affect their sport or team.

I agree.

Nike is in a tough spot, but it has to draw a distinction between (a) objectionable off-the-field moral conduct and (b) cheating within the sport.

Plus, if it terminated Tiger's contract, how would it handle Jordan? By all accounts Jordan puts Tiger to shame when it comes to womanizing, gambling, partying, etc. But Jordan is every bit a part of Nike as Bill Bowerman and Phil Knight.

Also....whoopsie....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U&feature=youtu.be
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Post  Mark B Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:21 pm

Dave-O wrote:
Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Guess we need to toss out all of those yellow rubber bracelets now.

Actually, I am not in the least bit surprised although some folks are. I do not equate Lance's infractions with Tiger or even Michael Vick as some have expressed. Cheating and lying is different than womanizing and abusing animals. Both Tiger and Vick admitted what they did and have paid the price, but they didn't cheat anyone but themselves (one can argue that Tiger cheated his wife, but she made out more than ok and we have no idea when she is saintly or not). Their behavior also did not directly affect their sport or team.

I agree.

Nike is in a tough spot, but it has to draw a distinction between (a) objectionable off-the-field moral conduct and (b) cheating within the sport.

Plus, if it terminated Tiger's contract, how would it handle Jordan? By all accounts Jordan puts Tiger to shame when it comes to womanizing, gambling, partying, etc. But Jordan is every bit a part of Nike as Bill Bowerman and Phil Knight.

Also....whoopsie....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U&feature=youtu.be

It's worth noting in this context that, while Nike is renaming the Lance Armstrong center and has renamed the Joe Paterno Child Care Center, the Tiger Woods building remains.
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Post  Tim C Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:46 pm

Can't tell you how disappointed I am in Lance. I believed him when he denied doping all these years. While he still denies doing it, I don't believe he throws in the towel defending himself and stepping down here if not guilty because he knows his name will now be dragged thru the mud.

Now I wonder if any of his tour titles were done clean???
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Post  Nick Morris Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:06 pm

I also see that Lance has stepped down as chair of Livestrong, as well.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/lance-armstrong-steps-down-head-livestrong-cancer-foundation-122330602--oly.html
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Post  Admin Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:21 pm

I'm not sure any TdF wins have been clean. It's certainly an area of speculation. If you read Wikipedia on Le Tour, you'll see that doping controversies have been around since the early 1900s. One rider actually died ascending a mountain after taking amphetamines. Many riders and teams have been DQd over the years.

Lance was competing in a sport with a culture of cheating. It doesn't make it 'right' to cheat, but when everyone's cheating you want to be the best cheater in the sport. He was. There's almost nothing in sports to compare to his 7 consecutive TdF wins. While it's fair for sports authorities to conclude he cheated, and it's also fair to strip him of his titles, it doesn't take away from the fact that he held a level of elite athleticism in his sport that is unparalleled... and will likely never be equaled. Much like the modern day HR record... though I don't find that nearly as impressive as 7 TdF wins.

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Post  Tim C Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:41 pm

I couldn't agree more about how impressive those 7 wins are. Also, even if he was doping, he was competing against a bunch of other riders who were doping. Doesn't make it right, it just reaffirms how difficult it had to be to do what he did.

I read his book a few years back and really enjoyed it. He was one tough son of a bitch. A son of a bitch to be sure, but a really, really tough one. What he did to win arguably the toughest sporting event ever invented, 7 times, is simply amazing.

I'm still disappointed though...
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Post  Diego Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:56 pm

The abuse, coercion and intimidation of his teammates are as impressively disappointing as were the thrills associated with his 7 wins and foundation fundraising.

If I were a cartoonist, I'd draw a cyclist with two faces with Nike cleats, a stash of $$ in his jersey, and several syringes sticking out his arms as he runs over his sponsors and even the victims he helped.

He didn't commit mass murder like the Unabomber but he certainly shared many of the same high IQ, sociopathic qualities in his attempt to "win at any costs, human or not."

Thank God he sublimated those thoughts into something that benefitted people in need, even if in the end, it perhaps was just an elaborate cover.

And you know, I really liked him, despite knowing that he cheated. But what he did to his friends and teammates is difficult to forgive(I know they also had a choice).

RIP Lance.

One can only hope that Bradley Wiggins is clean and that a new page in cycling has been turned. But it's hard to be optimistic.
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Post  Kenny B. Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:25 am

It's like Body Building Competitions. Steroids is illegal yet everyone is on steroids in those competitions. I like what Matt said Lane was the best of the best in cheating in a sport that is full of cheaters.

However, I don't think everyone in that sport cheated and quite frankly winning 7 TDF's although is impressive when you do it cheating it becomes depressive.

Imagine how fearful, sad, guilty and shameful he must have felt all these years hiding this secret. In a sense he must be relieved and in another sense guilt and shame probably still haunts him.
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Post  JohnP Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:52 am

Even I believe now that he cheated. I am wondering if his ex-wife, who was implicated in testimony, and who writes a great running blog for Runner's World, will say anything now.

I'm also struggling to understand why behavior like this is not treated as harshly in major league baseball. These guys when caught get suspended for what, 50 games? Alex Rodriguez admitted taking PED yet is still playing, however poorly it is. Their penalties are nothing like what Lance has received.
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Post  JohnP Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:54 am

Kenny B. wrote:
Imagine how fearful, sad, guilty and shameful he must have felt all these years hiding this secret. In a sense he must be relieved and in another sense guilt and shame probably still haunts him.

I don't think he is relieved yet. His official position is still one of denial. And he is facing or could face lawsuits. There is a whistle blower law suit pending that could hurt him. He's got to be worried about all that still. I assume he never lied under oath like Roger Clemens but if he did, there is potential for that. And could Nike sue for repayment of fees if there is some clause in the contract covering this?
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Post  Dave-O Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:11 pm

JohnP wrote:

I'm also struggling to understand why behavior like this is not treated as harshly in major league baseball. These guys when caught get suspended for what, 50 games? Alex Rodriguez admitted taking PED yet is still playing, however poorly it is. Their penalties are nothing like what Lance has received.

Because the player's unions in baseball and football are strong as hell and have bargained for lenient penalties.
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Post  Bob Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:02 pm

And now, more reason to dislike Lance:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512?localLinksEnabled=false
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Post  Ken Mello Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:56 pm

Glad to see that the tide is turning and that some of those who adamantly defended Lance are finally seeing the light. Especially here in Austin, he has a very strong contingent who still refuse to admit that any of this might be true.

On the other hand, I have met a whole bunch of people who have interacted with him around Austin, and who told me, in so many words, that in the world of assholes, Lance is by far the biggest in real life. He is especially fond of throwing the old "do you know who I am!?" around when he doesnt get his way, apparently.
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Post  Admin Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:18 pm

Eh...

From the perspective of what this guy accomplished... my mind's unchanged. He did something that's so unbelievable and unparalleled... even doping doesn't diminish it, considering it was in a sport that is/was rampant with abuse. To win a few times would've been impressive, and easy to dismiss. To win like he did, for as long as he did, goes so far beyond what PEDs can do for you... his will to win was unmatched in modern sports. Whether or not he is/was an asshole isn't relevant to me. What matters is what motivated this guy year after year after year... to be the best, despite all of the scrutiny and accusations. He did it.

All of the haters feel good now that they have reason to bash Lance. Yeah, he cheated. Yeah, he's a dick. None of that changes what he accomplished, and how he put international cycling into the mainstream here in the US and in many countries around the world. Lance didn't invent blood doping, but he worked to perfect it. His competitors were trying to do the same thing. Look at the track record in cycling to see how long doping has been around and the effects it's had... Lance was just the best of the best.

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Post  Bob Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:24 pm

Mr MattM wrote:Eh...

From the perspective of what this guy accomplished... my mind's unchanged. He did something that's so unbelievable and unparalleled... even doping doesn't diminish it, considering it was in a sport that is/was rampant with abuse. To win a few times would've been impressive, and easy to dismiss. To win like he did, for as long as he did, goes so far beyond what PEDs can do for you... his will to win was unmatched in modern sports. Whether or not he is/was an asshole isn't relevant to me. What matters is what motivated this guy year after year after year... to be the best, despite all of the scrutiny and accusations. He did it.

All of the haters feel good now that they have reason to bash Lance. Yeah, he cheated. Yeah, he's a dick. None of that changes what he accomplished, and how he put international cycling into the mainstream here in the US and in many countries around the world. Lance didn't invent blood doping, but he worked to perfect it. His competitors were trying to do the same thing. Look at the track record in cycling to see how long doping has been around and the effects it's had... Lance was just the best of the best.



I agree he won the tour while everyone else was doing the same as him. That's not why I dislike him.

I don't like bullies and cowards.
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Post  Admin Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:57 pm

Bob wrote:



I agree he won the tour while everyone else was doing the same as him. That's not why I dislike him.

I don't like bullies and cowards.

I can't argue that... I believe that he is/was both a bully and coward.

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Post  Nick Morris Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:09 am

The hits keep coming, as now he has been stripped of his TdF titles.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/uci-agrees-strip-armstrong-7-113942352--spt.html
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:19 am

Nick Morris wrote:The hits keep coming, as now he has been stripped of his TdF titles.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/uci-agrees-strip-armstrong-7-113942352--spt.html

I get this, but shouldn't they be stripping many others of their titles as well? What about Contador? Wasn't he banned the following year from testing positive? I'm sure there are many others.
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Post  Mike MacLellan Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:21 am

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:
Nick Morris wrote:The hits keep coming, as now he has been stripped of his TdF titles.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/uci-agrees-strip-armstrong-7-113942352--spt.html

I get this, but shouldn't they be stripping many others of their titles as well? What about Contador? Wasn't he banned the following year from testing positive? I'm sure there are many others.

Yes. And he was stripped of his title (given to Schlek) as well as received a 2-year retroactive ban. When he came back, he slaughtered the Giro but completely flopped in the Tour.

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Post  Alex Kubacki Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:35 am

What's BS about this is WADA changed the statue of limitation rules to get Lance under the pretense that you have to change rules to get cheaters. Yet for years when people would push about the East Germans WADA kept saying it's past the statue of limitations and there's nothing they can do. They have no creditbility.
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Post  Michele "1L" Keane Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:14 pm

Alex Kubacki wrote:What's BS about this is WADA changed the statue of limitation rules to get Lance under the pretense that you have to change rules to get cheaters. Yet for years when people would push about the East Germans WADA kept saying it's past the statue of limitations and there's nothing they can do. They have no creditbility.

Goes back to the fact that Frank Shorter should have a second gold medal for the marathon in Montreal and Don Kardong should have the bronze.
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