Closer to the Edge

Stephanie O wrote:Dave, do you do untimed runs for a particular reason/benefit?

When I'm feeling especially fatigued I try to leave the watch at home. That way I know I'll stick to a true "recovery" pace instead of hitting a pre-determined pace.

Schuey wrote:Great looking week of training and there is no doubt that you are getting stronger on those 10 mile tempo runs. As for the weather on Thursday and Friday of last week man that was so nice, sure wish we had that weather again this week!

Nice seeing you and Lisa last night...thanks for stopping by and having a few cold (ok lukewarm) beers.

Matt W wrote:

Another great week Dave. Your long tempo and fast ML run were especially impressive. You had a lot of quality in your 110 miles and that bodes well for the future.

It seems like you've gotten your groove back and are really ready to make up for the frustrating spring you endured. Keep up the strong running.

Thanks Matt. I'm just trying to take it one week at a time.

jimd wrote:Well...? Are you still alive?

Enquiring minds want to know, what beers did you end up drinking?

Still alive and kicking. I stuck with light beers last night. Our race cooler was Miller Lite, then a few Bud Lights when I got home. I love good beers, but I don't mind the light beers for certain events.

Chris M wrote:Nice work last night. That guy wanted to end it right off the bat. He couldn't sustain that pace but going with him for too long would have been suicide and he probably had that as his strategy. Smart running to let him go and fight for 2nd/3rd.

I'll put up a full report, but yeah, I think he wanted to "end" the race very early. It makes sense. Why let the heat play a factor in the last mile?

mul21 wrote:Heckuva race in the heat! Unfortunate that there wasn't anything more delicious than Bud Light on the menu!

Bud Light is my go-to light beer of choice. Don't mind it at all.

John Kilpatrick wrote:Dave,

Are your untimed runs always recovery-type runs?If so, why do you time some of the recovery runs and not others? Just curious and trying to learn as I go....

Yes, recovery runs are the only ones I don't time. Sometimes I just decide to leave the watch at home and go by effort...usually on days when I know my pace is going to be really slow. And when I ran into work in the morning, that's usually the case.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Congrats on the speedy 5K, Dave-O. I had no power yesterday, but I thought about you and wondered how the "unofficial" race went.

"Unofficial" race went about as planned. Good times. Now, about that 10 mile race tomorrow morning...

Chicago Training, Week 6: July 18 – 24

Monday: 5 miles – 37:19, 7:28 pace. 9 miles – 1:04:57, 7:13 pace. This week is going to be….interesting. I have two races on the calendar, Race Judicata 5k and the Waterfall Glen 10, as well as an all-day bachelor party on Saturday. Add in the 100 heat index that is forecasted for the week and I have no idea what to expect. I don’t expect PRs in either race, but at the same time, I’d like to run well. And despite this being a slight step-back week, I’d still like to hit triple digits. Not to mention work. I’m stressed just writing about it.

Tuesday: 6 miles – 44:26, 7:24 pace. 12 miles – 1:22:57, 6:55 pace. The brutal heat and humidity fully hit today with temperatures in the upper 90’s and a heat index approaching 110. I considered sticking indoors but decided instead to face the conditions. If nothing else, I need to get acclimated eventually. I figured that if I slowed my pace and stopped frequently for water, I’d be okay. As I started, I can say it’s the first time in years I was happy to “bank” time under a 7:00 pace. Every time I’d hit 6:50, I’d tell myself that it bought me a 7:10 at the end of the run. Though I never needed to break the bank to keep the pace south of seven, I definitely wore down after an hour in the conditions. Let’s hope this heat wave passes soon.

Wednesday: 5 miles – 36:58, 7:24 pace. 7 miles – 50:28, 7:13 pace. After a deposition in McHenry, I had a tough decision between two competing interests: my enjoyment of exploring new running routes in the suburbs versus my general policy not to run when the heat index is over 105! The prior won out as I set off for an easy run at Moraine Hills State Park. Thanks to advanced scouting, I knew there was a 3.5 mile loop around a small lake. Really, other than the heat, it was a very enjoyable and scenic run. If McHenry wasn’t practically in Wisconsin, I’d head out there more often.

Thursday: 4 miles – 29:58, 7:30 pace. Race Judicata – 16:40, 3^rd place. My race report is posted in the Races forum.

Friday: 5 miles- 38:04, 7:37 pace. 8 miles – 56:12, 7:01 pace. Today was unchartered territory for me. I’ve never run two races in a week, let alone in three days. Though I wanted to somewhat recover from last night’s 5k. At the same time, I didn’t want to bail on my hopes for 100 miles, so I crammed in two easy runs. I was definitely more beat up from the 5k than I expected.

Saturday: 16 miles, with 10 miles – 1:00:39, 6:04 pace. I knew when I signed up for the Waterfall Glen Xtreme 10 miler (that’s not a typo… the “E” is intentionally omitted) it wouldn’t be pretty. The race went off a mere 36 hours after Race Judicata, and the hilly crushed limestone trail isn’t fast to begin with. But I would never have predicted my legs would be completely lifeless; I felt so fatigued warming up I considered not even running. Add in the fact that a storm last night flooded the half-mile grass start and finish and parts of the trail, and I wasn’t too excited. Still, I thought holding a 5:45 pace would be achievable. Not so. I forgot my watch at home, so I never once knew any splits or my pace during the race. I knew it wasn’t fast – by any means – but I thought it was under 6:00. Wrong again. I crossed in a pathetic 1:00:39. Whatever. At least it was an honest hard effort on a hilly, sloppy trail, and that I know never to sign up for two races in three days again. If nothing else, I ran a lot harder than I would have on my own, and given the terrain, I can still call it a 10 mile tempo run.

Sunday: 5 miles, untimed. 10 miles – 1:10:55 pace. This is what you call doing the absolute minimum to salvage a 100 mile week. To be honest, my right hamstring was definitely bothering me. I noticed it a bit on Friday, and after Saturday’s shit-show, it was balking at me a little bit on both runs today. I’ll probably stick with recovery pace on Monday before testing it out with a tempo run. While this week wasn’t perfect, I accomplished just about everything I set out on Monday, so I won’t complain too much.

Week: 100
YTD: 2,375

Sounds like a tough week, but you pushed through it and got your triple digits.

Although you say you won't do it again, getting out there for a 10 miler so close to the 5K and running it hard will help you in the long run. No way you would have run that hard without having the bib on so it forces you to do a good tough tempo effort. Pay attention to that hammy and get on the mill for a couple of recovery days in a row if needed.

The race at Waterfall Glen is tough under normal circumstances. It looks to me like you did a great job with those wasted legs.

Chicago Training, Week 7: July 25 – 31

Monday: 5 miles – 37:49, 7:34 pace. 10 miles – 1:08:26, 6:51 pace. I’ve put last week’s sub-par races behind me. For the next four weeks – numbers 7 through 10 of the cycle – my goal is to log two tempo runs per week. This week they fall on Tuesday and Thursday, with a long run Saturday. I expect to fight some fatigue along the way, but I did feel fresh on today’s easy runs. Also, if all goes according to plan this week, July will end up my highest mileage month of 2011 thus far.

Tuesday: 6 miles – 44:26, 7:24 pace with hill sprints. 12 miles – 1:17:08, with 6 miles – 32:43, 5:27 pace. Despite a successful 4-week progression on my 10 mile tempos, I was a little nervous heading into my first “short” tempo. After Race Judicata, I realized that sub-5:30 pace is a shock to my legs, as it should be after not running that fast for months. With that in mind, I set my sights on a 5:30 target pace. The first two miles (5:36, 5:33) were pretty easy; I definitely felt under control. The next two (5:29, 5:26) were a little harder, but still not overwhelming. Typically when I hit mile 4 of a 6 mile tempo, I consider myself “home free” and thus allowed to hammer away. I closed with 5:22 and 5:14. I consider it a successful return to the faster end of tempo range.

Wednesday: 5 miles – 37:34, 7:31 pace. 10 miles – 1:10:47, 7:05 pace. It’s really easy to slack off on an easy day sandwiched between two tempo days. It’s even easier when you’re looking forward to softball the entire run home. I basically just counted down the miles until Tecates and wings.

Thursday: 5 miles – 37:48, 7:34 pace. 16 miles – 1:39:37, with 12 miles – 1:09:13, 5:46 pace. I got a late start on this one and didn’t get to the gym until 7:00 pm. With Britt out to dinner with her girlfriends though, I wouldn’t let myself use the clock as an excuse to bail on my planned 12 mile tempo, partially because I had put together a bad-ass playlist for the 70 minute workout. I won’t bore you with all twelve splits – especially since they’re all between 5:35 and 5:59 – but I will say 12 miles is a mentally tough workout. It’s never fun to get to 5 miles and still not be halfway done. Though I went through some mental battles from about 6 through 9, physically the run went really well. My aerobic fitness was not an issue at all, and my legs handled the pace sufficiently. The only downside was the disaster I left around the treadmill. Sorry, Wicker Park Fitness. On the other hand, I pay $29.99 to use the gym about 6 times per month. Deal with it.

Friday: 5 miles – untimed. 7 miles – 50:44, 7:15 pace. My legs were fried jogging into work, probably because it was less than 12 hours after I finished the 12 mile tempo. It was untimed, but probably close to 8:00 pace. After a half day of work, Britt and I drove to Rockford for a wedding. While she was at the church rehearsal, I ventured off for 7 easy miles. About a mile and a half from the hotel, I found Rockford Christian High School, the former home of state champion Brandon Mull. I ran 4 miles on the track to give my legs a break before heading back to the hotel. I wouldn’t say I felt good at any time during the run, but I kept the effort easy.

Saturday: 20 miles – 2:21:59, 7:06 pace. Thanks to my man Jim, I had detailed directions on where to go to knock out my long run before the wedding. And thanks to my decision to swallow my pride before I even started the run – by promising myself that pace didn’t matter – I was actually able to finish this one, though it wasn’t easy. When I started, it was already 80, and the trail along the Rock River didn’t provide much shade. There also wasn’t an abundance of water fountains, especially after the 5.5 mile mark. I found one more by a group of softball fields, but then turned around at 7.5 in fear of going too much further without water.

I ended up back at my car after 14 miles (slightly different route back that didn’t include a detour) and changed into dry shorts, socks and shoes. If you don’t do this during the summer, you’re missing out; such a refreshing feeling. While the last 6 miles stayed consistently around 7:00, I was definitely getting worn out by the heat. When I finished the 20 it was almost 90 and there wasn’t a cloud in the sky. I’ll never brag about the pace of this run, but on the other hand, 2:20 on my feet isn’t too shabby. It certainly made the beer (and wine and Ketel) go down smooth at the wedding.

Sunday: 9 miles – untimed. I planned to run twice today, with the first being an untimed 5 miler. During that run, I decided to extend it to 9 to hit 110 and call it a day with a single. Instead of hitting 115, I opted to get a head start on my recovery for Monday’s tempo run. You could say I gave into “quality” over “quantity,” but come on, I still hit 110.

That brings an end to July with my total mileage at 468, my third highest ever. Call me greedy, but I want more in August.

Week: 110
YTD: 2,490

Another good week Dave and your right nothing to blink at hitting a 110 miles. Also nothing wrong with being greedy and wanting more out of August. Solid month of training now go have a better August buddy!

I saw Wicker Park fitness on Sunday and briefly considered going in to get my run out of the way, but opted for a bloody mary at The Boundary instead.

I was gonna call you out on the 9 miles to get you to 110, but it's a little different when you did it in one run instead of two! That's a freaking huge month by the way!

I just read your report from last week to help me get motivated to go knock out a run. It worked!

Schuey wrote:Another good week Dave and your right nothing to blink at hitting a 110 miles. Also nothing wrong with being greedy and wanting more out of August. Solid month of training now go have a better August buddy!

Thanks Schuey...one month at a time, right?

mul21 wrote:I saw Wicker Park fitness on Sunday and briefly considered going in to get my run out of the way, but opted for a bloody mary at The Boundary instead.

I was gonna call you out on the 9 miles to get you to 110, but it's a little different when you did it in one run instead of two! That's a freaking huge month by the way!

The Boundary is my favorite bar in my hood, and its bloody mary bar is fantastic. I've spent many post long runs recovering in that place. Sorry I wasn't able to meet up with you.

Chris M wrote:I just read your report from last week to help me get motivated to go knock out a run. It worked!

I could have just yelled at you through email.

Chicago Training, Week 8: August 1 – 7

Monday: 5 miles – 37:11, 7:26 pace. 12 miles – 1:15:13, with 6 miles – 33:08, 5:31 pace. At long last, my return to Fleet Feet tempo run Monday! Though it’s been awhile, I was pleased to learn that mostly everyone there was at the same point in their training – i.e. a solid base and just starting to reintroduce the hard miles. We agreed on 6 miles and I started the run with Matt, Brent and Todd. All three are faster than me, but I figured I’d hang with them as long as I could. The run started out slower than I anticipated with splits of 5:42, 5:36, and 5:38. Given the heat, that was fine with me. I knew, however, the real running would start as soon as we turned around. And of course it did. Our final three splits were 5:28, 5:21, and 5:18. Unlike a lot of group tempos, we stuck together the whole time, and I didn’t feel like I was about to keel over afterwards.

Tuesday: 5 miles – 37:32, 7:30 pace. 9 miles – 1:03:39, 7:04 pace. My intention was to do a semi-long run today after work. But things got hectic at the office and I was stuck there until 7:00. I quickly decided, probably within about a mile, that I would run easy today and longer tomorrow. It’s not ideal, but we working schmucks rarely have “ideal” schedules.

Wednesday: 5 miles – 36:41, 7:20 pace. 12 miles – 1:18:53, 6:34 pace. This may sound twisted, but one way that I know my endurance is nearing marathon shape is when my legs can be absolutely dead on a long run yet still hit 6:30 pace. That was the exact situation tonight. From the very start my legs were toast; there was nothing fresh or explosive about them. Thus, I was surprised – and pleased – to maintain the 6:34 average pace. So in a way, though I didn’t exactly enjoy the 12 mile run, it was satisfying. Like I said, it’s a bit of a twisted way to look at things, but it gets the job done.

Thursday: 5 miles – untimed. 14 miles – 1:24:28, with 10 miles – 56:28, 5:39 pace. Since making the 10-mile tempos the focal point of this training cycle, I’ve actually looked forward to them. Not tonight. I got home from work at 6:00 and I was so tired I crashed for a half hour nap. I thought there was at least a 50% chance I was done for the night. Instead, I woke up, downed a 5-hour energy, and dragged my ass to the gym. I told myself to warm-up, put in 2 miles at tempo pace, and only then evaluate how I felt. I wouldn’t say I felt great at that point, but I was at least awake enough to convince myself to stick with it until mile 6. Once I was at mile 6, well, then it’s just a tad over 20 minutes to finish. When all was said and end, the result was my quickest of the longer tempos yet, with splits of 5:45, 5:44, 5:43, 5:42, 5:40, 5:37, 5:37, 5:34, 5:33 and 5:29. My top end speed isn’t where it needs to be just yet, but my endurance at or around goal pace is better than ever.

Friday: 5 miles – 37:57, 7:35 pace. 7 miles – 49:36, 7:05 pace. Completely. Wrecked. That’s how I felt today. My lunchtime run was downright painful and I hated every second of the evening run. If not for the Sum Nug IPA at Shoreline Brewery in Michigan City afterwards, I may have quit the sport of running tonight.

Saturday: 10 miles – 1:08:55, 6:53 pace. 5 miles – 38:06, 7:37 pace. As I posted on Facebook, humidity is the bane of my existence. I can’t stand it. It transforms me from a stubborn high-mileage runner to a whimpering sissy. After only 8 miles at a relatively easy pace I was cooked. My legs were cramping. Cramps after an hour of easy running? That’s pathetic. The second run was slightly better, but that’s likely because I was slightly buzzed after drinking on the beach all day. Anyway, I am ready for summer to be over.

Sunday: 20 miles – 2:06:35, 6:20 pace. You want a progression? You got a progression!



In truth, this run was completely unexpected. I started it at 6:30 after a day of relaxation on the beach. Based on how my legs felt Friday and Saturday, I expected this long run to be of the “grind it out” variety. So of course, I felt like I was coming off a full taper. I didn’t go in planning to continue such a consistent progression, but I felt so strong I just rolled with it. After a quick wardrobe change after 10 miles, I picked up right where I left off and kept hammering. Even at 6:00 pace I felt comfortable, and the last 5 miles at marathon pace felt easier than they ever have that deep into a long run.

Its not often I use a training run as a barometer of fitness, but after tonight’s run, I couldn’t help but tell myself, “you’re doing something right.”

Week: 114
YTD: 2,599

That is a really impressive progression! I am really in awe of those of you that can handle 100 plus weeks. But I suppose that's part of the reason you can hit the mark on progressions like these.

Chicago Training, Week 9: August 8 – 14

Monday: 5 miles – 38:14, 7:39 pace. 8 miles – 54:49, 6:51 pace. I’m due for step-back this week, but it’s going to be a slightly odd one. While my mileage and speed work will be cut back, I have a 5k on Thursday and a very different long run planned for this weekend. We’ll get to that later. Today, I was pretty beat on both runs, which is the usual result of doing a long run on a Sunday night. You would think immediate sleep would be the best recovery; instead, I always end up stiff and sore.

Tuesday: 5 miles – 37:03, 7:25 pace. 14 miles – 1:32:25, 6:36 pace. Though I don’t have any speed work planned before Thursday’s 5k, I did want to keep the mid-week long run on schedule. I just promised myself I would keep the pace easy. I kept that promise. Mostly. There were a few times when I looked down at my pace and forced myself to slow down, not wanting to dip under 6:30. Considering how wrecked I felt yesterday, I was pleased with how quickly I recovered.

Wednesday: 5 miles – 37:47, 7:33 pace. 8 miles – 56:40, 7:05 pace. It’s nice to be occasionally reminded that no matter how hard I’m pushing myself, both in terms of volume and quality workouts, three consecutive easy days will almost always bring me back from the dead. By the time I finished my second run of the day, I felt fresh and ready to race.

Thursday: 11 miles total – Elvis is Alive 5k - 15:54, 5th place. Since I already wrote about the race, I'll add this: I'm running a 10k in two weekends, the next stop of the CARA race circuit. My 15:54 5k time predicts 33:02. A 2:30 marathon goal says I should run 31:58. I'll happily take anything in that range.

Friday: 5 miles – 38:13, 7:39 pace. 7 miles – 51:44, 7:23 pace. I don’t know whether it was the 5k or the 3 tempo miles afterward, but my hamstrings were hurting today. Not the usual, fatigue based soreness I’m used to, but the “don’t move too quickly or you might pull a muscle” variety. Since I haven’t stepped foot on a track in months, it’s been a while since I’ve had that feeling. And it didn’t make the easy mileage very fun.

Saturday: 22 miles – 2:55:56, 8:00 pace. Before you criticize my 8:00 pace, let me explain: Britt and I, as well as 13 other friends, were in Lake Geneva for the weekend. Apparently in Lake Geneva every homeowner must leave a path to allow runners and walkers to pass through their waterfront yard. It’s called the Shore Path, and since I first learned about it, I’ve wanted to run around the Lake. I even stayed away from all booze on Friday night – thereby subjecting myself to numerous running jokes – in order to be ready for the run.

I was on the Shore Path by 7:00 am in order to get it done before most of the group even crawled out of bed. I had a near perfect day with 63 degree, low-humidity conditions. Though my legs were still sore from the 5k, I immediately realized a bigger problem – calling this the “Shore Path” is a bit of a misnomer. While there was always a clear way through each yard, every single lot was different. I encountered gravel, dirt, grass, cobblestone, wood planks, slick rocks, sand…you name it. It was a mini-adventure to guess what was coming next. More troublesome was the inclusion of stairs, lots of lots of stairs. On at least two occasions I’d climb a flight of stairs, run across someone’s deck for 20 feet, then down a flight of stairs. The result: slow running.

I was thus forced to accept early on that this run was going to be more like an adventurous hike then a long run. Once I realized that, I had some fun with it, barely checking my watch, and instead focusing on the multi-million dollar mansions I was running past. Calling this run unique is an understatement. By about mile 15 my legs – mainly my ankles and knees – were trashed. I’m not used to this sort of running, which in reality, had a lot of elements of cross-training. Though slow, I knew I was getting a bad ass workout. I finished the loop at 21.6 miles and circled around the parking lot to hit 22. My goal, starting at about mile 8, was to finish in under 3:00. Without a single calorie during that span, it was a long time to be on the lake.

As I told Britt afterwards, it was a very fun and unique run; I am glad I did it. Sitting on the pontoon boat drinking beers for the next 8 hours, the lake looked a lot longer than 21.6 miles around. I was damn impressed I ran around it. That being said, I’m not sure I’d do it again.



Sunday: 5 miles – 36:15, 7:15 pace. 7 miles – 47:35, 6:48 pace. I was not as sore as I expected this morning, as you can see by the 6:48 “easy” pace in the evening. Given that this was meant as a step-back week, I was content to wrap it up feeling fresh and ready to get back after it next week.

Week: 102
YTD: 2,701

Love your write up about your 22 mile run. It's amazing how the body gets a workout from running on different surfaces and etc..

Glad to see you had some fun with it. Now if you want a true kick ass workout you should come join me on one of my trail runs out at Picnkney.

I'm not sure who it was (Greg?) that had told me about that run around the lake, but I heard it described just as you did. Tough course.



And I thought this was a stepback week? 102 miles? Damn.

So from your little map there, it appears you think you're some kind of deity, what with your running on the water and all!

Definitely sounds like an adventure!

mul21 wrote:So from your little map there, it appears you think you're some kind of deity, what with your running on the water and all!

Definitely sounds like an adventure!

What we call "against the laws of physics," Dave calls "varied terrain."

Mike MacLellan wrote:

mul21 wrote:So from your little map there, it appears you think you're some kind of deity, what with your running on the water and all!

Definitely sounds like an adventure!

What we call "against the laws of physics," Dave calls "varied terrain."

Actually, it reminds me of one of Dave's taper dreams from years ago.

Do you do most of your long runs without taking gels or something with? That's a long time on your feet with no calories - impressive! That does sound like a fun long run... Another good week, although not exactly what I would have in mind when thinking stepback .

Schuey wrote:
Glad to see you had some fun with it. Now if you want a true kick ass workout you should come join me on one of my trail runs out at Picnkney.

Did you miss the part where I said I didn't want to do it again?

Bob wrote:I'm not sure who it was (Greg?) that had told me about that run around the lake, but I heard it described just as you did. Tough course.

And I thought this was a stepback week? 102 miles? Damn.

Yeah, Greg has done it before and warned me it wasn't built for quick running. So while it was a little worse than I expected, I knew what I was getting into.

The goal is every week above 100 for the cycle with an average (hopefully) close to 110. Need some big weeks to boost the average though.

mul21 wrote:So from your little map there, it appears you think you're some kind of deity, what with your running on the water and all!

Definitely sounds like an adventure!

Yeah, apparently Garmin doesn't have the most accurate coordinates for Lake Geneva.

Mike MacLellan wrote:

What we call "against the laws of physics," Dave calls "varied terrain."

Ha! I like it.

Mark B wrote:

Actually, it reminds me of one of Dave's taper dreams from years ago.

Now that's a good memory!

John Kilpatrick wrote:Do you do most of your long runs without taking gels or something with? That's a long time on your feet with no calories - impressive! That does sound like a fun long run... Another good week, although not exactly what I would have in mind when thinking stepback .

Not intentionally. I usually prefer to have 1 or 2 gels. I just ran out about 2 weeks ago and haven't made it back to the store yet. Thankfully the pace was slow enough that I didn't need gels.

Dave-O wrote:

Schuey wrote:
Glad to see you had some fun with it. Now if you want a true kick ass workout you should come join me on one of my trail runs out at Picnkney.

Did you miss the part where I said I didn't want to do it again?

No I just thought I would be polite and invite you along so I had someone to share my pain the last 4 miles of a 20+ miler on the trails.

Schuey wrote:

No I just thought I would be polite and invite you along so I had someone to share my pain the last 4 miles of a 20+ miler on the trails.

I;ve run the Potowatomi trail as part of some of the DWD legs. Its definitely challenging. I can't even imagien running 20+ miles on that sucker.

Yep you are correct that parts of the DWD are run on that trail up on the North end of the trail. I believe you start and end DWD in the town of Hell. So I'm willing to bet that you run parts of the trail by Hi-Land Lake, Gosling Lake. I love that part of the trail up at the end.

Like you said it is pretty tough.

Dave-O wrote:

Schuey wrote:

No I just thought I would be polite and invite you along so I had someone to share my pain the last 4 miles of a 20+ miler on the trails.

I;ve run the Potowatomi trail as part of some of the DWD legs. Its definitely challenging. I can't even imagien running 20+ miles on that sucker.

Ask GregC about running more than 20 miles on it. I actually really love that piece of trail at DWD since it is runnable. I'm not really a mud loving, river running gal, but I do love a solid, medium technical trail run.

Had to chuckle when I saw you wrote being criticized for running an 8:00 pace on your run. No worries, I wouldn't criticize anyone for that pace. That being said, I'm sure you'll rest easier tonight having heard that......



Lake Geneva is an interesting area no doubt. Lots of really cool homes.