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Boston Weather

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Re: Boston Weather

Post  JohnP on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:51 pm

I forgot about salt tablets. If I am not used to taking them , will they cause any distress in my body? That's one concern for me but I agree they are appropriate.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Randy E on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:10 pm

@JohnP wrote:I forgot about salt tablets. If I am not used to taking them , will they cause any distress in my body? That's one concern for me but I agree they are appropriate.

John, I am not sure how they will affect you. It's too bad you were not able to practice with them. If you drink Gatorade, there is sodium in that. When I first took salt tablets there was no bodily reaction. Salt tablets also have other electrolytes in them which may help you. I guess all I can say is give them a shot but use at your own risk.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Randy E on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:14 pm

Here is an interesting chart:

Pace Per Mile adjustments required to maintain the same Core body Temperature
for runs over 20 mintues in duration
Pace/ Mile 6:00 6:30 7:00 7:30 8:00 8:30 9:00 9:30 10:00
Degrees F
90 6:20.3 6:52.0 7:23.6 7:55.3 8:27.0 8:58.7 9:30.4 10:02.1 10:33.9
80 6:11.1 6:42.0 7:13.0 7:43.9 8:14.8 8:45.7 9:16.7 9:47.6 10:18.5
70 6:04.8 6:35.2 7:05.6 7:36.0 8:06.4 8:36.8 9:07.2 9:37.6 10:08.0
60 6:01.1 6:31.2 7:01.3 7:31.4 8:01.5 8:31.6 9:01.7 9:31.8 10:01.9
50 5:59.9 6:29.9 6:59.9 7:29.9 7:59.9 8:29.9 8:59.9 9:29.9 9:59.9
Note: Taken from "Tinman's Heat Index and Running Performance Chart", by Tom Swartz, 2009
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  mountandog on Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:19 pm

So, given that we are going to roast I have two basic questions:

1) What alternative races are there in the near future that allow for enough recovery time and could be fast?

2) What is the best thing to wear on Monday that will keep you the coolest, looks like it will be sunny too. Shirt, no shirt? I have read about arm sleeves that actually cool your skin by 3 degrees, truth or folklore? Hat, visor or nothing? Any other ideas?
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:01 pm

I don't think salt tablets will hurt you John, and if you are planning on running in the near future to re-qualify, then commit to not trying to race on Monday. It took me a very long time to recover from the only hot marathon that I tried to race - Georgia in March, 2007 where it was in the high 80s.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  JohnP on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:11 pm

@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I don't think salt tablets will hurt you John, and if you are planning on running in the near future to re-qualify, then commit to not trying to race on Monday. It took me a very long time to recover from the only hot marathon that I tried to race - Georgia in March, 2007 where it was in the high 80s.

I just read your post in your blog, and realized that my race back in October 2011 will qualify me for 2013 Boston. So that is an awesome feeling, I'm covered for that.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  JohnP on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:13 pm

@Randy E wrote:Here is an interesting chart:

Pace Per Mile adjustments required to maintain the same Core body Temperature
for runs over 20 mintues in duration
Pace/ Mile 6:00 6:30 7:00 7:30 8:00 8:30 9:00 9:30 10:00
Degrees F
90 6:20.3 6:52.0 7:23.6 7:55.3 8:27.0 8:58.7 9:30.4 10:02.1 10:33.9
80 6:11.1 6:42.0 7:13.0 7:43.9 8:14.8 8:45.7 9:16.7 9:47.6 10:18.5
70 6:04.8 6:35.2 7:05.6 7:36.0 8:06.4 8:36.8 9:07.2 9:37.6 10:08.0
60 6:01.1 6:31.2 7:01.3 7:31.4 8:01.5 8:31.6 9:01.7 9:31.8 10:01.9
50 5:59.9 6:29.9 6:59.9 7:29.9 7:59.9 8:29.9 8:59.9 9:29.9 9:59.9
Note: Taken from "Tinman's Heat Index and Running Performance Chart", by Tom Swartz, 2009

Randy, thank you for posting this, it's an excellent thought provoker for me and gives me a starting point for how to adjust a bit. I wish I could have your ability to run in the heat, it's definitely a weakness of mine.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  JohnP on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:21 pm

@mountandog wrote:So, given that we are going to roast I have two basic questions:

1) What alternative races are there in the near future that allow for enough recovery time and could be fast?

2) What is the best thing to wear on Monday that will keep you the coolest, looks like it will be sunny too. Shirt, no shirt? I have read about arm sleeves that actually cool your skin by 3 degrees, truth or folklore? Hat, visor or nothing? Any other ideas?

2) - of course we're all different. I want to try those arm sleeves but the ones I wear in the winter really make me warm so I'm not sure how they can cool you. I definitely wear a visor in the heat, it lets heat escape. And a tank top shirt. Good luck and hope to see you there.


Last edited by JohnP on Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Schuey on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:52 pm

nevermind
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Admin on Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:10 am

@Schuey wrote:nevermind

I don't know what Shuey posted, or wanted to post, but I ran Chicago 2010 with a goal to record my first sub3. Everyone was talking about the weather and how it was going to ruin their goals. I ran 2:59:35 with pretty even 5k splits. My advice is to not let the forecast mess with you and your goal. Toe the line and race for near even 5k splits. If you have to slow down, then do it... but don't throw in the towel before you start! You have the possibility... hold on to that and strive for it... it is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not limit yourself. If you find you cannot hold pace, then back it down and look to the next challenge... just give youself a chance. You never know... Boston just might be a great race!

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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Randy E on Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:35 am

@Mr MattM wrote:
@Schuey wrote:nevermind

I don't know what Shuey posted, or wanted to post, but I ran Chicago 2010 with a goal to record my first sub3. Everyone was talking about the weather and how it was going to ruin their goals. I ran 2:59:35 with pretty even 5k splits. My advice is to not let the forecast mess with you and your goal. Toe the line and race for near even 5k splits. If you have to slow down, then do it... but don't throw in the towel before you start! You have the possibility... hold on to that and strive for it... it is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not limit yourself. If you find you cannot hold pace, then back it down and look to the next challenge... just give youself a chance. You never know... Boston just might be a great race!

Well said, Matt. I agree 100%. As our friend Tony Horton would say, "do your best and forget the rest." It's not like we are all trying to qualify for the Olympics.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:36 am

I just was trying to point out that if you have a time to re-qualify, then don't beat yourself up. I wish I ran better in the heat myself, and my current plan is to hold back to a 4 hr marathon pace for the first half and then see what happens. I've trained well, but I want to be smart as well.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  mul21 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:28 am

@Mr MattM wrote:
@Schuey wrote:nevermind

I don't know what Shuey posted, or wanted to post, but I ran Chicago 2010 with a goal to record my first sub3. Everyone was talking about the weather and how it was going to ruin their goals. I ran 2:59:35 with pretty even 5k splits. My advice is to not let the forecast mess with you and your goal. Toe the line and race for near even 5k splits. If you have to slow down, then do it... but don't throw in the towel before you start! You have the possibility... hold on to that and strive for it... it is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not limit yourself. If you find you cannot hold pace, then back it down and look to the next challenge... just give youself a chance. You never know... Boston just might be a great race!

That's all well and good for you Matt, but I took a very similar strategy to you in the exact same race and had a massive crash and burn in the last 10K because of the heat and missed my goal by almost 7 minutes. I have no doubt I was in shape to hit my goal, but the heat just zapped me. I think people are going to have to take into account how they generally react to the heat and adjust or not adjust from there.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  GregC on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:17 am

Yeah, no offense Matt, but I think it's pretty bad advice to say to not let the heat mess with you and your goal. The reality of the race is that the heat is going to affect everyone's race. A 10AM start in Boston is a lot different than a 7AM start at Chicago. There's also the fact that most runners have trained through cold winters and have had no chance to acclimate to the forecasted mid 80 degree weather. To not account for that heat is setting you up for a pretty miserable Boston experience in my opinion.

My advice at this point would be make your goal at Boston to race your best marathon. Go in with a smart conservative plan and execute it. That may not result in your fastest marathon ever, but it can be your best executed marathon, which is something that you'll always remember. There are going to be a lot of runners out there that can be passed in the last 10 miles if you start extra conservatively.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  fostever on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:27 am

sunny Let's see what happens. This is the beauty of life, the unknown keeps things interesting. If we knew everything would turn out perfect in life, what's the point? One thing is this weather should help us back off early which is essential on this course. Let's rock it at a conservative pace, hydrate well, and see what happens!sunny
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Schuey on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:34 am

FIrst off as all know by looking on line the forecast for Monday is looking pretty real. Last night before going to bed Lisa and I watched the local Boston news and they could not stop stressing their concern for Monday. As of now they are talking about new record highs of 88 with the chance of some areas hitting 90.


@Mr MattM wrote:
@Schuey wrote:nevermind

I don't know what Shuey posted, or wanted to post, but I ran Chicago 2010 with a goal to record my first sub3. Everyone was talking about the weather and how it was going to ruin their goals. I ran 2:59:35 with pretty even 5k splits. My advice is to not let the forecast mess with you and your goal. Toe the line and race for near even 5k splits. If you have to slow down, then do it... but don't throw in the towel before you start! You have the possibility... hold on to that and strive for it... it is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not limit yourself. If you find you cannot hold pace, then back it down and look to the next challenge... just give youself a chance. You never know... Boston just might be a great race!

Matt my post was along the lines to what you were saying but then realized that everyone is different and that the forecast for Boston is different then Chicago 2010. What makes it different is that most people had a whole summer to run in hot temps which does help one handle the heat better. Like you I ran a good race in Chicago.

Also on a different note I wanted to caution people about just taking salt tablets there is a lot of research out there that while they are good to take they can also do a lot of harm. Electorlyte replenishment is i not just sodium and salt replenishment. Calcium, magnesium, potassium are a big factor also.

" Can't I just use salt tablets?

Salt tablets are an unacceptable choice for electrolyte replenishment for two reasons:
1. They provide only two of the electrolytes your body requires - sodium and chloride.
2. They can oversupply sodium, thereby overwhelming the body’s complex mechanism for regulating sodium.

Far too many athletes have suffered needlessly with swollen hands and feet from water retention due to ingestion of salt tablets or electrolyte products too high in sodium during prolonged exercise in the heat. The body has very effective mechanisms to regulate and recirculate sodium from body stores. Excess sodium consumption interferes with or neutralizes these complex mechanisms. Sweat generates large sodium losses, which is monitored closely through hormonal receptors throughout the body. However, rapid sodium replacement neutralizes the system, allowing water intake to dilute the sodium content. High-sodium electrolyte supplementation contravenes the natural physiological control of serum electrolytes, and once the body detects an increase in sodium from exogenous sources (i.e., food, salt tablets, or products too high in sodium), the hormone aldosterone signals the kidneys to stop filtering and recirculating sodium. Instead, the kidneys will excrete sodium; another hormone, vasopressin, will redominate and cause fluid retention. While ingesting large amounts of sodium may temporarily resolve a sodium deficiency, doing so substantially increases the risk of a number of problems, including increased fluid storage and thus swelling, or edema, in the distal extremities, elevated blood pressure, and increased rate of sodium excretion. All of these inhibit performance. If you've ever finished a workout or race with swollen hands, wrists, feet, or ankles, or if you have experienced puffiness under your eyes and around your cheeks, chances are your sodium/salt intake was too high.
The truth is that the human body needs only a minute amount of sodium to function normally. We require a mere 500 mg of sodium each day; athletes maybe 2,000 mg, which is easily supplied by natural, unprocessed foods. However, the average American consumes approximately 6,000-8,000 mg per day, well above the upper end recommended dose of 2,300 - 2,400 mg/day.* (See asterik on page 44) The average athlete stores at least 8,000 mg of dietary sodium in tissues and has these stores available during exercise. In other words, you already have a vast reservoir of sodium available in your body from your diet, ready to serve you during exercise. In addition, your body has a highly complex and efficient way of monitoring and recirculating sodium back into the blood, which it does to maintain homeostasis. You do need to replenish sodium during exercise, but you must do so with amounts that cooperate with, and do not override, these complex body mechanisms."

I really wasn't sure if I wanted to post the above because it is not my place to tell people what to do or what to take during a race. So take it how you will. I have found products to take that are just more balanced. So please don't take the above personally.


@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I just was trying to point out that if you have a time to re-qualify, then don't beat yourself up. I wish I ran better in the heat myself, and my current plan is to hold back to a 4 hr marathon pace for the first half and then see what happens. I've trained well, but I want to be smart as well.

I agree with you Michele when I ran with Chris in the fall I got a BQ by 2 mins since they moved the 40 year old time down. Which in my mind will be more then enough to get me in next year. But also I'm running Bayshore at the end of May which also gives me a chance to to run 3:10, 3:05 or 3:00 which would allow me to sign up earlier. I think that your advice is for good because for people that have not run this course and even for us you have run it this course can crush you on a good weather day to run.

Plus don't forget that the sure normally a tailwind is a great thing to run in but go and run with a tailwind on a warm day and tell how it feels running with the wind at your back and then in your face. When the wind is in your face it feels good do to a cool experience do to the wind blowing the heat away from you. Run with that same wind at your back and it feels like you are running in a personal sun a.

For me this years Boston has been all about fun and even more so now. I don't care if it takes me 4 hours to finish because to me due to it not being a goal race. For those that this race is a GOAL race I guess I would say if you feel like going for it go for it for as long as you can if you have to slow or stop then do so. Just remember no RACE or MARATHON is worth one's future health!

[quote="mul21"]
@Mr MattM wrote:
@Schuey wrote:nevermind

That's all well and good for you Matt, but I took a very similar strategy to you in the exact same race and had a massive crash and burn in the last 10K because of the heat and missed my goal by almost 7 minutes. I have no doubt I was in shape to hit my goal, but the heat just zapped me. I think people are going to have to take into account how they generally react to the heat and adjust or not adjust from there.


Good point Jim. Everyone is going to have to decided for themselves on how hard and how much risk they want to take on Monday.

Again for me this year the race was about fun so the decision is easy not taking the risk. Come this fall that decision will be different. And if the risk I take doesn't allow me to run Boston next year that's ok because it will be here the following year and the year after that.

Good luck everyone on Monday if I don't see you tonight or Sunday or a the AV on Monday.


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Re: Boston Weather

Post  GregC on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:48 am

@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I know that it is way too early to start obsessing (or is it?), but today on our run (with the ATC women and men), the consensus is that Boston will be warm - warmer than the latest warm year (04?) - so everyone need be prepared. What say you all???

I also think we should give credit to the fortune tellers in the ATC running club for seeing this coming almost a month ago....I'm impressed.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Schuey on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:53 am

@GregC wrote:
@Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I know that it is way too early to start obsessing (or is it?), but today on our run (with the ATC women and men), the consensus is that Boston will be warm - warmer than the latest warm year (04?) - so everyone need be prepared. What say you all???

I also think we should give credit to the fortune tellers in the ATC running club for seeing this coming almost a month ago....I'm impressed.

Yep I agree Greg!

So Greg will Lisa and I be graced to see you and Kelly today?
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  GregC on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:21 am

@Schuey wrote:

Yep I agree Greg!

So Greg will Lisa and I be graced to see you and Kelly today?

Not today. We get in tomorrow.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Mike MacLellan on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:06 pm

So... anyone considering deferring? If I was local, I probably would. Seeing as I will definitely not be able to afford this trip next year... Nope.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Schuey on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:09 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:So... anyone considering deferring? If I was local, I probably would. Seeing as I will definitely not be able to afford this trip next year... Nope.


I was thinking about it but my plan as of now and like it has been from the start to just have a good time. If the weather is as hot as they are saying it will be I'm tossing out all time goals and just going to run by feel and effort and live to fight and run a PR on a different day. Hell I wasn't going to even come close to run a PR this year even if it was great weather.
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  GregC on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:13 pm

Wow...the latest email from the BAA is a little sobering. I think they're being overly cautious, but it still is an eye opener...

We are looking closely at the current weather situation which is projected to be quite warm. The B.A.A. is closely monitoring this situation for for race day decisions. If the temperatures reach certain levels, running will put even the most fit athletes at risk for heat injury.

We are now making the recommendation that if you are not highly fit or if you have any underlying medical conditions (for example-cardiac disease, pulmonary disease or any of a number of medical problems), you should NOT run this race.

Inexperienced marathoners should not run.

Those who have only trained in a cooler climate and who may not be acclimated (for at least the last 10 days) to warm weather running conditions should also consider not running.

For those very fit athletes who decide to run, you should take significant precautions:

Run at a slower pace and maintain hydration.
You should frequently take breaks by walking instead of running.

This will not be a day to run a personal best. If you choose to run, run safely above all else. Speed can kill.

Heat stroke is a serious issue and is related to intensity of running as well as the heat and humidity.

Good hydration is important but over hydration can also be a problem. Thirst is an indication that you are under-hydrated. You should maintain hydration levels slightly greater than your hydration program in your training, but not excessively so.

Even the fittest athletes, that take precautions can still suffer serious heat illness. Recognizing symptoms of heat illness in yourself and others is critical , this may include headaches, dizziness, confusion, fatigue, nausea and vomiting. If you experience any of these, stop running immediately and if symptoms persist seek medical attention.

Boston Marathon Co-Medical Directors,
Dr. Pierre d'Hemecourt and Dr. Sophia Dyer
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Martin VW on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:49 pm

@Mike MacLellan wrote:So... anyone considering deferring? If I was local, I probably would. Seeing as I will definitely not be able to afford this trip next year... Nope.

Did the BAA open up a deferral option becaue of the weather? I may have missed it, but they adopted a "No deferral, no exceptions" stance when they put in the new registration rules.

I'm still going in with the mindset that my "C" goal is still achievable, if I execute my strategy well. If it doesn't play out that way, oh well. I still don't want to/realistically can't go through another marathon cycle, especially since there's no assurance that it will be better conditions on the other end of it.

And in Matt's defense (did I just say that?) I took his post to mean to not just throw in the towel yet. His performance in Chicago, and Schuey's performance in multiple Chicagos, is very much front-of-mind for me, and keeping me hopeful that I can still turn in a solid performance, if I'm smart and adapt my race strategy correctly.


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Re: Boston Weather

Post  GregC on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:51 pm

@Martin VW wrote:

Did the BAA open up a deferral option becaue of the weather? I may have missed it, but they adopted a "No deferral, no exceptions" stance when they put in the new registration rules.

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/blog/2012/04/baa_to_allow_runners_to_defer.html
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Re: Boston Weather

Post  Martin VW on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:57 pm

[quote="GregC"]
@Martin VW wrote:

Did the BAA open up a deferral option becaue of the weather? I may have missed it, but they adopted a "No deferral, no exceptions" stance when they put in the new registration rules.

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/blog/2012/04/baa_to_allow_runners_to_defer.html[/quote]

Thanks, Greg. I got the e-mail you posted but nothing on this one. Guess the're making it available but not "pushing it."

Smart move. Limits their liability.
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