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Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

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Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:48 pm

I'm running my 13th marathon at Fox Cities (Appleton, Wisconsin) mid-September. I would like this to be a PR which is anything below 4:11:13. Most recently I ran Lincoln Marathon in 4:13 and then 3 weeks later Fargo was just a "for fun" marathon in 4:29 pacing one of my friends and getting another state towards my 50 state marathon goal. I now have 10 states and hope I started this endeavor young enough that I can finish my goal some day.

Right now I'm trying to figure out speed work and following a training plan. I'm using Pfitzinger 55 but it is somewhat hard for me to figure out sticking in 100m strides during a general aerobic run since these are sort of new terms to me. I typically run in a group and I have my fast friend I run with twice a week for sort of long runs 8 and 10 milers. Previously I haven't been very good at following training plans other than using them as a guide for my long runs and then running about 6 days a week doing mostly 6 milers with a group of friends who meet at 5:30 a.m.

Another summer goal is to lose wt, my ultimate goal would be 20 lbs but anything below 142 would be just fine. I was 144 last year and then gained 5 lbs rather quickly this winter that I haven't lost yet. I do have troubles with all the fueling enough to run yet still ending the day on a calorie deficit so I am open to anyone's ideas on how that works for them.

I do have an almost-two year old daughter who sometimes joins me in the jogging stroller but most of my runs are around 5 or 530 a.m. so I can be home and showered before my husband leaves for work.

That was probably way more long-winded than I needed to be. Bottom line, want to PR in September, I think I have a fighting chance at it with training in the heat all summer and then hope for a nice cool day in September. I probably could have done it at Lincoln but started out too fast and ran 2:03 first half 2:10 second half.

Anyway, that's that. Today I ran 17 miles around 10:00 pace probably. I don't have a GPS or Garmin...just a watch. Thanks for reading and for any input. Happy running to you all!
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:03 pm

Great job on getting the blog started Julie! I'm excited to follow along. I think that with the type of training you're putting in, you will PR. You seem to really want this; you are determined and it will pay off.

I'm exited that you have this going now, as you and I are both doing the Pfitz plan and we both have around the same amount of weight we would like to lose (with the same struggle of fueling and ending the day in a calorie deficit). This will provide a great opportunity to throw ideas and advice out there to each other, while helping others out.

Here's to a great training cycle and weight loss journey! cheers
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:57 pm

From what I've been reading in the other thread floating around somewhere, you've got that PR for sure. Just follow the plan and don't stress too much if you're going a bit faster or slower than you "should be." Smile
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  John Kilpatrick on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:13 pm

13 marathons? That is impressive! You obviously have fantastic recovery times between marathons - If you mix in some speed work with your base training, I would think you would be able to not only break, but smash your 4:11. Glad to see your blog here and good luck!!!

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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Natalie on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:14 pm

Ok... when did you get to 13??? Those jogging strollers are great for running fitness. I need to borrow a baby...
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:05 am

Natalie Wolf wrote:Ok... when did you get to 13??? Those jogging strollers are great for running fitness. I need to borrow a baby...

I'd loan you Jocelyn but she's probably too far away. She really loves going with me, too. Last week I said we'd go and she didn't even want breakfast or to give her daddy a kiss good bye before we left, just "jogging stroller run, jogging stroller run!!"

My first marathon was Sept 2006, then May 07, Sept 07, 08 I ran Feb, April, Oct, Nov - Nov I was pregnant for that marathon, had my baby in July, so no marathons in 09, '10 I ran one in May and my 50K in Oct. This year I ran Feb, and 2 in May and then this one will be 13...

Lisa - thanks for the encouragement! Do you have any of Nancy Clark's Books? I really like her Sports Nutrition Guidebook and her Food Guide for Marathoners is good, too, although the Sports Guidebook is more comprehensive. I'm going to plan to eat 2000 cals/day. That sounds like a lot but I am eating much more than that now and maintaining. If I go below 1700 I'm too hungry to sleep and 1800 is just on the edge of being able to run with enough energy.

John thank you!

Mike - thanks for the encouragement, too! I am willing to do whatever work it takes to get there and if on race day it's hot or whatever else could go wrong does, I'm not going to beat myself up over not PR-ing but if conditions are all right, I would really like to, too!

Today is cross training/rest day so I'm doing day 2 of level 1 30 day shred which is just a circuit workout cardio, abs, wts. It's good for me because the cardio is very easy but the abs and wts are difficult and I just am not consistent with cross training.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Nick Morris on Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:17 am

Good luck with your training this summer!! The Fox Cities Marathon is a good race and is relatively flat. (Asided from the occasional overpass) I have ran the half marathon now for the last 6 years and will be back again this year for number 7.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Peg Coover on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:19 am

Good luck Julie! I look forward to reading about your training and jogging with the toddler! My daughter runs with her one-year old in the BOB and he loves it!

Lincoln seems like a tough course. I love the half marathon, but the second half for the full seems like it would be hard, especially this year with that wind! You did great!
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Ken Mello on Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:55 am

Losing weight AND running are a hard combination, and people will say its not a good idea. But I once trained for a race AND dropped 40 lbs at the same time, and ended up with a huge PR, so it can be done. And it sounds like you understand your body and what it needs to go. Occasionally, be willing to go over that number if you feel your body needs it, and it will work out fine.

13 marathons since 2006? I need to work harder.....
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Tom H on Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:38 pm

@Ken Mello wrote:Losing weight AND running are a hard combination, and people will say its not a good idea. But I once trained for a race AND dropped 40 lbs at the same time, and ended up with a huge PR, so it can be done. And it sounds like you understand your body and what it needs to go. Occasionally, be willing to go over that number if you feel your body needs it, and it will work out fine.

13 marathons since 2006? I need to work harder.....
What Ken said. All of it! 13 Marathons Julie, wow - that is impressive. I've got a lot of catching up to do! Smile

That weight loss thing is a real conundrum to me. The initial loss when I started running came easy, but since then it is a real battle between fueling enough to be strong for the running and limiting intake to acheive the weight loss. I can't say as I've hit on the right formula yet, so if you find it please share!
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:04 am

2nd attempt since little daughter just erased my post.

Nick - good to hear about the race being flat. I don't mind hills but they never make things easier. It'll be my first time in WI so we're making it a little vacation, just really a 4 day wkend but better than nothing. We plan to visit a rock quarry Saturday.

Peg - thanks! I love Lincoln Marathon, it's really not that bad, the second half was very windy but weather can be unhelpful at any given race. It's nice knowing a lot of people along the course. One of the police officers was my friend's husband so I said hi to him twice and then one of my friends was a course bicyclist, too. Glad your daughter is enjoying the BOB. It was expensive but I really like it, too. I don't find it much more effort than running alone except for the time to load her up. Even that isn't bad now that it's warm out and she doesn't need to be bundled up.

Ken - well, I'm training for #13 so really just 12 marathons so far. I agree losing wt is hard while marathon training...I haven't really made progress yet but I'm at least trying. If I get stuck at 145 I'm not going to freak out but I don't think I should weigh much more than that, either. I'm thinking just cutting out ice cream and cookies will do something.

Tom - I'll let you know if anything works! I'm writing down everything and I read people who log everything eat 20% less so that alone should help.

6 mile run moderate effort this a.m. It was supposed to be 8 but I had to be home early for my husband to go to a breakfast thing his friend is speaking at before work. So anyway, I'll run 8 tomorrow. I logged everything I ate yesterday and thought I was sensible but wt did not budge. I realize it's not an overnight thing but one of these weeks I better at least lose a pound!

We got a kitten yesterday and she did great. She slept all night long in her little carrier. My daughter is enjoying her, too. They're pretty cute together. Jocelyn read her stories and said "look at this picture" and showed her pictures in her book. But that is not at all running related so I'll keep it short. Smile
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Peg Coover on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:34 am

We got the BOB for Micki for her baby shower. I'm glad we did because she uses it and probably wouldn't have been able to get one until about now, since my son-in-law started his pharmacist job. We also got Ethan a bike trailer for his first birthday!

I don't know what it is about these last few pounds this year! I haven't worked hard enough to lose them. For me, cutting out alcohol would help my weight and my running! It just seems we are always hanging out with friends who also enjoy wine and beer!

Good luck on your 8. Happy summer solstice, although it is cloudy/stormy here today. Oh, did Lincoln get storms?
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:53 am

Peg - yeah, and I don't drink, although every few weeks I have orange juice. We had storms, pretty loud thunder and some tree branches came down but our house is in one piece so I'm not complaining. I wish I could say we're thankful for the rain but with all the flooding we just don't need it right now.

I need to eat veggies more regularly. I eat plenty of fruit but vegetables get left out more often than not. Anyone with veggie ideas please share.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:42 am

Today called for 8 miles General Aerobic with 8 x 100 meter strides. I'm not sure if I did this properly but I mapped out my route to figure out where each mile started and hit the split button on my watch so I at least knew what I was doing. A block before the end of each mile I ran hard, sprinting for my 100 m strides. (Maybe I did this all wrong but hey, it was a run and I was trying to follow the plan).

Here are my splits.

1 9:46 (this was a little longer than a mile)
2 9:15
3 9:21
4 9:29
5 10:56 (went an extra block and stopped for water at a park)
6 9:49
7 9:37
8 9:33

1:17:49 8 miles plus had about .4 mile warm up/cool down/get to recognizable main intersection to start mileage Very Happy

I can say that I felt like it was a workout, not just "I ran 8 miles" I don't know if I was going too fast for GA pace, I was pushing it somewhat but not all-out-I-am-going-to-pass-out pace.

On another positive note, I finally lost some weight so at least I'm seeing results of going to bed somewhat hungry, not really hungry starving but when my toddler asks for cheesy bread for her night time snack it looks good to me, too.

nice and cool weather this morning, I think in the 60s, pretty windy, we had 24+ tornadoes 2 nights ago in the general area but we were fine, just lost some large tree branches. No deaths were reported in Nebraska from the storm, at least.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Tom H on Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:28 am

Great workout, Julie. And the way you ran it is a perfectly acceptable way to do so. Seems like you found a good balance of 'comfortably hard' which is great. Congrats on the weight loss; doesn't it feel good when you finally get that ball rolling? Sounds as if you are in a good place to continue down that path as well. Keep it going on all fronts!
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Kenny B. on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:33 pm

@Julie wrote:
Right now I'm trying to figure out speed work and following a training plan. I'm using Pfitzinger 55 but it is somewhat hard for me to figure out sticking in 100m strides during a general aerobic run since these are sort of new terms to me. I typically run in a group and I have my fast friend I run with twice a week for sort of long runs 8 and 10 milers. Previously I haven't been very good at following training plans other than using them as a guide for my long runs and then running about 6 days a week doing mostly 6 milers with a group of friends who meet at 5:30 a.m.


Strides are typically done at the end of a work out. 6 to 10x 100m @ a very fast but controlled speed. Meaning relaxed arms good form. Almost a sprint I would say but no quite there. Speed up as you go and slow down a bit towards the end. I usually do them after recovery runs, LSD runs, even GA runs. I like them for many reasons one they clean out the pipes day or so before a race and they also help break up a run. Example. 8 miles @ GA. I'll run like 6.5 @ GA then do 8x100m with 200m recovery job between then cool down .5 back to my house. Overall pace still gets me around GA zone I get the mileage in and I get some fast leg turnover.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:46 pm

@Kenny B. wrote:
@Julie wrote:
Right now I'm trying to figure out speed work and following a training plan. I'm using Pfitzinger 55 but it is somewhat hard for me to figure out sticking in 100m strides during a general aerobic run since these are sort of new terms to me. I typically run in a group and I have my fast friend I run with twice a week for sort of long runs 8 and 10 milers. Previously I haven't been very good at following training plans other than using them as a guide for my long runs and then running about 6 days a week doing mostly 6 milers with a group of friends who meet at 5:30 a.m.


Strides are typically done at the end of a work out. 6 to 10x 100m @ a very fast but controlled speed. Meaning relaxed arms good form. Almost a sprint I would say but no quite there. Speed up as you go and slow down a bit towards the end. I usually do them after recovery runs, LSD runs, even GA runs. I like them for many reasons one they clean out the pipes day or so before a race and they also help break up a run. Example. 8 miles @ GA. I'll run like 6.5 @ GA then do 8x100m with 200m recovery job between then cool down .5 back to my house. Overall pace still gets me around GA zone I get the mileage in and I get some fast leg turnover.

Thank you very much for the explanation, Kenny! So I should have just stuck them on at the end...I will do this next week.

Tom - thank you, yes it feels good to make some progress in wt loss after talking about wanting to lose weight since January!

Edit to add:

While I on the topic of speed work terms I don't entirely understand, "VO2Max w/ 5x 600m at 5k race pace, 90 seconds (8 mile workout)" how would I do that?
and when it says Lactate Threshold with 7 miles at 15K to 1/2 pace (12 miles total) I just make sure 7 miles of my run is at 15K to 1/2 marathon pace? Then what is the effort/speed for the rest of the run?
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Mike MacLellan on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:55 pm

@Julie wrote:
@Kenny B. wrote:
@Julie wrote:
Right now I'm trying to figure out speed work and following a training plan. I'm using Pfitzinger 55 but it is somewhat hard for me to figure out sticking in 100m strides during a general aerobic run since these are sort of new terms to me. I typically run in a group and I have my fast friend I run with twice a week for sort of long runs 8 and 10 milers. Previously I haven't been very good at following training plans other than using them as a guide for my long runs and then running about 6 days a week doing mostly 6 milers with a group of friends who meet at 5:30 a.m.


Strides are typically done at the end of a work out. 6 to 10x 100m @ a very fast but controlled speed. Meaning relaxed arms good form. Almost a sprint I would say but no quite there. Speed up as you go and slow down a bit towards the end. I usually do them after recovery runs, LSD runs, even GA runs. I like them for many reasons one they clean out the pipes day or so before a race and they also help break up a run. Example. 8 miles @ GA. I'll run like 6.5 @ GA then do 8x100m with 200m recovery job between then cool down .5 back to my house. Overall pace still gets me around GA zone I get the mileage in and I get some fast leg turnover.

Thank you very much for the explanation, Kenny! So I should have just stuck them on at the end...I will do this next week.

Tom - thank you, yes it feels good to make some progress in wt loss after talking about wanting to lose weight since January!

Edit to add:

While I on the topic of speed work terms I don't entirely understand, "VO2Max w/ 5x 600m at 5k race pace, 90 seconds (8 mile workout)" how would I do that?
and when it says Lactate Threshold with 7 miles at 15K to 1/2 pace (12 miles total) I just make sure 7 miles of my run is at 15K to 1/2 marathon pace? Then what is the effort/speed for the rest of the run?

For the 8-miler, you'd want to warm up with 2-2.5 miles then start your intervals. 5k race pace technically should come from a race, but for a general idea, think HARD but sustainable. Not a full-out sprint that leaves you exhausted after every interval, but a pace that definitely taxes you. The 90 seconds would be recovery; with this sort of workout, you want a full recovery between intervals, so walking would be acceptable. Then cooldown with whatever mileage is left to complete the 8.

For the 12, I'd warm up with 3, do 7 at LT, then CD with 2. Warm up and cool down are as easy as you want. But that's actually a really, really hard workout, when you think about it. You're more or less running 60-70% of a race. I wouldn't be too afraid to break the LT section into intervals, for now. Try to shorten the rest periods between those intervals later on, so you build up to a continuous 7. But 7 at the beginning of the cycle seems really excessive, IMO.

Regarding vegetables: what kind of cuisine do you like? I'm vegan, so I've gotcha covered here Wink
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:13 pm

Thanks Mike!

We like Italian, Chinese, pretty much anything as long as it's not too spicy. I can't handle garlic and I'm allergic to peanuts and tree nuts and not really great with soy since it's related to peanuts and tree nuts. I was vegan for only 2 yrs and it was over 10 years ago and did a terrible job at being healthy with it (not enough protein, ended up all pale and anemic but all my food sensitivities and allergies didn't help anything).

We always have frozen broccoli, corn and peas and canned green beans and fresh carrots available. But usually what we do is just heat them up and eat them for a side dish plain which I know is nothing really wrong with but I think if I had more to do with them we'd eat more of them. I'm willing to buy other veggies, of course, but I'm not going to buy them and then throw them out in a week because they're slimy and we didn't get around to eating them. We have 4 tomato plants in our backyard but they're not ready yet. If I need to give you more to go off of, let me know. Thanks!
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Paula Sue on Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:12 pm

I'm loving reading your blog, Julie. Multi-marathoning is fun and, at least for me, keeps me motivated to train. I bought Pfitz's book before we left on 'the adventure'. So many here have trained with his programs and seem to do well. I'm excited to see how it works for you. Good luck in this training period.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  JohnP on Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:47 pm

Julie, I think I remember your first marathon on the other boards, it's amazing you've run 12 marathons. I also like the marathons for fun concept, taking it slower. It sounds like you are adding speed work in and especially some tempos. It's pretty difficult to just suddenly run a long LT run, remember, those are things you have to build up to.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Kenny B. on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:48 am

Julie - LT runs or known as FCR (Fast Continuous Runs) can be very hard. I find them to be the hardest workouts in my schedule ranging from 4-7 miles. So what I do to prepare for them is I will do LT/Intervals early in the schedule or even before I start Marathon training. (18 week program you can incorporate it first 2-3 weeks) I will 2x1 mile @ LT pace with 2-3 min recovery job between. LT pace typically can be 15k-HM pace. I tend to go closer to 15k. Then next week or two weeks do 3x1 and then 2x2. At that point you should be able to transition more comfortably into 4 @ LT continuous. I know others have used this as well.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:45 pm

Thank you Paula Sue!

John - yes, I joined the boards while training for my first marathon, Omaha in Sept 2006. So glad I stuck with it. I haven't done formal speed work before but keeping up with my one friend is kind of speed work, too (at least that is what everyone else in the group says) Either way, she did help me get faster and we still run together 2-3 times a week. I'm not going to be too upset if I don't get everything down perfectly for this marathon training but I at least trying to follow the plan. In the past I have run 6 milers most days of the week and then just followed training programs for their long runs.

Kenny - thank you for the LT advice. I think right now I have 13 or 14 more weeks until the marathon. It's September 18th.

Today is cross training or rest day, and thus far it's been a rest day. I may walk my toddler to the grocery store this afternoon or do another 30 day shred after she naps but otherwise it's going to be a rest day. Tomorrow is 8 mile GA.
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Mrs. Schuey on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:27 pm

Julie, I love following your training and I am beyond excited to see how great you do in September. Your consistency will pay off.

Do you do all your long runs on Sunday that early? I ask, because it gets me out the door knowing you're out there putting in the miles too.

What is the Shred?
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Re: Julie's PR attempt at Fox Cities

Post  Julie on Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:08 am

@Mrs. Schuey wrote:Julie, I love following your training and I am beyond excited to see how great you do in September. Your consistency will pay off.

Do you do all your long runs on Sunday that early? I ask, because it gets me out the door knowing you're out there putting in the miles too.

What is the Shred?

Yes, I get up by 4:45 every day unless it's a rest day, run by 5:15. Then usually once a week I'm up at 4:15 to run at 4:45.

The Shred is a 20-some minute circut workout I have a DVD for. It's by Jillian Michaels who was on the Biggest Loser (which I'm not endorsing but the workout is good:). It's just cardio, abs, wts, 3 times.

Once you get used to getting up early to run it's not so bad, and I always have some coffee before I head out. Very Happy
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